The sad part if I know youtubers that are "lore masters" of WoW (they call themselves that), they play wow "since the begining, and I know everything" and they say "They shoved the pandas on wow for kids instead of using existent lore".
I just piss myself laughing everytime.
An entire guild harassed me on forums because I said Pandas would be next playable race (at that time) and not Nagas (the one they wanted) due lack of humanoid bone structure on the character model.
You just can't talk about WoW anymore without being harassed. That's why I don't play wow anymore. Same for EvE.
*pushes glasses up* Well technically the game gave us the title of Loremaster for having dedicated ourselves to questing to such an extent that we know so much of the history and background surrounding Azeroth and its natives.
The lore in WoW has always been young teen fantasy tropes. Re-read some of the stuff you read when you were younger but remember fondly as good writing, and you may find yourself cringing. Metzen's legacy is ridiculous shit like Thrall the greatest orc that ever lived and Varian the memory-loss greatest gladiator that ever lived, turned king of Stormwind and master of diplomacy. When Metzen left and Varian died, that was one of the first good things to happen to the writing. An actual major character death so we could start RELATING TO CHARACTERS who aren't indestructible lords of battle.
I dun mind being bad, but I want to be bad for good reasons, not just to twirl my virtual mustache.
I only followed the lore years back when I was in a roleplaying guild in WoW, it was not too bad back then but seems very convoluted and rather lacking in motivations now. What do the roleplayers make of it all now?
I can just imagine the forum discussion on how they were going to have to bring Pandas(?) in while maintaining some semblance of lore. One thing though the dream cop-out is a none starter, the idea that all the lore used for roleplaying could be erased or altered to get the story to make some sense would have them biting their keyboards.
So I NEVERunverstood this "uuuuggghhh pandas break the lore" whine.
Quote the link
Hailing from the secretive Pandaren Empire, the mighty brewmasters travel the world in search of exotic ales and the finest brewed spirits. These affable warriors rarely seek out danger or trouble, preferring instead to spend their time concocting new and tasty beverages for any brave enough to imbibe them. However, if attacked, the laughing brewmasters bring all of their pandaren agility and ferocity to bear! They are peerless warriors and world class drinkers all in one!
There is the lore that is handed to you and trying to roleplay something that is believable and consistent with "fantasy reality". The forum discussions would have been the likes of can you play anything other than a Drunken Master based on what we know.
Golden's version of Arthas was... below average, to say it nicely, and this is no different. She's just NOT a good writer. It may satisfy kids and teenagers, but I expect more from a book.
But there ARE things she writes exceptionally well. There were two distinct scenes in this book that were so moving -- but they were scenes that had nothing to do with the overarching plot, but were simply what I call "small stories" that tell very personal tales.
I think the problem with tie-in books is that there is a story plot that is given by developers that has to be fleshed out. The plot points are obvious and feel forced. The "in-between" stories are always better.
LOL Alliance good? Really? SMH anyone who's ever played Horde has learned the truth. Alliance has broken their agreements, mishandled information, made deals with the Legion, made slaves of anyone who looked different, and the only time they do something "good" is when something will happen that will remove their power over their people!
Spsssht good riiiiiiight! Who were the authors? Reporters from CNN?
I am a Horde main and while all of the things you say are true (and many other things too), they are alwaysjustified as being "for the greater good" -- but only for the Alliance, of course, because the Horde deserves no good. In addition, everything that is perpetrated against the Horde is cushioned in the sweet, sweet all holy Light. Lastly, most of those who do these things are rogue elements like Blackmoore and Proudmoore, both of whose actions were unsanctioned by the Alliance. In the case of Blackmoore, he wanted to use his Orc slave army to wage war on the Alliance.
LOL Horde good? Really? SMH anyone who's ever played Alliance has learned the truth. Horde has broken their agreements, mishandled information, made deals with the Legion, made slaves of anyone who looked different, and the only time they do something "good" is when something will happen that will remove their power over their people!
Spsssht good riiiiiiight! Who were the authors? Reporters from CNN?
You create an article a week before the book comes out and essentially spoil the plot in the title? Thanks.
LOL as if that hasn't been the plot and theme of the entire GAME since 2004? Really?
If you didn't know that, I question your love of WoW.
I love WoW quite a bit actually. In fact, because of my love for WoW, I've been looking forward to reading this book since I've heard it was announced. Regardless of the longevity of the good vs. evil plot and theme, this is a NEW expansion and a NEW book, meaning there is potential for NEW plot and NEW theme.
Again, you posted this a week early and essentially spoiled it in the title and again, thank you.
I know it's the Internet and spoilers are everywhere, but as someone with 20,000+ posts and "legendary" status on these forums, you should know common courtesies about posting spoilers, especially in the titles of your articles.
I don't know man. I couldn't disagree more with that review.
It's not about Alliance is the ultimate good and Horde ultimate bad. Sylvanas does not stand for the whole horde neither does Anduin stand for the whole Alliance. You have characters like Baine that disagree strongly with Sylvanas actions, so does Saurfang(Beta Battle for Lordaeron). Genn also is more in a gray zone as he wants just simply kill every god damn Forsaken but sees what happens at the cease-fire and changes his mind and the Forsaken(Horde) wants to flee to Stromgarde to be with Calia and the Alliance. There is ALOT of gray in the book and as I said these two characters, sure have their good and evil tendencies, but do not stand for the faction as a whole just cause they are their leaders.
Also Sylvanas ALWAYS has her own agenda and we have to wait how her arc pans out further.
In my honest opinion you should read the book again, see ALL the character and their motives and try to interpret it better. But that review as a whole does represent a complete wrong picture of the book which I thought was fantastic and moving.
I don't know man. I couldn't disagree more with that review.
It's not about Alliance is the ultimate good and Horde ultimate bad. Sylvanas does not stand for the whole horde neither does Anduin stand for the whole Alliance. You have characters like Baine that disagree strongly with Sylvanas actions, so does Saurfang(Beta Battle for Lordaeron). Genn also is more in a gray zone as he wants just simply kill every god damn Forsaken but sees what happens at the cease-fire and changes his mind and the Forsaken(Horde) wants to flee to Stromgarde to be with Calia and the Alliance. There is ALOT of gray in the book and as I said these two characters, sure have their good and evil tendencies, but do not stand for the faction as a whole just cause they are their leaders.
Also Sylvanas ALWAYS has her own agenda and we have to wait how her arc pans out further.
In my honest opinion you should read the book again, see ALL the character and their motives and try to interpret it better. But that review as a whole does represent a complete wrong picture of the book which I thought was fantastic and moving.
Irrespective of whether or not Andy or Sylvie stand for all Horde or all Alliance, they are the heads of their organizations and everything they do reflects on the whole and is interpreted as coming from the whole.
Greymane's change of heart largely started with meeting Faol again and then seeing the kumbaya in Arathi and now he is a whipped puppy of all goodness.
Saurfang has abandoned the Horde and, if you have played on the PTR and through the Burning of Teldrassil as I have, you see that he not only is complicit in the "murder" of civilians at Astranaar, but he ordered it as there were no other Horde leaders there.
Baine is a traitor. That's all there is to it when one conspires with the enemy, exchanged body parts to the contrary.
I stand by the review as a terrible piece of fanfic with a few decently moving moments that have no bearing on the overall story.
I don't know man. I couldn't disagree more with that review.
It's not about Alliance is the ultimate good and Horde ultimate bad. Sylvanas does not stand for the whole horde neither does Anduin stand for the whole Alliance. You have characters like Baine that disagree strongly with Sylvanas actions, so does Saurfang(Beta Battle for Lordaeron). Genn also is more in a gray zone as he wants just simply kill every god damn Forsaken but sees what happens at the cease-fire and changes his mind and the Forsaken(Horde) wants to flee to Stromgarde to be with Calia and the Alliance. There is ALOT of gray in the book and as I said these two characters, sure have their good and evil tendencies, but do not stand for the faction as a whole just cause they are their leaders.
Also Sylvanas ALWAYS has her own agenda and we have to wait how her arc pans out further.
In my honest opinion you should read the book again, see ALL the character and their motives and try to interpret it better. But that review as a whole does represent a complete wrong picture of the book which I thought was fantastic and moving.
Irrespective of whether or not Andy or Sylvie stand for all Horde or all Alliance, they are the heads of their organizations and everything they do reflects on the whole and is interpreted as coming from the whole.
Greymane's change of heart largely started with meeting Faol again and then seeing the kumbaya in Arathi and now he is a whipped puppy of all goodness.
Saurfang has abandoned the Horde and, if you have played on the PTR and through the Burning of Teldrassil as I have, you see that he not only is complicit in the "murder" of civilians at Astranaar, but he ordered it as there were no other Horde leaders there.
Baine is a traitor. That's all there is to it when one conspires with the enemy, exchanged body parts to the contrary.
I stand by the review as a terrible piece of fanfic with a few decently moving moments that have no bearing on the overall story.
Still can't disagree more. Baine is not a traitor and does never conspires against the 'enemy' but also believes that working together with the Alliance to heal the world would be the best option and still obeys his warchiefs orders, as far as the book goes, he still stands with the Horde, after the conversation with Sylvanas and cuts the ties to Anduin.
Greymanes change of heart, as written in the books, does not start with the meeting with Faol(that was Turalyon after he sees the light in Faol)-he runs out of the Cathedral furious- but when he sees that Humans and Forsaken can have bonds together and are not the mindless and killing Scourge anymore but also beings with feelings and needs. You can also see the struggle that Elsie has when the horn gets blown and Calia wants her to get to safety but she is torn apart but would not disobey her Queen, out of fear or love towards her is open for our interpretation.
And still Anduin and Sylvanas actions does not represent all good and all evil for the whole factions but as indivduals. Anduin even tells Sylvanas that this cease-fire is not an offer for peace but to reunite humans and forsaken with their loved ones.
Now I want to know where you see the all evil on Horde side when just Sylvanas gives the order, and JUST her, starts killing the members of the Council-which were happy and looking forward to see their loved ones again. Even Nathanos is kind of shocked of what he sees what Sylvanas does.
And saying it's a terrible piece of fanfic is.. well your opinion.
I still stand by it that that book, sure shows a lot of good and evil, but not of factions but individuals and their motivations and beliefs, whatever they yet be for Sylvanas we still have to find out.
Greymane's transition to Forsaken fan started when he met Faol even though he ran howling from the room with his tail between his legs....though Golden admitted that the tail thing was an "editing mistake" (I call it lack of knowledge of lore, but I digress). His transition to fanboi finished at Arathi.
Baine IS a traitor. There are mechanics in place in the Horde to solve the issue of a problematic leader. He, as his father did before him, could have challenged Sylvanas to mak'gora, but he chose not to. Rinse and repeat with Saurfang.
Writing to the leader of the enemy faction during a time of "high tension" and probable war is an act of treason. There's no getting around that.
The book rewrites Forsaken lore and puts them under Sylvanas's bootheel, something that has NEVER been part of their representation in other works of fiction or in game.
Anduin's and Sylvanas's actions DO represent the whole of their faction just as any "real world" leader's actions are representative of his or her nation despite contrary voices.
*shrugs* You liked it. Swell. I did not. Equally swell. We'll agree to disagree. I stand by my review though I would never stoop to saying that you were mistaken for your thoughts. Meh.
In this one, I stand with Suzie. I could only finish the book after plentiful reminders to self that, just like with the rest of WoW literature, it will barely leak into the game and quite a bit of it will be retconned over the course of the expansion.
Before the Storm for me took the place of the worst Warcraft novel previously occupied by Wolfheart.
Comments
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
lol
The lore in WoW has always been young teen fantasy tropes. Re-read some of the stuff you read when you were younger but remember fondly as good writing, and you may find yourself cringing. Metzen's legacy is ridiculous shit like Thrall the greatest orc that ever lived and Varian the memory-loss greatest gladiator that ever lived, turned king of Stormwind and master of diplomacy. When Metzen left and Varian died, that was one of the first good things to happen to the writing. An actual major character death so we could start RELATING TO CHARACTERS who aren't indestructible lords of battle.
I think the problem with tie-in books is that there is a story plot that is given by developers that has to be fleshed out. The plot points are obvious and feel forced. The "in-between" stories are always better.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Spsssht good riiiiiiight! Who were the authors? Reporters from CNN?
^^^see what I did there
If you didn't know that, I question your love of WoW.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I love WoW quite a bit actually. In fact, because of my love for WoW, I've been looking forward to reading this book since I've heard it was announced. Regardless of the longevity of the good vs. evil plot and theme, this is a NEW expansion and a NEW book, meaning there is potential for NEW plot and NEW theme.
Again, you posted this a week early and essentially spoiled it in the title and again, thank you.
I know it's the Internet and spoilers are everywhere, but as someone with 20,000+ posts and "legendary" status on these forums, you should know common courtesies about posting spoilers, especially in the titles of your articles.
It's not about Alliance is the ultimate good and Horde ultimate bad. Sylvanas does not stand for the whole horde neither does Anduin stand for the whole Alliance. You have characters like Baine that disagree strongly with Sylvanas actions, so does Saurfang(Beta Battle for Lordaeron). Genn also is more in a gray zone as he wants just simply kill every god damn Forsaken but sees what happens at the cease-fire and changes his mind and the Forsaken(Horde) wants to flee to Stromgarde to be with Calia and the Alliance. There is ALOT of gray in the book and as I said these two characters, sure have their good and evil tendencies, but do not stand for the faction as a whole just cause they are their leaders.
Also Sylvanas ALWAYS has her own agenda and we have to wait how her arc pans out further.
In my honest opinion you should read the book again, see ALL the character and their motives and try to interpret it better. But that review as a whole does represent a complete wrong picture of the book which I thought was fantastic and moving.
Greymane's change of heart largely started with meeting Faol again and then seeing the kumbaya in Arathi and now he is a whipped puppy of all goodness.
Saurfang has abandoned the Horde and, if you have played on the PTR and through the Burning of Teldrassil as I have, you see that he not only is complicit in the "murder" of civilians at Astranaar, but he ordered it as there were no other Horde leaders there.
Baine is a traitor. That's all there is to it when one conspires with the enemy, exchanged body parts to the contrary.
I stand by the review as a terrible piece of fanfic with a few decently moving moments that have no bearing on the overall story.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Still can't disagree more. Baine is not a traitor and does never conspires against the 'enemy' but also believes that working together with the Alliance to heal the world would be the best option and still obeys his warchiefs orders, as far as the book goes, he still stands with the Horde, after the conversation with Sylvanas and cuts the ties to Anduin.
Greymanes change of heart, as written in the books, does not start with the meeting with Faol(that was Turalyon after he sees the light in Faol)-he runs out of the Cathedral furious- but when he sees that Humans and Forsaken can have bonds together and are not the mindless and killing Scourge anymore but also beings with feelings and needs. You can also see the struggle that Elsie has when the horn gets blown and Calia wants her to get to safety but she is torn apart but would not disobey her Queen, out of fear or love towards her is open for our interpretation.
And still Anduin and Sylvanas actions does not represent all good and all evil for the whole factions but as indivduals. Anduin even tells Sylvanas that this cease-fire is not an offer for peace but to reunite humans and forsaken with their loved ones.
Now I want to know where you see the all evil on Horde side when just Sylvanas gives the order, and JUST her, starts killing the members of the Council-which were happy and looking forward to see their loved ones again. Even Nathanos is kind of shocked of what he sees what Sylvanas does.
And saying it's a terrible piece of fanfic is.. well your opinion.
I still stand by it that that book, sure shows a lot of good and evil, but not of factions but individuals and their motivations and beliefs, whatever they yet be for Sylvanas we still have to find out.
Baine IS a traitor. There are mechanics in place in the Horde to solve the issue of a problematic leader. He, as his father did before him, could have challenged Sylvanas to mak'gora, but he chose not to. Rinse and repeat with Saurfang.
Writing to the leader of the enemy faction during a time of "high tension" and probable war is an act of treason. There's no getting around that.
The book rewrites Forsaken lore and puts them under Sylvanas's bootheel, something that has NEVER been part of their representation in other works of fiction or in game.
Anduin's and Sylvanas's actions DO represent the whole of their faction just as any "real world" leader's actions are representative of his or her nation despite contrary voices.
*shrugs* You liked it. Swell. I did not. Equally swell. We'll agree to disagree. I stand by my review though I would never stoop to saying that you were mistaken for your thoughts. Meh.
See you in BfA with war mode turned on.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Before the Storm for me took the place of the worst Warcraft novel previously occupied by Wolfheart.