Good job Blizzard is able to get people to buy their products on a whim and make lots of money.
Now try making a game that is good in ANY one area and i might care.
Blizzard can't make classes very good,combat is laughable MOST of the time and skills are usually meaningless,like the outcome is automatic no matter what you do.
Blizzard has and ALWAYS will design the game to pull you along on a leash and on a very specific path.
Their ONLY goal the last couple years has been to try and get newer players through the game faster so they are able to buy the newer expansions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For the record I'm kind of 50/50 on BFA at this point, Im liking some things alot and others i find done very poorly.
I LOVE being in the world -- it's so gorgeously designed, is SO different than the rest of Azeroth and, best of all, there's no fel green! I love touring around and looking at all of the little touches and the inspiring level design. It's amazing for a 14-year-old game.
However, the gameplay is clunky (GCD needs to be the same length across the board and have the length reduced) and the grind is horrific and uninspiring. As Bill said in his article yesterday, the progression problem is huge and will ultimately, I believe, hurt BfA unless they address it somehow.
Or at least stop calling it the GCD because when it's not global anymore.... Yeah, they need to fix some things. Content design team and systems/mechanics aren't working well together (my opinion).
I'm really unhappy with them and the xpac at the moment which is why I'm not even playing it yet. I'm hoping they get it sorted out by holiday.
From what I understood, the GCD is affected by Haste. So even driving consistency across classes, players would enjoy different GCDs.
Btw, that's a huge problem in and of itself: pretty much every build now, the stat priority goes:
1. Primary stat (e.g. strength, intelligence)
2. Haste
3. Who gives a fuck?
That's not good design.
EDIT- Grammar R gud!
When Legion ended, my Blood DK had 33% Haste. Once I hit 120 and equipped the highest Haste gear I could find or craft....it's 10% and I struggle to keep it at 10%. It has had a terribly negative impact on tanking effectively and staying alive. When combined with the reduction in aggro efficacy, BDK tanking is in a painful spot.
Yea, seeing those secondary stats drop like rocks each time I dinged feels like I'm headed the wrong direction.
I'd like Blizzard to take a good, hard look at secondary stats in general. They (more specifically, Haste) have become the holy Grail of gear building. It could be done a lot better imo.
My suggestion would be to revamp talents to include builds that create mechanics that can forego Haste or, at least, focus on another stat as the primary secondary stat to pursue.
Blizzard did take a long, hard look at secondary stats.
They explained all of this at BlizzCon last year.
They explained why they were removing the focus of gearing from secondary stats to primary stats and their philosophy behind it. Multiple times. Almost a year ago.
So, how are people surprised by this?
Because their intent didn't quite deliver- haste is damn near always the stat you wanna pump to make your build work. It hasn't become less important, it's become more. There's no variety among the primary stats at all- you build stamina and the other primary that directly relates to your skills. The game even locks you into that by only allowing gear you can wear to contain those two primary stats.
The only variety you can have is still in secondary stats, and now there's pretty much only variety there as a techicality. Haste reigns supreme without a lot of competition.
Haste right now is a very important stat for many specs but it has been greatly devalued because of its stat weight.
It takes a lot more points of Haste to get any meaningful benefit out of it.
@SBFord was complaining about her Blood DK but right now for the stat weight for Strength is 50% more than Haste and Stamina is 50% more than Strength. Which means you need twice as much Haste compared to Stamina for the Haste to just equal the value of Stamina.
Im not sure why I need to explain stat weights but here we are.
Haste may "reign supreme" again in the final raid tier but right now anyone stacking Haste is a fool.
Outside of DAOC the best is still the best. Sorry Wizardry it must be killing you on the inside that WoW still destroys anything you play or have played. No suckering me in to buy their average game, they know how to deliver.
The Vanilla comments are funny, WoW wasn't hard then at all.
Still kinda surprised to see WoW steaming along so well after all these years, because out of the hundreds of friends/guildies I know only 3 bought it and only 1 is still playing.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Still kinda surprised to see WoW steaming along so well after all these years, because out of the hundreds of friends/guildies I know only 3 bought it and only 1 is still playing.
I know well over 40 people who returned and are loving it because of BFA. Some have said they can probably convince more to come. So it balances itself out.
I feel like everyone here is missing the true point in why people enjoy Vanilla wow. It was a community of people who worked together there was no cross server bull crap there was no phasing there were huge quest chains to enter certain raids. Things didnt just happen in a day you couldnt be max level in 4.5hrs i know theres a 50 level diffrence but still vanilla wasnt about the end game it was about the adventure to max level. I hope to see people enjoy the leveling experience and not rush it to get to raiding. I know with how long 1-60 takes there can be a lot of down time with everything from running to dungeon to earning enough gold to buy your first mount. As someone who enjoyed Nostalrius quiet avidly it took me 15days to hit max level cause i wasnt rushing i was leveling professions and trying to run a social guild and just having fun. Anyone who things vanilla is about the end game is delisional also wait till we get to Naxx people say it's easy but try earning the gear for your entire raid to kill stuff.
Because their intent didn't quite deliver- haste is damn near always the stat you wanna pump to make your build work. It hasn't become less important, it's become more. There's no variety among the primary stats at all- you build stamina and the other primary that directly relates to your skills. The game even locks you into that by only allowing gear you can wear to contain those two primary stats.
The only variety you can have is still in secondary stats, and now there's pretty much only variety there as a techicality. Haste reigns supreme without a lot of competition.
Haste right now is a very important stat for many specs but it has been greatly devalued because of its stat weight.
It takes a lot more points of Haste to get any meaningful benefit out of it.
@SBFord was complaining about her Blood DK but right now for the stat weight for Strength is 50% more than Haste and Stamina is 50% more than Strength. Which means you need twice as much Haste compared to Stamina for the Haste to just equal the value of Stamina.
Im not sure why I need to explain stat weights but here we are.
Haste may "reign supreme" again in the final raid tier but right now anyone stacking Haste is a fool.
It's still called for in any build. As Bill mentioned, the issue is with itemization. Quest rewards leveling up err heavily towards mastery and versatility, which just aren't as effective as haste. Since so many mechanics include building resources and expending them, recharging your core skills to build and discharge those resources is paramount. Haste reigned supreme this entire time; there is no "again." People have reported 330 being the iLvl they hit when they started feeling like they were "catching back up." They weren't talking about stacking any other secondary stat to do it.
The power curve is off, and quest rewards include sub-par secondary stats for the most part.
EDIT- I forgot to mention the GCD places even more importance on Haste, because Haste reduces it.
It's still called for in any build. As Bill mentioned, the issue is with itemization. Quest rewards leveling up err heavily towards mastery and versatility, which just aren't as effective as haste. Since so many mechanics include building resources and expending them, recharging your core skills to build and discharge those resources is paramount. Haste reigned supreme this entire time; there is no "again."
This 100%. I'm not trying to stack Haste, but what I've received on gear is woefully low. 15% would smooth out the rotation.
from 11m at one point to 3.4? not sure if you should be bragging or not? lol
Lol, sad as hell. So confused.
We don't know how many units sold because the 3.4 million is DAY ONE sales only and doesn't include pre-orders which are easily double that.
Granted, it's not 10M but...c'mon. It's a fourteen year old game. There's not another decade-and-a-half old game that's pulling anything remotely close to what WoW does -- MMO or otherwise.
from 11m at one point to 3.4? not sure if you should be bragging or not? lol
Lol, sad as hell. So confused.
We don't know how many units sold because the 3.4 million is DAY ONE sales only and doesn't include pre-orders which are easily double that.
Granted, it's not 10M but...c'mon. It's a fourteen year old game. There's not another decade-and-a-half old game that's pulling anything remotely close to what WoW does -- MMO or otherwise.
understood, but don't confuse quantity with quality.
I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, y'know.
BfA has some amazing (but small) stories and the level design is out of this world. But it also has a lot of problems that need to be addressed and that, if they're not, will have a seriously negative impact on the sub numbers.
from 11m at one point to 3.4? not sure if you should be bragging or not? lol
Lol, sad as hell. So confused.
We don't know how many units sold because the 3.4 million is DAY ONE sales only and doesn't include pre-orders which are easily double that.
Granted, it's not 10M but...c'mon. It's a fourteen year old game. There's not another decade-and-a-half old game that's pulling anything remotely close to what WoW does -- MMO or otherwise.
understood, but don't confuse quantity with quality.
I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, y'know.
BfA has some amazing (but small) stories and the level design is out of this world. But it also has a lot of problems that need to be addressed and that, if they're not, will have a seriously negative impact on the sub numbers.
100% this. The stories and zone design are worth every bit of the issues imo.
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
Toxic, lol, I love how people still say this. It s no less toxic then FFXIV, and yes I ve played both.
from 11m at one point to 3.4? not sure if you should be bragging or not? lol
Lol, sad as hell. So confused.
We don't know how many units sold because the 3.4 million is DAY ONE sales only and doesn't include pre-orders which are easily double that.
Granted, it's not 10M but...c'mon. It's a fourteen year old game. There's not another decade-and-a-half old game that's pulling anything remotely close to what WoW does -- MMO or otherwise.
understood, but don't confuse quantity with quality.
I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, y'know.
BfA has some amazing (but small) stories and the level design is out of this world. But it also has a lot of problems that need to be addressed and that, if they're not, will have a seriously negative impact on the sub numbers.
100% this. The stories and zone design are worth every bit of the issues imo.
My highest character is currently 118, Alliance side, and I agree. What I have experienced so far has been really good. All 3 zones have been great and there are still a ton of quests I need to finish in each. The dungeons as well have been excellent. Did Tol Dagor for the first time a couple days ago and it reminded me of vanilla Deadmines and was a great experience.
The game still oozes charm. Walking around Boralus is like stepping back into a Fable game, in the best way. Stormsong Valley is so beautiful it makes you wish the entire game took place in it. The game has its fair share of issues but let's not act like they no longer put out great content.
I have many issues with the game, coming from someone looking forward to Classic, but it's still a great game. I don't allow what I wish it was to poison the experience of what it is.
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
Wait a minute...
You think Final Fantasy XIV isn't cartoony and childish?
Have you ever looked at a goobbue, a moogle, a lalafell and the many other ridiculous things in FFXIV?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
Wait a minute...
You think Final Fantasy XIV isn't cartoony and childish?
Have you ever looked at a goobbue, a moogle, a lalafell and the many other ridiculous things in FFXIV?
Your game is cartoonish and childish. My game is for REAL adults!
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Because their intent didn't quite deliver- haste is damn near always the stat you wanna pump to make your build work. It hasn't become less important, it's become more. There's no variety among the primary stats at all- you build stamina and the other primary that directly relates to your skills. The game even locks you into that by only allowing gear you can wear to contain those two primary stats.
The only variety you can have is still in secondary stats, and now there's pretty much only variety there as a techicality. Haste reigns supreme without a lot of competition.
Haste right now is a very important stat for many specs but it has been greatly devalued because of its stat weight.
It takes a lot more points of Haste to get any meaningful benefit out of it.
@SBFord was complaining about her Blood DK but right now for the stat weight for Strength is 50% more than Haste and Stamina is 50% more than Strength. Which means you need twice as much Haste compared to Stamina for the Haste to just equal the value of Stamina.
Im not sure why I need to explain stat weights but here we are.
Haste may "reign supreme" again in the final raid tier but right now anyone stacking Haste is a fool.
It's still called for in any build. As Bill mentioned, the issue is with itemization. Quest rewards leveling up err heavily towards mastery and versatility, which just aren't as effective as haste. Since so many mechanics include building resources and expending them, recharging your core skills to build and discharge those resources is paramount. Haste reigned supreme this entire time; there is no "again." People have reported 330 being the iLvl they hit when they started feeling like they were "catching back up." They weren't talking about stacking any other secondary stat to do it.
The power curve is off, and quest rewards include sub-par secondary stats for the most part.
EDIT- I forgot to mention the GCD places even more importance on Haste, because Haste reduces it.
Called for in ANY build?
Uh, no. Not by a long shot. This is unfortunately a problem when going to a new expansion with vast changes to stats like this: people think that what was important is still important currently and spread misinformation.
Some specs like Wind Walker, Beast Mastery and Frost DK Haste is their worst stat. And there are specs like Subtlety, Affliction and Guardian where Haste is second worst.
Also, my Vengeance DH is item level 339 and I am most definitely not "catching back up". Currently leveling my Monk to replace my DH.
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
Wait a minute...
You think Final Fantasy XIV isn't cartoony and childish?
Have you ever looked at a goobbue, a moogle, a lalafell and the many other ridiculous things in FFXIV?
Your game is cartoonish and childish. My game is for REAL adults!
What? I didn't say that. I'm subbed to FFXIV.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
Wait a minute...
You think Final Fantasy XIV isn't cartoony and childish?
Have you ever looked at a goobbue, a moogle, a lalafell and the many other ridiculous things in FFXIV?
Your game is cartoonish and childish. My game is for REAL adults!
What? I didn't say that. I'm subbed to FFXIV.
It was a sarcastic post because I often see people complaining their competitor MMO (WoW usually) is childish but their own MMO is never childish. Even though, a lot of the times, their MMO has just as childish and cartoony things as WoW does.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
Wait a minute...
You think Final Fantasy XIV isn't cartoony and childish?
Have you ever looked at a goobbue, a moogle, a lalafell and the many other ridiculous things in FFXIV?
Your game is cartoonish and childish. My game is for REAL adults!
What? I didn't say that. I'm subbed to FFXIV.
It was a sarcastic post because I often see people complaining their competitor MMO (WoW usually) is childish but their own MMO is never childish. Even though, a lot of the times, their MMO has just as childish and cartoony things as WoW does.
Oh, I see. You were aiming it at the person I replied to.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
It's so incredibly sad that there is no competition. There are other games out there, but nothing else even comes close to WoW. Remember when WoW would announce/drop a patch on anther games expansion or launch date. They used to kinda worry back then. Now they don't even do that. Think about it guys/gals, we're playing a 14 year old game. Ugh. They have no competition and only improve when enough people complain about something. Are we still going to be playing this Wow in 10 years? In 20?
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
Wait a minute...
You think Final Fantasy XIV isn't cartoony and childish?
Have you ever looked at a goobbue, a moogle, a lalafell and the many other ridiculous things in FFXIV?
Your game is cartoonish and childish. My game is for REAL adults!
What? I didn't say that. I'm subbed to FFXIV.
It was a sarcastic post because I often see people complaining their competitor MMO (WoW usually) is childish but their own MMO is never childish. Even though, a lot of the times, their MMO has just as childish and cartoony things as WoW does.
Oh, I see. You were aiming it at the person I replied to.
yeah, I should have quoted him instead. Sorry about that. It actually would have made more sense. Too late now
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Because their intent didn't quite deliver- haste is damn near always the stat you wanna pump to make your build work. It hasn't become less important, it's become more. There's no variety among the primary stats at all- you build stamina and the other primary that directly relates to your skills. The game even locks you into that by only allowing gear you can wear to contain those two primary stats.
The only variety you can have is still in secondary stats, and now there's pretty much only variety there as a techicality. Haste reigns supreme without a lot of competition.
Haste right now is a very important stat for many specs but it has been greatly devalued because of its stat weight.
It takes a lot more points of Haste to get any meaningful benefit out of it.
@SBFord was complaining about her Blood DK but right now for the stat weight for Strength is 50% more than Haste and Stamina is 50% more than Strength. Which means you need twice as much Haste compared to Stamina for the Haste to just equal the value of Stamina.
Im not sure why I need to explain stat weights but here we are.
Haste may "reign supreme" again in the final raid tier but right now anyone stacking Haste is a fool.
It's still called for in any build. As Bill mentioned, the issue is with itemization. Quest rewards leveling up err heavily towards mastery and versatility, which just aren't as effective as haste. Since so many mechanics include building resources and expending them, recharging your core skills to build and discharge those resources is paramount. Haste reigned supreme this entire time; there is no "again." People have reported 330 being the iLvl they hit when they started feeling like they were "catching back up." They weren't talking about stacking any other secondary stat to do it.
The power curve is off, and quest rewards include sub-par secondary stats for the most part.
EDIT- I forgot to mention the GCD places even more importance on Haste, because Haste reduces it.
Called for in ANY build?
Uh, no. Not by a long shot. This is unfortunately a problem when going to a new expansion with vast changes to stats like this: people think that what was important is still important currently and spread misinformation.
Some specs like Wind Walker, Beast Mastery and Frost DK Haste is their worst stat. And there are specs like Subtlety, Affliction and Guardian where Haste is second worst.
Also, my Vengeance DH is item level 339 and I am most definitely not "catching back up". Currently leveling my Monk to replace my DH.
Congrats, you named like the only builds out of approximately 35 specs that don't contain Haste as on of the most important stats. The overwhelming majority need to focus on stacking Haste. That hasn't changed with BfA. Point stands that the itemization from quests is terrible for Haste, the majority of builds need it, and most of us are transitioning out of gear that stacked it. All of that adds up to a crumby feeling in-game when you ding or replace a piece of gear because you have to bump the primary stats, and you lose like 50 Haste because you can't find a BfA piece that has any on it.
EDIT- I will concede that my hyperbole went too far on the issue. But it is still in the majority of builds and, thus, affects the majority of players in BfA, forcing them to face an issue of replacing gear and losing that stat because the drops seem to skew to other secondary stats. It makes their specs objectively weaker while leveling, unfortunately.
Comments
Now try making a game that is good in ANY one area and i might care.
Blizzard can't make classes very good,combat is laughable MOST of the time and skills are usually meaningless,like the outcome is automatic no matter what you do.
Blizzard has and ALWAYS will design the game to pull you along on a leash and on a very specific path.
Their ONLY goal the last couple years has been to try and get newer players through the game faster so they are able to buy the newer expansions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The Vanilla comments are funny, WoW wasn't hard then at all.
Lol, sad as hell. So confused.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
The power curve is off, and quest rewards include sub-par secondary stats for the most part.
EDIT- I forgot to mention the GCD places even more importance on Haste, because Haste reduces it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Granted, it's not 10M but...c'mon. It's a fourteen year old game. There's not another decade-and-a-half old game that's pulling anything remotely close to what WoW does -- MMO or otherwise.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
BfA has some amazing (but small) stories and the level design is out of this world. But it also has a lot of problems that need to be addressed and that, if they're not, will have a seriously negative impact on the sub numbers.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Isn't FFXIV it's next best competitor? I don't like WoW's cartoony childish art style and toxic player base. Am subbed to FFXIV. I just don't think it's correct to say WoW had no competition.
You think Final Fantasy XIV isn't cartoony and childish?
Have you ever looked at a goobbue, a moogle, a lalafell and the many other ridiculous things in FFXIV?
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I am the Cannon Fodder God
"LOL. We tricked you. Its not horde vs alliance. This is (Azshara or/and Old Gods) expansion, now time to work together!"
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
EDIT- I will concede that my hyperbole went too far on the issue. But it is still in the majority of builds and, thus, affects the majority of players in BfA, forcing them to face an issue of replacing gear and losing that stat because the drops seem to skew to other secondary stats. It makes their specs objectively weaker while leveling, unfortunately.