Raph Koster's Postmortems Book Review: A Walk Through the MMO Graveyard - MMORPG.com

SBFord · June 2018

Raph Koster's Postmortems Book Review: A Walk Through the MMO Graveyard - MMORPG.com

When it comes to game development, there are few who have devoted their entire careers to crafting virtual worlds. With a professional life spanning the early days of MUDs to modern-era MMORPGs, Raph Koster has accumulated a wealth of knowledge and experience, ranging from content creation to mechanic design and even leadership.

Read the full story here

Amaranthar · June 2018

Speaking of Bartle, what ever happened to the "explorer"?
His test showed consistently that explorer was the top thing that players were interested in, overall. But games have made it simply a visual sunset thing or part of a rinse and repeat quest, which isn't true exploration at all. Exploration requires unique discovery, and designed discovery built into repeatable quests just doesn't make the cut.
There are, of course, the very few true discoveries in most games. But it's terribly under-utilized.
Much like true "rare items", they were a mistake in UO and since never implemented, despite their obvious desirability.
"We make worlds" went away a long time ago. Will it ever be seen again? I don't care about the claims to such things by PR departments, I want the real thing.
I'm Still Waiting.

Sovrath · June 2018

Can mmorpg.com just buy a copy and get permission to post choice bits? This way, whenever we see a poster say "lazy developers" and "they don't know what they are doing" and "this is the way to really fix it" we can point them to the section and they can have a read.

Scorchien · June 2018

People were playing MUDS in the 80s also , i was playing them thru Quantum -Link on my C-64 , that was in 83 i believe .. just an fyi

But really admire Raph work being a hardcore UO fan for one and still playing (Occaisionally)for 20 years now , i will be picking up this read ..

blamo2000 · June 2018

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

Scorchien · June 2018

blamo2000 said:

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

there were several others before Meridian ... Neverwinter on AOL for one

MadFrenchie · June 2018

Scorchien said:

blamo2000 said:

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

there were several others before Meridian ... Neverwinter on AOL for one

Meridian is credited with being the first 3D MMORPG, but not the first MMORPG to "display graphics" per the wikipedia pages for the titles. Neverwinter does hold that title.

Scorchien · June 2018

MadFrenchie said:

Scorchien said:

blamo2000 said:

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

there were several others before Meridian ... Neverwinter on AOL for one

Meridian is credited with being the first 3D MMORPG, but not the first MMORPG to "display graphics" per the wikipedia pages for the titles. Neverwinter does hold that title.

hence my response to "Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? "

[Deleted User] · June 2018

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Scorchien · June 2018

blueturtle13 said:

Scorchien said:

blamo2000 said:

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

there were several others before Meridian ... Neverwinter on AOL for one

I loved NWN on AOL
I remember paying by the hour to play. I thought at the time "how could this experience get any better?" how I was wrong and in for a great surprise!

Me to , was such a wonderful stepping stone that helped open the gates to what we have today ..

And with my fathers creative erhmm methods he found a way to circumvent there hourly rate , so i got to play it all i wanted for nothing

Gazimoff · June 2018

blamo2000 said:

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

Apologies to you both for this one, I stand corrected. I'll ask Suzie to update.

Gazimoff · June 2018

Sovrath said:

Can mmorpg.com just buy a copy and get permission to post choice bits? This way, whenever we see a poster say "lazy developers" and "they don't know what they are doing" and "this is the way to really fix it" we can point them to the section and they can have a read.

Alas, if we republished Raph's book in full there'd be little reason for people to buy it

. That said, there's no harm in asking if we can print an excerpt if there's interest.

MadFrenchie · June 2018

Scorchien said:

MadFrenchie said:

Scorchien said:

blamo2000 said:

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

there were several others before Meridian ... Neverwinter on AOL for one

Meridian is credited with being the first 3D MMORPG, but not the first MMORPG to "display graphics" per the wikipedia pages for the titles. Neverwinter does hold that title.

hence my response to "Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? "

Absolutely. I was merely expounding to help give a little more insight to blamo regarding the two titles.

heerobya · June 2018

Ralph certainly did a lot right, but also the two main projects of his that I played (UO and SWG) didn't hit their peak till after a long time being live and responding to user feedback.

That is a sign of good leadership, to listen to your community and be willing to challenge your own ideas based on feedback.

Also just a useful case study that no one get's it "right" in an echo chamber.

Some of the more... interesting game dev personalities could learn this lesson.

Amathe · June 2018

What I find interesting are these posts, which by and large are appreciative and respectful of Mr. Koster. I can remember the SWG years when a lot of people were chasing him with torches and pitchforks (broken quests, holo grinding, issue of when Jedi code was actually in the game, etc).

Kyleran · June 2018

With the news yesterday that Portalarium is laying off and cutting back on content delivery, I'm wondering if Raph can call the publisher and see if there's still time bring all the copies back to have an addendum added?

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/company-status.130650/

I'm going to miss Lum, and best of luck to him and all those leaving in finding their next new adventure.

Thanks to @HobbitsWonTheWar and @Wellspring for bringing this to light in another thread.

Amathe · June 2018

MisterZebub said:

Weren't they also all up his ass about it was his fault that Creature Handler was added to SWG and didn't fit the SW universe lore?

There was a cornucopia of ass uppings - this and many others.

Frozenyearround · June 2018

What is it washed up Developer week at mmorpg? First Smed now this guy? Both were a bunch of hacks who have done nothing but get their games shut down.

Kyleran · June 2018

Frozenyearround said:

What is it washed up Developer week at mmorpg? First Smed now this guy? Both were a bunch of hacks who have done nothing but get their games shut down.

Ignorance, it's almost cute sometimes.

Frozenyearround · June 2018

Kyleran said:

Frozenyearround said:

What is it washed up Developer week at mmorpg? First Smed now this guy? Both were a bunch of hacks who have done nothing but get their games shut down.

Ignorance, it's almost cute sometimes.

Denial, it's almost cute sometimes.

Its not ignorance its fact. I have no idea why you "old timers" hold these two in such high regard they together destroyed everything you hold dear in an mmo.

Kyleran · June 2018

Frozenyearround said:

Kyleran said:

Frozenyearround said:

What is it washed up Developer week at mmorpg? First Smed now this guy? Both were a bunch of hacks who have done nothing but get their games shut down.

Ignorance, it's almost cute sometimes.

Denial, it's almost cute sometimes.

Its not ignorance its fact. I have no idea why you "old timers" hold these two in such high regard they together destroyed everything you hold dear in an mmo.

In fact neither of these men are to "blame" for ruining any game I've ever enjoyed.

I don't know much about Smed, but I've read a number of Raphs works and I challenge you to put forth anyone who has a greater understanding around the reality of game design, past, present and future.

Both men have spent far more time delivering games than I could ever hope to and while I may disagree with their past decisions or current opinions, I do not presume to know better than either of them.

After all, my game development qualifications are largely confined to staying at a Holiday Inn Express once.

Ozmodan · June 2018

MadFrenchie said:

Scorchien said:

blamo2000 said:

I remember his lengthy posts on design topics during SWG being developed. Meridian 59 was the first graphical MUD, right? I was never able to get into either UO or SWG, but I did enjoy reading his posts about why they were doing what in SWG. The only other person that sticks out as clearly to me during the early days of mmorpgs is Lum the Mad for whatever reason.

there were several others before Meridian ... Neverwinter on AOL for one

Meridian is credited with being the first 3D MMORPG, but not the first MMORPG to "display graphics" per the wikipedia pages for the titles. Neverwinter does hold that title.

UO was the first accessable MMO. Neither Meridian or Neverwinter were very popular. Neverwinter was on a pay service that few used because it was expensive and Meridian was just pretty much unknown due to lack of distribution.

As to Ralph, he was the architect on my two favorite MMO's UO and SWG. Unfortunately, too many people like games that constantly hold your hand, hence his games never attracted large audiences.

blamo2000 · June 2018

Frozenyearround said:

What is it washed up Developer week at mmorpg? First Smed now this guy? Both were a bunch of hacks who have done nothing but get their games shut down.

I didn't care much for UO, SWG, or EQ, but UO and EQ are still running. And the people that loved them really, really loved them.

Saying some of the key figures that started and shaped modern mmorpgs, and ran the most successful mmorpgs of their times are hacks is beyond disingenuous and pretty ridiculous.

blamo2000 · June 2018

Scorchien said:

People were playing MUDS in the 80s also , i was playing them thru Quantum -Link on my C-64 , that was in 83 i believe .. just an fyi

But really admire Raph work being a hardcore UO fan for one and still playing (Occaisionally)for 20 years now , i will be picking up this read ..

That is crazy you were online in 83. The internet changed the world and you were a solid 15 years ahead of the curve. The picture I have in my head for modems and online in the 80s and early 90s is from movies and books where it was only used for secret government stuff. How big was the online scene back then?

Ozmodan · June 2018

Frozenyearround said:

Kyleran said:

Frozenyearround said:

What is it washed up Developer week at mmorpg? First Smed now this guy? Both were a bunch of hacks who have done nothing but get their games shut down.

Ignorance, it's almost cute sometimes.

Denial, it's almost cute sometimes.

Its not ignorance its fact. I have no idea why you "old timers" hold these two in such high regard they together destroyed everything you hold dear in an mmo.

You know, if you are going to just troll a thread and be nasty about it, why even bother? Your grasp of MMO design is about as weak as they come.

Kyleran · June 2018

blamo2000 said:

Scorchien said:

People were playing MUDS in the 80s also , i was playing them thru Quantum -Link on my C-64 , that was in 83 i believe .. just an fyi

But really admire Raph work being a hardcore UO fan for one and still playing (Occaisionally)for 20 years now , i will be picking up this read ..

That is crazy you were online in 83. The internet changed the world and you were a solid 15 years ahead of the curve. The picture I have in my head for modems and online in the 80s and early 90s is from movies and books where it was only used for secret government stuff. How big was the online scene back then?

I recall buying my first modem (1200b) around 1987 and subscribing to the GEnie service.

Not sure if I ever had one of those "phone cradle" set-ups or if that's just something I am remembering from the movie "Wargames."

I also recall being amazed when a friend and I played our first modem to modem "online" game from our homes over the phone.

By 1990 I was online enough to warrant installing a 2nd phone line for the modem and fax machine (which oddly are still in use today at my office)

Mostly used the modem for surfing BBS sites and early internet surfing, online games were too expensive with GEnie costing $6 to $15 per hour to connect.

I didn't get into online gaming until around 2001 after I got my first cable connection to the internet.

I knew about the early games in the late 90s, but reading people's experience playing them via modems wasn't appealing.

Besides, I thought the idea of playing games online with strangers was weird back then.

I still do think its weird by the way.

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Raph Koster's Postmortems Book Review: A Walk Through the MMO Graveyard - MMORPG.com

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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Raph Koster's Postmortems Book Review: A Walk Through the MMO Graveyard - MMORPG.com

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Comments

거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV