And then there's Unity. More assets created by someone else. Just look in the Unity Asset Store. Portlarium didn't even try and hide the fact that many of the models used in the game were taken from there without hardly a modification. Look at the trees in the SotA store and then look at the trees in the Unity Store. Some are identical.
Knowing a tree is part of an asset pack isn't going to ruin a game for me; what will is poorly thought out game mechanics and a pay to win store.
Isn't the whole point of the Unity Asset Store to get access to a large number of pre-rendered assets so you don't have to reinvent the wheel? Why pay artists to spend months rendering common background objects which most people give no more than a passing glance?
That's not the point.
Other developers create their own assets. Some create their own game engines. Portalarium did none of that. Much of that 10 million was freed up by using Unity, buying assets, and allowing their community to create assets for them.
I think it would be really interesting to see how much $$$ PER EMPLOYEE, the game costs in comparison to other games. I think it would be an eye opener. In fact, I think it would be interesting to see for any game calling themselves "indie". I have a sneaking suspicion that indie developers are making a shit ton of money while delivering a shit ton of nothing. Best kept secret for wealth building in the gaming industry?
Where is the 10 million + telethon spoils + POT purchases ($900+) + store purchases going? Certainly not into building a quality game, that's for sure.
IMO, a LOT of people bought a bottle of snake oil...they just haven't figured it out yet.
dude just lookin at the bears wolves skeletons and stuff. i can see them on unity store for like 15-25 bucks each lol.
My experience in sota has been very good. I had not pledged until the game became persistent.
I'm not sure why anyone is expecting and judging it as though it is a finished product. It isn't, and should only be looked at as a work underway. It is wonderfully rich, and leaves one with a sense of accomplishment, quite unlike other MMOs IMO.
I am an old school gamer and appreciate how many of the systems have been developed and implemented.
It has been a very long time since I have played a game that has me captivated.
The graphics are dated. The combat action is not the best in any sense of the term. However, neither of these concerns outweigh the fact that I find it's strengths greatly overshadow look and action. Besides, I am fully aware these are likely not yet complete.
It is an old school product that has not yet been impacted by the need to make everything simple for the player base. I believe there is a market for those looking for depth over ease, and will resonate with these players.
I'm having a blast, as are 3 of my co-workers.
Same here, it has tons of old school elements and they are only adding more.
Kinda funny how these haters have to drive their hate deeper and deeper, almost as if they hate Richard Garriott personally or work for EA or something *blushes*.
I really don't care, haters gonna be haters, I love the game myself and feel that Garriott and his team have done a helluva job creating a very unique and fun experience, it's a world I can get lost in, something I can say about no other MMO out there atm.
To me this is essentially Morrowind online, like you know, the "real" Morrowind not the POS that Zenimax made.
This review seems to me a bit too negative. I am a backer and have been following this project it for many years, I have seen it evolving from almost nothing up to now. Sure it still need a lot of work, polishing and debugging. Devs are closing the gap fast on that.
SotA is not a clone of some MMO out there, it has new elements and a much improved deep as a world. E.g. the dye system, we can take a dress and have over a hundred combinations of colors.
Graphics are OK, we don't want top graphics on an online game! It will cause lag. Some players ever reduce the quality to minimum to ensure faster interaction. The game use, instead, a rich way to do lightning, generating an endless of beautiful views, as the light changes (at night, storms, fog...).
Quests, there are a lot of them. Just no one push them on you, nor are graphic artifacts showing it up. We have to talk to the NPCs to get them. And find our way... we have to actually solve them, instead of be driven by the game. That are the kind of quests I like more, a bit hard to do.
As for the combat system, it is a good idea not yet fully polished; it allows to experience many ways to fight, tailoring to your character skills. It's not just a change in graphics, it feels different.
The game is just bad, in every aspect. We're in 2016, not in 2004. So yeah the graphics NEEDS to be better and the gameplay? omg.. this is horrible. 200$ for this crap..
I'm a 45 dollar pledger. Shroud will not be the best graphic or best sound game, they never were competing on that level, because when you compete on graphics and sound you have to keep upgrading and it takes away from the storyline.
The haters posting are just that haters, and they will always hate everything that isn't the newest or the best, and always jump from game to game, never enjoying anything, impossible to please. So yea I am glad Shroud is not playing to that crowd.
I keep seeing where is the money, well having been an alpha tester, and beta tester and seen games far worst in development, I have a theory ( no inside information just a theory) most Sr level game designers make upwards of 200k a year , at 15 developpers at 100k a year that would = 1.5 mil just for salaries, (I have a feeling that the devs at Portalarium are not making that much) I believe a lot of the Sr levels have agreed to work for Jr level or lower because they love this game. However even at lower salaries, when you factor in insurance, taxes, rent, computers etc for each employee 1.5mil a year is still very very low for any type of company these days espeichally one that has computer techs of any sorts.
We know that they have money away for the next 3 years my math says with 10 mil they could at 1.5 mil a year work for aprox 6 1/2 years (3 years of that 6 already being used).
I stepped away from shroud for 6 months and the work done in that time was amazing. Unity enabled the team to take at least 2 years off of developing an engine, combined with the fact they are literly building this games while players are playing it ( a very difficult feat) along with the lack of down time and crashes that in itself is amazing. I think because it is Starr Long and Richard Garriott game it is being treated like Portaliruim is some huge company, when it is not.
I do belive (tho I have no proof) that Richard Garriott has invested far more money into this project then you think. A lot of players bashing this game I think never ever played a game from Alpha onwards.
However a game at this stage of development getting a 5 from MMORPG is amazing, it means they are already halfway to making a 10 game, and halfway thru development that isn't to shabby.
If your on the fence, I say don't play Shroud yet. IF you want Shroud to be a better game the more people and the more opionons can only help.
To the Whales thank you for putting your money and faith in the game , to those that left I think your wrong but truly only time will tell.
Oh as for the land rush *eh* I don't care either way, I looked at it more of a thank you to those that have played with all the bugs the testing, the chaos. However I see the other side too.
This is a perfect example of why crowdfunding sucks for MMORPG's. This game is a joke just like Garriots last game, Tabula Rasa. At least he used NCSofts money on that train wreck. The only good thing is that these constant fails should put this crowdfunding trend down as far as MMORPG's go. None of them have been worth a damn. These same old developers keep showing up basically panhandling on the internet in order to keep themselves employed. If anyone had the money to invest in their own game it would be this silver spoon sucking space cadet, but why should he when he can throw other peoples money down the drain? This is the same guy that bought two pieces of space junk on mars for over 100k at an auction. This is the guy people are giving money to. Stop being suckers and this will end.
This is a perfect example of why crowdfunding sucks for MMORPG's. This game is a joke just like Garriots last game, Tabula Rasa. At least he used NCSofts money on that train wreck. The only good thing is that these constant fails should put this crowdfunding trend down as far as MMORPG's go. None of them have been worth a damn. These same old developers keep showing up basically panhandling on the internet in order to keep themselves employed. If anyone had the money to invest in their own game it would be this silver spoon sucking space cadet, but why should he when he can throw other peoples money down the drain? This is the same guy that bought two pieces of space junk on mars for over 100k at an auction. This is the guy people are giving money to. Stop being suckers and this will end.
what? You didn't hear? They plan on launching a kickstarter for episode 2!
I'm sure they will add such features as things left out of the final for episode one that were promised, but trust them this time.
This is a perfect example of why crowdfunding sucks for MMORPG's. This game is a joke just like Garriots last game, Tabula Rasa. At least he used NCSofts money on that train wreck. The only good thing is that these constant fails should put this crowdfunding trend down as far as MMORPG's go. None of them have been worth a damn. These same old developers keep showing up basically panhandling on the internet in order to keep themselves employed. If anyone had the money to invest in their own game it would be this silver spoon sucking space cadet, but why should he when he can throw other peoples money down the drain? This is the same guy that bought two pieces of space junk on mars for over 100k at an auction. This is the guy people are giving money to. Stop being suckers and this will end.
what? You didn't hear? They plan on launching a kickstarter for episode 2!
I'm sure they will add such features as things left out of the final for episode one that were promised, but trust them this time.
is there a link to that?
sorry if it was sarcasm... not sure what to believe
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This is a perfect example of why crowdfunding sucks for MMORPG's. This game is a joke just like Garriots last game, Tabula Rasa. At least he used NCSofts money on that train wreck. The only good thing is that these constant fails should put this crowdfunding trend down as far as MMORPG's go. None of them have been worth a damn. These same old developers keep showing up basically panhandling on the internet in order to keep themselves employed. If anyone had the money to invest in their own game it would be this silver spoon sucking space cadet, but why should he when he can throw other peoples money down the drain? This is the same guy that bought two pieces of space junk on mars for over 100k at an auction. This is the guy people are giving money to. Stop being suckers and this will end.
what? You didn't hear? They plan on launching a kickstarter for episode 2!
I'm sure they will add such features as things left out of the final for episode one that were promised, but trust them this time.
is there a link to that?
sorry if it was sarcasm... not sure what to believe
Yes. actually there is, not sarcasm you can't make this up:
When is EP2 coming out? STARR: Formula = After Commercial Launch of Ep 1 + Successful Kickstarter for Ep 2 + 12 Months + Unknown amount of time to respond to feedback
Performance is unplayably bad in big cities its almost unbelievable considering how basic and bland these towns look. Its sad when you look at a game like Assassins Creed or Dying Light that can pull off almost endless city scapes with impossible amounts of high rez detail and complex shading shadows and lighting at 80 Plus frames per second.
I simply dont understand why they chose the Unity engine, its quite possibly the worst possible choice for a game with any kind of expanse, unless you have REALLY good coders who can rewrite most of their rendering engine.
Im kind of terrified for Pantheon for choosing this engine we will just have to wait and see with them.
Unity is fine for single player games, even ok for multiplayer games.
But mmorpg - ugh just no, the scalability is just not there, unity was not designed for massively multiplayer at all.
Pantheon says Hi
I say hi to Pantheon and I am rooting for them, Gloria Victus has managed to get a mediocre looking game running decently online with Unity at its core, but my god it took them a mountain of infrastructure rework to make that happen.
STOP CALLING IT A SANDBOX GRR!!!!!!!! This is in no way shape or form a bloody sandbox game. It is a box that contains numerous smaller scenes (AKA, smaller boxes) that contain a never ending plethora of loading screens...erma ferkn gerd the never ever ever ending bloody loading screens. it's like play 5 min...loading screen...leave town...loading screen...exit overview map travel...loading screen. So stop calling it a bloody sandbox FFS!
/endragefilledrant :P
P.S. game is a total P.O.S. You take the cash and keep taking the cash you are in a RELEASED STATE! NO EXCEPTIONS!
More like a shadow box.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Pay Once to Play: No subscription fees. Each episode (released approximately annually) is a one time fee and everything in the game can be purchased with in game gold that can be earned (except for some exclusive backer rewards).
No one is forcing you to pay right now when it isn't done.
Just thought I'd pop in and remind people of just how dishonest the text quoted by this poster is; Since that post was made, they have added a Premium Currency on top too, and tied basic gameplay like item repairs too it.
But even at the time, it wasn't true; You can only buy all the items in offline mode, at least that's the plan eventually, it's not in game yet. But if you play online, or with friends, anything in the Add On Store is exclusive and will remain so. They will not unlock the ability to pay game gold for it there. This includes gameplay affecting items like Player Owned Towns (Starting at $900) and even the Lot Deeds which unlock normal housing which are still, near 5 months later, Add On Store only unless you win the monthly lottery. Which can be gamed by, yes you guessed it, Real Money Trading for in game gold.
Pay Once to Play: No subscription fees. Each episode (released approximately annually) is a one time fee and everything in the game can be purchased with in game gold that can be earned (except for some exclusive backer rewards).
No one is forcing you to pay right now when it isn't done.
Just thought I'd pop in and remind people of just how dishonest the text quoted by this poster is; Since that post was made, they have added a Premium Currency on top too, and tied basic gameplay like item repairs too it.
But even at the time, it wasn't true; You can only buy all the items in offline mode, at least that's the plan eventually, it's not in game yet. But if you play online, or with friends, anything in the Add On Store is exclusive and will remain so. They will not unlock the ability to pay game gold for it there. This includes gameplay affecting items like Player Owned Towns (Starting at $900) and even the Lot Deeds which unlock normal housing which are still, near 5 months later, Add On Store only unless you win the monthly lottery. Which can be gamed by, yes you guessed it, Real Money Trading for in game gold.
Portalarium takes the word obfuscation very seriously.
If you want an eye-opener, grab their release notes and delete any entries that have to do with fixing an item you must purchase in the store. Then see what's left over they're actually fixing in the core game.
It was easy to predict these crowd-sourced MMO projects targeting the 'old school' nostalgia crowd would have a lot of flaws in comparison to newer MMOs on the market. What I don't understand is why so many are being developed like time stopped in 2006 while ignoring newer MMO improvements (UI, graphics, player tutorials, controls, etc.)
I think it's easier and cheaper for them to do old school.
No global auction house, can only sale up to ten items at a time 0_o
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Yep. I was one of the first 1,000 backers so far. I download and play the game every 6 months or so, and every single time, the game is so clunky, i can't really even get a few steps before I uninstall.
It was easy to predict these crowd-sourced MMO projects targeting the 'old school' nostalgia crowd would have a lot of flaws in comparison to newer MMOs on the market. What I don't understand is why so many are being developed like time stopped in 2006 while ignoring newer MMO improvements (UI, graphics, player tutorials, controls, etc.)
Gotta cash in on that nostalgia wave while it's going.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I unfortunately backed this game, but fortunately only for only $65--about the cost of an average game. I played UO for 14 years and truly wanted to love this game. I have tried several times to play it and get into it, but each time I am left thinking WTF--this game is terrible! I feel sorry for people that invested hundreds or even thousands of dollars into this game.
Oh and I played the game yesterday--still boring as ever!
My experience in sota has been very good. I had not pledged until the game became persistent.
I'm not sure why anyone is expecting and judging it as though it is a finished product. It isn't, and should only be looked at as a work underway. It is wonderfully rich, and leaves one with a sense of accomplishment, quite unlike other MMOs IMO.
I am an old school gamer and appreciate how many of the systems have been developed and implemented.
It has been a very long time since I have played a game that has me captivated.
The graphics are dated. The combat action is not the best in any sense of the term. However, neither of these concerns outweigh the fact that I find it's strengths greatly overshadow look and action. Besides, I am fully aware these are likely not yet complete.
It is an old school product that has not yet been impacted by the need to make everything simple for the player base. I believe there is a market for those looking for depth over ease, and will resonate with these players.
I'm having a blast, as are 3 of my co-workers.
Same here, it has tons of old school elements and they are only adding more.
Kinda funny how these haters have to drive their hate deeper and deeper, almost as if they hate Richard Garriott personally or work for EA or something *blushes*.
I really don't care, haters gonna be haters, I love the game myself and feel that Garriott and his team have done a helluva job creating a very unique and fun experience, it's a world I can get lost in, something I can say about no other MMO out there atm.
To me this is essentially Morrowind online, like you know, the "real" Morrowind not the POS that Zenimax made.
First off the word is critics, not haters. Expand your vocabulary some. Secondly, as longtime UO player. I still like the old systems and this game is a horrible implementation of such. Oh and ESO is 100 times the game this one is. If this is not Richard's worst game, I don't want to know what the worst is.
Shroud of confusion fits well my feeling towards this game.
Leaving aside all the unfinished content and the several bugs, I just don't get what is supposed to be.
I just don't care about the settings, the story, the world.
It's really boring.
One can afford to spend 20M to take a trip into space, but needs crowdfunding to mak a cheap ridiculously priced cash shop Indie game.
I don't know about you guys, but it tells me pretty much everything I need to know.
Spending half his fortune (and having the economy then crash) to go into space didn't make sense to me, but hey, that's not confined to Garriott's behavior.
Curt Schilling discovered that investing far more of his own money doesn't always make things work.
There are tons of 'indie' developers who are just now discovering that it's not easy to make a cheap MMO.
First the problem is Indie developers. They are Great at writing lines of code but totally garbage at debugging, error handling and tuning any code. For example I worked with a India development company for I will not name that had problems with Java Garbage collection and understanding how it works and how to implement this. Now I am not a Programmer, I am a Sr. Windows Engineer who has worked very closely with hundreds of developers. I took this Java Program to one of our US Developers and in 2 weeks he had the JAva Garbage Collection working without a problem.
Indie developers like I say are great at writing lines of code but not at making that code quality. I have had countless run ins with people like this.
The reason why we went to Indie developers? Well when you can pay for a team of 10 to 15 developers for $100k to $200k for the year where as the same developer group in the US cost $1 Million to $2 Million. So when there is a LACK OF FUNDS we go to with the cheap solution.
You can thank the US regulations for that and tax code. US Life Style too. But when you have to sometimes pay an employee payroll tax 5 or 6 times there is a problem. For example, You match as an employer the Employees Federal, State and Local taxes, Plus Soc Sec and Medicare the Dollars really add up fast. This is why we went Indie but Indie and Cheap are not going to make you quality MMO or games for that matter. Yep It might run ok and look like a 20 year old game while at it.
Overseas outsourcing isn't the same as indie. I think painting indie developers with such a broad stroke because you bought cheap labor and got burnt on it isn't fair. I get what you're saying but broad strokes are broad.
Blaming US tax code and regulations for companies not being able to get slave wages for work like progamming is a bit much as well.
LOL I think he's confused, indie and India are two different things. There are some decent developers and programmers in India who do great work, and some terrible ones who are just as lazy as devs in the west, not any different than any other country to be honest. Most work back and forth between here and India, and the ones worth their weight or paid well.
It certainly should be reviewed now, after final wipe had occurred with a follow up review for the proper launch. That's the only way I can see the issue of putting MMOs into Ever Early Access can be resolved.
I will be waiting until it launches for real and see what is said about it then.
Comments
"Immersion breaking glyph system & combat lacks dynamics"
This is their biggest killer but they wont see it even tho reveiws keep sayin it
Kinda funny how these haters have to drive their hate deeper and deeper, almost as if they hate Richard Garriott personally or work for EA or something *blushes*.
I really don't care, haters gonna be haters, I love the game myself and feel that Garriott and his team have done a helluva job creating a very unique and fun experience, it's a world I can get lost in, something I can say about no other MMO out there atm.
To me this is essentially Morrowind online, like you know, the "real" Morrowind not the POS that Zenimax made.
SotA is not a clone of some MMO out there, it has new elements and a much improved deep as a world. E.g. the dye system, we can take a dress and have over a hundred combinations of colors.
Graphics are OK, we don't want top graphics on an online game! It will cause lag. Some players ever reduce the quality to minimum to ensure faster interaction. The game use, instead, a rich way to do lightning, generating an endless of beautiful views, as the light changes (at night, storms, fog...).
Quests, there are a lot of them. Just no one push them on you, nor are graphic artifacts showing it up. We have to talk to the NPCs to get them. And find our way... we have to actually solve them, instead of be driven by the game. That are the kind of quests I like more, a bit hard to do.
As for the combat system, it is a good idea not yet fully polished; it allows to experience many ways to fight, tailoring to your character skills. It's not just a change in graphics, it feels different.
The game is just bad, in every aspect. We're in 2016, not in 2004. So yeah the graphics NEEDS to be better and the gameplay? omg.. this is horrible. 200$ for this crap..
"It's alpha"
"It's not a finished game"
"They have a lot of things to flesh out"
"It's early access"
It's still in development"
and now...
"Not fully polished"
When will it be ready...ah, yes...
Soon™
Too busy getting drunk during telethons and trolling other websites attacking people who don't like the game as "misinforming".
~~ postlarval ~~
The haters posting are just that haters, and they will always hate everything that isn't the newest or the best, and always jump from game to game, never enjoying anything, impossible to please. So yea I am glad Shroud is not playing to that crowd.
I keep seeing where is the money, well having been an alpha tester, and beta tester and seen games far worst in development, I have a theory ( no inside information just a theory) most Sr level game designers make upwards of 200k a year , at 15 developpers at 100k a year that would = 1.5 mil just for salaries, (I have a feeling that the devs at Portalarium are not making that much) I believe a lot of the Sr levels have agreed to work for Jr level or lower because they love this game. However even at lower salaries, when you factor in insurance, taxes, rent, computers etc for each employee 1.5mil a year is still very very low for any type of company these days espeichally one that has computer techs of any sorts.
We know that they have money away for the next 3 years my math says with 10 mil they could at 1.5 mil a year work for aprox 6 1/2 years (3 years of that 6 already being used).
I stepped away from shroud for 6 months and the work done in that time was amazing. Unity enabled the team to take at least 2 years off of developing an engine, combined with the fact they are literly building this games while players are playing it ( a very difficult feat) along with the lack of down time and crashes that in itself is amazing. I think because it is Starr Long and Richard Garriott game it is being treated like Portaliruim is some huge company, when it is not.
I do belive (tho I have no proof) that Richard Garriott has invested far more money into this project then you think. A lot of players bashing this game I think never ever played a game from Alpha onwards.
However a game at this stage of development getting a 5 from MMORPG is amazing, it means they are already halfway to making a 10 game, and halfway thru development that isn't to shabby.
If your on the fence, I say don't play Shroud yet. IF you want Shroud to be a better game the more people and the more opionons can only help.
To the Whales thank you for putting your money and faith in the game , to those that left I think your wrong but truly only time will tell.
Oh as for the land rush *eh* I don't care either way, I looked at it more of a thank you to those that have played with all the bugs the testing, the chaos. However I see the other side too.
MHO
Paradoxia
what? You didn't hear? They plan on launching a kickstarter for episode 2!
I'm sure they will add such features as things left out of the final for episode one that were promised, but trust them this time.
sorry if it was sarcasm... not sure what to believe
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/release-33-post-mortem-q-a-those-that-got-missed.62019/
Tahru
I haven't seen anyone else do it yet.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
But even at the time, it wasn't true; You can only buy all the items in offline mode, at least that's the plan eventually, it's not in game yet. But if you play online, or with friends, anything in the Add On Store is exclusive and will remain so. They will not unlock the ability to pay game gold for it there. This includes gameplay affecting items like Player Owned Towns (Starting at $900) and even the Lot Deeds which unlock normal housing which are still, near 5 months later, Add On Store only unless you win the monthly lottery. Which can be gamed by, yes you guessed it, Real Money Trading for in game gold.
If you want an eye-opener, grab their release notes and delete any entries that have to do with fixing an item you must purchase in the store. Then see what's left over they're actually fixing in the core game.
~~ postlarval ~~
I think it's easier and cheaper for them to do old school. No global auction house, can only sale up to ten items at a time 0_o
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
No game in 2017 should be clunky. No game.
Say it with me: fluid movement=immersion.
Shadowlord Sage
CmdrAkbar
Napa Valley, UO, 1997.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Oh and I played the game yesterday--still boring as ever!
Leaving aside all the unfinished content and the several bugs, I just don't get what is supposed to be.
I just don't care about the settings, the story, the world.
It's really boring.
Spot on review in my opinion.
LOL I think he's confused, indie and India are two different things. There are some decent developers and programmers in India who do great work, and some terrible ones who are just as lazy as devs in the west, not any different than any other country to be honest. Most work back and forth between here and India, and the ones worth their weight or paid well.
I will be waiting until it launches for real and see what is said about it then.