What I think is becoming apparent is that the PvP market has been underserved, and the market for games that require a significant time investment to play has been overserved.
How has the PvP market been underserved exactly. Even the OP has pointed out all the esports titles released in recent years which all serve the pvp crowd.
PVP which is designed around a fair, balanced team sports model have been well served.
PVP with consequences has been dominated by a model which greatly rewards time invested and hasn't been all that well received compared to the former.
Yeah I generally hate grinds and huge power gaps in PvP. Some games like AA have never ending lose growth and pay to win are automatic turn offs.
I would love a MMORPG that works more like an action adventure where you only gain abilities and some gear. No crazy numbers just to have numbers.
I think your assumption that people play these games becuase of You tube is not accurate, or partly because of it, it becomes more popular.
--First those games are B2P or even F2P, which makes them more accessible.
--Secoundly they require less hardware to play. Someone with an old PC can play those games vs an MMO that would need a decent set up to even sometimes still look bad.
--Action Combat Playstyle - Easy to learn and hard to master. Which is why people watch other PROs and learn from them but at the same time that kind of combat is so quick that they can easily hop on into the game and get their daily 'fix' of video gaming. WHere as in an MMO they might have instanced pvp but a person has get gear, and go through the grind etc...
-- Accessibility - similar to previous point but need to re -iterate the significance of how this differs from an MMO. Anyone can just create an account and just play the 'end game'.
If MMOs want to be more popular; then sure they can become more like e-sports, but at the same time it needs to be more accessible.
SO how can an MMO do that, and still maintain its MMO identity?
Well, imo, they can do that by having
1. Accessibility - Allow people to play end game, at least for pvp from character creation - and if its only pvp, then they dont have to pay 2. Customization is mostly for people that play the MMO part, which might even include unique animations 3. Balanced PVP 4. Custom Maps 5. Action oriented combat - A lot of the combat for MMOs seem a bit slow paced with a lot of animations (as in you see a lot happening but sometimes no one is even harmed due to Trinity). May be have less snares and movement impairs, and allow for mobility for all classes but still have cc, just not movement impairment 6. Large pvp maps like Dota but in perspective of MMO (like they have in WoW)
But the problem of hardware will still be a problem.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Let me further explain a bit on the "streamers" thing.
First, you have the streamer. I mean, he/she sits at home (or wherever) loads up a game, camera, and mic and begins "streaming". He gets money, popularity, and acceptance from this. This makes sense to him, as it's allowing him to further expand his hobby of gaming. It's a lot easier to understand than this next part...
The "viewer". And yes, I'm going to call them a sheep. Let's pretend that I want to all of a sudden become a sheep too. So I get on twitch, find a popular streamer and begin watching. This one action is questionable. Why am I doing this? Is it because I cannot afford to pay for that particular game? Is it because I'm too lazy to actually play it myself? Is it because I have to be surrounded by a crowd of like-minded people (the viewers and streamer) to enjoy something? Is it because that particular person streaming has such a great personality and is just so dang funny that I MUST watch him play?
Now, as I'm trying to get used to being like a sheep I notice something else. Well 2 somethings actually. I see this chat window - or as I'd rather call it - a suck-up tickertape of sliced comments, scrolling by. This thing moves so fast that each entire screen of it is refreshed twice a second. So the text that these sheep are leaving behind aren't even going to be read. It's obviously just a mess. So, exactly what is the point of this thing? It's like everyone is just trying to get noticed.
Then an even more confusing thing happens. With some sound effect and simple graphic, we (the sheeple viewers) are notified that one of the idiots on the asskisser ticker has decided to donate money to the dude/girl that is streaming. What motivated that person to decide, "hey, I'm going to give this guy some money."?
Maybe I'm old. Maybe I just don't get it. Or maybe, this whole thing is just weird AF.
No its definately stupid. I always found the appeal of watching people play a game as idiotic, then you factor in people that donate. Why do you give your money to some guy just for the chance to get recognised by the fellower viewers? This is not to say I haven't watch some people play or some E-sport competitions(labeling it sport is so farfetched), but at the end of the day I'd rather play the game then watch someone else play it. I think its more of a newer generation thing and at least partial of people around my age.
-Also Trammel didnt save UO in fact alot of people quit because of it. I never heard anything good about trammel or SWG NGE. The problem is people play a mmorpg with pvp and complain about being pked. Then they get a seething rage for anyone that ganks or pvps labelling them as griefers. Seems to happen alot.
Saw this as the to post at the moment and right away it came to me. The backbone of the problem is not just the games,the players,it is the OTHER factors. Marketing is a billion dollar industry,know why,people are EASILY influenced by popularity,the status quo and notable figures. So we get these streamers like Ninja playing and endorsing Fortnite and look what game is the most popular game. We get people paid to endorse products every single minute of every single day.What i have seen is VERY gullible consumers,they will believe anything a marketing video shows them or what some website employees tell them.
I see the puppets in twitch all the time,a popular streamer says something,ev1 is like HE IS RIGHT.Two months later said streamer changes his mind and then all the puppets are like ..he is RIGHT !!. Bottom line is people cannot think for themselves and it is in epidemic proportions.Anyone ever seen in a game chat the common questions....what class is the best dps,what class is the best healer,what is the best pvp class.Admit we all see these type of no able to think for themselves type questions asked a LOT. So bottom line is all of these outside influences are ruining consumers and ruining games,too much crap is being supported,too many lazy cheap developers are made rich via outside resources.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I know several people that only play games wehre there are alot of other players....I think sheep follow shee[p.
I kind of do that myself. I played some niche game with small player base. It was fun. The problem is after a while the game get on life support. Either very little update or game get closed down.
-Also Trammel didnt save UO in fact alot of people quit because of it.
No matter how much you deny it, it actually did, and it was admitted by the developers back then too.
The population was starting to drop badly, Trammel released, the game recovered and reached its peak population 2 years AFTER Trammel's release. Maybe a few people quit, but way, way more joined.
So that sentence of you is basically completely wrong.
Strange thing tho , that the most populated UO servers like UO Forever , (private servers ) and there are many , the most populated ones , all play Pre Trammel rulesets .. weird huh .. And ill add that a server like UO Forever has far more pop than Even Atlantic currently has ...
There were several reasons for Trammel and the first was LAnd , there was no Land left thats why they began work on Trammel in the first place, it was provide more land , as Trammel developed the outcry over PKs had them add it as a no PK area .. ..
But , none of that changes the fact that the Pre Trammel rule set is still the favorite among the Majority of UO players .. Go log into UO Forever right now and got W Brit Bank , there is barely room to stand most evenings..
So to say that Pre Trammel ruined UO is a bit of a reach imo , Pre Trammel ruined UO for those folks that did not want or expect such a PK orieented world ,(thats for sure) thats shame on them , (many bruised vaginas ) They did not understnad what they were getting involved with and really never should have entered UO ...
The people that left never really wanted or could stomach that type of Gameplay , The UO population that is left is happy and fine , and were the intended audience and the majority of them are playing in Pre Trammle Rule sets .. go figure. And ill add Many players even on Atl today spend there time in Fel ,Particularly when leveling has there is a skill and resource bonus gain there..
So Pre Trammel could not of been the ruin of UO as it it is still today the most popular ruleset , UO has not been ruined , but certainly many people went into UO expecting something else , and the experience for that demograpgic was ruined , But for UO players Pre Trammel still stands tall , and it will weed out the weak ,, and leave strong players ..
S o we cannot in the same breath say that the thing that ruined UO is the very thing keeping it alive ..
-Also Trammel didnt save UO in fact alot of people quit because of it.
No matter how much you deny it, it actually did, and it was admitted by the developers back then too.
The population was starting to drop badly, Trammel released, the game recovered and reached its peak population 2 years AFTER Trammel's release. Maybe a few people quit, but way, way more joined.
So that sentence of you is basically completely wrong.
Strange thing tho , that the most populated UO servers like UO Forever , (private servers ) and there are many , the most populated ones , all play Pre Trammel rulesets .. weird huh .. And ill add that a server like UO Forever has far more pop than Even Atlantic currently has ...
There were several reasons for Trammel and the first was LAnd , there was no Land left thats why they began work on Trammel in the first place, it was provide more land , as Trammel developed the outcry over PKs had them add it as a no PK area .. ..
But , none of that changes the fact that the Pre Trammel rule set is still the favorite among the Majority of UO players .. Go log into UO Forever right now and got W Brit Bank , there is barely room to stand most evenings..
So to say that Pre Trammel ruined UO is a bit of a reach imo , Pre Trammel ruined UO for those folks that did not want or expect such a PK orieented world ,(thats for sure) thats shame on them , (many bruised vaginas ) They did not understnad what they were getting involved with and really never should have entered UO ...
The people that left never really wanted or could stomach that type of Gameplay , The UO population that is left is happy and fine , and were the intended audience and the majority of them are playing in Pre Trammle Rule sets .. go figure. And ill add Many players even on Atl today spend there time in Fel ,Particularly when leveling has there is a skill and resource bonus gain there..
So Pre Trammel could not of been the ruin of UO as it it is still today the most popular ruleset , UO has not been ruined , but certainly many people went into UO expecting something else , and the experience for that demograpgic was ruined , But for UO players Pre Trammel still stands tall , and it will weed out the weak ,, and leave strong players ..
S o we cannot in the same breath say that the thing that ruined UO is the very thing keeping it alive ..
So how does the release of pve server destroyed the game. I heard many say it.
If so many liked the pvp server, it shouldn't matter pve server is released.
The solution seems simple enough - if the people are the cause of all problems - remove all people - and the problems go away too.
I agree T-101, proceed!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Well, games are a business like any other product or means of entertainment. Even sports are a business, made to make as much money as possible. Its not about how fun it is, but how much money one can make from it.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Comments
I would love a MMORPG that works more like an action adventure where you only gain abilities and some gear. No crazy numbers just to have numbers.
--First those games are B2P or even F2P, which makes them more accessible.
--Secoundly they require less hardware to play. Someone with an old PC can play those games vs an MMO that would need a decent set up to even sometimes still look bad.
--Action Combat Playstyle - Easy to learn and hard to master. Which is why people watch other PROs and learn from them but at the same time that kind of combat is so quick that they can easily hop on into the game and get their daily 'fix' of video gaming. WHere as in an MMO they might have instanced pvp but a person has get gear, and go through the grind etc...
-- Accessibility - similar to previous point but need to re -iterate the significance of how this differs from an MMO. Anyone can just create an account and just play the 'end game'.
If MMOs want to be more popular; then sure they can become more like e-sports, but at the same time it needs to be more accessible.
SO how can an MMO do that, and still maintain its MMO identity?
Well, imo, they can do that by having
1. Accessibility - Allow people to play end game, at least for pvp from character creation - and if its only pvp, then they dont have to pay
2. Customization is mostly for people that play the MMO part, which might even include unique animations
3. Balanced PVP
4. Custom Maps
5. Action oriented combat - A lot of the combat for MMOs seem a bit slow paced with a lot of animations (as in you see a lot happening but sometimes no one is even harmed due to Trinity). May be have less snares and movement impairs, and allow for mobility for all classes but still have cc, just not movement impairment
6. Large pvp maps like Dota but in perspective of MMO (like they have in WoW)
But the problem of hardware will still be a problem.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
-Also Trammel didnt save UO in fact alot of people quit because of it. I never heard anything good about trammel or SWG NGE. The problem is people play a mmorpg with pvp and complain about being pked. Then they get a seething rage for anyone that ganks or pvps labelling them as griefers. Seems to happen alot.
MurderHerd
The backbone of the problem is not just the games,the players,it is the OTHER factors.
Marketing is a billion dollar industry,know why,people are EASILY influenced by popularity,the status quo and notable figures.
So we get these streamers like Ninja playing and endorsing Fortnite and look what game is the most popular game.
We get people paid to endorse products every single minute of every single day.What i have seen is VERY gullible consumers,they will believe anything a marketing video shows them or what some website employees tell them.
I see the puppets in twitch all the time,a popular streamer says something,ev1 is like HE IS RIGHT.Two months later said streamer changes his mind and then all the puppets are like ..he is RIGHT !!.
Bottom line is people cannot think for themselves and it is in epidemic proportions.Anyone ever seen in a game chat the common questions....what class is the best dps,what class is the best healer,what is the best pvp class.Admit we all see these type of no able to think for themselves type questions asked a LOT.
So bottom line is all of these outside influences are ruining consumers and ruining games,too much crap is being supported,too many lazy cheap developers are made rich via outside resources.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Only the true shepherds understand the fun of playing by themselves or in extremely low populations. Full lobbies be damned.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If so many liked the pvp server, it shouldn't matter pve server is released.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul