Whats your ideal outcome of WoW Classic?

blamo2000 · June 2018

I think if its popular we may see a BC classic server and a WotLK classic server. I don't see a point in making any other version after that since it would just be various shades of shit. My ideal would be a progression server up through WotLK that continued on WoW's path and gaming philosophy up to around that point, before Ghost Dog or whatever the guy's name was that ruined WoW and wanted toddler's to feel comfortable playing it. You'd have current WoW doing what it does, and then you'd have Good WoW fork off at WotLK and have a different dev team creating new expansions for it and the completely different audience it would cater to with completely different values.

SalmonMan · June 2018

I sorta hope it bombs just so that ,”You think you do, but you don’t.”, Blizzard guy is proved right.

acidblood · June 2018

Not sure why everyone holds WotLK in such high regard... from what I remember the 'rot' (quick mindless levelling, dailies, rep grinds, snooze-fest dungeons, 'everyone gets all the good abilities' class design, etc.) had well and truly set in by that point.

As for my 'ideal' Classic... systems start at 1.12, content starts around 1.3-1.4 and progresses over about a year to 1.12, after which 1.13 and beyond is released.

Future content for Classic would initially focus on smaller group play (5-10 man), bringing it up to just below Naxx level before new 20 and 40 man raids are released. Content would be a mix of new and the 'best of' from WoW's expansions (e.g. Kara would be the first 10 man), but always set in Kalimdor / Easter Kingdoms, filling out all the 'empty' zones before (maybe) introducing new land masses / realms.

Notes:
- Level cap could be increased in 1.13+ if needed for new abilities, but the gap between 60 and 65/70 should be kept small, and class design / customisation should stay true to Vanilla / TBC (i.e. meaningful choices).

- Absolutely ideally (though this is just me), I would also say no battlegrounds, certainly no honor system, and no arena; and let world PvP be as it was (i.e. for fun).

Edit: I know all of that is dreaming... realistically I'll be happy if they just have content progression from 1.0-1.12 over a reasonable timeframe (1-2 years). Not that interested in playing TBC / WotLK, as while they did have some good content, they also reset things so hard (e.g. greens > purples), and made the older content so irrelevant, that they may as well have been separate games.

MadFrenchie · June 2018

I would love to see Blizzard take the original systems, fix some of the obvious and well-agreed upon issues, then maintain that through the expansion content as best they can. Don't alter the mechanics, but adjust some numbers slightly to increase the viability of specs that lagged behind. One of the reasons I didn't stick with Uthgard is because I loved my Pally, yet they refused to give the Pally CC resistance/counters (in terms of RR abilities) needed to warrant an important role in PvP. Some things just didn't work as originally built. I'd like to see numbers adjusted to help make them work a little better.

It's likely the most unlikely route for them to take, though.

Jamar870 · June 2018

After launch I would say 3 to 6 months and then maybe you'll hear something about future content depending on the numbers Blizz sees.

blamo2000 · June 2018

I agree with WotLK having rot set in, but it hadn't yet impacted certain areas such as talents and it also included glyphs, which were awesome and could be so much more. Also, that static BG in the ice place was a ton of fun and didn't get old quick. And, DKs are a lot of fun.

But, agreed. That is when the gameplay started changing for the worse as well.

rpmcmurphy · June 2018

acidblood said:

Not sure why everyone holds WotLK in such high regard... from what I remember the 'rot' (quick mindless levelling, dailies, rep grinds, snooze-fest dungeons, 'everyone gets all the good abilities' class design, etc.) had well and truly set in by that point.

Yes, WotLK is where it started going downhill imo, take levelling dungeons, you could pull whole rooms of mobs and just AoE them down and that pretty much set the path for the expansion.

Kyleran · June 2018

MadFrenchie said:

I would love to see Blizzard take the original systems, fix some of the obvious and well-agreed upon issues, then maintain that through the expansion content as best they can. Don't alter the mechanics, but adjust some numbers slightly to increase the viability of specs that lagged behind. One of the reasons I didn't stick with Uthgard is because I loved my Pally, yet they refused to give the Pally CC resistance/counters (in terms of RR abilities) needed to warrant an important role in PvP. Some things just didn't work as originally built. I'd like to see numbers adjusted to help make them work a little better.

It's likely the most unlikely route for them to take, though.

You played a Pally on Uthgard? Ugh, likely one of the worst RVR classes in DAOC regardless of era.

In its current 1.69 (and eternal) state there is an issue of imbalance favor some classes, and hindering others as in any MMORPG.

But, the server is stuck in time, the RAs wont ever evolve into those which helped other classes become more viable.

Despite delivering a really solid classic DAOC experience which was more stable than the original game, players have quickly drifted away, IMO because nothing new is ever on the horizon.

Even now players are still around, you can tell because most log in often enough to pay their house rent, as few homes in the choice housing zones ever open up. (Its what I do)

Why are they all maintaining their houses? I believe like me they are all hoping and waiting for the long promised, mythical SI expansion to drop, but it doesn't appear likely to ever happen.

Without any change at all, I believe WOW classic servers will be a short lived experience for most as well.

MadFrenchie · June 2018

Kyleran said:

MadFrenchie said:

I would love to see Blizzard take the original systems, fix some of the obvious and well-agreed upon issues, then maintain that through the expansion content as best they can. Don't alter the mechanics, but adjust some numbers slightly to increase the viability of specs that lagged behind. One of the reasons I didn't stick with Uthgard is because I loved my Pally, yet they refused to give the Pally CC resistance/counters (in terms of RR abilities) needed to warrant an important role in PvP. Some things just didn't work as originally built. I'd like to see numbers adjusted to help make them work a little better.

It's likely the most unlikely route for them to take, though.

You played a Pally on Uthgard? Ugh, likely one of the worst RVR classes in DAOC regardless of era.

In its current 1.69 (and eternal) state there is an issue of imbalance favor some classes, and hindering others as in any MMORPG.

But, the server is stuck in time, the RAs wont ever evolve into those which helped other classes become more viable.

Despite delivering a really solid classic DAOC experience which was more stable than the original game, players have quickly drifted away, IMO because nothing new is ever on the horizon.

Even now players are still around, you can tell because most log in often enough to pay their house rent, as few homes in the choice housing zones ever open up. (Its what I do)

Why are they all maintaining their houses? I believe like me they are all hoping and waiting for the long promised, mythical SI expansion to drop, but it doesn't appear likely to ever happen.

Without any change at all, I believe WOW classic servers will be a short lived experience for most as well.

Pally on Uthgard AND original vanilla. Yea, I'm a masochist.

Still haven't found a more interesting Paladin style class anywhere (honestly, why the hell hasn't anyone picked up on the melee styles mechanic on general? Great), though I will admit that Warrior Priests from the Warhammer IP also hold a special place. That concept and the way it was applied in Warhammer Online was just awesome.

It would be cool to see Blizzard release the expansion content while "freezing" talent and class mechanics, and only delivering slight number adjustments as I mentioned. However, that's not going to happen. It will be frozen on time, as you say. Which means that I'll likely level up a character casually to max, then dip my toes into raiding until I've had my fill. Good news is, that will likely take months due to vanilla's lengthy leveling curve.

Kyleran · June 2018

MadFrenchie said:

Kyleran said:

MadFrenchie said:

I would love to see Blizzard take the original systems, fix some of the obvious and well-agreed upon issues, then maintain that through the expansion content as best they can. Don't alter the mechanics, but adjust some numbers slightly to increase the viability of specs that lagged behind. One of the reasons I didn't stick with Uthgard is because I loved my Pally, yet they refused to give the Pally CC resistance/counters (in terms of RR abilities) needed to warrant an important role in PvP. Some things just didn't work as originally built. I'd like to see numbers adjusted to help make them work a little better.

It's likely the most unlikely route for them to take, though.

You played a Pally on Uthgard? Ugh, likely one of the worst RVR classes in DAOC regardless of era.

In its current 1.69 (and eternal) state there is an issue of imbalance favor some classes, and hindering others as in any MMORPG.

But, the server is stuck in time, the RAs wont ever evolve into those which helped other classes become more viable.

Despite delivering a really solid classic DAOC experience which was more stable than the original game, players have quickly drifted away, IMO because nothing new is ever on the horizon.

Even now players are still around, you can tell because most log in often enough to pay their house rent, as few homes in the choice housing zones ever open up. (Its what I do)

Why are they all maintaining their houses? I believe like me they are all hoping and waiting for the long promised, mythical SI expansion to drop, but it doesn't appear likely to ever happen.

Without any change at all, I believe WOW classic servers will be a short lived experience for most as well.

Pally on Uthgard AND original vanilla. Yea, I'm a masochist.

Still haven't found a more interesting Paladin style class anywhere (honestly, why the hell hasn't anyone picked up on the melee styles mechanic on general? Great), though I will admit that Warrior Priests from the Warhammer IP also hold a special place. That concept and the way it was applied in Warhammer Online was just awesome.

It would be cool to see Blizzard release the expansion content while "freezing" talent and class mechanics, and only delivering slight number adjustments as I mentioned. However, that's not going to happen. It will be frozen on time, as you say. Which means that I'll likely level up a character casually to max, then dip my toes into raiding until I've had my fill. Good news is, that will likely take months due to vanilla's lengthy leveling curve.

If I was retired already I'd go back and try to take down the horsemen, but I just won't devote the time (or loss of sleep) now.

btdt · June 2018

MadFrenchie said:

Kyleran said:

MadFrenchie said:

I would love to see Blizzard take the original systems, fix some of the obvious and well-agreed upon issues, then maintain that through the expansion content as best they can. Don't alter the mechanics, but adjust some numbers slightly to increase the viability of specs that lagged behind. One of the reasons I didn't stick with Uthgard is because I loved my Pally, yet they refused to give the Pally CC resistance/counters (in terms of RR abilities) needed to warrant an important role in PvP. Some things just didn't work as originally built. I'd like to see numbers adjusted to help make them work a little better.

It's likely the most unlikely route for them to take, though.

You played a Pally on Uthgard? Ugh, likely one of the worst RVR classes in DAOC regardless of era.

In its current 1.69 (and eternal) state there is an issue of imbalance favor some classes, and hindering others as in any MMORPG.

But, the server is stuck in time, the RAs wont ever evolve into those which helped other classes become more viable.

Despite delivering a really solid classic DAOC experience which was more stable than the original game, players have quickly drifted away, IMO because nothing new is ever on the horizon.

Even now players are still around, you can tell because most log in often enough to pay their house rent, as few homes in the choice housing zones ever open up. (Its what I do)

Why are they all maintaining their houses? I believe like me they are all hoping and waiting for the long promised, mythical SI expansion to drop, but it doesn't appear likely to ever happen.

Without any change at all, I believe WOW classic servers will be a short lived experience for most as well.

Pally on Uthgard AND original vanilla. Yea, I'm a masochist.

Still haven't found a more interesting Paladin style class anywhere (honestly, why the hell hasn't anyone picked up on the melee styles mechanic on general? Great), though I will admit that Warrior Priests from the Warhammer IP also hold a special place. That concept and the way it was applied in Warhammer Online was just awesome.

It would be cool to see Blizzard release the expansion content while "freezing" talent and class mechanics, and only delivering slight number adjustments as I mentioned. However, that's not going to happen. It will be frozen on time, as you say. Which means that I'll likely level up a character casually to max, then dip my toes into raiding until I've had my fill. Good news is, that will likely take months due to vanilla's lengthy leveling curve.

WoW classic was hurt by the "no progression server" announcement. That alone means it is by no means the classic we all played. I picture retail WoW retuned to be "like" classic with a facelift to remove all the cataclysm destruction. Animations will be like now, talent trees will be like old, models will be like now, quests will be like old, everything will be released on launch day, rather than progression style of old. If they even attempt to bring balance to the classes, they will have basically neutered classic, because classic wasn't balanced. Some classes/builds were clearly crap and anyone playing them was shunned. Private servers will remain the closest facsimile to classic WoW even after the release of Blizzards version of classic.

MidPrincess · June 2018

My ideal outcome, personally, is for me and my SO to enjoy it for several months, and then basically see what happens. If the server does wind up staying "stuck" with no progression, I don't know that we would hang around more than 6 months or so, but my hope would be that the player numbers will be strong enough for Blizzard to at least consider adding progression, or perhaps making an official BC server. We are both huge fans of BC and had most of our fun during that time. Suppose all we can do is wait and see now.

GeezerGamer · June 2018

blamo2000 said:

I agree with WotLK having rot set in, but it hadn't yet impacted certain areas such as talents and it also included glyphs, which were awesome and could be so much more. Also, that static BG in the ice place was a ton of fun and didn't get old quick. And, DKs are a lot of fun.

But, agreed. That is when the gameplay started changing for the worse as well.

WOTLK was where Blizzard started painting themselves into a corner with the Raid or Die mentality. It got so bad that there was a gap from players hitting 80 later on in the expansion that they had to create heroic epics that were better than the original epic raid gear you got from Early Naxx just to help bridge the gap.....But this also meant that all that early expansion end game content was worthless.

WOTLK was bad. Very bad for WoW.

Raven · June 2018

MadFrenchie said:

I would love to see Blizzard take the original systems, fix some of the obvious and well-agreed upon issues, then maintain that through the expansion content as best they can. Don't alter the mechanics, but adjust some numbers slightly to increase the viability of specs that lagged behind. One of the reasons I didn't stick with Uthgard is because I loved my Pally, yet they refused to give the Pally CC resistance/counters (in terms of RR abilities) needed to warrant an important role in PvP. Some things just didn't work as originally built. I'd like to see numbers adjusted to help make them work a little better.

It's likely the most unlikely route for them to take, though.

I think this is very unlikely, that would create essentially a whole another development timeline, getting blizzard to do a classic set of servers was already hard enough. No one is going to agree on the changes that were good versus the ones that were bad.

I think as long as they can shoehorn their new server tech into the classic servers, it means those servers can keep running at relatively low cost, where classic servers can be spun up on demand with shared instances.

As for ideal outcomes, I mean the ideal outcome is this creates some sort of WoW renaissance, personally I don't have the time or the willpower to play WoW classic as it was when it was released ( or whatever patch they are going for ), but if Classic is extremely popular and causes a sort of surge of sustained numbers again, Blizzard might see itself with essentially 2 dev streams going on, and the current dev stream ( Legion, BFA ) might change their entire philosophy to bring the mainline game closer to Classic in the good bits and selectively leave out all the stuff I dont care about, and that could end up benefiting everyone.

fs23otm · June 2018

What they need to do is separate the content from the fixes...

Basically, get the fixes(or improvements/nerf) to an acceptable level where it is balanced...

Then separate out the "content release" to a chronological order...

So the game might have say BC or WTLOK QoL changes.. but be classic in content.

This is what EQ did with it's TLP, while it is not a classic EQ experience... it does hit nostalgia marks

MadFrenchie · June 2018

btdt said:

MadFrenchie said:

Kyleran said:

MadFrenchie said:

I would love to see Blizzard take the original systems, fix some of the obvious and well-agreed upon issues, then maintain that through the expansion content as best they can. Don't alter the mechanics, but adjust some numbers slightly to increase the viability of specs that lagged behind. One of the reasons I didn't stick with Uthgard is because I loved my Pally, yet they refused to give the Pally CC resistance/counters (in terms of RR abilities) needed to warrant an important role in PvP. Some things just didn't work as originally built. I'd like to see numbers adjusted to help make them work a little better.

It's likely the most unlikely route for them to take, though.

You played a Pally on Uthgard? Ugh, likely one of the worst RVR classes in DAOC regardless of era.

In its current 1.69 (and eternal) state there is an issue of imbalance favor some classes, and hindering others as in any MMORPG.

But, the server is stuck in time, the RAs wont ever evolve into those which helped other classes become more viable.

Despite delivering a really solid classic DAOC experience which was more stable than the original game, players have quickly drifted away, IMO because nothing new is ever on the horizon.

Even now players are still around, you can tell because most log in often enough to pay their house rent, as few homes in the choice housing zones ever open up. (Its what I do)

Why are they all maintaining their houses? I believe like me they are all hoping and waiting for the long promised, mythical SI expansion to drop, but it doesn't appear likely to ever happen.

Without any change at all, I believe WOW classic servers will be a short lived experience for most as well.

Pally on Uthgard AND original vanilla. Yea, I'm a masochist.

Still haven't found a more interesting Paladin style class anywhere (honestly, why the hell hasn't anyone picked up on the melee styles mechanic on general? Great), though I will admit that Warrior Priests from the Warhammer IP also hold a special place. That concept and the way it was applied in Warhammer Online was just awesome.

It would be cool to see Blizzard release the expansion content while "freezing" talent and class mechanics, and only delivering slight number adjustments as I mentioned. However, that's not going to happen. It will be frozen on time, as you say. Which means that I'll likely level up a character casually to max, then dip my toes into raiding until I've had my fill. Good news is, that will likely take months due to vanilla's lengthy leveling curve.

WoW classic was hurt by the "no progression server" announcement. That alone means it is by no means the classic we all played. I picture retail WoW retuned to be "like" classic with a facelift to remove all the cataclysm destruction. Animations will be like now, talent trees will be like old, models will be like now, quests will be like old, everything will be released on launch day, rather than progression style of old. If they even attempt to bring balance to the classes, they will have basically neutered classic, because classic wasn't balanced. Some classes/builds were clearly crap and anyone playing them was shunned. Private servers will remain the closest facsimile to classic WoW even after the release of Blizzards version of classic.

That's why I say it's unlikely. However, for folks to hide behind the classic label to justify keeping certain specs from being useful seems short-sighted and, I daresay, selfish of gamers.

There is no true benefit to leaving underwhelming specs underwhelming except for nostalgia reasons. If nostalgia is the primary reason a gamer is trying Classic, no amount of authenticity will keep them there. Nostalgia alone won't last.

Panther2103 · June 2018

Who knows what they will actually do with the server. When they announced the no progression server, I wonder if the intention is slightly different. I brought this up a few months ago, but I think if the server is successful, and retains an audience, which it will at least for a while, then maybe they will pull the Oldschool Runescape card and update it with content that differs from the actual games releases that caters more towards the vanilla audience. New raids, and content but separate from other content. It would be a lot of work, but if done correctly can yield long term players that may not play the retail game anymore.

People were saying the same thing when OSRS was announced that I see here, it won't hold players, it's a pointless endeavor, it will die quick because of rose tinted glasses. But what ended up happening? They retained the population, and it quickly grew to a larger population than the 3.0 client and has stayed there ever since. I think last time I checked OSRS was at like 40k users online, and 3.0 was at like 28k. WoW classic could potentially do this as well if they do it correctly, I doubt they would put this much work into something that they aren't going to plan on having something happen other than just leaving it alone. Obviously people want to play it as shown by the incredibly large private server populations, as well as people who currently play who may want to try.

But who knows. Everything is speculation, I hope they can make it work, as I liked the progression style back in Vanilla quite a bit more than the current progression.

JeffSpicoli · June 2018

My ideal outcome would be more people playing classic than retail, such a lopsided proportion that Blizzard is forced to rethink everything about the current direction of WOW.

blamo2000 · June 2018

MisterZebub said:

Best outcome for me personally would be it launches, people remember exactly why all the changes and mutations that changed Wow forever were made, and then silently move on. Thereby proving once and for all that classic MMORPGs are well and truly dead, and we can stop all this pointless shilly shallying hoping for an MMO Renaissance.

Why know why the did it - to attract a broader audience - including super casuals and literal small children. The issue isn't QoL features - its the stripping of the core of the game, all the systems and mechanics that appealed to thinking adults. I highly doubt anyone displaced by this is going to login and think, "Hey. Thinking and trying are dumb! Clicker Heroes here I come!"

JeffSpicoli · June 2018

blamo2000 said:

MisterZebub said:

Best outcome for me personally would be it launches, people remember exactly why all the changes and mutations that changed Wow forever were made, and then silently move on. Thereby proving once and for all that classic MMORPGs are well and truly dead, and we can stop all this pointless shilly shallying hoping for an MMO Renaissance.

Why know why the did it - to attract a broader audience - including super casuals and literal small children. The issue isn't QoL features - its the stripping of the core of the game, all the systems and mechanics that appealed to thinking adults. I highly doubt anyone displaced by this is going to login and think, "Hey. Thinking and trying are dumb! Clicker Heroes here I come!"

For me its not even about the "thinking" & "trying" its about the REWARDING experience classic provides. I love that some random mob can actually drop something useful for my character, or the usefulness of crafting, Or the rewarding experience a successful dungeon run provides. See that Warlock or Paladin on their mount, they had to do a exhausting chain quest to earn that. Time + Effort + skill should always = Greater Reward. Not of a fan of the every one gets a trophy culture.

centkin · June 2018

Looked at the top of the page... Legion is expected out in 2016 -- that page certainly needs updating.

Dauzqul · June 2018

I hope they don't allow previous Collector's Edition items etc. I want it to be 100% pure and even. If someone wants to show something off, they can earn it in the game.

kjempff · June 2018

I hope it will result in Progression servers.. stepping patch by patch (no one said it had to be a realistic hope).

blamo2000 · June 2018

kjempff said:

I hope it will result in Progression servers.. stepping patch by patch (no one said it had to be a realistic hope).

What in-game items came with the vanilla collector's edition?

Edit- I just looked it up and its only an in-game pet. That does nothing and helps no one at all in any tangible way. And I obviously quoted the wrong guy too, like a huge idiot. I meant to quote the guy above that said-

Dauzqul said:

I hope they don't allow previous Collector's Edition items etc. I want it to be 100% pure and even. If someone wants to show something off, they can earn it in the game.

kabitoshin · June 2018

-Updated graphics like legion (toggle-able*)

-Better item stacking like Soul Shards for instance

-Battle / Guardian elixir implemented

-Progressive (Start with MC / Onyxia)

-Re-tuned bosses to make up for player knowledge and talents

-Guild Banks

That's just off the top of my head without thinking too much, I'm okay with the game being true to how the original was. Some controversial stuff I would like would include re-worked boss mechanics since most were very simplistic.

Nilden · June 2018

thunderC said:

My ideal outcome would be more people playing classic than retail, such a lopsided proportion that Blizzard is forced to rethink everything about the current direction of WOW.

I also want this to happen but it would be the entire MMORPG industry that is forced to rethink everything.

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Whats your ideal outcome of WoW Classic?

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Aloha Mr Hand !

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