How do you define the "RPG" in mmorpg?

Amathe · July 2018

When I play monopoly I usually choose the shoe as my board piece. I don't think of myself as roleplaying that shoe. I just use it as a placeholder. Even though technically I am appearing in game as a shoe and not as myself, and even through I do make choices for the shoe and move it around, that is not RP to me (or to anyone else really).

Also to me, when I play as a character in a mmorpg, I make all sorts of choices, such as race, class, ability trees, and so on. But I don't consider that "roleplaying." Again. my character is just a placeholder for me to move around as I play the game. My wizard does not behave like a wizard. She doesn't even behave like me making any effort to behave like a wizard. She's just a glorified clothes rack to hold loot who shoots fireballs when I press a button.

Now, on those rare occasions when i actually participated with other people who, like me, made an effort to act out how their character could be expected to behave in a developing dialogue or storyline, that is what roleplaying means to me. I have never been any good at it. But I do appreciate the efforts of those who are talented at this.

I remember there being quite a lot more roleplayers in mmorpgs when I started playing them circa 2002 than there are now. A shame, really.

What might be done to better encourage RPG before we lose it altogether?

Vermillion_Raventhal · July 2018

Amathe said:

When I play monopoly I usually choose the shoe as my board piece. I don't think of myself as roleplaying that shoe. I just use it as a placeholder. Even though technically I am appearing in game as a shoe and not as myself, and even through I do make choices for the shoe and move it around, that is not RP to me (or to anyone else really).

Also to me, when I play as a character in a mmorpg, I make all sorts of choices, such as race, class, ability trees, and so on. But I don't consider that "roleplaying." Again. my character is just a placeholder for me to move around as I play the game. My wizard does not behave like a wizard. She doesn't even behave like me making any effort to behave like a wizard. She's just a glorified clothes rack to hold loot who shoots fireballs when I press a button.

Now, on those rare occasions when i actually participated with other people who, like me, made an effort to act out how their character could be expected to behave in a developing dialogue or storyline, that is what roleplaying means to me. I have never been any good at it. But I do appreciate the efforts of those who are talented at this.

I remember there being quite a lot more roleplayers in mmorpgs when I started playing them circa 2002 than there are now. A shame, really.

What might be done to better encourage RPG before we lose it altogether?

The line is blurry. Usually the divide RPG by character progression, story and customization. At the same time many games include this. Many sports games allow you to create a character appearance, archetype, advance skills, build your career story and sometimes even has developer story.

For MMORPG and RPG are very different. I consider player story and agency is more important than having a developer driven story. RPG part is redifined by the ability to be open ended and organic due to other players.

Amathe · July 2018

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

The line is blurry. Usually the divide RPG by character progression and customization. At the same time many games include this. Many sports games allow you to create a character appearance, archetype, advance skills, build your career story and sometimes even has developer story.

Yes. I can also think of many pen and paper war games where I can choose a side, the type of units I invest in, how many units, whether I emphasize land or naval forces, where and how to build my fortresses, and so on. Those are not normally considered RPGs.

Gutlard · July 2018

Dev's need to give the RP players tools that let them act out their roles more, and a safe place to do it. LOTRO has a pretty strong RP base, or at least it did a few years ago when I played last.

Part of the tools are in-game mechanics, but also a robust setting/lore that would give a good base to start from also.

As far as what RPG means to me, it's a game with a role that I play (hero/villain/assassin/etc.) while I move through a story/experience, whether that is created by me or the dev doesn't really matter I guess.

For you it may not matter most of the time, but for some, their enjoyment can totally hinge on them being able to mentally embody this character.

Would it matter to you if every time you logged in your character would look/be different? Different race/physical characteristics? I think that would drive me crazy for some reason.

Gut Out!

Mendel · July 2018

I agree with your idea of RP. To me, role playing has nothing to do with gear or level progression. It is how my character represents themselves in an artificial world. This almost always translates to how the character talks and acts. The world lore doesn't define role playing, but it can form a ground work for ideas.

I've tried to romance Innkeep Elora. I've tried to engage others by praising Rallos Zek in their name. I've lamented about the cold and lack of firewood in the area. Mostly for my own benefit, because it was almost always a monologue rather than a dialog. My Rallos Zek worshiping warrior had a long story about how she felt that her god had betrayed her, played out in several PoP raids.

What can encourage RP? Simply, a reason. Games could provide social setting to pull players together. The game structure doesn't guide the players into anything except killing mobs. Put in mechanics that allow judges to evaluate a crafted good or a performance. Have events that occur like The Harvest Ball or the City's Anniversary, or even include a mechanism for players to create their own events, including attendance lists, dress code and cost of the event, plus scheduling areas in-game for the event.

A company could do wonders to encourage acting in character. It could even extend to rewards for quality role playing by allowing the players to evaluate other players.

Scot · July 2018

You described elements of a MMORPG like picking a class which is what I think of as video game roleplaying, then you have immersion which means playing the game how you imagine your character would, finally you have playing the role with other people. It is the interaction between players which is actually like table top roleplaying.

Now all three in a MMORPG typically involve picking a class and so on, but it is only if you do more than that you actually end up roleplaying.

Amathe · July 2018

I suppose you could argue that if you equip some armor, put on a helmet, pick up an axe, and go about hitting people with it, you have at least achieved the bare minimum of acting out a warrior. Make that warrior a dwarf and have him drink lots of ale, and your RPG just got a little better. You are behaving in a way that differentiates you from other people, in a way that selecting the shoe in Monopoly does not. I get this.

But personally I feel there is still a difference between playing a warrior and role playing one. Playing a warrior just means pressing buttons. Choosing Axe ability 1 over Axe ability 2 is still just pressing buttons. That is why we call this a "spec" and not a "role play persona." When you start acting out your warrior, making him truly unique, that is when to me you begin to role play.

Kyleran · July 2018

MMORPG.

Massively Multiplayer Online Regular Progression Game.

What else would it mean?

postlarval · July 2018

I put myself in the place of my character and try and think, act, and make choices based on how I've defined that character's personality and worldview.

Octagon7711 · July 2018

Role play for me is any type of behavior that changes my state of mind. It's basically ones attitude that defines roleplay. So role play is anything that takes us out of one world and places us in another. MMOs, RPGs, LARPing, whatever the experience. It's why I love questing and personal stories in most games. It's why I also sometimes during gameplay and wonder what it would be like if my character decided to stop adventuring and stayed in that little village I just saved. It's also why in some games I end up spending most of my time in a few select areas and have basically settled down there and made it a type of home base.

One reason I liked SWG was being able to fine a nice area and place a house there.

Kyleran · July 2018

Torval said:

Kyleran said:

MMORPG.

Massively Multiplayer Online Regular Progression Game.

What else would it mean?

It could mean so much more. It just doesn't.

That's because genre fans have been willing to redefine RPG to fit into "MMO". They shouldn't be so surprised then when other genres bastardize MMO the way MMORPGs have the RPG aspect.

I blame our willingness to embrace mediocrity as a compromise to "get what we want".

Hey now, my many years of never compromising has left me with nothing to play.

Is that how it was supposed to work?

Sephiroso · July 2018

There's a only a couple statics to every 'RPG' game i play. Number 1 is there is always some type of character progression. Whether this is a level system, getting more skills/equipment/etc, or whatever. Character progression is a must. Number 2 is, there must be some type of cohesive story. Whether it's well written or not isn't important. The story just needs to be present to flesh out the world and the inhabitants.

Beyond those 2 things, nothing else is needed for an RPG to be an RPG other than some type of gameplay(since it needs to be a game to be an RPG). What this means is, combat isn't necessary for an RPG to be an RPG. You can have character progression without having to fight. You can have a story without there being deathly monsters lurking in the shadows.

You also don't need to be able to make your own character to roleplay, you can take on the role of another character for instance. Look at Octopath Traveler, it's an RPG but you don't make your characters or name them, they have their own lives and backstory, you're simply playing from where they were in life from whenever the game started.

hallucigenocide · July 2018

rpg is the excuse people use for wanting to be overpowered in my experience.
keep going on about character progression and what not but it's more like "i got all this fancy gear now why shouldn't i be able to one shot everything in my path?"

laserit · July 2018

I was in a Horde guild named "Dreadnaught" on the Greymane server back in Vanilla WoW.

We didn't run around grunting and trying to talk like Orcs would or anything like that. We rode all around Azeroth on a regular basis trying to raise hell, Burning and Pillaging.

We wanted and tried to be the bad guys. Not by ganking, camping or being assholes. We wanted to be "The Horde"

My FPS was down into the single digits on many a night.

There was also an alliance rogue at the same time who used to sneak in and around horde towns and gank you when you least expected it. I died many a time to his blade and I would always have a chuckle and a smile on my face. The bastard got me again. Here's to you "Punish"

That for me is role playing in an MMORPG

Amathe · July 2018

hallucigenocide said:

rpg is the excuse people use for wanting to be overpowered in my experience.
keep going on about character progression and what not but it's more like "i got all this fancy gear now why shouldn't i be able to one shot everything in my path?"

Arrant nonsense.

Sephiroso · July 2018

hallucigenocide said:

rpg is the excuse people use for wanting to be overpowered in my experience.
keep going on about character progression and what not but it's more like "i got all this fancy gear now why shouldn't i be able to one shot everything in my path?"

You have no idea what character progression even means if you think it means being overpowered.

Sephiroso · July 2018

laserit said:

I was in a Horde guild named "Dreadnaught" on the Greymane server back in Vanilla WoW.

We didn't run around grunting and trying to talk like Orcs would or anything like that. We rode all around Azeroth on a regular basis trying to raise hell, Burning and Pillaging.

We wanted and tried to be the bad guys. Not by ganking, camping or being assholes. We wanted to be "The Horde"

My FPS was down into the single digits on many a night.

There was also an alliance rogue at the same time who used to sneak in and around horde towns and gank you when you least expected it. I died many a time to his blade and I would always have a chuckle and a smile on my face. The bastard got me again. Here's to you "Punish"

That for me is role playing in an MMORPG

Obligatory "The Horde" aren't the bad guys of WoW.

laserit · July 2018

Sephiroso said:

laserit said:

I was in a Horde guild named "Dreadnaught" on the Greymane server back in Vanilla WoW.

We didn't run around grunting and trying to talk like Orcs would or anything like that. We rode all around Azeroth on a regular basis trying to raise hell, Burning and Pillaging.

We wanted and tried to be the bad guys. Not by ganking, camping or being assholes. We wanted to be "The Horde"

My FPS was down into the single digits on many a night.

There was also an alliance rogue at the same time who used to sneak in and around horde towns and gank you when you least expected it. I died many a time to his blade and I would always have a chuckle and a smile on my face. The bastard got me again. Here's to you "Punish"

That for me is role playing in an MMORPG

Obligatory "The Horde" aren't the bad guys of WoW.

Our thinking was more Ghengis Khan

edit: I knew shit about WoW's lore at that time.

Amathe · July 2018

ikcin said:

RPG - character design, choices and progression.

That is pretty close to Mr. Potato Head being an RPG.

Azaron_Nightblade · July 2018

Amathe said:

When I play monopoly I usually choose the shoe as my board piece. I don't think of myself as roleplaying that shoe. I just use it as a placeholder. Even though technically I am appearing in game as a shoe and not as myself, and even through I do make choices for the shoe and move it around, that is not RP to me (or to anyone else really).

Also to me, when I play as a character in a mmorpg, I make all sorts of choices, such as race, class, ability trees, and so on. But I don't consider that "roleplaying." Again. my character is just a placeholder for me to move around as I play the game. My wizard does not behave like a wizard. She doesn't even behave like me making any effort to behave like a wizard. She's just a glorified clothes rack to hold loot who shoots fireballs when I press a button.

Now, on those rare occasions when i actually participated with other people who, like me, made an effort to act out how their character could be expected to behave in a developing dialogue or storyline, that is what roleplaying means to me. I have never been any good at it. But I do appreciate the efforts of those who are talented at this.

I remember there being quite a lot more roleplayers in mmorpgs when I started playing them circa 2002 than there are now. A shame, really.

What might be done to better encourage RPG before we lose it altogether?

It wasn't so much that there were more RPers, it was just more common for those first gen geeks (like us) to be both gamer and RPer. Today's MMO player base is much, much larger than during those times. And much more diverse, which is why the RP community seems so small in comparison. MMOs went mainstream compared to the original niche that mainly appealed to RPG and DnD fans.

As for the other matter... the "RPG" part in MMORPG for me is basically directly related to the world and how interactive it is. How alive. Which directly ties into how easy it is to "live there".
Alternatively; how many RPG aspects the game has. SWTOR, ESO and GW2 are prime examples of this. With their fully voiced story campaigns that offer dialogue choices that affect the outcomes of story content.

hallucigenocide · July 2018

Sephiroso said:

hallucigenocide said:

rpg is the excuse people use for wanting to be overpowered in my experience.
keep going on about character progression and what not but it's more like "i got all this fancy gear now why shouldn't i be able to one shot everything in my path?"

You have no idea what character progression even means if you think it means being overpowered.

i don't think it.. it's just the excuse i've seen many(way too many) use.
"i don't want a fair fight in pvp because i've spent more time doing it so i deserve to win no matter the skill" is what i'm referring to really.

Amathe · July 2018

Azaron_Nightblade said:

As for the other matter... the "RPG" part in MMORPG for me is basically directly related to the world and how interactive it is. How alive. Which directly ties into how easy it is to "live there".

I respect that you are free to define RPG for your own gaming experience however you wish. But if I were to use your criteria, I think that Pokemon Go would be a good RPG. After all, you go out into an actual world, encounter mythical creatures, interact with those creatures, progress, and so on. And, based upon the 2 billion dollars that company made, people surely are living in that game.

I'm glad however that you appreciate RPers.

Azaron_Nightblade · July 2018

Amathe said:

Azaron_Nightblade said:

As for the other matter... the "RPG" part in MMORPG for me is basically directly related to the world and how interactive it is. How alive. Which directly ties into how easy it is to "live there".

I respect that you are free to define RPG for your own gaming experience however you wish. But if I were to use your criteria, I think that Pokemon Go would be a good RPG. After all, you go out into an actual world, encounter mythical creatures, interact with those creatures, progress, and so on. And, based upon the 2 billion dollars that company made, people surely are living in that game.

I'm glad however that you appreciate RPers.

I meant more like interactions with housing, chairs and other objects out in the world. But sure. :P

Alcuin · July 2018

I define role-playing in a computer game as making decisions for and about my avatar that he/she/it would make as a being that exists in the game world.

There are many things in different games to take into consideration that affect those choices: class, race, faction, in-game events/circumstances, etc.

It can be a subtle difference about "why" you do it.

In WoW, for instance: I don't think there is any in-game benefit to walking into a tavern, purchasing a drink, and drinking it in between quests. I don't always do that, but I have done that, because, in my mind, that is what my character would've done.

Back in the day, It also served as an opportunity to linger and perhaps meet another player to group with.

So hanging out in a tavern, ordering an ale, and recruiting another adventurer to venture into the kobold-infested caves near Goldshire is role-playing.

But just hanging around with the purpose of finding other players to group and gain XP for the candle quest isn't.

The thing is, you can accomplish both goals at the same time if you want.

Amathe · July 2018

ikcin said:
The games have rules. And the rules define the games. That is why the dude's shoe cannot RP. RP could be a character progression too. Again - L2. In L2 you can become a clan leader, officer, craftsman, miner. And the roles have meaning and consequences in the game. Also the holy trinity, trade and etc.

This is an interesting position. If you occupy a role in the game, be it druid, healer, tailor, etc., you are roleplaying because you are playing a role (more than one, in your example).

But that might also make chess an RPG. Every piece on the board has a function and performs that function distinctly and differently than other chess pieces. Are you role playing your knight or your bishop in chess? I would say not.

Scorchien · July 2018

Well there Role Playing as in Skyrim , where you can be a humble Leatherworker Hunter that Lycanthropes and kills one young woman a month for ex .. You can do and be whatever you want playing out your history backdrop and lore as you choose

And there's playing a Role as in Witcher 3 where you are Geralt , and stuck to a few choices of a scripted story line , His Story , His Life , His Lore and Background ..

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How do you define the "RPG" in mmorpg?

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How do you define the "RPG" in mmorpg?

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV