We all know the type of person who would run/do exploits given the opportunity. Best to just ignore those gamers and they'll eventually go away imho. If you even acknowledge them they'll continue to act the fool.
In the early days of online games, I played one called Chain of Command that had some really flagrant cheats that innocent players could accidentally trigger and sometimes did. Players shouldn't be banned for something like that without any intent to cheat.
Some things are unclear as to whether they're a cheat or the intended trick that players are supposed to figure out as a way to beat content. Once something like that has been known to the company for a while without them fixing it or even claiming it's a bug, it can become reasonable to think it's working as intended and you're supposed to use the trick.
In the early days of online games, I played one called Chain of Command that had some really flagrant cheats that innocent players could accidentally trigger and sometimes did. Players shouldn't be banned for something like that without any intent to cheat.
Some things are unclear as to whether they're a cheat or the intended trick that players are supposed to figure out as a way to beat content. Once something like that has been known to the company for a while without them fixing it or even claiming it's a bug, it can become reasonable to think it's working as intended and you're supposed to use the trick.
Or, if they're an AAA rated game, they'll wait a month or so and round up as many undesirables as they can while working with devs to fix the issue, then just do a massive ban wave and wipe their hands clean of the situation. That's how a professional would deal with such gamers.
What do I think? I don't trust Cryptic anymore just like SBI, really bad for the Censorship, the censorship, and I have many issues regarding these bans on others accounts for what I feel is their fault for leaving the bug there in the first place.
1.) Not everyone reads Reddit, or Forum posts to know that news about an exploit was posted, this should have been put on a notice in the game.
2.) The notice isn't even that good of one doesn't explain the actual exploit or what it did so players knew not to do it as it was simply part of the game for example a certain skill that shouldn't be used due to the exploit / bug that caused it to freeze and do no damage or whatever it was.
3.) Even those who did read the Forums and saw this and wanted to inqure about it so they didn't accidently do it or get into trouble couldn't do it due to moderator censorship as can be seen on both their announcements
4.) Users should not be punished over developer mistakes which they are not sure if it's an exploit or not knowing something is not supposed to be there and doing it is one thing however if the same issue was on PC and put into console maybe someone who didn't know actually thought developers mean't to bring that over to the console version?
ARC games seems really bad as a publisher, I was just looking on Steam and saw that Cryptic is the developers and ARC is the publisher I would highly recommend Cryptic finding a real publisher.
I remember when the Skiing exploit was found in the first Tribes game. Essentially you could rush across the field at 5x the normal speed while carrying the enemy flag to victory. It went on for so long that the developers turned it into a feature for the following games. So there is credence in the assertion that if you leave something alone while knowing it exists, the community will begin to treat it as a feature in of itself.
Though I have not ever used something that I've known to be an exploit that will give me an unfair advantage. Never used a bot aside from general curiosity in how they operate and have done everything that I am proud of by hand. There is only one time where I remember using something that obviously wasn't intended. It was for a reputation grind in WoW for a several expansion old organization. Normally it would have taken months and months of logging in each day to do repetitive tasks, though a specific quest allowed you to kill mobs repeatedly for reputation. It took a long time still, but I could do it in a couple days versus several months. In addition, the reward was just for a transmog hat with no stats on it.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Some people, Maegeddo is one of them, are whiny little children, screaming EVERYONE banned, game the over it wont survive, blah blah blah. well your are wrong, not only will we survive, we will thrive without cheaters, we always have and always will.
The perma ban came on a YouTuber who posted how to get by the exploit to those of his channel willing to pay him, read the letter, its whiners whining because they have sand in their ginas.
Cheat, get banned, u were warned once, and only those who continue to use the exploit got banned, those who posted how to get around the first fix got perma banned AFTER they were warned if they continued they would get banned per the ToS. Tell the truth, lying scumbags. Cheaters suck period, stop complaining and go on to another game please , we dont need your type in Neverwinter, the market was flooded with 100's of millions of AD, that would not have been there without these cheaters, Neverwinter and their Dev have been fighting a up hill battle with cheaters, from gold spammers(gone btw thanks to cryptic, and the game better for it.), to these recent cheaters(again thanks for banning cheaters, it makes honest players happier). You are messing up the game for those of us playing it honestly.
Welcome to the boards!
Totally agree, could I recommend paragraphs for your next post?
This wasn't a bug that just happened, you had to do something specific to cause a consumable item to not be consumed. It was pretty obvious that it wasn't intended and people did it knowing this. I doubt anyone got permabanned, most people seemed to get a 3 day ban and the currency they got removed. The problem wasn't that people didn't know it was wrong, it was that people didn't think the company would do anything about it. In future, people will think twice before exploiting bugs to gain an unfair advantage.
It would be nice if the article could be updated to explain what the exploit was all about. It's hard to judge what happened in any way without knowing that, and it seems like something that could be described pretty easily.
This game still suffers from health/economy crippling exploits?
I'll never forget the exploit revealed after launch (known during beta to select people) where you could input a negative value into the marketplace for auctions and create currency.. the currency you buy with real money (can't remember the name).
They never rolled back the game nor did anything to remove the currency from all accounts that exploited; just banned a handful of people and left it at that.
From that moment on I knew things were in terrible hands.
And all these years later, there's still exploits going on. I'm not surprised.
This wasn't a bug that just happened, you had to do something specific to cause a consumable item to not be consumed. It was pretty obvious that it wasn't intended and people did it knowing this. I doubt anyone got permabanned, most people seemed to get a 3 day ban and the currency they got removed. The problem wasn't that people didn't know it was wrong, it was that people didn't think the company would do anything about it. In future, people will think twice before exploiting bugs to gain an unfair advantage.
The thing is they knew about the exploit, to all you ppl saying we got what we deserved because we used a glitch, can u say u never glitches ECC or fbi? Sit down, I didn't think so. Saying u don't use exploits, seriously?
In the early days of online games, I played one called Chain of Command that had some really flagrant cheats that innocent players could accidentally trigger and sometimes did. Players shouldn't be banned for something like that without any intent to cheat.
Some things are unclear as to whether they're a cheat or the intended trick that players are supposed to figure out as a way to beat content. Once something like that has been known to the company for a while without them fixing it or even claiming it's a bug, it can become reasonable to think it's working as intended and you're supposed to use the trick.
Not sure it's the case here, but I'm sure that's why Blizzard didn't remove equipment after the Warfront iLvl req fiasco. Players had no good way to gauge whether or not that was a bug, because doing so would necessitate being intimately familiar with Blizz's design philosophy for that content. No gamers truly had that insight.
The technical steps are not that important in this case I believe, because they don't argue about the exploit, but the ban. It was a bug which was fixed pretty soon after it got into the (PC) game with the update, but they have a release pacing of PC first, and they were also careless - so when the update later arrived to consoles, it still had the bug, and console players jumped on it right away, since they knew about how to exploit it from the PC side (the patch notes, forum posts, etc.) Cryptic added a hotfix on consoles too, but turned out they still can exploit the bug, and they did so until the proper fix arrived later.
If you check the responses on the web, they are never about the exploit itself, they knew exactly that it is not working how it should, they knew there's a fix coming, they knew that Cryptic promised monitoring during that time with the possibility of banhammer, etc. The uproar is about the ban, since they think it is a too severe response, simply due to the numbers. The players have expected a rollback at the worst case scenario, since "everyone" used the bug, and they surely won't ban all of their players, right? That's why you see defense arguments are never about the innocence or the exploit itself, but like: it was their fault for buggy, weak coding; it was their fault for letting the players know about it (with the PC fix); it was their fault for letting it go on for two weeks, etc.
The technical steps are not that important in this case I believe, because they don't argue about the exploit, but the ban.
IMO, the technical steps needed to exploit something are always the key factor because they speak to the intent.
Bugs that cause an exploit to happen when you're just going about normal game play are one type of thing and players almost never get discipline for those. But when they require you to do a series of abnormal steps in order to exploit that's a whole different level of exploit that shows clear intent to exploit.
And then there's publishing how-to walkthroughs and videos of the exploit. That is still another level of asshattery that always deserves harsh penalties.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
i just got ban from neverwinter but funny is i didn't use that exploit once i did solo with no party like 10 posters from start of ravenoft mod and all in regular normal play but still i got ban think they ban all people who did any poster runn
The thing is they knew about the exploit, to all you ppl saying we got what we deserved because we used a glitch, can u say u never glitches ECC or fbi? Sit down, I didn't think so. Saying u don't use exploits, seriously?
"Because if an exploit is live for that long, it turns into a feature." This is the line that kills me. An exploit doesn't magically turn into a feature. Unless the company explicitly says, "Hey, this is working as intended;" an exploit is an exploit. If it's live for that long, it just means that the company either has A. more pressing issues to get to with their game; servers on fire, etc. or B. their priority is messed up and they are trying to figure out ways to get the money out of players pockets instead of fixing a flaw in their system. Either way, either option still doesn't magically give an exploit legitimacy.
If you go out of your way to use the exploit, you knew what you were getting into. Play legit, these things don't happen to you.
Could someone please explain what the bug was, or give a link to an explanation, or something? Without seeing that, everything is hypothetical and vague.
Could someone please explain what the bug was, or give a link to an explanation, or something? Without seeing that, everything is hypothetical and vague.
So, reading up on it the hunts would let you consume tarot cards to increase the challenge and rewards significantly; which then the exploit itself would let you do the hunt without consuming the cards, and bugging the monsters to stay in one place. So they would get the loot, not consume anything, and bug the mobs so that the increased challenge doesn't exist.
Could someone please explain what the bug was, or give a link to an explanation, or something? Without seeing that, everything is hypothetical and vague.
User “avenfell” already hinted in the patch notes thread on Arcgames that this was not your usual everyday bug. Players could indeed re-run Hunts infinitely without their Tarokka Cards being consumed. The exploit worked like this:
Enter the Hunt with a team of two or more players
One player (A) initiates the Hunt
The other(s) kill themselves, get placed outside Madame Eva’s tent, and go to the first location of the target
Player A adds cards, but does not leave the tent
The other(s) kill the hunt, which is now bugged and stays in one place
Everyone gets loot, and the party leader their cards back
Repeat
No way you could do it accidentally.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Could someone please explain what the bug was, or give a link to an explanation, or something? Without seeing that, everything is hypothetical and vague.
User “avenfell” already hinted in the patch notes thread on Arcgames that this was not your usual everyday bug. Players could indeed re-run Hunts infinitely without their Tarokka Cards being consumed. The exploit worked like this:
Enter the Hunt with a team of two or more players
One player (A) initiates the Hunt
The other(s) kill themselves, get placed outside Madame Eva’s tent, and go to the first location of the target
Player A adds cards, but does not leave the tent
The other(s) kill the hunt, which is now bugged and stays in one place
Everyone gets loot, and the party leader their cards back
Repeat
No way you could do it accidentally.
I could see that happening accidentally once in a great while, which could be how it was discovered in the first place. But you're right that the same players doing that repeatedly is neither an accident nor something that players could reasonably believe was not an exploit.
I could see that happening accidentally once in a great while, which could be how it was discovered in the first place. But you're right that the same players doing that repeatedly is neither an accident nor something that players could reasonably believe was not an exploit.
That's why I said before, in this case the actual technical steps aren't really important... Especially if you add the delay between the PC and the console update. Sure, the discovery might have been accidental even (I don't know for a fact how it happened), on the PC. Then it was documented, fixed, etc.
This actual case is much closer to those western launches in the recent years, when they import cheap old games (sometimes as "early access" lol) and players try out all the exploits they found on the web, on youtube, etc. which were in the game at the korean launch.
As it was said several times in this thread as well (with examples of cable TV, etc.) it was not some accidental discovery, with innocent bystander participants, and that's why the argue is more about the ban than the exploit. The exactly knew about the bug and how to exploit it, so when the consoles got the update, they tested it right away to see if it's there or not, and then used it happily.
Since I don't play on consoles, I don't really care about the outcome, my interest in this is more "academic", since it is a good measure of how the general playerbase changed over the years (to the worse, might I add). If you remember the duping in RaiderZ, it was the very same event (game started here, players used a known-from-korea method to dupe millions because it stayed in the code, bans - except in RaiderZ there was a rollback too). And you know what the cheaters said? They just laughed their heads off, since they knew the counter-steps are inevitable, so they laundered the stuff already through several accounts, etc. They accepted that they were caught doing something and got the well-deserved punishment.
Compare that to this loud "drama" of instant gratification peeps... the best was maybe that streamer guy on youtube saying Cryptic should "man up", admitting they have crappy devs, and saying that until they fix it, the exploit is "on the house, be our guests, we were the ones screwing it up". I listened it two times, but not the slightest irony there, he means it. Hard to believe there's a loud crowd out there now thinking that clear exploits can be rightfully used if it is used "by everyone", as if that would justify anything.
I could see that happening accidentally once in a great while, which could be how it was discovered in the first place. But you're right that the same players doing that repeatedly is neither an accident nor something that players could reasonably believe was not an exploit.
Compare that to this loud "drama" of instant gratification peeps... the best was maybe that streamer guy on youtube saying Cryptic should "man up", admitting they have crappy devs, and saying that until they fix it, the exploit is "on the house, be our guests, we were the ones screwing it up". I listened it two times, but not the slightest irony there, he means it. Hard to believe there's a loud crowd out there now thinking that clear exploits can be rightfully used if it is used "by everyone", as if that would justify anything.
Sounds to me like that youtuber would also believe that if they leave the nintendo switch case open at best buy, it should be "on the house, because best buy employees left the case open." This is why some people should not have a following; because they influence people to believe along the lines of their own entitled stupidity.
Comments
In the early days of online games, I played one called Chain of Command that had some really flagrant cheats that innocent players could accidentally trigger and sometimes did. Players shouldn't be banned for something like that without any intent to cheat.
Some things are unclear as to whether they're a cheat or the intended trick that players are supposed to figure out as a way to beat content. Once something like that has been known to the company for a while without them fixing it or even claiming it's a bug, it can become reasonable to think it's working as intended and you're supposed to use the trick.
1.) Not everyone reads Reddit, or Forum posts to know that news about an exploit was posted, this should have been put on a notice in the game.
2.) The notice isn't even that good of one doesn't explain the actual exploit or what it did so players knew not to do it as it was simply part of the game for example a certain skill that shouldn't be used due to the exploit / bug that caused it to freeze and do no damage or whatever it was.
3.) Even those who did read the Forums and saw this and wanted to inqure about it so they didn't accidently do it or get into trouble couldn't do it due to moderator censorship as can be seen on both their announcements
4.) Users should not be punished over developer mistakes which they are not sure if it's an exploit or not knowing something is not supposed to be there and doing it is one thing however if the same issue was on PC and put into console maybe someone who didn't know actually thought developers mean't to bring that over to the console version?
ARC games seems really bad as a publisher, I was just looking on Steam and saw that Cryptic is the developers and ARC is the publisher I would highly recommend Cryptic finding a real publisher.
Though I have not ever used something that I've known to be an exploit that will give me an unfair advantage. Never used a bot aside from general curiosity in how they operate and have done everything that I am proud of by hand. There is only one time where I remember using something that obviously wasn't intended. It was for a reputation grind in WoW for a several expansion old organization. Normally it would have taken months and months of logging in each day to do repetitive tasks, though a specific quest allowed you to kill mobs repeatedly for reputation. It took a long time still, but I could do it in a couple days versus several months. In addition, the reward was just for a transmog hat with no stats on it.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Totally agree, could I recommend paragraphs for your next post?
I'll never forget the exploit revealed after launch (known during beta to select people) where you could input a negative value into the marketplace for auctions and create currency.. the currency you buy with real money (can't remember the name).
They never rolled back the game nor did anything to remove the currency from all accounts that exploited; just banned a handful of people and left it at that.
From that moment on I knew things were in terrible hands.
And all these years later, there's still exploits going on. I'm not surprised.
It was a bug which was fixed pretty soon after it got into the (PC) game with the update, but they have a release pacing of PC first, and they were also careless - so when the update later arrived to consoles, it still had the bug, and console players jumped on it right away, since they knew about how to exploit it from the PC side (the patch notes, forum posts, etc.)
Cryptic added a hotfix on consoles too, but turned out they still can exploit the bug, and they did so until the proper fix arrived later.
If you check the responses on the web, they are never about the exploit itself, they knew exactly that it is not working how it should, they knew there's a fix coming, they knew that Cryptic promised monitoring during that time with the possibility of banhammer, etc.
The uproar is about the ban, since they think it is a too severe response, simply due to the numbers. The players have expected a rollback at the worst case scenario, since "everyone" used the bug, and they surely won't ban all of their players, right?
That's why you see defense arguments are never about the innocence or the exploit itself, but like: it was their fault for buggy, weak coding; it was their fault for letting the players know about it (with the PC fix); it was their fault for letting it go on for two weeks, etc.
Bugs that cause an exploit to happen when you're just going about normal game play are one type of thing and players almost never get discipline for those. But when they require you to do a series of abnormal steps in order to exploit that's a whole different level of exploit that shows clear intent to exploit.
And then there's publishing how-to walkthroughs and videos of the exploit. That is still another level of asshattery that always deserves harsh penalties.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
relax u will get banned too patience
This is the line that kills me. An exploit doesn't magically turn into a feature. Unless the company explicitly says, "Hey, this is working as intended;" an exploit is an exploit. If it's live for that long, it just means that the company either has A. more pressing issues to get to with their game; servers on fire, etc. or B. their priority is messed up and they are trying to figure out ways to get the money out of players pockets instead of fixing a flaw in their system. Either way, either option still doesn't magically give an exploit legitimacy.
If you go out of your way to use the exploit, you knew what you were getting into. Play legit, these things don't happen to you.
From: https://blog.nwo-uncensored.com/heres-what-that-hunt-exploit-in-module-14-was-all-about/
User “avenfell” already hinted in the patch notes thread on Arcgames that this was not your usual everyday bug. Players could indeed re-run Hunts infinitely without their Tarokka Cards being consumed. The exploit worked like this:
No way you could do it accidentally.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Especially if you add the delay between the PC and the console update. Sure, the discovery might have been accidental even (I don't know for a fact how it happened), on the PC.
Then it was documented, fixed, etc.
This actual case is much closer to those western launches in the recent years, when they import cheap old games (sometimes as "early access" lol) and players try out all the exploits they found on the web, on youtube, etc. which were in the game at the korean launch.
As it was said several times in this thread as well (with examples of cable TV, etc.) it was not some accidental discovery, with innocent bystander participants, and that's why the argue is more about the ban than the exploit. The exactly knew about the bug and how to exploit it, so when the consoles got the update, they tested it right away to see if it's there or not, and then used it happily.
Since I don't play on consoles, I don't really care about the outcome, my interest in this is more "academic", since it is a good measure of how the general playerbase changed over the years (to the worse, might I add).
If you remember the duping in RaiderZ, it was the very same event (game started here, players used a known-from-korea method to dupe millions because it stayed in the code, bans - except in RaiderZ there was a rollback too). And you know what the cheaters said? They just laughed their heads off, since they knew the counter-steps are inevitable, so they laundered the stuff already through several accounts, etc. They accepted that they were caught doing something and got the well-deserved punishment.
Compare that to this loud "drama" of instant gratification peeps... the best was maybe that streamer guy on youtube saying Cryptic should "man up", admitting they have crappy devs, and saying that until they fix it, the exploit is "on the house, be our guests, we were the ones screwing it up". I listened it two times, but not the slightest irony there, he means it.
Hard to believe there's a loud crowd out there now thinking that clear exploits can be rightfully used if it is used "by everyone", as if that would justify anything.
Sounds to me like that youtuber would also believe that if they leave the nintendo switch case open at best buy, it should be "on the house, because best buy employees left the case open." This is why some people should not have a following; because they influence people to believe along the lines of their own entitled stupidity.