Vanguard had an issue with groups leaving a summoning class camped out in a safe spot near a Named Boss. When the named popped the summoner would summon the group in to get the name before anyone else could get there - thus monopolizing the spawn. I really think they need to design the game in a way where this cannot happen.
In some games it's pretty easy to find a safe spot to logout in. Other games I can logout when it's safe but if I log back in I might be in the middle of a dynamic even, sometimes with no other players around. Some of my alts can handle it some can't. Such timing is actually rare but it's fun when it happens and even better when I'm able to solo the event. So it can be done and in a fun way.
Project Gorgon, I can even follow a large group through a dungeon and get some nice xp and drops.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I feel it was a different time especially considering the loss of levels leaving me in an area where I can be killed and then have the difficulty to recover my corpse would not be something they themselves would wish upon me or themselves. People were truly different those heydays of gaming and I sorely miss these types of considerations players had for each other.
To add to your story about friends evacuating you to safety -- I actually remember petitioning GMs to help by logging out group members who fell asleep in dungeons. So, it wasn't just the players who were friendly and actively helpful.
The internet community as a whole had an entirely different feel in those days. That's why I have huge doubts about the expectations with which some of these games are approaching their development.
I feel it was a different time especially considering the loss of levels leaving me in an area where I can be killed and then have the difficulty to recover my corpse would not be something they themselves would wish upon me or themselves. People were truly different those heydays of gaming and I sorely miss these types of considerations players had for each other.
To add to your story about friends evacuating you to safety -- I actually remember petitioning GMs to help by logging out group members who fell asleep in dungeons. So, it wasn't just the players who were friendly and actively helpful.
The internet community as a whole had an entirely different feel in those days. That's why I have huge doubts about the expectations with which some of these games are approaching their development.
I think the same people are there. At least a segment of them who still play these games.
In a game that is aimed at large masses of people you are going to find all sort of people who really aren't going to be part of the community or who might even be a bit toxic.
But if a game is not aimed at the masses, is aimed at a smaller portion of players then it's very possible that the more positive player base will not be diluted.
The question is whether or not there are enough of those older players who are interested in Pantheon (or similar old school games).
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's made for when you go LD so the group doesn't have to wait in the same spot. To think it might work for days or hours shows a complete misunderstanding of the system.
It's made for when you go LD so the group doesn't have to wait in the same spot. To think it might work for days or hours shows a complete misunderstanding of the system.
Developer's intent is a distant second to player's ingenuity for a system that is open to exploiting.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I am having my doubts about this thinking that you can transfer how you play table-top to a mmorpg. That you always play with the same people and mostly with people from your real life - Pantheon tomorrow at 7 then? Well that is not how I ever played computer games. In eq I did always find a bunch of ingame friends to chitterchatter with and a tendency to seek to group with, but never in such a tight way.. I really like that I can interact and meet random people in a mmorpg, and the diversity that brings. Table-top and board games I enjoy for what it can and the social parts, but in online computer games I seek something different.
It's made for when you go LD so the group doesn't have to wait in the same spot. To think it might work for days or hours shows a complete misunderstanding of the system.
Perhaps you would share where you read or saw that?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Pretty sure they basically intend for there to be safe areas to camp out, so when you return you are not insta killed. Handy for people wanting to play till the end of the session before camping rather than soend the last 30 min or more trying to get out.
Beyond this, pretty sure they intend to have a caravan system like VG had, where you can be thethered to a group of friends, given the option of logging in wherever they have travelled to since you last logged.
I assume htis also means you can't just join a new group halfway across the world and then logout for a minute to fast travel there? Do you have to be in a group for X minutes before you're allowed to logout and port there? Or do you have to logout for X minutes before being able to port?
It'll be abused if not careful.
In a couple MMO's I've played there was a feature to port somewhere after logged out for an hour or two. Is it like that I wonder.
During everquest's "mature" years it added a feature so group members who logged out would still stay in the group, unless the leader disbanded them. There was no feature to port to the group, however. Some MMO's allow you to keep some of the experience gained by your group while logged out.
Many times playing everquest I had to go afk for something. These features to tether you to the group are somewhat like what I always wanted to see in an MMO: pause. It's hard to pause an MMO, like you can pause a single player game. Pause operates similarly to what's being suggested in this thread. Basically, you're in a group and hit the Away ability. All players have it. You instantly become like players in everquest who're using feign death. It can't fail, unlike everquest. Maybe you become a spirit, tethered to your group members, able to resurrect wherever they're when you return? You won't get experience from the group while away. Now hte question remains. How could this be designed properly so it's not exploited to circumvent the gameplay elements? This could reduce the danger--and consequences--in the game, two things very important to me. Another concern is the disruption to the group while away. YOu might be the one piece to the puzzle allowing the group to function. For example, you might be the priest. If you're away, there's no healer. The group may disband or falter for a length of time. How the designers choose to solve this is varied. Multi-classing abilities? A power factor applied to the group? An ability to port somewhere else? NPC mercenaries like in Everquest?
One problem with convenience features is they're vulnerable to crossing the line and essentially destroying WHY some of us we play these MMO's. I liked the original Everquest at least partially because of the danger and consequences. I have to restate this. How far will Pantheon go to ensure convenience?
Remember that games are like problems. We somewhat play them because we're trying to solve those probelms. Problems like death, being separated from your group, being lost in a zone, not being able to find your corpse, not being able to invite group members if they're not visible and others are, whilst sometimes painful, paradoxically might make us come together socially and enjoy the search for better answers. We're always figuring out how to make a game more convenient or more economic or more solvent to our character--precisely because we've felt frustration or pain in our adventure. We're simply trying to improve our lot in life but virtually. Removing these sorts of frustration problems from the game design might change it fundamentally. It'll still be a game, but it'll play lightly on our mind. Is that good or bad? Maybe it depends who you ask.
In a weird quirk, it may be the sloppiness and poor design of earlier
MMOs like WoW which helped band people together. There are no shortage
of in-jokes and great stories in WoW which extend from terrible voice
acting or bugs.
The famous Blood Plague Incident,
for instance all stemmed from a silly coding bug. It was one of the
most famous and fondly remembered events in WoW’s history and it
wouldn’t have been possible if the game was better made. Instead, it
became an event which tied the community together and gave the WoW
culture yet another common thread to hold together the community quilt.
“A lot of these games have a tendancy to hold your hand too much, and
they lose that sense of adventure and exploration and cooperating with
other people because you’re in a dangerous environment,” Andrews said.
“A lot of the early MMOs had that and I’d like to see that come back.”
It's made for when you go LD so the group doesn't have to wait in the same spot. To think it might work for days or hours shows a complete misunderstanding of the system.
Perhaps you would share where you read or saw that?
Agreed. Would be very helpful if there was more elaboration somewhere on exactly what was meant by the FAQ where it states,
"there will also be ways for players to keep their group together even if some members of the group can play longer than others or at different times." - Pantheon FAQ"
Might prevent erroneous speculation by potential players.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't even know what they were attempting to say there. It doesn't make any sense in a realistic context. The only thing that would make this possible is AI ghosts of people who are missing from a group.
I think what they MEANT to say was that it will always be possible to replace someone. Poor choice of words on their part.
I don't even know what they were attempting to say there. It doesn't make any sense in a realistic context. The only thing that would make this possible is AI ghosts of people who are missing from a group.
I think what they MEANT to say was that it will always be possible to replace someone. Poor choice of words on their part.
Like former group members haunting you as you level with others
@Hawkaya its been many years so cannot remember the VG system well, but i believe to set up a caravan system you needed to be grouped and within close vicinity of each other and i think there was a cooldown period of either how long after setting up it became active, or how long you had to be logged out to use it. There was certainly some limitations, but i think it was rather buggy too like most things
I question people's desire to play together with friends only even on general level. Almost every game these days have features that 'lets you play with your friends' even at the cost of game mechanics and design.
It would be interesting to see some statistics about people's gaming behavior. Of course it's possible that companies have collected data that proves me wrong and kids today really stick together in tight communities but that's really strange to an old fossil like myself.
As an old fossil there are 3 of us who play together frequently, going from game to game. We form the core of a group with enough space to grab new people to meet
As an old fossil there are 3 of us who play together frequently, going from game to game. We form the core of a group with enough space to grab new people to meet
But are you always online at the same time so that none of you are left behind? And if that happens, do you insists the game have a mechanic that allows you for example to level down to one of your friends level or will you simply help him/her to catch up?
I have also RL friends playing same games occasionally but we are not obsessed to stick together. We all play on our own pace and if we happen to be in same content we might help each others or group up with few strangers.
We have tried to play side by side many years ago but each of us have jobs and families so waiting for the others to show up at the same time is practically impossible.
As an old fossil there are 3 of us who play together frequently, going from game to game. We form the core of a group with enough space to grab new people to meet
But are you always online at the same time so that none of you are left behind? And if that happens, do you insists the game have a mechanic that allows you for example to level down to one of your friends level or will you simply help him/her to catch up?
I have also RL friends playing same games occasionally but we are not obsessed to stick together. We all play on our own pace and if we happen to be in same content we might help each others or group up with few strangers.
We have tried to play side by side many years ago but each of us have jobs and families so waiting for the others to show up at the same time is practically impossible.
Last game I tried to group with friends in was ESO at launch and we couldnt do it. Despite our best efforts and people playing alts we just couldn't keep our questlines and levels in sync due to varying timezones and playing times.
By the mid 30s I found myself well behind most, and when Zenimax announced the next release was going to increase the PVE progression which in turn would affect the PVP curve
I had no interest soloing behind my friends, especially as back then you had to play through the other two realms in gimp mode first before you could then access the new content.
My friends lasted a few months more, but burned out climbing that PVE hill as like me, their goal was to quickly clear the PVE content to then focus entirely on the RVR.
Once it became clear Zenimax was going to continue added PVE content which would then unbalance RVR it became pointless, was basically Trials of Atlantis all over again.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If Calling a character becomes the normal 'expected' behavior when replacing a group member, this functionality needs to not be limited to a single class. Otherwise, it will require too many characters to be the Summoner class. It's alright to give this to the Summoner class. Making it exclusive to the Summoner class can create issues and limit the functionality.
It never seemed to cause any problems in EQ, and the spell was around from Kunark onwards.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
If Calling a character becomes the normal 'expected' behavior when replacing a group member, this functionality needs to not be limited to a single class. Otherwise, it will require too many characters to be the Summoner class. It's alright to give this to the Summoner class. Making it exclusive to the Summoner class can create issues and limit the functionality.
It never seemed to cause any problems in EQ, and the spell was around from Kunark onwards.
Call of the Hero also wasn't a common, every-day-group kind of thing. That's the point. If it *does* become SOP for every group, then it will be like complete heal and clerics in EQ1. Since VR insists that they are improving the mistakes made by old games, and they want to make the game group friendly, they need to implement something to help groups find replacement players and get them into dangerous places easily. Creating (or recreating) this functionality and limiting it to a single class just repeats the Complete Heal problem, just with a different class.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It's common knowledge from a couple years back when they talked about the caravan system. I believe it was from a stream where brad mentioned it if I remember correctly? I'm not going to dig it up...but I know they have specifically referenced going LD while grouped in relation to the caravan system. I'm sure anyone who cares enough can dig around and find it. Most of the streams have a post stream breakdown of the info on the forum.
I remember playing eq1 and having safe spots in almost any dungeon you could camp out in and return safely the next day. I think people are really over thinking this and worrying about something that is nothing.
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The internet community as a whole had an entirely different feel in those days. That's why I have huge doubts about the expectations with which some of these games are approaching their development.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Well that is not how I ever played computer games. In eq I did always find a bunch of ingame friends to chitterchatter with and a tendency to seek to group with, but never in such a tight way.. I really like that I can interact and meet random people in a mmorpg, and the diversity that brings. Table-top and board games I enjoy for what it can and the social parts, but in online computer games I seek something different.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It'll be abused if not careful.
In a couple MMO's I've played there was a feature to port somewhere after logged out for an hour or two. Is it like that I wonder.
During everquest's "mature" years it added a feature so group members who logged out would still stay in the group, unless the leader disbanded them. There was no feature to port to the group, however. Some MMO's allow you to keep some of the experience gained by your group while logged out.
Many times playing everquest I had to go afk for something. These features to tether you to the group are somewhat like what I always wanted to see in an MMO: pause. It's hard to pause an MMO, like you can pause a single player game. Pause operates similarly to what's being suggested in this thread. Basically, you're in a group and hit the Away ability. All players have it. You instantly become like players in everquest who're using feign death. It can't fail, unlike everquest. Maybe you become a spirit, tethered to your group members, able to resurrect wherever they're when you return? You won't get experience from the group while away. Now hte question remains. How could this be designed properly so it's not exploited to circumvent the gameplay elements? This could reduce the danger--and consequences--in the game, two things very important to me. Another concern is the disruption to the group while away. YOu might be the one piece to the puzzle allowing the group to function. For example, you might be the priest. If you're away, there's no healer. The group may disband or falter for a length of time. How the designers choose to solve this is varied. Multi-classing abilities? A power factor applied to the group? An ability to port somewhere else? NPC mercenaries like in Everquest?
One problem with convenience features is they're vulnerable to crossing the line and essentially destroying WHY some of us we play these MMO's. I liked the original Everquest at least partially because of the danger and consequences. I have to restate this. How far will Pantheon go to ensure convenience?
Remember that games are like problems. We somewhat play them because we're trying to solve those probelms. Problems like death, being separated from your group, being lost in a zone, not being able to find your corpse, not being able to invite group members if they're not visible and others are, whilst sometimes painful, paradoxically might make us come together socially and enjoy the search for better answers. We're always figuring out how to make a game more convenient or more economic or more solvent to our character--precisely because we've felt frustration or pain in our adventure. We're simply trying to improve our lot in life but virtually. Removing these sorts of frustration problems from the game design might change it fundamentally. It'll still be a game, but it'll play lightly on our mind. Is that good or bad? Maybe it depends who you ask.
An article related to this topic of solving the myriad of probelms in the world and as a consequence coming together and creating strong memories:
https://slashlfg.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/the-importance-of-mmo-history-and-why-developer-hand-holding-is-killing-it-penny-arcade-com/
In a weird quirk, it may be the sloppiness and poor design of earlier MMOs like WoW which helped band people together. There are no shortage of in-jokes and great stories in WoW which extend from terrible voice acting or bugs.
The famous Blood Plague Incident, for instance all stemmed from a silly coding bug. It was one of the most famous and fondly remembered events in WoW’s history and it wouldn’t have been possible if the game was better made. Instead, it became an event which tied the community together and gave the WoW culture yet another common thread to hold together the community quilt.
“A lot of these games have a tendancy to hold your hand too much, and they lose that sense of adventure and exploration and cooperating with other people because you’re in a dangerous environment,” Andrews said. “A lot of the early MMOs had that and I’d like to see that come back.”
"there will also be ways for players to keep their group together even if some members of the group can play longer than others or at different times." - Pantheon FAQ"
Might prevent erroneous speculation by potential players.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't even know what they were attempting to say there. It doesn't make any sense in a realistic context. The only thing that would make this possible is AI ghosts of people who are missing from a group.
I think what they MEANT to say was that it will always be possible to replace someone. Poor choice of words on their part.
It would be interesting to see some statistics about people's gaming behavior. Of course it's possible that companies have collected data that proves me wrong and kids today really stick together in tight communities but that's really strange to an old fossil like myself.
I have also RL friends playing same games occasionally but we are not obsessed to stick together. We all play on our own pace and if we happen to be in same content we might help each others or group up with few strangers.
We have tried to play side by side many years ago but each of us have jobs and families so waiting for the others to show up at the same time is practically impossible.
By the mid 30s I found myself well behind most, and when Zenimax announced the next release was going to increase the PVE progression which in turn would affect the PVP curve
I had no interest soloing behind my friends, especially as back then you had to play through the other two realms in gimp mode first before you could then access the new content.
My friends lasted a few months more, but burned out climbing that PVE hill as like me, their goal was to quickly clear the PVE content to then focus entirely on the RVR.
Once it became clear Zenimax was going to continue added PVE content which would then unbalance RVR it became pointless, was basically Trials of Atlantis all over again.
None of us have ever gone back.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The good old days of having a Necro corpse drag a magician (me) halfway through Vex Thal so we could pick up where we left off the previous night.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I'm not going to dig it up...but I know they have specifically referenced going LD while grouped in relation to the caravan system. I'm sure anyone who cares enough can dig around and find it. Most of the streams have a post stream breakdown of the info on the forum.