Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

More Greedmonger refund drama

13

Comments

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    Kyleran said:
    I think I should start a non-scam kickstarter...

    The title would be "Found for Jean-Luc Picard's Retirement"

    I would promise nothing. No fancy new item, no amazing game, nothing. Backers just found me.

    If eventually we reach $500.000, I would eventually send a dedicated photo of my humble self to all backers. And at $1.000.000 they will all get a copy of the great Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing".

    Sounds like a plan.

    Hey, I hear spaceships sell very well.

    At $1.5M you could send backers a framed photo of the Enterprise,  your choice of which model of course. 

    ;)





    If you don't sell small vials of your own blood, you are just not living the dream Jean-Luc. :)
    MrMelGibson
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,014
    I keep hoping that someday gamers learn not to just throw money blindly at every kickstarter project, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
    Kyleran
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    I keep hoping that someday gamers learn not to just throw money blindly at every kickstarter project, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
    Most kickstarters fail, and most gamers don't fund games through kickstarter at all.  The problem is that if a scammer can get a mere 0.01% of the public to fall for his scam, he can make a lot of money by doing so.
  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Member UncommonPosts: 251
    I dont EVER help fund a Kickstarter...I WILL however buy thier Microtransactions when the game comes out if i like it....Why spend money on somthing MIGHT be finished..???  Hell I dont even shop on Ebay.....LOL
    No one shall Rent space in my head!!!!!  B)
  • xmentyxmenty Member UncommonPosts: 719
    edited May 2018
    Was wondering whether the kickstarter page itself is a contract?
    If you paid certain amount, you are guaranteed to get certain items. 
    If they never get anything, they should get a refund, right?

    pledge
    plɛdʒ/Submit
    noun
    noun: pledge; plural noun: pledges

    1. a solemn promise or undertaking.
    "the conference ended with a joint pledge to limit pollution"
    synonyms: promise, undertaking, vow, word, word of honour, commitment, assurance, oath, covenant, bond, agreement, guarantee, warrant
    "he fulfilled his election pledge to end the war"
    a promise of a donation to charity.
    "appeals for emergency relief met with pledges totalling £250,000,000"
    a solemn undertaking to abstain from alcohol.
    noun: the pledge
    "she persuaded Arthur to take the pledge"

    2.LAW
    a thing that is given as security for the fulfilment of a contract or the payment of a debt and is liable to forfeiture in the event of failure.
    "he had given the object as a pledge to a creditor"

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,989
    edited May 2018
    xmenty said:
    Was wondering whether the kickstarter page itself is a contract?
    If you paid certain amount, you are guaranteed to get certain items. 
    Of course Kickstarter page is a contract.

    A contract is formed by an offer (Kickstarter page) and an acceptance of that offer (payment to Kickstarter). There can be discussion whether Kickstarter is a contract to
      a) Deliver the rewards, or
      b) Deliver the rewards only if crowdfunding money is enough to complete them
    But regardless Kickstarter page is a contract.
     
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    I think I should start a non-scam kickstarter...

    The title would be "Found for Jean-Luc Picard's Retirement"

    I would promise nothing. No fancy new item, no amazing game, nothing. Backers just found me.

    If eventually we reach $500.000, I would eventually send a dedicated photo of my humble self to all backers. And at $1.000.000 they will all get a copy of the great Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing".

    Sounds like a plan.
    That's called a "Go-Fund-Me"

    Kickstarter is for projects and ideas.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,039
    cheyane said:
    Kyleran said:
    goboygo said:
    I think his posts are pretty reasonable all things considered.   And the fact that he still communicates with people means something.  Hes just not a good business man (yet) and maybe never, ambitious but not very good at running his projects.
    He looks more like a mythomaniac to me...
    Darn it, I had to go look that up.  Great word, and I will be looking for ways to weave that into future conversations.


    I bet any political conversation regarding a certain President should do it.
    Well said.  Banana Republic with a sprinkle of nepotism is my usual explanation. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    Ungood said:
    I think I should start a non-scam kickstarter...

    The title would be "Found for Jean-Luc Picard's Retirement"

    I would promise nothing. No fancy new item, no amazing game, nothing. Backers just found me.

    If eventually we reach $500.000, I would eventually send a dedicated photo of my humble self to all backers. And at $1.000.000 they will all get a copy of the great Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing".

    Sounds like a plan.
    That's called a "Go-Fund-Me"

    Kickstarter is for projects and ideas.
    I've actually been solicited for Go Fund Me campaigns ranging from childrens medical bills to paying a families rent for a few months.


    Ungood

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 562
    Ungood said:
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    So let me get this right.

    He has Zero Obligation to repay the Money.. yet.. has chosen to give a refund.. out of his own pocket no less.. and a bunch of crybaby entitled audacious jerks.. are calling him the bad guy?

    Trust me, he is the bad guy. The history behind this is, lets say, unique. You should read up on all of it, Slapshots got you covered if you dig through some old threads on this very website, its eye opening really.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 

    Well, I'll be honest, I am not going to dig though anything, as this sounds like drama for the sake of drama, and I think I would rather drink molten glass then actively look for that kind of stuff.

    But, let me ask you a question. Just one question.

    Is this person required by law, to provide a refund at all?

    I'll await your answer.
    Yes, probably:

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2015/06/dont-let-crowdfunding-be-your-doom

    Right I'll start with a disclaimer, I know nothing of this project or this person...
    but saying that...

    Did you actually read the information in the link you posted before making your comment.
    The FTC don' say he is required by law to provide the refund (or at least didn't until he offered a refund).

    It states his responsibilies are:

    1. Keep your promises when crowdfunding. If you promise rewards, give them.  If you promise refunds, provide them.
    2. Use the money raised from crowdfunding only for the purpose represented. If you collect money for a specified project, like creating a board game, use the money only for that purpose. Don’t use it for personal purposes or to start another project.

    So until he offered the refund he wasn't obliged to give them.
    What he was obliged was to provide the rewards he offered.
    Now reading that (this is not 100% clear but what my interpretation is) if the money was spent appropriately on the project as dictated in the initial Kickstarter project then he has no obligations to provide anything if the project fails.

    As I say i don't know the project or him so I'm not sure if he sent the money appropriately or not.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,989
    AnOldFart said:
    Ungood said:
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    So let me get this right.

    He has Zero Obligation to repay the Money.. yet.. has chosen to give a refund.. out of his own pocket no less.. and a bunch of crybaby entitled audacious jerks.. are calling him the bad guy?

    Trust me, he is the bad guy. The history behind this is, lets say, unique. You should read up on all of it, Slapshots got you covered if you dig through some old threads on this very website, its eye opening really.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 

    Well, I'll be honest, I am not going to dig though anything, as this sounds like drama for the sake of drama, and I think I would rather drink molten glass then actively look for that kind of stuff.

    But, let me ask you a question. Just one question.

    Is this person required by law, to provide a refund at all?

    I'll await your answer.
    Yes, probably:

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2015/06/dont-let-crowdfunding-be-your-doom

    Right I'll start with a disclaimer, I know nothing of this project or this person...
    but saying that...

    Did you actually read the information in the link you posted before making your comment.
    The FTC don' say he is required by law to provide the refund (or at least didn't until he offered a refund).

    It states his responsibilies are:

    1. Keep your promises when crowdfunding. If you promise rewards, give them.  If you promise refunds, provide them.
    2. Use the money raised from crowdfunding only for the purpose represented. If you collect money for a specified project, like creating a board game, use the money only for that purpose. Don’t use it for personal purposes or to start another project.

    So until he offered the refund he wasn't obliged to give them.
    What he was obliged was to provide the rewards he offered.
    Now reading that (this is not 100% clear but what my interpretation is) if the money was spent appropriately on the project as dictated in the initial Kickstarter project then he has no obligations to provide anything if the project fails.

    As I say i don't know the project or him so I'm not sure if he sent the money appropriately or not.
    Greed Monger promised to either fulfill every pledge or to make refunds already during their initial Kickstarter campaign:

    "Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill"

    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012

    That promise would have obliged them to give refunds already after backers got announcement of the game's cancellation when it was cancelled for the first time.
     
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    AnOldFart said:
    Ungood said:
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    So let me get this right.

    He has Zero Obligation to repay the Money.. yet.. has chosen to give a refund.. out of his own pocket no less.. and a bunch of crybaby entitled audacious jerks.. are calling him the bad guy?

    Trust me, he is the bad guy. The history behind this is, lets say, unique. You should read up on all of it, Slapshots got you covered if you dig through some old threads on this very website, its eye opening really.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 

    Well, I'll be honest, I am not going to dig though anything, as this sounds like drama for the sake of drama, and I think I would rather drink molten glass then actively look for that kind of stuff.

    But, let me ask you a question. Just one question.

    Is this person required by law, to provide a refund at all?

    I'll await your answer.
    Yes, probably:

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2015/06/dont-let-crowdfunding-be-your-doom

    Right I'll start with a disclaimer, I know nothing of this project or this person...
    but saying that...

    Did you actually read the information in the link you posted before making your comment.
    The FTC don' say he is required by law to provide the refund (or at least didn't until he offered a refund).

    It states his responsibilies are:

    1. Keep your promises when crowdfunding. If you promise rewards, give them.  If you promise refunds, provide them.
    2. Use the money raised from crowdfunding only for the purpose represented. If you collect money for a specified project, like creating a board game, use the money only for that purpose. Don’t use it for personal purposes or to start another project.

    So until he offered the refund he wasn't obliged to give them.
    What he was obliged was to provide the rewards he offered.
    Now reading that (this is not 100% clear but what my interpretation is) if the money was spent appropriately on the project as dictated in the initial Kickstarter project then he has no obligations to provide anything if the project fails.

    As I say i don't know the project or him so I'm not sure if he sent the money appropriately or not.
    Does paying the oil/gas heating bill(forget which)  for a “lead programmer”  count?   Also, let’s just say this is one of the most incredible Crowdfunding stories ever, spanning this site but also many others.  Trying to comment without knowing the background does the topic an injustice.  Seriously.  If you have a day to kill you should read and watch the stuff.  It’s pure comedy gold.  If I can find the link to the epic google hangout with LumpyMan I will post it.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803
    Slapshot1188 said: Trying to comment without knowing the background does the topic an injustice.  
    It's unbelieveable that without knowing shit he is trying to defend Jason Appleton here.

    I mean we are talking about the guy who declared the Greedmonger project was dead and then he posted pictures of the house he just bought...
    Harbinger of Fools
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,077
    AnOldFart said:
    Ungood said:
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    So let me get this right.

    He has Zero Obligation to repay the Money.. yet.. has chosen to give a refund.. out of his own pocket no less.. and a bunch of crybaby entitled audacious jerks.. are calling him the bad guy?

    Trust me, he is the bad guy. The history behind this is, lets say, unique. You should read up on all of it, Slapshots got you covered if you dig through some old threads on this very website, its eye opening really.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 

    Well, I'll be honest, I am not going to dig though anything, as this sounds like drama for the sake of drama, and I think I would rather drink molten glass then actively look for that kind of stuff.

    But, let me ask you a question. Just one question.

    Is this person required by law, to provide a refund at all?

    I'll await your answer.
    Yes, probably:

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2015/06/dont-let-crowdfunding-be-your-doom

    Right I'll start with a disclaimer, I know nothing of this project or this person...
    but saying that...

    Did you actually read the information in the link you posted before making your comment.
    The FTC don' say he is required by law to provide the refund (or at least didn't until he offered a refund).

    It states his responsibilies are:

    1. Keep your promises when crowdfunding. If you promise rewards, give them.  If you promise refunds, provide them.
    2. Use the money raised from crowdfunding only for the purpose represented. If you collect money for a specified project, like creating a board game, use the money only for that purpose. Don’t use it for personal purposes or to start another project.

    So until he offered the refund he wasn't obliged to give them.
    What he was obliged was to provide the rewards he offered.
    Now reading that (this is not 100% clear but what my interpretation is) if the money was spent appropriately on the project as dictated in the initial Kickstarter project then he has no obligations to provide anything if the project fails.

    As I say i don't know the project or him so I'm not sure if he sent the money appropriately or not.
    Yes, I'm well acquainted with the citation I provided.  I was implying Appleton would want to provide refunds given his project's history (there are plenty of records available right here on mmorpg.com) to avoid a similar fate to "the doom that came to Atlantic city".

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    AnOldFart said:
    Ungood said:
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    So let me get this right.

    He has Zero Obligation to repay the Money.. yet.. has chosen to give a refund.. out of his own pocket no less.. and a bunch of crybaby entitled audacious jerks.. are calling him the bad guy?

    Trust me, he is the bad guy. The history behind this is, lets say, unique. You should read up on all of it, Slapshots got you covered if you dig through some old threads on this very website, its eye opening really.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 

    Well, I'll be honest, I am not going to dig though anything, as this sounds like drama for the sake of drama, and I think I would rather drink molten glass then actively look for that kind of stuff.

    But, let me ask you a question. Just one question.

    Is this person required by law, to provide a refund at all?

    I'll await your answer.
    Yes, probably:

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2015/06/dont-let-crowdfunding-be-your-doom

    Right I'll start with a disclaimer, I know nothing of this project or this person...
    but saying that...

    Did you actually read the information in the link you posted before making your comment.
    The FTC don' say he is required by law to provide the refund (or at least didn't until he offered a refund).

    It states his responsibilies are:

    1. Keep your promises when crowdfunding. If you promise rewards, give them.  If you promise refunds, provide them.
    2. Use the money raised from crowdfunding only for the purpose represented. If you collect money for a specified project, like creating a board game, use the money only for that purpose. Don’t use it for personal purposes or to start another project.

    So until he offered the refund he wasn't obliged to give them.
    What he was obliged was to provide the rewards he offered.
    Now reading that (this is not 100% clear but what my interpretation is) if the money was spent appropriately on the project as dictated in the initial Kickstarter project then he has no obligations to provide anything if the project fails.

    As I say i don't know the project or him so I'm not sure if he sent the money appropriately or not.
    Does paying the oil/gas heating bill(forget which)  for a “lead programmer”  count?   Also, let’s just say this is one of the most incredible Crowdfunding stories ever, spanning this site but also many others.  Trying to comment without knowing the background does the topic an injustice.  Seriously.  If you have a day to kill you should read and watch the stuff.  It’s pure comedy gold.  If I can find the link to the epic google hangout with LumpyMan I will post it.
    I can't find the LumpyMan video... or what I found has been deleted.   I know we had a thread on here where the video was broken down and maybe even copied.   If someone can find that would be awesome.  

    We should watch it once a year, just for old time's sake.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 562
    As I said I didn' know what his promises were and in the context of what I quoted I stand by my reply.

    However in the context of what I have have been told juat here I agree the citation was appropriate and apologise, but hey bit more context next time please
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    Four pages of this, I must have forgotten the part of joining MMORPG.com when they asked:

    Staff Interviewer: "Will you argue the toss about anything no matter how established the facts are and how little you know about the topic."

    Applicant: "Yes".

    Staff Interviewer: "You're in".


    AnOldFart
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,649
    edited May 2018
    AnOldFart said:
    As I said I didn' know what his promises were and in the context of what I quoted I stand by my reply.

    However in the context of what I have have been told juat here I agree the citation was appropriate and apologise, but hey bit more context next time please
    My post wasn’t to criticize but honestly to point out you should read up on this catastrophe.  It’s one of the all time epics.  It has: Crowdfunding, cancelled game, restarted, cancelled, restarted, owner threatening to sue mmorpg.com, threatening to sue multiple others, T-shirt’s, Swinger TV show, Swinger apps, realtors, mma fighting, making an mmo by reading up on it after you raise the money, change of ownership, James Proctor, disability, money for heat bill, store bought assets, engine change, epic livestream, LumpyMan...

    The list goes on.  If there is ONE game to read up on this is it.   There is a decent thread on rpgcodex.net in their mmo forum.  It’s permanently stickied to to top.  That’s just a slice of it though.
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    bartoni33AnOldFartRobsolfKyleranJamesGoblin

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Wasn't he the guy who threatened to sue everyone who was talking shit about him or Greedmonger.

    He was posting that drama right on these very forums if I recall
    [Deleted User]Scot[Deleted User]KyleranBarrikor

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 562
    AnOldFart said:
    As I said I didn' know what his promises were and in the context of what I quoted I stand by my reply.

    However in the context of what I have have been told juat here I agree the citation was appropriate and apologise, but hey bit more context next time please
    My post wasn’t to criticize but honestly to point out you should read up on this catastrophe.  It’s one of the all time epics.  It has: Crowdfunding, cancelled game, restarted, cancelled, restarted, owner threatening to sue mmorpg.com, threatening to sue multiple others, T-shirt’s, Swinger TV show, Swinger apps, realtors, mma fighting, making an mmo by reading up on it after you raise the money, change of ownership, James Proctor, disability, money for heat bill, store bought assets, engine change, epic livestream, LumpyMan...

    The list goes on.  If there is ONE game to read up on this is it.   There is a decent thread on rpgcodex.net in their mmo forum.  It’s permanently stickied to to top.  That’s just a slice of it though.
    I understand and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. hence my apology to the op I quoted.
  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    I totally forgot about the "refunds".

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but these "refunds" were offered during the cryptocurrency boom earlier this year. Apparently he made some "money" during this. He also got the idea to launch his own version. That didn't work out (surprise). Now he's trying again. Are the two linked? You betcha.

    My first two Kickstarters were GM and Shroud of the Avatar! Barely batting .500 there but others have done great.

    I have zero faith that my measly $25 will be refunded. But the drama is well worth the price of admission.

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,423
    laserit said:
    Wasn't he the guy who threatened to sue everyone who was talking shit about him or Greedmonger.

    He was posting that drama right on these very forums if I recall
    Yes, now I don't bother with keeping up on developing games but the threads attracted my attention. You can imagine my surprise that the lead developer was chasing people around the internet to mouth of at them for questioning his studio. The level of unprofessionalism was extraordinary.

    I have never seen anything like it before or since, I think for other studios and developers a lesson was learned. Defend yourself in your blog, official forums, videos and stay as polite as you can. Otherwise you lose all credibility with the gaming community.
    laseritBarrikor
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Scot said:
    laserit said:
    Wasn't he the guy who threatened to sue everyone who was talking shit about him or Greedmonger.

    He was posting that drama right on these very forums if I recall
    Yes, now I don't bother with keeping up on developing games but the threads attracted my attention. You can imagine my surprise that the lead developer was chasing people around the internet to mouth of at them for questioning his studio. The level of unprofessionalism was extraordinary.

    I have never seen anything like it before or since, I think for other studios and developers a lesson was learned. Defend yourself in your blog, official forums, videos and stay as polite as you can. Otherwise you lose all credibility with the gaming community.
    you havent met Derek Smart yet have you :)
    [Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    Shhh, posting stuff like that is sort of like saying "Candyman" 3 times in a mirror or summoning "the Slenderman."

    ;)
    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






Sign In or Register to comment.