NCsoft should have checked to see CoH2 was being made! But I never blamed them that much these issues are always far more complex than they appear on the surface, you don't support a game for years then pull the plug without reason.
If they used the money that was given for COH for something else that's flat out stealing. What always amuses me about the COH shutdown was it didn't seem to make since. Now it kind of does if this is true.
Agree, what else are people expecting NCS to have done if this is true and they got rid of the developers of the game.
Was NCS meant to magic up a whole development house of people who have no idea how the game has been made and just magically be able to keep going to active development. It would have taken them alot of time playing catch up before active development could have continued even if they found this magic team. Meanwhile it would have been bleeding players while the game wasnt getting updates... how many are really going to pay a subscription for a game not in active development.
Also if true, you really cannot fault NCS for not waiting to fund the development of the second game another time after they surely lost a huge investment funding it the first.
I think this is important. It's important because it means we(I) need to soften my stance toward NCsoft. I swore off playing their games and if they truly gave Paragon Studios room to hang themselves then it was a business decision not a personal one. But we all knew Wildstar was garbage from day one. It's just sad that we lost a great game. I still haven't found a high quality MMO since then nor the great community. I really miss COH.
Rumors are not news and as such can not be taken a factual. That is not to say that the "story" is not based upon fact but then again, it probably is no where near the facts. Therefore, to speculate on rumor alone is a moot point and wasted effort.
Um, I have to wonder why NCSoft couldn't kill those companies but handle the servers themselves in some manner. So they were happy with the income on CoH but due to their work on a sequel they suddenly weren't? It seems more like punishment to the management of those companies than anything else.
In the end, NCSoft doesn't care about their western players. Screw em.
This is just a RUMOR so it doesn't have much credibility. If what was CLAIMED about Paragon Studios was true, where is the evidence?
Where's the financial statement showing money was being allocated for CoH2?
Where's the press announcement CoH2 was being developed, or even any credible RUMORS?
Does this fit NCSoft's pattern of behavior? Has NCSoft ever made a sequel for a game they acquired instead of games they developed in-house?
If Paragon Studios did what the RUMOR says they did, why wait until years later to reveal this tidbit of information and get all that bad PR? Where are the criminal charges?
Here's a RUMOR about exChua, he likes to go to conspiracy websites like InfoWars and copies their ideas. If you compared his RUMOR about misallocated money you'd find it was taken nearly verbetum from a Canadian newspaper 17 years ago about a shoe manufacturer with just the names switched.
This is a RUMOR, I don't have to prove it! I can just make it up completely!
Yeah, real/true or not, any "rumor" coming from an anonymous source, no matter how much motivation there might be for remaining anonymous, can only be taken as a possibility at best. Frankly, I find it rather hard to believe that a whole studio would take money for one project and work on something totally different, as if they'd never get caught. Apparently there have been some terrible shenanigans happen in the industry, but if this one is true it's really shocking.
So paragon shot themselves in the foot lying to NCSoft. Dumb asses. I wonder who the jibblet was who made the decision to take advantage of NCSoft and use their money on something other than what it was meant for.
Either post this shit under your own real name, or continue to suffer in silence you craven bunch of Muppets.
Why should they? Also, unless you're willing to throw yourself and resources on the line along with them as an ally then even more so, why should they? It's some stranger letting you know they think you're being lied to. They obviously have no love for NC either so it's not like they're apologizing for them. Believe whatever you want or not, or file it away and watch how industry actors behave.
Even if what he says is true NC still shoulders the majority of the blame for being such a poor manager. And if what he says is true it is testament about the lack of integrity rampant in this industry.
NC should be embarrassed. Their incompetence and dishonesty is shameful. EA should be embarrassed for lying and saying they learned a lesson in SW:BF2 and then telling Belgium to fuck off. I'm not going to criticize someone for not going head to head with billion dollar companies as a martyr.
To actually make some sort of change happen in the industry. If these people are fucking things up they need to be called out. If there really is a conspiracy to blackball anyone who doesn't keep this omerta level of silence like they're part of fucking cosa nostra, that needs to be called out as well. Continuing to stay silent, refusing to stand up for themselves, and trying to do damage via hearsay and rumor only helps this pathetic state of affairs continue.
There have always been and there will always been good, legitimate reasons for anonymous sources. Not everyone wants to be Snowden and they shouldn't have to self-destruct to get investigations started, especially about minor (in the grand scheme of things) corporate shenanigans.
If good, investigative journalism actually existed in the gaming press, this should be the start of the story, not the end that everyone will be easily distracted away from in a couple of weeks. When stories mature and get investigated that is where eventually, non-anonymous verified facts emerge.
Maybe you should give All the President's Men a re-watch. That whole thing got started with an anonymous source.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Either post this shit under your own real name, or continue to suffer in silence you craven bunch of Muppets.
Why should they? Also, unless you're willing to throw yourself and resources on the line along with them as an ally then even more so, why should they? It's some stranger letting you know they think you're being lied to. They obviously have no love for NC either so it's not like they're apologizing for them. Believe whatever you want or not, or file it away and watch how industry actors behave.
Even if what he says is true NC still shoulders the majority of the blame for being such a poor manager. And if what he says is true it is testament about the lack of integrity rampant in this industry.
NC should be embarrassed. Their incompetence and dishonesty is shameful. EA should be embarrassed for lying and saying they learned a lesson in SW:BF2 and then telling Belgium to fuck off. I'm not going to criticize someone for not going head to head with billion dollar companies as a martyr.
To actually make some sort of change happen in the industry. If these people are fucking things up they need to be called out. If there really is a conspiracy to blackball anyone who doesn't keep this omerta level of silence like they're part of fucking cosa nostra, that needs to be called out as well. Continuing to stay silent, refusing to stand up for themselves, and trying to do damage via hearsay and rumor only helps this pathetic state of affairs continue.
There have always been and there will always been good, legitimate reasons for anonymous sources. Not everyone wants to be Snowden and they shouldn't have to self-destruct to get investigations started, especially about minor (in the grand scheme of things) corporate shenanigans.
If good, investigative journalism actually existed in the gaming press, this should be the start of the story, not the end that everyone will be easily distracted away from in a couple of weeks. When stories mature and get investigated that is where eventually, non-anonymous verified facts emerge.
Maybe you should give All the President's Men a re-watch. That whole thing got started with an anonymous source.
And that makes the point....it ( Watergate) did not get started with an anonymous source...it got started by the people getting arrested.
An anonymous source was never used as a sole source for anything other than a starting point. Never used alone for anything.
The "deepthroat" anonymous source was used to verify info they came up with in other ways and to "point" them (the reporters) in certain directions to where the story and other sources were.
Journalists used to need 3 verified sources for a story to run...not just use an "anonymous" source alone, to write, or talk about it on any type of news. We are the witnesses of the death of journalism...which should really make people afraid.
Journalism, is supposed to be a safe guard for the people, not used as more tools for politicians and others in power to deceive people.
Now we have stories with one anonymous source posted as news stories, sometimes, called rumors...but people still take them as fact. No wonder journalism is fast losing any and all trust from people.
Soon it will be about as high as the trust people have in government... which is what they are becoming anyways...just journalist talking heads for other talking heads in government.
The thing that gets me is that everyone agrees CoH wasn't a making big money. So why would they make another CoH game? Stick it in maintenance mode and leave it. There is nothing logical there. Nothing to explain why despite poor performance they thought a sequel would be justified.
And then what happened to the unrelated IP that the money was supposedly going into? Are you telling me they went to the trouble of funneling money into a secret project and left it? If you're going to that effort just make CoH2
Either post this shit under your own real name, or continue to suffer in silence you craven bunch of Muppets.
Why should they? Also, unless you're willing to throw yourself and resources on the line along with them as an ally then even more so, why should they? It's some stranger letting you know they think you're being lied to. They obviously have no love for NC either so it's not like they're apologizing for them. Believe whatever you want or not, or file it away and watch how industry actors behave.
Even if what he says is true NC still shoulders the majority of the blame for being such a poor manager. And if what he says is true it is testament about the lack of integrity rampant in this industry.
NC should be embarrassed. Their incompetence and dishonesty is shameful. EA should be embarrassed for lying and saying they learned a lesson in SW:BF2 and then telling Belgium to fuck off. I'm not going to criticize someone for not going head to head with billion dollar companies as a martyr.
To actually make some sort of change happen in the industry. If these people are fucking things up they need to be called out. If there really is a conspiracy to blackball anyone who doesn't keep this omerta level of silence like they're part of fucking cosa nostra, that needs to be called out as well. Continuing to stay silent, refusing to stand up for themselves, and trying to do damage via hearsay and rumor only helps this pathetic state of affairs continue.
There have always been and there will always been good, legitimate reasons for anonymous sources. Not everyone wants to be Snowden and they shouldn't have to self-destruct to get investigations started, especially about minor (in the grand scheme of things) corporate shenanigans.
If good, investigative journalism actually existed in the gaming press, this should be the start of the story, not the end that everyone will be easily distracted away from in a couple of weeks. When stories mature and get investigated that is where eventually, non-anonymous verified facts emerge.
Maybe you should give All the President's Men a re-watch. That whole thing got started with an anonymous source.
And that makes the point....it ( Watergate) did not get started with an anonymous source...it got started by the people getting arrested.
Just like this didn't get started with an anonymous source - it started with 2 games and a studio shutting down.
And just like I said, this should be the start, not the end of the story. On that, we agree.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Either post this shit under your own real name, or continue to suffer in silence you craven bunch of Muppets.
Why should they? Also, unless you're willing to throw yourself and resources on the line along with them as an ally then even more so, why should they? It's some stranger letting you know they think you're being lied to. They obviously have no love for NC either so it's not like they're apologizing for them. Believe whatever you want or not, or file it away and watch how industry actors behave.
Even if what he says is true NC still shoulders the majority of the blame for being such a poor manager. And if what he says is true it is testament about the lack of integrity rampant in this industry.
NC should be embarrassed. Their incompetence and dishonesty is shameful. EA should be embarrassed for lying and saying they learned a lesson in SW:BF2 and then telling Belgium to fuck off. I'm not going to criticize someone for not going head to head with billion dollar companies as a martyr.
To actually make some sort of change happen in the industry. If these people are fucking things up they need to be called out. If there really is a conspiracy to blackball anyone who doesn't keep this omerta level of silence like they're part of fucking cosa nostra, that needs to be called out as well. Continuing to stay silent, refusing to stand up for themselves, and trying to do damage via hearsay and rumor only helps this pathetic state of affairs continue.
There have always been and there will always been good, legitimate reasons for anonymous sources. Not everyone wants to be Snowden and they shouldn't have to self-destruct to get investigations started, especially about minor (in the grand scheme of things) corporate shenanigans.
If good, investigative journalism actually existed in the gaming press, this should be the start of the story, not the end that everyone will be easily distracted away from in a couple of weeks. When stories mature and get investigated that is where eventually, non-anonymous verified facts emerge.
Maybe you should give All the President's Men a re-watch. That whole thing got started with an anonymous source.
With newspapers and such, there is a vetting process to make sure that the source is who they say they are and that they are believable. Has either been done here?
I'll make a prediction, the next big WoW scale MMO is going to come from a few people in a garage that knows the Unreal engine and C++ like the back of their hand, and shortly after you will see MMO dev after MMO dev shut down.
You lost me here and I wonder if you should have even included it. You made your points, without evidence, but they weren't unbelievable. But then you had to add that nonsensical assertion.
Pretty much line up with how NCSoft have acted over the years. They cut Paragon a massive amount of slack with CoH. It was never a big earner and the studio did have a fair amount of issues as far as organization. But i did honestly thought it was a good but not enough thing and not a "you pissed in my cereal" thing. The later is way more justified and in some ways make more sense. Especially as there was rumors of things like that going back to the early days of CoH.
So i can belive this, in fact it makes a bit to much sense.
It doesn't absolve NCSoft one bit. Both EA and NC throw big money at studios with a "hands-off approach" and then nuke them when it goes bad. They should be managing studios better. Obviously being hands-off hasn't kept the bullshit corporate designs out of gaming so maybe they should start "parenting" properly.
NCSoft, and pretty much every other publisher treats their customers and users like shit.
Also, nice to see someone post how subscription based games add huge churn and time sinks for the sole purpose to slow players down to keep sub money rolling in. Predatory practices existed before and aren't going away after loot crates are gone.
I am going to say no you don't want publishers having more hands on when games are being made. How many times have we seen publishers do just that and force games out before they were ready because they wanted their investments back, or have parts of the game removed because it will take longer to finish the game? Should a publisher check in from time to time or give a hard deadline sometimes, yeah they should, but I would never want a publisher making decisions on everything the game has or doesn't have.
I made the exact same comments several years ago about CoH and received death threats.....I know employees at NCSoft in South Korea and here in Austin where I live.
Not a single word of this so called rumor is false...hate the messenger all you want, but Paragon was in shambles..they forced Jack Emmert out made him look like the bad guy then started working on their own love child as a cover for pocketing most of the exorbitant amount NCsoft gave them for CoH 2.
Really?
Taking NCsoft's money to work on a game their studio was ordered to work on and working on another game instead and they DIDN'T expect to get caught doing so? Even if the devs at Paragon Studios attempted this I would have expected NCsoft to fire the lot of them rather than lay them off. This should have tarnished a lot of names and been big news and yet this is the first I'm hearing of it.
Unless you worked at Paragon Studios and/or were involved in this personally, then I think you've been fed a load of bull and you didn't bother to reason it out. This rumor probably got started by just a couple of pissed off people and it's just now going around again because some troll wants to rile people up.
Now, if this rumor really is true then it is going to require a significant amount of actual evidence to prove it. If you know people involved in this personally then have them come forward to confirm it. If there is no real evidence to verify that this is not just a rumor then lets drop the issue here and stop wasting our time with a story that won't produce anything useful.
Post edited by Blaze_Rocker on
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
Anonymous sources could be right, they could be wrong, whatever they share should get people talking though and when taken seriously, investigated further.
I think a lot of the negativity here when it comes to the source is simply coming from the idea that Paragon were the "good" guys who got shafted by the "evil" NCSoft and now that idea gets challenged. The source might be right, we don't know and there was never a logical reason given for the shutdown of CoX.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You can blame social media or just media in general now days, but I tend not to believe any anonymous source. Suddenly every has one or is one. Doesn't mean there is no truth to it and it doens't mean there is. That is left up to the reader to decide for themselves.
If what is said fits what a person wants to hear then they will believe it. If it doesn't then they probably won't. Myself, I never liked either game so don't care, but in general I have a tendency to not believe rumors unless evidence comes out to show otherwise.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Honestly what difference does it make at this point? They are both done and there is nothing that will change that. Maybe we need to start crying about SWG again? /sigh
Either post this shit under your own real name, or continue to suffer in silence you craven bunch of Muppets.
Agree..i am so sick and tired of this "anonymous" sources being used for "truth" and "the real story" now-a-days.
So much BS. The slow death of any, and all, journalism.
The slow death of journalism because journalists are doing journalism the way they always have?
Anonymous sources are a thing because stories exist that could not be reported any other way.
What makes a good journalist is not that they eschew anonymous sources, but that they corroborate and vet their sources.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
I'm still inclined to believe that CoX was simply not that profitable. The reason it feels that way is the overly complicated F2P system introduced. It's existence implies that the sub model wasn't working well, and its implementation must not have helped draw many new players.
I am guessing its related, this is a comment by Arin Robinson ex developer of carbine studios commenting on another ex developer in this video about the death of wildstar, it sounds exactly as this article says.
Sorry, but the modern mainstream press (gaming and otherwise) just doesn't have the credibility to get away with using anonymous sources anymore. If you can't provide a name or any evidence to back up the statements made by a 'source', then the 'story' is bullshit.
That being said, at least this site clearly marked it as a rumor. Polygon, IGN, or Kotaku probably would've tried to pass it off as fact.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
This Rumor serves the same purpose as attributing bad weather to anger on the part of the Volcano god. It answers a question many of us want answered. But it also leaves you feeling like maybe it's not the real answer.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Comments
Agree, what else are people expecting NCS to have done if this is true and they got rid of the developers of the game.
Was NCS meant to magic up a whole development house of people who have no idea how the game has been made and just magically be able to keep going to active development. It would have taken them alot of time playing catch up before active development could have continued even if they found this magic team. Meanwhile it would have been bleeding players while the game wasnt getting updates... how many are really going to pay a subscription for a game not in active development.
Also if true, you really cannot fault NCS for not waiting to fund the development of the second game another time after they surely lost a huge investment funding it the first.
Let's party like it is 1863!
In the end, NCSoft doesn't care about their western players. Screw em.
Where's the financial statement showing money was being allocated for CoH2?
Where's the press announcement CoH2 was being developed, or even any credible RUMORS?
Does this fit NCSoft's pattern of behavior? Has NCSoft ever made a sequel for a game they acquired instead of games they developed in-house?
If Paragon Studios did what the RUMOR says they did, why wait until years later to reveal this tidbit of information and get all that bad PR? Where are the criminal charges?
Here's a RUMOR about exChua, he likes to go to conspiracy websites like InfoWars and copies their ideas. If you compared his RUMOR about misallocated money you'd find it was taken nearly verbetum from a Canadian newspaper 17 years ago about a shoe manufacturer with just the names switched.
This is a RUMOR, I don't have to prove it! I can just make it up completely!
If good, investigative journalism actually existed in the gaming press, this should be the start of the story, not the end that everyone will be easily distracted away from in a couple of weeks. When stories mature and get investigated that is where eventually, non-anonymous verified facts emerge.
Maybe you should give All the President's Men a re-watch. That whole thing got started with an anonymous source.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
An anonymous source was never used as a sole source for anything other than a starting point. Never used alone for anything.
The "deepthroat" anonymous source was used to verify info they came up with in other ways and to "point" them (the reporters) in certain directions to where the story and other sources were.
Journalists used to need 3 verified sources for a story to run...not just use an "anonymous" source alone, to write, or talk about it on any type of news. We are the witnesses of the death of journalism...which should really make people afraid.
Journalism, is supposed to be a safe guard for the people, not used as more tools for politicians and others in power to deceive people.
Now we have stories with one anonymous source posted as news stories, sometimes, called rumors...but people still take them as fact. No wonder journalism is fast losing any and all trust from people.
Soon it will be about as high as the trust people have in government... which is what they are becoming anyways...just journalist talking heads for other talking heads in government.
And then what happened to the unrelated IP that the money was supposedly going into? Are you telling me they went to the trouble of funneling money into a secret project and left it? If you're going to that effort just make CoH2
And just like I said, this should be the start, not the end of the story. On that, we agree.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I am going to say no you don't want publishers having more hands on when games are being made. How many times have we seen publishers do just that and force games out before they were ready because they wanted their investments back, or have parts of the game removed because it will take longer to finish the game? Should a publisher check in from time to time or give a hard deadline sometimes, yeah they should, but I would never want a publisher making decisions on everything the game has or doesn't have.
Really?
Taking NCsoft's money to work on a game their studio was ordered to work on and working on another game instead and they DIDN'T expect to get caught doing so? Even if the devs at Paragon Studios attempted this I would have expected NCsoft to fire the lot of them rather than lay them off. This should have tarnished a lot of names and been big news and yet this is the first I'm hearing of it.
Unless you worked at Paragon Studios and/or were involved in this personally, then I think you've been fed a load of bull and you didn't bother to reason it out. This rumor probably got started by just a couple of pissed off people and it's just now going around again because some troll wants to rile people up.
Now, if this rumor really is true then it is going to require a significant amount of actual evidence to prove it. If you know people involved in this personally then have them come forward to confirm it. If there is no real evidence to verify that this is not just a rumor then lets drop the issue here and stop wasting our time with a story that won't produce anything useful.
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
I think a lot of the negativity here when it comes to the source is simply coming from the idea that Paragon were the "good" guys who got shafted by the "evil" NCSoft and now that idea gets challenged. The source might be right, we don't know and there was never a logical reason given for the shutdown of CoX.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If what is said fits what a person wants to hear then they will believe it. If it doesn't then they probably won't. Myself, I never liked either game so don't care, but in general I have a tendency to not believe rumors unless evidence comes out to show otherwise.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
The slow death of journalism because journalists are doing journalism the way they always have?
Anonymous sources are a thing because stories exist that could not be reported any other way.
What makes a good journalist is not that they eschew anonymous sources, but that they corroborate and vet their sources.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
That being said, at least this site clearly marked it as a rumor. Polygon, IGN, or Kotaku probably would've tried to pass it off as fact.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests