Same reason as genres. When I read "Open world RPG", I'm getting a chubby. Then, when I look deeper into it, it's not as "open world" as I thought. Why use any descriptive terms if they mean nothing? MMORPG, ARPG, tab targeting, simulation, action combat...
Maybe I'm just too old school where words actually used to mean things, before marketing got a hold of them? I'll shut up now...
Are there any "open world" Role playing games that don't have areas locked because of Story? Even Morrowind had that.
AC Odyssey as far as I can tell. It's as open world as I've ever experienced and it's gone RPG
For me it is pretty simple. It means no loading zones. Think of classic wow as far as the world goes. The only loading you had when going between the zones was when you changed continents or did instanced group content. This isn't really the best example but it is one most people would have seen. You didn't have a loading zone between every different area, you could seamlessly run from one area to another. That is the only thing that I judge the term open world on. I don't look at quest systems or any of the other things. I judge it off the seamless world. If I have to load into every single area then it is an very instanced world an I don't really consider that open world.
That's an interesting example! You could also "hoof it" to almost anywhere in the that Azeroth. I think of EQ as fairly "open world", though there were some "key locked" zones. But loading screens abounded.
Thanks for that insight
Everquest wasn't 'open world' it was more of an instanced game, one of the more common methods of escaping mob agro was to zone into the next area, there were even areas where it was such a common occurence that 'train to zone' being shouted would have everyone running to the zone boundary to get out of the way.
EQ is/was open world, no doubt about it. It most definitely was not instanced (zones != instances).
As far as the OP goes, go, why does an area have to be "open" all the time regardless of story?
It's perfectly feasible to imagine that one can't enter an area unless given permission, obtaining a key, being given a way in.
Thinking on this further, I think it's more my dislike of scripted stories where the options I often want are not available because of plot. You are correct that stories, by their nature, can lock off certain areas that are vital to the story later on. I can accept some of that.
You mentioned Morrowind, but I could accept the Ghostfence being locked until the story said, "Go here." I think the cavern with the former "nerevar wannabes" was locked, too. Other than that, I can't think of any other areas that one couldn't go straight to, stepping off of the boat in Seyda Neen.
I agree it's feasible to have some locked away areas. That's why I asked what, or how much locked content is acceptable before it is no longer is "Open World?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Open World is being free to go where you want in whatever order you want, or a least having a large number of options that aren't gated in any way. You may die if you choose to go where ever you want but if you can attempt it, it's open.
Open World does not mean no loading screens, that is a Seamless World. The different is important because not all Seamless Worlds are Open Worlds and vice-versa.
It's in the name; Open.. it's letting you in.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
To me, "Open World" is what happens in the common non instanced part of a game's world you can potentially share with all other players.
Example: "Open World PvP".
It has nothing to do with the world being seamless or not or linear or not.
To be more clear, here are opposites in my opinion:
"Open World" opposes "Instanced".
"Seamless" opposes "with Zones".
"Linear" opposes "Non Linear".
"Theme Park" opposes "Sandbox".
And most MMORPGs have a bit of all those elements mixed together. WoW is mostly seamless but you have loading screens between continents, which is a better compromise that the EQ model with zones everywhere, I remember in EQ2 you had like 5 different zones in a single city... ESO would be open world but with zones. ESO is also way less linear than WoW, you can go anywhere you want in the world starting at level 1 and you have no specific order in which you have to do the different regions of the world. Both ESO and WoW, despite being mostly theme parks, have sandbox elements, ESO more than WoW.
I'd definitely classify Minecraft as "Open World", "Seamless", "Non linear" and "Sandbox".
That works for MMOs or some online games but for a single player game, like Skyrim, there are no separate private instances because it's not multiplayer and not persistent. When you aren't 'in' the overworld area that area is not there anymore, it's also an instance. Your definition says that Skyrim is not an Open World game.
So, really, "Shared Instance" opposes "Private Instance".
Is a shared instance the same as an open world? The hubs in Path of Exile are Shared Instances so your definition means PoE has Open World areas and that you'd classify PoE as an Open World game.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
To me, "Open World" is what happens in the common non instanced part of a game's world you can potentially share with all other players.
Example: "Open World PvP".
It has nothing to do with the world being seamless or not or linear or not.
To be more clear, here are opposites in my opinion:
"Open World" opposes "Instanced".
"Seamless" opposes "with Zones".
"Linear" opposes "Non Linear".
"Theme Park" opposes "Sandbox".
And most MMORPGs have a bit of all those elements mixed together. WoW is mostly seamless but you have loading screens between continents, which is a better compromise that the EQ model with zones everywhere, I remember in EQ2 you had like 5 different zones in a single city... ESO would be open world but with zones. ESO is also way less linear than WoW, you can go anywhere you want in the world starting at level 1 and you have no specific order in which you have to do the different regions of the world. Both ESO and WoW, despite being mostly theme parks, have sandbox elements, ESO more than WoW.
I'd definitely classify Minecraft as "Open World", "Seamless", "Non linear" and "Sandbox".
Interesting clarifications. I do see some overlap.
If 2 oppose each other, can they co-exist? Sandpark and Themebox seem to indicate that Sandbox does not oppose Themepark, but is "just different." Oppose usually indicates 2 extremes of something, like positive/negative or 2 sports teams in a match.
I also echo @TheDarkrayne's observation about multiplayer and single player games.
Thanks for the insight, though. Ya got me thinking more about the topic
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I've seen this term used a lot, in the past and now a resurgence with RDR2. Some games I've seen labeled as such seem to have "story elements" that disputes this label. This is NOT an RDR2 bashing thread
Is Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic an open world game? You can do "the planets" in any order, but those planets are fairly linear.
Is Skyrim Open World with all of it's "quest locked" tombs, caves, and dungeons?
Is Morrowind more Open World since only the Ghostfence is inaccessible until the story unlocks it?
Is Minecraft Open World? You have to work to get to Netherworld (diamonds to obsidian to gate building). You can't go there right off of the bat.
What, if any, are the acceptable limitations to the game?
I'm just curious what people mean when they say, "ABC Game is Open World."
...what? Ghostgate is always open, how would you do the seven pilgrimages for the Temple then(if it were more real, you'd be assigned a Buoyant as well)? You literally push a button on an obelisk of sorts.
Really? It's been awhile since I last played. Am I misnaming the area behind the Ghostfence where the Blight and Daguth Ur are? I know you can get into the temples on either side, but going through I thought was a story point. Did I mess that up?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Simply put: Within any given continent, I can walk from border to border without my immersion being broken by invisible wall or a loading screen.
World of Warcraft's Azeroth is a good example. Loading screens do not break immersion, because they only take place when (fast) traveling long distances.
To me the difficulty is spread around. . like before Bethesda did the leveled zones and zones leveling etc.
It means I can leave the main city and go anywhere and I will find things that I might be able to take on . . or that might slaughter me. . More a real world with points of interest. I don't care if it is instanced.
SWG. . was like this initially. . UO. . had deer, orcs everywhere . . also dungeons everywhere.
If you aren't streamed through zones that is an open world in my eyes. I prefer it to be seamless to truly feel open and get away from that goad.
Open World is being free to go where you want in whatever order you want, or a least having a large number of options that aren't gated in any way. You may die if you choose to go where ever you want but if you can attempt it, it's open.
Open World does not mean no loading screens, that is a Seamless World. The different is important because not all Seamless Worlds are Open Worlds and vice-versa.
^This is the correct answer.
Adding... just because an otherwise open world has a small percentage of gated areas, that doesn't disqualify it as open world - It is a matter of proportions, and usually very clear because the game design is usually either open world or linear and rarely a mix. Also keyed or quest locked areas is also open world if the acquisition of those are not gated or otherwise locked behind long chains of prerequisites.
I wouldn't class EQ as open world. In order for me to class a game as open world you have to be able to go to most areas and engage succesfully in the content within that area.
You couldn't do that in EQ, content was gated behind level.
If EQ is classed as openworld them most MMOs are openworld.
I've seen this term used a lot, in the past and now a resurgence with RDR2. Some games I've seen labeled as such seem to have "story elements" that disputes this label. This is NOT an RDR2 bashing thread
Is Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic an open world game? You can do "the planets" in any order, but those planets are fairly linear.
Is Skyrim Open World with all of it's "quest locked" tombs, caves, and dungeons?
Is Morrowind more Open World since only the Ghostfence is inaccessible until the story unlocks it?
Is Minecraft Open World? You have to work to get to Netherworld (diamonds to obsidian to gate building). You can't go there right off of the bat.
What, if any, are the acceptable limitations to the game?
I'm just curious what people mean when they say, "ABC Game is Open World."
...what? Ghostgate is always open, how would you do the seven pilgrimages for the Temple then(if it were more real, you'd be assigned a Buoyant as well)? You literally push a button on an obelisk of sorts.
Really? It's been awhile since I last played. Am I misnaming the area behind the Ghostfence where the Blight and Daguth Ur are? I know you can get into the temples on either side, but going through I thought was a story point. Did I mess that up?
Everything's as open as it gets. You can even go and kiss Dagoth in that Heart Chamber of his. ...where Destiny is made. Hear, hear!
Maybe it's different in ES:O and people are mixing those two versions of Morrowind? /shrug
Thanks for that clarification. I guess I never attempted to go there until I was told to
Wait... Am I confusing the "glowie fence" as being a wall? I was thinking there was a "wall" in that tunnel/passage between the 2 temples that blocked passage.
Anyway, my confusion is abated. Thanks
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I wouldn't class EQ as open world. In order for me to class a game as open world you have to be able to go to most areas and engage succesfully in the content within that area.
You couldn't do that in EQ, content was gated behind level.
If EQ is classed as openworld them most MMOs are openworld.
I understand where you're coming from, but the "difficulty" doesn't seem to fit in to what an "open world" is. Maybe it does?
I think of open world as simply the ability to go places with no guarantee of safety or even a chance in Hell of surviving.
I view EQ as Open World, even though you can die going many places under-levelled. Places aren't "locked" behind levels. I also see what you're saying about having a chance to succeed, but that sounds more "procedural", based on your characters level, not ability to go (not survive) there.
You're not alone, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Open world to me means your gaming experience is OPEN ended and NOT a game on rails.
We live our real lives in an open world,sure we have to go to work everyday but we still have CHOICE and could live off the grid if we really wanted.Just like in the real world,some places are dangerous,some are not so much<We have real live crafters,musicians,artists,law/rules,we learn and become more experienced through action,doing things. Just like in the real world we have events to do in a group,perhaps that is sports or whatever else requires more than just yourself. We have family and friends,that could/should be also in the gaming world.Housing,pets,mounts all part of a living breathing world.We don't inherit a pet via a quest,we don't become better Carpenters or Doctors by running fetchme errands/quests.An OPEN world is open ended but operates as you would assume it would in a plausible manner using common sense.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Ultima Online ......Eve....... SWG .....Asherons Call
These imo and expereince, are the best examples of Openworld we have to date ..
You know it when you play one ...
I had forgotten about this but VO was inspired by UO
(Begin at 57:02)
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Open World to me is about gameplay not being linear. It doesn't matter if there are loading screens between zones, if each zone is open for exploration and gameplay then that fits the Open World term.
Many people treat the words Seamless and Open World as if they are the same. I was guilty of that in the past then i realized you can have a very linear game that is seamless and also have a non-linear game with loading screens between zones.
Interesting clarifications. I do see some overlap.
If 2 oppose each other, can they co-exist?
They oppose but they aren't exclusive. It's more like scales to me.
For instance, for Minecraft, I'd give approx. those ratings:
Open World Fully Instanced
|-X-----------------------------|
Seamless Heavily Zoned
|-X-----------------------------|
Non linear Totally Linear
|--X----------------------------|
Theme Park Sandbox
|-----------------------------X-|
For Guild Wars 1 (could also be Diablo, would be similar):
Open World Fully Instanced
|-----------------------------X-|
Seamless Heavily Zoned
|-----------------------------X-|
Non linear Totally Linear
|----------------------X--------|
Theme Park Sandbox
|--X----------------------------|
For Everquest:
Open World Fully Instanced
|------X------------------------|
Seamless Heavily Zoned
|---------------------------X---|
Non linear Totally Linear
|-------------X-----------------|
Theme Park Sandbox
|----------X--------------------|
Vanilla WoW:
Open World Fully Instanced
|---------X---------------------|
Seamless Heavily Zoned
|----X--------------------------|
Non linear Totally Linear
|----------X--------------------|
Theme Park Sandbox
|-------X-----------------------|
Modern WoW:
Open World Fully Instanced
|-------------X-----------------|
Seamless Heavily Zoned
|---------X---------------------|
Non linear Totally Linear
|----------------------X--------|
Theme Park Sandbox
|----X--------------------------|
ESO:
Open World Fully Instanced
|------X------------------------|
Seamless Heavily Zoned
|-------------------X-----------|
Non linear Totally Linear
|-----------X-------------------|
Theme Park Sandbox
|--------------X----------------|
Great clarification! Thanks for that
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Any game like ESO I consider open world. I can pretty much ignore any quests I want and go pretty much anywhere, earning xp just through exploration and marking port gates. Once I hit lvl 10 I can PvP. Then there are games that are open world after you've completed the main story, being gated until then.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Large and non-linear, the feeling of actually living in a world with your own choices. Pretty simple concept being made way too complicated. Elder Scroll series is pretty much the epitome of open world.
Some people look at Open World as there are no zones, no loading when going to next area. Others look at it as you can go anywhere in the world you want too. No matter how new the character is you can travel anywhere and the mobs equal your level, skill, you can do any quest, etc.
Comments
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
To support the open world I feel that the story telling and lore should not be on rails
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You mentioned Morrowind, but I could accept the Ghostfence being locked until the story said, "Go here." I think the cavern with the former "nerevar wannabes" was locked, too. Other than that, I can't think of any other areas that one couldn't go straight to, stepping off of the boat in Seyda Neen.
I agree it's feasible to have some locked away areas. That's why I asked what, or how much locked content is acceptable before it is no longer is "Open World?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Open World does not mean no loading screens, that is a Seamless World. The different is important because not all Seamless Worlds are Open Worlds and vice-versa.
It's in the name; Open.. it's letting you in.
So, really, "Shared Instance" opposes "Private Instance".
Is a shared instance the same as an open world? The hubs in Path of Exile are Shared Instances so your definition means PoE has Open World areas and that you'd classify PoE as an Open World game.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
If 2 oppose each other, can they co-exist? Sandpark and Themebox seem to indicate that Sandbox does not oppose Themepark, but is "just different." Oppose usually indicates 2 extremes of something, like positive/negative or 2 sports teams in a match.
I also echo @TheDarkrayne's observation about multiplayer and single player games.
Thanks for the insight, though. Ya got me thinking more about the topic
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It means I can leave the main city and go anywhere and I will find things that I might be able to take on . . or that might slaughter me. . More a real world with points of interest. I don't care if it is instanced.
SWG. . was like this initially. . UO. . had deer, orcs everywhere . . also dungeons everywhere.
If you aren't streamed through zones that is an open world in my eyes. I prefer it to be seamless to truly feel open and get away from that goad.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Adding... just because an otherwise open world has a small percentage of gated areas, that doesn't disqualify it as open world - It is a matter of proportions, and usually very clear because the game design is usually either open world or linear and rarely a mix. Also keyed or quest locked areas is also open world if the acquisition of those are not gated or otherwise locked behind long chains of prerequisites.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Wait... Am I confusing the "glowie fence" as being a wall? I was thinking there was a "wall" in that tunnel/passage between the 2 temples that blocked passage.
Anyway, my confusion is abated. Thanks
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I think of open world as simply the ability to go places with no guarantee of safety or even a chance in Hell of surviving.
I view EQ as Open World, even though you can die going many places under-levelled. Places aren't "locked" behind levels. I also see what you're saying about having a chance to succeed, but that sounds more "procedural", based on your characters level, not ability to go (not survive) there.
You're not alone, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
We live our real lives in an open world,sure we have to go to work everyday but we still have CHOICE and could live off the grid if we really wanted.Just like in the real world,some places are dangerous,some are not so much<We have real live crafters,musicians,artists,law/rules,we learn and become more experienced through action,doing things.
Just like in the real world we have events to do in a group,perhaps that is sports or whatever else requires more than just yourself.
We have family and friends,that could/should be also in the gaming world.Housing,pets,mounts all part of a living breathing world.We don't inherit a pet via a quest,we don't become better Carpenters or Doctors by running fetchme errands/quests.An OPEN world is open ended but operates as you would assume it would in a plausible manner using common sense.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
(Begin at 57:02)
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey