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Will Wow be the greatest mmorpg?
Valowlife
Member Posts: 73
Will wow be the greatest mmorpg or will the other mmorpgs cetch up with wow will just have to wait and see.
Comments
WoW is a game that everyone can sit down and play immediatly. But the game is in my opinion very one-sided. There is not much interest in the game lore and things like that. WoW is primarily a competitive game. The mentality of games like Counter Strike is carried over to WoW. Unlike many other MMO's.
At the end of the day, it's all about getting the biggest and best items. A repeated grind to achieve some goals, and once these have been achieved, newer and better items wait in the horizont.
You don't log in to WoW to hang around. You don't sit in an open field and chill with your friends. It's a race to lvl 60. There is no time for slacking. Of course you might be a casual gamer. Logging in to say "hi" and complete a few quests maybe. But all in all, WoW is very simple. Too simple if you ask me. Exploration and crafting and social aspects (not counting guilds) are not as primary as in other games. Of course in the guilds there is a certain bond between the members. But it's still all about raiding and items. You need each other. You use each other as a tool. Not for the social perspective in priority.
I remember when I first started playing SWG back in the good old days. I was leveling my scout camping. I was sitting alone on a field outside Coronet. People would pass by, say hello and maybe have a sit so we could have a friendly conversation. I am talking about 2 total strangers sitting down for a lovely chat. You don't see people do that in WoW.
This is the weakness of WoW. This will maybe be the matter that removes WoW from the top in the future. At least I hope so, since I consider WoW's success way to hyped and overrated.
It's not THAT great.
The only force of WoW is that the game is so well put together. Typical for Blizzard. But too bad they ignore some other aspects.
with the people running the show currently -- not a chance in hell.
nice graphics.
nice that they slowly fix problems with a class each successive patch.
nice that they took 9+ months to implement a pvp system that the BOX i pre-ordered stated was already a functioning part of the game, and then they implemented the ranking system as poorly as you possibly can. rank = i played more than you. not skill, not anything. 10 minute deserter time out when the queues are 45+ minutes = a total joke and doesn't even slow down the worthless honor farmers who abuse the very apparent flaws in the system.
any game that forces me to join a group of 40 people for half a day in order to maybe get one *good* item is a joke. after having been in a few mega guilds and listening to the *people* on vent/ts talk for hours on end, i just don't have the patience to deal with little kids and egomaniacs who think that cuz they have the 'uber sword of golem smashing and toenail clipping' that the world revolves around them.
wow promotes this joke by making the vast majority of *good* equipment unavailable to the casual player or the player that wants to be in a guild with a few (say 1-2 dozen) friends tops.
you can get things off faction vendors by mindlessly grind killing for a few weeks/months. i've killed so many mobs in winterspring that i can only pray some angry god nukes the place.
before any fanboi starts on his soapbox. keep in mind... i, and a lot of people, do not find a mindless grind to be any type of fun. it's boring. it's stupid. it's anathema to fun in every possible way.
wow could be a great game if they'd
1 - make instanced dungeons have mobs/difficulty based upon number of party members (like how cox does missions)
2 - have someone with opposable digits work on the pvp ranking systems and battlegrounds themselves
3 - fire every forum mod currently employed and hire people that don't praise the posts of the butt smoochers who smooch mod booties.
4 - hire ingame help staff that speaks english (or whatever language for the server's location), and doesn't immediately put up an away message, after pasting an answer that has NOTHING to do with the problem at hand.
5 - institute electro shock therapy to the devs so that whenever they read a fanboi post, they get a jolt to the mommy/daddy button as negative reinforcement that fanboi ideas are ALWAYS bad.
and then, it could be the greatest game out there.
i played beta and have played a great deal of the time (on and off) that it's been in retail. i've got a few 60s and other high levels on several servers. so this isn't someone that hasn't given the game a lot of chances and is someone who is a tad more mature than the 13 yr olds who seem to both work and play in the wow universe.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
the problem with what you say is that you need to look at the alternatives. If anyone could get the best gear by being a casual player then most people would have already gotten bored and left the game, as long as there is a goal to be completed people will still play. If there is no incentive for putting a lot of time to get the best gear, then no one would continue playing as everyone would have already reached the finish line.
The main thing people have to realize when you make suggestions is that what you think should be implemented would probably do worse than what is already implemented. The game is tailored for the masses and any suggestion that takes the game away from the masses is a game that loses money, any game that loses money is by definition a crappy game to game developers.
The vast majority of good items should be held away from casual players as it doesn't give an incentive for those who want to put in the time for the game. I got to lvl 60 wiht my orc hunter with blue and green items and i said to myself that this game is not worth the time to get epic items. A friend of mine is still playing 4 months after I quit and he has 28 epics. Would he still be paying the $15 if he got his epics 4 months earlier and everyone had epics to boot.
To answer the OP, i think WoW is currently viewed as the gold standard of MMO's, if it has 6 million subscribers or whatever it is, it is the best period. The more people play it, the better the game is period. Since the whole competition of video game making or anything done in the USA is to make money and since it makes the most money it's the best MMO.
For all the people who say the game sucks, the game is boring, the game is this, the game is that, it's tailored for dumb people, it looks like a cartoon etc. There are many more people criticizing the other games for being too complex, too time consuming, too competitive, too cutthroat, too XYZ. For all the problems WoW, more people find more problems with other games hence they don't play them.
Of course i'm ignoring the fact that the only reason I ever played WoW was because my friend was gonig to try it and this was after i decided WoW was not the game for me.
Anyway, I don't see any Blizzard MMORPG not being the gold standard unless they have an epileptic seizure while making a game. Also, Damian7, if blizzard came out with a new game, wouldn't you try it?
I'm pretty sure 90% of those who bash WoW would try a new blizzard game at one time or another due to their record of excellence in reference to their peers.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
the problem with what you say is that you need to look at the alternatives. If anyone could get the best gear by being a casual player then most people would have already gotten bored and left the game, as long as there is a goal to be completed people will still play. If there is no incentive for putting a lot of time to get the best gear, then no one would continue playing as everyone would have already reached the finish line.
I cannot understand why people equate the longevity of a game with a never-ending hunt for better gear..
What about, just having fun?
UO was not a gear game (back when), DAoC went the gear route, and we see how well that went. One of the first multi-player games i played, the original NWN on AOL, everyone had (basically) the same gear. All these were (for the most part) all great skill games.. Not how good your gear is. They have (had) all lasted for quite some time.
I cancelled my WoW account today for pretty much the same reasons Damian7 wrote. Once you hit 60 in WoW, its nothing but a repetative bore.. Be it grinding faction, MC, or imo the worst PvP system to date, until your eyes bleed.. Bah.
I dont pay $15 a month for a part time job.
Ok, this is the problem I have with you point of view. First of all any game that has content that is not accessible to all players is flawed. Now you can argue that it is accessible to everyone, but in truth it is not. Some people literally can't due to real life constraints and what not. Then you have people like me that simply abhor the whole raid rigmarole. Now smart game makers would make all content equally accessible to all players and all play styles. Don't try and tell me about "working for epics" or "raiders should get the best" or "privilege" because that is a concept that came here with the "UBER GUILDS", and that was brought here by Jeff Kaplan a.k.a Tigole and Furor who both came from EQ's mega uber guilds. Tigole was the guild leader of the most uberest EQ guild out there, they raided everything. If you want a little insight into the mindset of Jeff Kaplan (the lead designer for WOW now) and Furor take a look here;
http://www.fohguild.org/archive.php?page=9 (Furor post)
http://www.legacyofsteel.net/newspro/archives/arc27.html (Tigole post)
Now you say that there needs to always be goals for people to achieve or else they will just leave, and thats why casuals should not have access to the best items. Well think about that, if the content is only accessible to raiders then that means that for the other 92% of the player base there are no more goals once you reach 60. So Blizzard is in effect only providing incentive for %8 of their players, the ones that raid
Now to answer the OP's question, NO. With the path that WOW is taking thanks to the lead designer I doubt the game will last much longer, and by that I mean that a large majority of players will leave within the next year, which would mean that the vast majority of players will have left the game within 2 years of the game coming out. I know a lot of people have left and are leaving already. Think about this for a second, when was the last time Blizzard posted their total player base? Last I heard it was a few months back, and if the game were still increasing in size they would still be bragging about it.
Never.
Everquest 1 and Dark Age of Camelot were much better games.
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Betrayal At Krondor: "the prime example of how a CRPG should be done"
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Well......that depends
What are we using as the standard? If we are to judge its success based solely on subscribers then it of course wins the contest hands down. As far as whether or not it has the best gameplay or the most immersive environment, best pvp etc etc..... That is all really a matter of opinion. As far as its huge popularity goes the success of a game depends on more than concept.
Let us examine the timing of WOW in comparrison to its contemporaries (if you can call them that). WOW released at a time when the market was devoid of MMORPGs that had equal visual quality or ease of play. The games that it had to compete against were either dated (EQ, AO, DOAC, SWG) or simply bad games (EQ2 because of high system requirements and generally poor implementations of seemingly simple concepts. Guild Wars which is basically nothing like the MMOs we have seen in the past and cant really be compared to WOW because of it. Finally City of heroes which has no crafting or "loot" per se nor any of the other qualities of a traditional MMO besides the repetitive killing of mobs and mission completion).
Now given the fact that WOW has had no real competition since its inception and has enjoyed a monopoly in its market genre that its predecessors had to compete over I think to say WOW's success is due to the overall quality of the game itself is a bit presumptuous given its circumstances.
It will be interesting to see how it fares against the next generation of MMORPGs like Vanguard and WAR. How many people will choose WOW when it is the dated grandfather trying to keep the reigns of power in a new era that has moved past it.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
The Greatest MMORPG will change as games come out with better graphics, more enganging gameplay, more interaction with other players, and more robust worlds. No game will ever be the greatest game of all time.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
Next year when there will be bunch of new games coming out with far superior features/graphics compared to WoW, this game will start losing customers with a tremendous speed, just watch it.
No amount of expansions will change that, game will be out-dated, simple as that.
WoW will propably grow bigger but thats mostly because of Far-East (1,5 million players in China atm i think), i bet in the west (Europe and NA) its already losing popularity.
me too. i'm a whiner, complainer but im also a fanboi
obviously other companies will find ways to beat WOW to get blizz out of business
Erm EQ2 had flying gryphons at launch and in beta .And since it was released before WoW i would say the opposite is true.
What EQ2 took from WoW is the marker for quest mobs and rest exp.
Ok, this is the problem I have with you point of view. First of all any game that has content that is not accessible to all players is flawed. Now you can argue that it is accessible to everyone, but in truth it is not. Some people literally can't due to real life constraints and what not. Then you have people like me that simply abhor the whole raid rigmarole. Now smart game makers would make all content equally accessible to all players and all play styles. Don't try and tell me about "working for epics" or "raiders should get the best" or "privilege" because that is a concept that came here with the "UBER GUILDS", and that was brought here by Jeff Kaplan a.k.a Tigole and Furor who both came from EQ's mega uber guilds. Tigole was the guild leader of the most uberest EQ guild out there, they raided everything. If you want a little insight into the mindset of Jeff Kaplan (the lead designer for WOW now) and Furor take a look here;
http://www.fohguild.org/archive.php?page=9 (Furor post)
http://www.legacyofsteel.net/newspro/archives/arc27.html (Tigole post)
Now you say that there needs to always be goals for people to achieve or else they will just leave, and thats why casuals should not have access to the best items. Well think about that, if the content is only accessible to raiders then that means that for the other 92% of the player base there are no more goals once you reach 60. So Blizzard is in effect only providing incentive for %8 of their players, the ones that raid
Now to answer the OP's question, NO. With the path that WOW is taking thanks to the lead designer I doubt the game will last much longer, and by that I mean that a large majority of players will leave within the next year, which would mean that the vast majority of players will have left the game within 2 years of the game coming out. I know a lot of people have left and are leaving already. Think about this for a second, when was the last time Blizzard posted their total player base? Last I heard it was a few months back, and if the game were still increasing in size they would still be bragging about it.
With currently 6 million customers...........this game wont go away soon. They can stand to lose 75% of the player base and still have more customers than 99% of the mmorpg market. And well......they arent going to lose 75% of the player base any time soon no matter what direction they go in.
This is just one long arguement over which MMORPG is better. It really all depends upon the gamer. Most people don't just go out and buy console games because they are popular do they? They buy games they like. Obviously someone who plays sports games probably will not be interested at all in MMORPGs.
You can't say the WoW graphics suck, because they really don't. They are supposed to be cartoony because it is based upon the storyline of Warcraft. Yes Guild Wars graphics are better, and do you know why? You can only see people that are either in your party, in your guild hall, or in the same town you are in. You don't have a wandering community like WoW. I could do anything I wanted to at any time. Like on a PvP server you could be questing in a contested area, when out of know where you can collide with some of the opposing faction. It makes it more of a challenge that way.
You can't say that WoW is the best MMORPG because it lacks things that other games have. Maybe people want stronger graphics than WoW, or they like Star Wars. Maybe they love Final Fantasy ever since they grew up. The rating is upon the gamer. I think the only way you can choose what is better is how many people enjoy it. I vote for WoW because of the friends I have met on it. Look how many people play it.
Who asked you.
the community
FACT!
Well, for the 3rd generation of MMORPGs, it is indeed, 'Game Over, Man!'. Wow has won. Period. With 6+ million subscribers it has fundamentally finished the 3rd gen MMORPG design wars. All the rest EVE, EQ, EQ2, AO, DAoC, etc. are simply now slowly winding down with their hardcore player base slowly falling off.
This is *not* a rant at all on those other games; they were great games all, and they are better today than they were at launch. But, time moves on. WoW has put a period on this type of MMORPG.
Now, that is not to say that WoW is perfect, or anything close. There are some new ideas in WoW, but for the most part, it is just all the best features of the previous games in this generation pulled into one spot. It is, however, the very best at what it does. The sustained subscription numbers simply cannot be dismissed.
Bottom line is, NO. The other current MMORPGs will NOT be doing any sort of 'catch-up' to WoW. That time is past. It was past almost 2 years ago when EQ2 launched as such a smoking load of crap. And WoW launched as a huge, dynamic, living, expansive, exciting world.
So, until the first real 4th Generation MMORPG comes along, WoW (And Blizzards next effort 'World of Starcraft'???) rules unchallenged.
only one thing that spoils wow
the community
FACT!
and whiners
.
WoW had many new players to mmorpgs
like it hapend to EQ,DAoC,players try new games but they are allweys coming gack to their first,is their world.
Will pass many yers thil WoW have less than 4million players
1,5 years befour WoW release it stil is the best seling game in the store were i work
And in 1,5 years many games have been relised,and WoW kips biting records.
I dont see vanguard or warammer with the same buzz WoW had.
If any MMO loses %75 of it's player base in the first 2 years then it
is a dismal failure, regardless of how many it had to begin with or how
many are left. If you don't understand how that could be then you need to learn about economics. Heck even losing %50 of their player base would be a dismal failure. And where do you think those players would go? That's right, to other MMO's which means WOW would not have the most anymore.
And
like I said before, the last time I heard Blizzard update us on the
current number of subscribers was months ago when they hit 6
million...so what are they at now? Why don't they update us on the
current subscriber numbers? You see WOW subscribers kept rising mainly
due to opening up new markets, markets which other MMO's never had, but
they havent opened any new markets in a while and you also have not
heard them boast about any increase in subscriber base. Couple that
with the %8 of players raid figure that Blizzard told us about at the
last Blizzcon and the fact that since release, with a very few minor
exceptions, Blizzard has been releasing content solely for that %8.
Oh
WOW is not a bad game, but in it's current form it has no staying
power. It takes a casual 6 months (this is my guestimate of the
average time here, based on my 60 warrior and my other high lvl toons)
to level 1 character to 60. Now if only %8 of the player base actually
raids (let alone enjoys it), then that means that every 6 months you
have people deciding to "Reroll or Quit". Many will reroll at least
one character though most will already have a few alts and realize it's
all the same thing and once they hit 60 there is nothing for them.
If
your whole argument is that "WOW has 6 million customers" ....then give
it a little time. How long ago did Blizzard open up a new market? 3, 4
or 5 months ago?
Kaplan said that "the best items will always
only be available in raids...and that's a philisophical decision".
Which means that philisophically he is using the money from the %92 of
the player base to create content for the %8 that raids. If you have
not been paying attention to all the people that have left already
(some quite popular like Khazam from allakhazam) then no wonder you
havent noticed the trend. There are a lot of people I dont see posting
in the forums anymore, lots of people, and there isnt a day that goes
by when I don't see more "I quit" posts (well ok, maybe a few days),
and true enough, not everyone that says they will quit actually quit,
but then again only a small percentage of the player base actually use
the forums, far far far more people will just quit without posting
about it or telling many if any people.
All this is of course my
opinion, but it is what I see. I loved WOW from 1-59 (mostly), but I
just could'nt stand the fact that Tigole views non-raiders as second
class citizens (this truly is his point of view, and anyone that knew
him from the EQ days would agree), so I left WOW, and I will not be
going back, nor will I be purchasing anymore Blizzard products.
Whew...sorry for the long rant :P
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "