You went way off track to a simple question. Is it an MMO?
I'll give one qualifier and leave the rest to others.
For me an MMO means you can run into anyone else from your server
in an open world and not just hubs and/or instances. That rules out games like POE and so many others listed as MMO's.
If there are people running around after I start the game, then it's an MMO.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If there are people running around after I start the game, then it's an MMO.
Do children count (as in the house you're logging in at?)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
@delete5230 ; I really love you dude. But this time I don't have the faintest idea of what on earth you talking about.
Can you just rephrase it a bit?
tbh this post flags up the significance of storytelling in general.
In our dreams, we all wish to be the central storyteller — the hero who crazies off into the Beyond and brings back succour for the crowd gathered round the fire.
But most times, this doesn't happen.
Most days, we are filled up with stories beyond our control ... like our DOG pees on our LEG ... or some farflung DREAM VACATION place on the horizon gets totalled by earthquake, tsunami — or zealots.
That leaves a gap in our lives.
Always, with great stories ... we can't put 'em down.
So why should BUMMER IRL klutz the deal?
It's here where immersive gameplay finds its home.
All the best games say ... hey, come pit your prowess against serious challenges ... and while you're at it, look in on a backdrop of IYF cinematic visuals.
If you're to be offered this kind of adventuring playground, it has to deliver on offering you some sense of power.
Those EVIL VILLAIN HEADS really do have to FLY OFF THOSE EVIL VILLAIN TORSOS superbcs you swung your MASSIVE WEAPON that way — or you will be left with that feeling you had when parents or friends cheated out on your CLEAR SUPREMACY OVER ALL THINGS by letting you win.
Script these kinda pulse-pounding moments together as a plot that offers choice ... maybe you have a winner.
Drop A-B-C storylines on people, they can get that tedium from their day job — and be paid for it.
Stumpiness & Unbridled Misery Masquerading as VIRTUE
Need an AI-Free Elf Names Generator to bring your next elven character to life? Why ... course you do, you darn fool!
Wow. This is hillarious. I cant resist. I must say it - LOLZ.
First of all. So thats what you do to make bazillion posts on MMORPG forum, you just talk about your friends and their pets. I see.
"I can't tell if this is cruel"
I'm more of a cat person, but even i can tell thats cruel. Dont tell me your friend tried to test spouse that way...
Title: "Is it an mmo? A simple test."
"back on target. How to tell if you have a hardy mmorpg"
Um, cant you decide what are you testing first?
1. Is an mmo? 2. Is it a mmorpg? 3. Is it a hardy mmorpg? See you have 3 questions already.
"Sit back and really ask yourself if I were a writer or a good story teller "Would I be able to compose my own personal story of my adventures" ??….. But it's important that it's truly your own."
Thats called roleplay.
"In other words, are you playing your "own story" or are developers writing the story for you ?"
Theres no book, movie, cartoon, game that can be YOUR OWN story, unless you actually made it by yourself for yourself.
"If the answer "YES" YOU HAVE A REAL MMORPG and not a scripted-developer-plays-the-game-for-you-on-line-game. "
If the answer "YES" then you just imagining it.
Theres just one way to know if the game is good (any game)... When you play it - you have fun, and wanna play more. When you away - you think about it.
You simply dont even think to ask yourself that question. It just didnt even cross your mind, because you dont need to, you already know that it is. But when you start thinking, checking, testing...that means its not.
Sigh.
P.S. "...Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after..."
When i try every game im looking for something special. And it really hurts me when i just cant play it. But even then i still found something small, tiny but amazing for me. I apperaciated to the people that made it .And glad that it exist, i found it. (*bows*)
Those are just an examples, there are more games with amazing music : D3, GW2 etc...
Being an "older gamer" who started on the first generation of MMO's, I will most certainly disagree with you. Vanilla WoW and EQ2 would most definitely get a resounding "NO" from me. From the moment I logged on to either of those games, my reaction was "What is this?" I enjoyed the stories in both, I had fun in both, but making it my own story? No. Both of those games held your hand the entire way. I was confused when I logged on to WoW the first time and couldn't just grind mobs to get enough XP to level up unlike the games that I was used to. UO, DAOC, EQ. I'm not saying that it was a bad thing. In DAOC, for instance, if I wanted a quest, I would have to go up to NPC's and "/task" to see if they had one, but they weren't mandatory.
Again, I'm not saying that post WoW games, and the way they tell their story are a bad thing, just different than what I was used to.
Massively Multiplayer, are there several hundred players running around. O (of course it's online!) R (Can i choose a role?) P (can I play this role in game) G (the most important question of all, since it's a "game", is it fun?)
Fixed. the term is massively multiplayer not massive and multiplayer which is something entirely different.
M (is it massive?) M (With a lot of people) O (of course it's online!) R (Can i choose a role?) P (can I play this role in game) G (the most important question of all, since it's a "game", is it fun?)
Yeah... you arent doing it right. You cant separate the first two letters in the acronym. It's not massive. Its "massively multiplayer". Nothing needs to be massive other than the player count.
Such a simple truth, yet so many struggle to accept it.
Toss in online and you have the entire definition of MMO, with absolutely no other qualifiers.
The only debatable points are how many players (100, 1000, 50000) does a game need to have and under what circumstance (single fight, lobby, zone, world) do they interact to be considered a MMO.
I would suggest that the "online" bit can be debated as well.
When you are online - fine no questions. What about when you are offline though? Do events in the world continue, 24/7, or - for all intents and purposes - does "nothing" happen. Is the "world" persistent or is "your experience of the world" which perists.
The most obvious example of "world persistence" is in pvp games that incorporate keeps (flags) which may be captured. You might log off with one side in control but log back in with another faction in charge. This is typically in pvp stuff.
In pve however - it depends. If "event" are instanced it won't matter: the dragon or whatever will be there when you turn up. It is your experience of the world that is persistent.
Pre-instance days however mobs spawned on a timer and once killed it might be days or a week before it might respawn. Miss the spawn miss the loot roll. The clock ran to world time not your time. And there is no shortage of people who dismiss games with "instancing" as "not proper mmos" and how instances diminishes the challenge etc.
Now me I just play games for fun and don't care! Some do however
The real question is how do you define the term "Massively" in MMORPG? Is it having the capacity to support 1000 concurrent players on a live game service? 100? 10?
You have MMORPGs and you have MO (Multiplayer Online). Both could be considered MMOs if the players online are always greater then "one". So the question should be, "What is an MMORPG?".
You have MMORPGs and you have MO (Multiplayer Online). Both could be considered MMOs if the players online are always greater then "one". So the question should be, "What is an MMORPG?".
The number of players needs to be more then some but less then many. Just wanted to clarify
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You have MMORPGs and you have MO (Multiplayer Online). Both could be considered MMOs if the players online are always greater then "one". So the question should be, "What is an MMORPG?".
In what world is 2 considered a massive quantity? You are WAY out of your element here if you can't even figure out what "massively multiplayer" means.
That is wrong too. If a server is hosting a thousand players all in separate 10 man instances, it is not an MMO. It is not about server capacity. Its "Massively Multiplayer". That LITERALLY stands for a massive amount of people sharing an experience together, not separated. Your definition means that any game with a bunch of people playing it at one time is an MMO. If a server is hosting a thousand games of chess its an MMO to you. That is by definition wrong.
That is wrong too. If a server is hosting a thousand players all in separate 10 man instances, it is not an MMO. It is not about server capacity. Its "Massively Multiplayer". That LITERALLY stands for a massive amount of people sharing an experience together, not separated. Your definition means that any game with a bunch of people playing it at one time is an MMO. If a server is hosting a thousand games of chess its an MMO to you. That is by definition wrong.
Yeah guess I should have been more specific. I agree that it does need to be a shared experience with everyone on the same server.
It's still about the maximum amount of people you can fit in the same shared game world on a server.
Then you get something like Destiny with a lobby town or Guildwars 1 with it's lobby towns. Everything but the town is instanced so I wouldn't really call them MMOs.
So I guess hundreds/thousands of people in the same non-instanced shared world.
( Just a side not but I'm not much of a fan of instances since I feel they diminish the MMO portion of the whole shared world thousands on the same server roots of the genre, like WoW did with it's dungeons. )
Even then Minecraft can have servers that support up to 800 people in the same world but most people wouldn't really call it a MMO because they are private servers not hosted by the company.
Then you have zone populations that overflow into additional instances like Guildwars 2 or City of Heroes did where over 100 people in the same zone would trigger a new instance of the zone.
Also any game with megaservers...
You can get really technical with it but if you are playing with 9 other people at the same time as opposed to thousands you can see my point about server capacity.
My main beef is that Battlefield had 64 player maps and nobody called those MMOs so it at the very least needs to be way more than 64 players in the same play space for me to consider it Massively Multiplayer. MMORPG was also coined by Ultima Online which had thousands of people on the same shared open world server which is really where I set my benchmark.
So I guess thousands of people in the same play space is much more accurate.
Hope that explains in more detail my position, thanks for the reply.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Comments
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
First of all. So thats what you do to make bazillion posts on MMORPG forum, you just talk about your friends and their pets. I see.
"I can't tell if this is cruel"
I'm more of a cat person, but even i can tell thats cruel. Dont tell me your friend tried to test spouse that way...
Title: "Is it an mmo? A simple test."
"back on target. How to tell if you have a hardy mmorpg"
Um, cant you decide what are you testing first?
1. Is an mmo?
2. Is it a mmorpg?
3. Is it a hardy mmorpg?
See you have 3 questions already.
"Sit back and really ask yourself if I were a writer or a good story teller "Would I be able to compose my own personal story of my adventures" ??….. But it's important that it's truly your own."
Thats called roleplay.
"In other words, are you playing your "own story" or are developers writing the story for you ?"
Theres no book, movie, cartoon, game that can be YOUR OWN story, unless you actually made it by yourself for yourself.
"If the answer "YES" YOU HAVE A REAL MMORPG and not a scripted-developer-plays-the-game-for-you-on-line-game. "
If the answer "YES" then you just imagining it.
Theres just one way to know if the game is good (any game)...
When you play it - you have fun, and wanna play more. When you away - you think about it.
You simply dont even think to ask yourself that question. It just didnt even cross your mind, because you dont need to, you already know that it is. But when you start thinking, checking, testing...that means its not.
Sigh.
P.S. "...Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after..."
When i try every game im looking for something special. And it really hurts me when i just cant play it. But even then i still found something small, tiny but amazing for me. I apperaciated to the people that made it .And glad that it exist, i found it. (*bows*)
Those are just an examples, there are more games with amazing music : D3, GW2 etc...
Again, I'm not saying that post WoW games, and the way they tell their story are a bad thing, just different than what I was used to.
When you are online - fine no questions. What about when you are offline though? Do events in the world continue, 24/7, or - for all intents and purposes - does "nothing" happen. Is the "world" persistent or is "your experience of the world" which perists.
The most obvious example of "world persistence" is in pvp games that incorporate keeps (flags) which may be captured. You might log off with one side in control but log back in with another faction in charge. This is typically in pvp stuff.
In pve however - it depends. If "event" are instanced it won't matter: the dragon or whatever will be there when you turn up. It is your experience of the world that is persistent.
Pre-instance days however mobs spawned on a timer and once killed it might be days or a week before it might respawn. Miss the spawn miss the loot roll. The clock ran to world time not your time. And there is no shortage of people who dismiss games with "instancing" as "not proper mmos" and how instances diminishes the challenge etc.
Now me I just play games for fun and don't care! Some do however
Sz
Let's party like it is 1863!
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
errr...ummm.
Well.......
It's like this.....
Oh fukkit
(clicks out of thread)
It's still about the maximum amount of people you can fit in the same shared game world on a server.
Then you get something like Destiny with a lobby town or Guildwars 1 with it's lobby towns. Everything but the town is instanced so I wouldn't really call them MMOs.
So I guess hundreds/thousands of people in the same non-instanced shared world.
( Just a side not but I'm not much of a fan of instances since I feel they diminish the MMO portion of the whole shared world thousands on the same server roots of the genre, like WoW did with it's dungeons. )
Even then Minecraft can have servers that support up to 800 people in the same world but most people wouldn't really call it a MMO because they are private servers not hosted by the company.
Then you have zone populations that overflow into additional instances like Guildwars 2 or City of Heroes did where over 100 people in the same zone would trigger a new instance of the zone.
Also any game with megaservers...
You can get really technical with it but if you are playing with 9 other people at the same time as opposed to thousands you can see my point about server capacity.
My main beef is that Battlefield had 64 player maps and nobody called those MMOs so it at the very least needs to be way more than 64 players in the same play space for me to consider it Massively Multiplayer. MMORPG was also coined by Ultima Online which had thousands of people on the same shared open world server which is really where I set my benchmark.
So I guess thousands of people in the same play space is much more accurate.
Hope that explains in more detail my position, thanks for the reply.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/