A Bumpy Start to Release 56 Causes a Rollback and a Retry - Shroud of the Avatar - MMORPG.com

SBFord · July 2018

A Bumpy Start to Release 56 Causes a Rollback and a Retry - Shroud of the Avatar - MMORPG.com

Shroud of the Avatar News - The launch of the latest patch for Shroud of the Avatar has not come without its problems. After maintenance was complete, developers came back to the official site to announce that it would be rolling servers back to the pre-patch status in order to give it another go. As of this writing, the restart / relaunch of Update 56 is now live.

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BluntedJ · July 2018

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

JamesGoblin · July 2018

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Sorry, but neither is the team small (well, it IS now after the game crashed and burned and they fired half of their staff) nor is it's budget small (well, it IS now since they ran out of money and are on the edge of bankrupcy - see previous bracket).

Interesting that they started repeating that "small team, small budget"(!) excuse a lot recently, and we can frequently see it on the official forums, reddits, youtube...this is just another echo.

Mackaveli44 · July 2018

Regardless of how often or consistent they update the game, the fact of the matter is that it's a shit game. They can continue updating it all they want, there's so many problems with the game.

LeFantome · July 2018

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Say whatever you want. I still have to take a dump everyday. It doesn't make it good or smell good. The fact that they still try to make a good game doesn't mean it's a good game. A pile of shit will always be a pile of shit. Doesn't matter how often you update your shit.

Slapshot1188 · July 2018

All is well

Mendel · July 2018

At least these guys know what a 'rollback' is and have both the capability to do so, the knowledge when such a thing is necessary, and the willingness to do so. Hooray for standard IT practices!

couponfork · July 2018

LeFantome said:

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Say whatever you want. I still have to take a dump everyday. It doesn't make it good or smell good. The fact that they still try to make a good game doesn't mean it's a good game. A pile of shit will always be a pile of shit. Doesn't matter how often you update your shit.

you are my favorite. +1 to this, Richard Garriott should be ASHAMED that he released this turd.

Aeander · July 2018

LeFantome said:

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Say whatever you want. I still have to take a dump everyday. It doesn't make it good or smell good. The fact that they still try to make a good game doesn't mean it's a good game. A pile of shit will always be a pile of shit. Doesn't matter how often you update your shit.

We have actual proof that a mediocre game CAN be fixed and popular with long term support and frequent updates. Namely, Warframe, which was launched within a year of development by an overstaffed developer on the verge of financial collapse. It was limited, mediocre, and met with a resounding shrug by the gaming community at large. Now it is one of the largest games on the planet. This despite being rejected by major publishers in both western and eastern markets and being told several times that the game would fail.

Do I think that the same will happen for Shroud? Hell no. Shroud sucks and Richard has shown time and time again that there is reason to doubt his ability to perform in the modern gaming industry. But at the same time, never underestimate the difference that long term updates can have.

JamesGoblin · July 2018

Aeander said:

LeFantome said:

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Say whatever you want. I still have to take a dump everyday. It doesn't make it good or smell good. The fact that they still try to make a good game doesn't mean it's a good game. A pile of shit will always be a pile of shit. Doesn't matter how often you update your shit.

We have actual proof that a mediocre game CAN be fixed and popular with long term support and frequent updates. Namely, Warframe, which was launched by an overstaffed developer on the verge of financial collapse. It was limited, mediocre, and met with a resounding shrug by the gaming community at large. Now it is one of the largest games on the planet.

Do I think that the same will happen for Shroud? Hell the fuck no. Shroud sucks and Richard has shown time and time again that there is reason to doubt his ability to perform in the modern gaming industry. But at the same time, never underestimate the difference that long term updates can have.

Unfortunately, majority - great majority I guess - of these updates were cash shop stuff, and not much was done to improve a steaming pile of...code SotA is, or to work on a wide array of design problems or even direct blunders. Constant milking of customers by cash shop, promisses and more cash shop and promises is what they kept on doing, and that's what killed the project - I dare not using the word game, because what they launched is alpha-level exit strategy (exit from possible obligations and sues that might be "generated" by $20M of money they received to make the game, if they were honest and just announced shutdown / bankrupcy).

Another "detail" is, 56 months ago they had IIRC between 40 and 50 employees, now they have maybe a dozen, possibly less!? - and it keeps on shrinking, nothing strange for a project on the verge of bankrupcy. Their recent updates are just flipping Unity store assets, often cynically without any intervention; Despair can be seen both in their actions and in their words, but only if you know history and can read between their lines heavily filled with spins and wordsmithing.

For anyone interested in financial details, you can check SotA's most recent SEC Filing documents (to their horror, they are forced to make these publicly available), say on Shroud of the Avatar RAW reddit. Many folks there were speculating on a quick shutdown and such (because the company had money for roughly one more month of operation), but I was arguing that no such thing will happen in the foreseable future, but we'll rather withess a silent death - connected to my comment above on trying to avoid legal consequences.

And indeed that's what happened - soon they started firing their staff, reducing it to the current skeleton crew, and became much more aggressive with their telethons (aka "begathons"), doubling the number - but without much effect. Even their most trusted defensive force, their notorious whales, started turning back on them. Say, yesterday on reddit we had sincere confessions of a guy who finally left the game and sold his stuff after spending $16k(!) on SotA.

TL:DR no matter how slim and lacking their "consistent updates" were, they won't be able to keep even that level - I gave the data just to make this different from just another "SotA suxx!" post.

Kyleran · July 2018

Aeander said:

LeFantome said:

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Say whatever you want. I still have to take a dump everyday. It doesn't make it good or smell good. The fact that they still try to make a good game doesn't mean it's a good game. A pile of shit will always be a pile of shit. Doesn't matter how often you update your shit.

We have actual proof that a mediocre game CAN be fixed and popular with long term support and frequent updates. Namely, Warframe, which was launched within a year of development by an overstaffed developer on the verge of financial collapse. It was limited, mediocre, and met with a resounding shrug by the gaming community at large. Now it is one of the largest games on the planet. This despite being rejected by major publishers in both western and eastern markets and being told several times that the game would fail.

Do I think that the same will happen for Shroud? Hell no. Shroud sucks and Richard has shown time and time again that there is reason to doubt his ability to perform in the modern gaming industry. But at the same time, never underestimate the difference that long term updates can have.

Nonsense. Soon as the millions of UO fans looking to play a new Richard Garriott game finally hear there is one out, they swarm by the tens of thousands and the glory days will return.

bcbully · July 2018

This is the guy who said pvp was bad doubles down or scripted boss, quests, doll houses... meanwhile RPbattle grounds are making 100s of billions..

such a disconnect from the gaming community, delusional even.

There will NEVER be a pve only/overcentic game comes near the success of recent pvp games. It’s dead Jim.

Kyleran · July 2018

bcbully said:

This is the guy who said pvp was bad doubles down or scripted boss, quests, doll houses... meanwhile RPbattle grounds are making 100s of billions..

such a disconnect from the gaming community, delusional even.

There will NEVER be a pve only/overcentic game comes near the success of recent pvp games. It’s dead Jim.

Perhaps he should have stripped out the MMORPG elements and replaced them with a BR simulation?

Aeander · July 2018

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

This is the guy who said pvp was bad doubles down or scripted boss, quests, doll houses... meanwhile RPbattle grounds are making 100s of billions..

such a disconnect from the gaming community, delusional even.

There will NEVER be a pve only/overcentic game comes near the success of recent pvp games. It’s dead Jim.

Perhaps he should have stripped out the MMORPG elements and replaced them with a BR simulation?

You joke about that, but the one thing the BR genre is missing is a real medieval fantasy BR with a melee focus. Granted, it would have to have more quality put into it than Richard is capable of.

jason523 · July 2018

bcbully said:

This is the guy who said pvp was bad doubles down or scripted boss, quests, doll houses... meanwhile RPbattle grounds are making 100s of billions..

such a disconnect from the gaming community, delusional even.

There will NEVER be a pve only/overcentic game comes near the success of recent pvp games. It’s dead Jim.

When it comes to MMOs it will always be the PvE one that will be the most successful. People do not like spending hours grinding for materials/gold to have it lost because some guy comes along and wants his stuff. Maybe the guy decides to hang around the area and kill the guy over and over while he's just trying to get to the next town for a quest or meet a friend.

H1Z1, PUBG, Fortnite, CoD, BF, are not a good measure to say that PvP is where it's at. Those are completely different games that foster different mindsets going in.

Next you'll say that Trammel killed UO, even though subscription numbers after trammel was implemented will tell you a different story. It's the design choices that came along after Trammel that changed the game and killed it for many.

MightyUnclean · July 2018

couponfork said:

LeFantome said:

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Say whatever you want. I still have to take a dump everyday. It doesn't make it good or smell good. The fact that they still try to make a good game doesn't mean it's a good game. A pile of shit will always be a pile of shit. Doesn't matter how often you update your shit.

you are my favorite. +1 to this, Richard Garriott should be ASHAMED that he released this turd.

Maybe a future, actual turd release of RG's will be auctioned off in a begathon? I mean, he sold his blood...

LeFantome · July 2018

MightyUnclean said:

couponfork said:

LeFantome said:

BluntedJ said:

Say what you want about this game, they have consistently updated it every month for 56 months. I got in around R30. This is the first hiccup in a release I have seen. And they patch regularly for the week or so afterwards to squash bugs. Small team. Small budget. Decent game.

Say whatever you want. I still have to take a dump everyday. It doesn't make it good or smell good. The fact that they still try to make a good game doesn't mean it's a good game. A pile of shit will always be a pile of shit. Doesn't matter how often you update your shit.

you are my favorite. +1 to this, Richard Garriott should be ASHAMED that he released this turd.

Maybe a future, actual turd release of RG's will be auctioned off in a begathon? I mean, he sold his blood...

and the death of his mom...

VladamirBegemot · July 2018

How many of you guys calling it a turd actually play? If you used to, how long has it been?

What are you even complaining about? Pointing and saying "It's a turd" doesn't actually mean anything.

The fact is, Shroud has a ton of the things that MMO communities have been clamoring for for the last several years.

We've got awesome crafting, towns, the best housing/deco system in MMO's (soon to include player made dungeons), totally customizable combat, a stable player driven economy that you can have a store(s) in, tons of sandbox toys, and a great community.

A tutorial is coming next month or September, so hopefully that early game learning curve will disappear. At that point everything but the story/questing system is solid or stellar, and that's high on the list as well. This game IS going to be huge, they are on a clear trajectory for it.

FionwynWyldemane · July 2018

I have to agree with what Vlad is saying especially the fact that calling something a turd doesn't make it true. I too have to wonder how many of you actually play the game? As for the OP and the *bumpy start*, yep that is true. It's also true that in the 3.5 years I've played, this is the first time I've seen them do a rollback.

I would encourage anyone who has never actually played the game to get in a free trial and see for yourself how awesome the game is. If you have never actually worked with game developers to build a game, you'll find this quite an exhilarating experience.

VladamirBegemot · July 2018

Fionwyn said:

I have to agree with what Vlad is saying especially the fact that calling something a turd doesn't make it true. I too have to wonder how many of you actually play the game? As for the OP and the *bumpy start*, yep that is true. It's also true that in the 3.5 years I've played, this is the first time I've seen them do a rollback.

I would encourage anyone who has never actually played the game to get in a free trial and see for yourself how awesome the game is. If you have never actually worked with game developers to build a game, you'll find this quite an exhilarating experience.

Not to mention the rollback was over before most of us even got the patch installed. And we all got a free day of double XP out of it, so if you DID lose an hour of fighting, it won't take long to get it back.

But hey, always good to have the game mentioned.

Re: the rest of the post, many optimizations this release. And fire arrows and poison arrows. And dagger blades out of Unicorn horns, bowstrings out of Unicorn tail. A creepy little dolly, and so much more.

MightyUnclean · July 2018

VladamirBegemot said:

How many of you guys calling it a turd actually play? If you used to, how long has it been?

What are you even complaining about? Pointing and saying "It's a turd" doesn't actually mean anything.

The fact is, Shroud has a ton of the things that MMO communities have been clamoring for for the last several years.

We've got awesome crafting, towns, the best housing/deco system in MMO's (soon to include player made dungeons), totally customizable combat, a stable player driven economy that you can have a store(s) in, tons of sandbox toys, and a great community.

A tutorial is coming next month or September, so hopefully that early game learning curve will disappear. At that point everything but the story/questing system is solid or stellar, and that's high on the list as well. This game IS going to be huge, they are on a clear trajectory for it.

I'm glad you're enjoying it. I also believe that you're in for one hell of a letdown.

Scot · July 2018

FionwynWyldemane said:

I have to agree with what Vlad is saying especially the fact that calling something a turd doesn't make it true. I too have to wonder how many of you actually play the game? As for the OP and the *bumpy start*, yep that is true. It's also true that in the 3.5 years I've played, this is the first time I've seen them do a rollback.

I would encourage anyone who has never actually played the game to get in a free trial and see for yourself how awesome the game is. If you have never actually worked with game developers to build a game, you'll find this quite an exhilarating experience.

Welcome to the boards! I can't say I agree with you, but your passion for MMORPG's is duly noted.

TheScavenger · July 2018

bcbully said:

This is the guy who said pvp was bad doubles down or scripted boss, quests, doll houses... meanwhile RPbattle grounds are making 100s of billions..

such a disconnect from the gaming community, delusional even.

There will NEVER be a pve only/overcentic game comes near the success of recent pvp games. It’s dead Jim.

I agree completely. A successful MMO can easily just be a map with some buildings and players killing each other. No levels, no grinding, nothing. Just pure unadulterated PvP.

This is why so many MMOs fail. They make bad content, when all they have to do is throw people together and have them fight. many other genres do this with great success, even fallout is doing it with fallout 76.

But I'm sure MMOs will catch up, remove all the useless crafting, grinding, skills, levels etc...and just focus on the REAL content of the game...PvP

FionwynWyldemane · July 2018

Scot said:

FionwynWyldemane said:

I have to agree with what Vlad is saying especially the fact that calling something a turd doesn't make it true. I too have to wonder how many of you actually play the game? As for the OP and the *bumpy start*, yep that is true. It's also true that in the 3.5 years I've played, this is the first time I've seen them do a rollback.

I would encourage anyone who has never actually played the game to get in a free trial and see for yourself how awesome the game is. If you have never actually worked with game developers to build a game, you'll find this quite an exhilarating experience.

Welcome to the boards! I can't say I agree with you, but your passion for MMORPG's is duly noted.

Thanks! No need to agree with me as we all have different games we like to play and for different reasons. :-) I can appreciate that Shroud of the Avatar isn't everyone's cup of tea. Which is why I believe that the people who don't like SOTA should find a game they do like and talk about how wonderful that game is. Positive energy is a thing of beauty.

Scot · July 2018

FionwynWyldemane said:

Scot said:

FionwynWyldemane said:

I have to agree with what Vlad is saying especially the fact that calling something a turd doesn't make it true. I too have to wonder how many of you actually play the game? As for the OP and the *bumpy start*, yep that is true. It's also true that in the 3.5 years I've played, this is the first time I've seen them do a rollback.

I would encourage anyone who has never actually played the game to get in a free trial and see for yourself how awesome the game is. If you have never actually worked with game developers to build a game, you'll find this quite an exhilarating experience.

Welcome to the boards! I can't say I agree with you, but your passion for MMORPG's is duly noted.

Thanks! No need to agree with me as we all have different games we like to play and for different reasons. :-) I can appreciate that Shroud of the Avatar isn't everyone's cup of tea. Which is why I believe that the people who don't like SOTA should find a game they do like and talk about how wonderful that game is. Positive energy is a thing of beauty.

I am afraid you have to take the good with the bad on here. I still have not written of SotA myself, it seems we have entered an era where newly launched MMOs are a work in progress. This was always the case to a certain extent, but with the new indies coming out it seems to me as if they may all be in what is some sort of extended beta after launch.

We have seen some amazing turn around's in the MMO world, Anarchy Online and FF online being the two biggest I know of. We do hear of players having a great time with friends, it is outside of such groups that most of the criticisms come. But as yet no indie has done such a turn around, so for me SotA is still on a time out.

postlarval · July 2018

Scot said:

FionwynWyldemane said:

Scot said:

FionwynWyldemane said:

I have to agree with what Vlad is saying especially the fact that calling something a turd doesn't make it true. I too have to wonder how many of you actually play the game? As for the OP and the *bumpy start*, yep that is true. It's also true that in the 3.5 years I've played, this is the first time I've seen them do a rollback.

I would encourage anyone who has never actually played the game to get in a free trial and see for yourself how awesome the game is. If you have never actually worked with game developers to build a game, you'll find this quite an exhilarating experience.

Welcome to the boards! I can't say I agree with you, but your passion for MMORPG's is duly noted.

Thanks! No need to agree with me as we all have different games we like to play and for different reasons. :-) I can appreciate that Shroud of the Avatar isn't everyone's cup of tea. Which is why I believe that the people who don't like SOTA should find a game they do like and talk about how wonderful that game is. Positive energy is a thing of beauty.

I am afraid you have to take the good with the bad on here. I still have not written of SotA myself, it seems we have entered an era where newly launched MMOs are a work in progress. This was always the case to a certain extent, but with the new indies coming out it seems to me as if they may all be in what is some sort of extended beta after launch.

We have seen some amazing turn around's in the MMO world, Anarchy Online and FF online being the two biggest I know of. We do hear of players having a great time with friends, it is outside of such groups that most of the criticisms come. But as yet no indie has done such a turn around, so for me SotA is still on a time out.

Fionwyn "Two-Post Wonder" Wyldmane is one of the regulars from the whale pod over on the SotA forums. She's only here to white-knight for Vlad...don't fall for it.

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A Bumpy Start to Release 56 Causes a Rollback and a Retry - Shroud of the Avatar - MMORPG.com

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV