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The end of Hardcore Gamers
deadtrack
Member UncommonPosts: 57
History:
Many of the older games where initially designed to last for years of progression without many barriers. Asheron's Call was one of the best examples of this in history. It was not feasible to obtain the maximum level, stats, etc upon release. It was designed properly so new content would expand allow for faster growth, but at a managed level that wasn't manipulated.
It truly allowed an "Infinite progression system"
Today's system are not designed this way. They increase the level caps, instant level, put in a gear treadmill and straight out manipulate everything. The gear becomes obsolete, new hard caps are quickly reached and it's a very faulty design.
One of the worst aspects is: Direct Manipulation
Black Desert Online is one of the worst offenders of this, but I have seen it in many games. It can be done in a variety of ways. BDO simply makes a level 60 for example cost 60 Million exp.
For simple math lets say that takes 1,000 hours.
I saw a flashback video on a game that stated it took months of hardcore grinding to get level 50, and now it's less than 6 hours.
That is NOT how the games where designed many years ago. They where worth investing a lot of time into, but today there is a huge risk in a lot of games that everything you do will simply be wiped away in a few updates.
Many of the older games where initially designed to last for years of progression without many barriers. Asheron's Call was one of the best examples of this in history. It was not feasible to obtain the maximum level, stats, etc upon release. It was designed properly so new content would expand allow for faster growth, but at a managed level that wasn't manipulated.
It truly allowed an "Infinite progression system"
Today's system are not designed this way. They increase the level caps, instant level, put in a gear treadmill and straight out manipulate everything. The gear becomes obsolete, new hard caps are quickly reached and it's a very faulty design.
One of the worst aspects is: Direct Manipulation
Black Desert Online is one of the worst offenders of this, but I have seen it in many games. It can be done in a variety of ways. BDO simply makes a level 60 for example cost 60 Million exp.
For simple math lets say that takes 1,000 hours.
- In a well designed natural system updates, new equipment/creatures etc would make it easier to obtain. So a player might be able to achieve that in 950 hours instead. This is a normal part of game updates and age
- Manipulation: What BDO has done on MANY occasions is not only release higher content, but change the game rules so it now takes 20 Million Exp in addition to the updates. Then a few updates later change it to 5 million.
I saw a flashback video on a game that stated it took months of hardcore grinding to get level 50, and now it's less than 6 hours.
That is NOT how the games where designed many years ago. They where worth investing a lot of time into, but today there is a huge risk in a lot of games that everything you do will simply be wiped away in a few updates.
Comments
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Time Investiture =/= Hardcore, It is just an archaic belief that players will take a while to clear your content. This inherently always fails, so now you're penalizing those that don't play 8+ hrs a day. Gaming is not a job (well, to be correct, it isn't as long as you aren't a professional gamer)
Risk does indeed equal hardcore (to me). I will agree that risk is basically gone from most games. You occasionally get an annoying death penalty or a big repair cost, but that is it.
Just to be fair, the inherent problem is that since most games are:
A) Level Based
C) Themepark
You want your players to purchase your new content/expansion. Thus obsoleting out gear so the new stuff is enticing AND making leveling easier so they can reach that content, is well...good business sense.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
If you said a game was hardcore PVP and full loot, I would have a pretty good idea of what that environment would be.
If you said a hardcore gamer just reached level (x) it would be the proper use as well.
I don't agree with people trying to claim they can't compete or any no lifer statements. If the game is designed correctly it's the players responsibility to play at their own pace, enjoy the game, and accept their ranking/placement in the game.
If I was rank 12,490 in an MMO by level or gear score, I would be fine with that. As long as it's a fair environment. (No hacking, cheats, bots, cash shop adv etc)
Players should be aware and fight back against games doing this if they want to protect the effort put forth in these games. For those who prefer a quicker paced game there are plenty with level caps, faster leveling, etc. For those who want a long term investment MMO this should be sacred.
A true solid MMO can still have a life span of 5-20 years. It won't necessarily be outdated and older games often have more content as they have been in continual development for years.
The difficult and progression are 2 separate issues. I'm all for having tougher content where you're intended to die by harsh PVE environments. I'm all for challenge and minor set backs in death.
That can fully work in conjunction with a game that is designed to last 100,000 hours. With the proper scaling and formulas behind it this can be achieved. It's not a requirement to play for 1,000's of hours to enjoy the content or participate. The game should simply provide content for all levels.
A good example was Tibia's level 999 door. It was opened for years and certainly wasn't necessary. It was just a bonus for anyone able to achieve it. The same for the toughest raids in FF. They are not meant to be defeated by a large portion of the player base.
In a well constructed game you should be enjoying level 2 just as much as level 200.
You are not the only poster to ask why are they still not being made the same way, well when you chase a different, larger player base what the smaller one wants becomes redundant. Gaming companies chasing mobile customers were not looking to take on hardcore gamers, (or even gamers!) those guys are already playing.
Hardcore gamers were there from the first, but they were not the only player base and it is a category that can be misleading. I never expected MMOs to be as hard as what I demanded from shooters for example, indeed when I played my first MMO I was not convinced PvP should be in MMOs.
The history of MMO gaming has been companies chasing an ever larger player base, be it PC solo RPG fans, console solo RPG fans, mobile phone users who do not game. This is what has changed MMOs into a new genre and leads gaming down an every more easymode direction. Now you may well be asking, is that such a big problem, is easymode so bad?
Let me give you a sports example, what do you think the effect of the Olympics is on sport? It makes sport strive to be the best. That's what gaming can aspire to but it has become just a walk in the park...PING!
If it is a game in a stable full of hundreds of differing games, very feasible, as the company is not riding on this one game alone. I've heard "Dark Souls" (never played it myself) is supposed to be "the new standard" of difficult. I believe it sold quite well.
[On Topic]
What I think about when I see the term "Hardcore Gamer" is that person who dissects a game, figures the maximum effectiveness by numbers, and beats every game they play, never to play it again. There are always more games to dissect and play with the math on the horizon. The "fun" for them is figuring out nuts and bolts.
Therefor, hardcore gamers will always exist, by my definition
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR