As defined by the Internet, a "failing" game is one that the writer does not personally like. For example, I am not interested in Fortnite or PUBG, and so they are failing. </sarcasm>
Well, it seems like the money-printing fantasies that many big companies had after the success of WoW are finally fading away. So, I agree that the genre is dying. However, I think that eventually it'll come back: MMORPGs *can* be profitable, IMO, but the huge profits that some folks were scrambling for will probably not return. Ultimately, I think that's for the best.
The casuals seem to be moving into mobile or the battle royal/FPS/survival games genres.
That could mean the failure of the monetization model not the game itself, since many games have been thriving for many years after the conversation. But I get what you mean.
Not sure "thriving" is the word choice I would use (limping along seems more appropriate)....but I get what you mean.
The important part is that we get what we mean. So, shall take this to the next level?
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Decline in the amount of threads stating how the game is failing. People dont spend time complaining about a game once it is actually failing, as there are few left, and those that have remained are just resigned to the end.
.........How can you possibly think this genre is dying?
Companies that make games are not making MMORPG games. The ones that are have to beg their customers for funding. IF it was growing there would still be yearly releases.
Beg is hypebole and wrong.
No yearly releases is also wrong.
Re: crowdfunding, Devs want to know if theres an audience for their vision before starting, and want to not deal with publisher bullshit.
Amazon is making New World. Massive studio.
Star Citizen, Crowfall, Pantheon, Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained have all raised $15million+ for their games which isnt small potatoes. They all look like theyre going to release in the next 2-3 years, and all started around a similar time. We'll see how that goes.
Weve got BDO, Bless, Warframe, Maplestory 2, Legends of Aria, Sea of Thieves, Conan Exiles, Life is Feudal, Albion Online, Blade and Soul from the past few years. Edit: go check out MMO pulse, cause theres dozens of other MMO's released in 2016-2018 that I didnt mention.
And most traditional dev+publisher relationships only go public 2-5 months from their launching of games, so there may be 3-20 MMOs coming out this year that devs have been quiet about.
I get that it's cool to be negative about things, but the real world says this genre isnt dying.
Unless you have a definition of dying that me, and most people, dont share.
Edit 2: wait, by "MMOs are dying" is what you actually mean "MMORPG's with all of: third person view, 3D world, subscription model, medieval European fantasy setting, no cash shop, no p2w, but including raids, end game grind, dungeons, and forced socialization, are not coming out in droves, therefore genre is dead"?
I hope this isnt what you personally mean, but when I've questioned people who hold the view MMO's are dying, most of them actually mean the second quote above.
If thats the case, then I can do the same thing for any genre of media - make the goalposts so narrow that no group of similar creative projects can get through them.
Here's some examples of this thinking, extreme ones to prove my point (hyperbole, with a purpose):
Movies are dying because only Scorcese and Spielberg make good movies, and they dont release them every year.
Books are dying because paper copy sales havent dramatically increased last 12 financial quarters, each quarter.
TV shows are dying because there arent five shows funnier than classic Simpsons released each season on cable.
Music is dying because all modern music sucks and I dont understand young people and I refuse to listen to, and enjoy, something that sounds new and different.
In that case, all media is dying, woe is us.
Im not saying this is you, but I'm certainly, a little bit, thinking that this MIGHT be you.
.........How can you possibly think this genre is dying?
Companies that make games are not making MMORPG games. The ones that are have to beg their customers for funding. IF it was growing there would still be yearly releases.
Beg is hypebole and wrong.
No yearly releases is also wrong.
Re: crowdfunding, Devs want to know if theres an audience for their vision before starting, and want to not deal with publisher bullshit.
Amazon is making New World. Massive studio.
Star Citizen, Crowfall, Pantheon, Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained have all raised $15million+ for their games which isnt small potatoes. They all look like theyre going to release in the next 2-3 years, and all started around a similar time. We'll see how that goes.
Weve got BDO, Bless, Warframe, Maplestory 2, Legends of Aria, Sea of Thieves, Conan Exiles, Life is Feudal, Albion Online, Blade and Soul from the past few years. Edit: go check out MMO pulse, cause theres dozens of other MMO's released in 2016-2018 that I didnt mention.
And most traditional dev+publisher relationships only go public 2-5 months from their launching of games, so there may be 3-20 MMOs coming out this year that devs have been quiet about.
I get that it's cool to be negative about things, but the real world says this genre isnt dying.
Unless you have a definition of dying that me, and most people, dont share.
Edit 2: wait, by "MMOs are dying" is what you actually mean "MMORPG's with all of: third person view, 3D world, subscription model, medieval European fantasy setting, no cash shop, no p2w, but including raids, end game grind, dungeons, and forced socialization, are not coming out in droves, therefore genre is dead"?
I hope this isnt what you personally mean, but when I've questioned people who hold the view MMO's are dying, most of them actually mean the second quote above.
If thats the case, then I can do the same thing for any genre of media - make the goalposts so narrow that no group of similar creative projects can get through them.
Here's some examples of this thinking, extreme ones to prove my point (hyperbole, with a purpose):
Movies are dying because only Scorcese and Spielberg make good movies, and they dont release them every year.
Books are dying because paper copy sales havent dramatically increased last 12 financial quarters, each quarter.
TV shows are dying because there arent five shows funnier than classic Simpsons released each season on cable.
Music is dying because all modern music sucks and I dont understand young people and I refuse to listen to, and enjoy, something that sounds new and different.
In that case, all media is dying, woe is us.
Im not saying this is you, but I'm certainly, a little bit, thinking that this MIGHT be you.
You don't see many "westerns" being made anymore......
Think of MMORPGs as being like them.
These days the goalposts are being set far too wide, i.e. Destiny 2 is MMO.....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Decline in the amount of threads stating how the game is failing. People dont spend time complaining about a game once it is actually failing, as there are few left, and those that have remained are just resigned to the end.
this is true if there is lacking people talking about it, there is not much people on it, hecne why most company are ok with hate/angry posts, taht means it keep they game up, when no one talk about it and is damn hard to collect info on it, then you have a serious problem here
Personally, I think failing is when the game isn't making money.
If you accept that definition then there are 2 signs: 1. Changes to the business model, to make the game make more money. 2. Less money being spent improving/managing/running the game.
Obviously there's both good and bad ways of handling it. Just because a game is failing, it doesn't necessarily mean it will die. (The decline can often be stabilized at a cash-positive state) Conversely, even games that aren't failing can die; even successful multi-million-dollar money-makers can be killed by idiot business people who don't understand how the industry really works.
When MMO's start to try and Re-Invent themselves that is when they failed, because when they try to overhaul their system, they just admitted what they first had was not working.
Now, sometimes, the New Game Direction works for them, and they pull out of their downward spin, other times they just make things worse and dig their own grave faster.
but no matter what happens, their first go was still a failure.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Any game where you see F2P being defended by fanboys or employees run... Game will fail soon enough. Look at low pop games that's a sign they already failed. Look at the amount of whales a game has. If a game was previously Sub and became F2P that isn't a good sign either. Look at the games management.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Decline in the amount of threads stating how the game is failing. People dont spend time complaining about a game once it is actually failing, as there are few left, and those that have remained are just resigned to the end.
This is honestly the most accurate way to well. I think all MMOs have been so-called failing/dying at one point. Some believe the genre is dead as well. This is one of my pet peeves.
"I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
What I find amusing is that damn near every single thing that people have pointed out here about what points to an MMO starting to fail, with the exception of the game not receiving patches/content, has happened to SWTOR and yet that utter dog turd of a game still exists.
It went F2P very quickly and also very grudgingly. It's almost like they went Free to Spite, because they nickeled and dimed the hell out of F2P customers. You literally had to buy parts of the goddamn UI back if you played free. Parts. Of. The. Goddamn. UI.
The cash shop also quickly became the primary focus of the game. New things appeared in the cash shop on a frequency of 5:1 to patches and updates, but all the good stuff was, of course, in random loot boxes so you had to gamble half your paycheck away to get them.
Shutting down parts of the game. The game was an un-optomized hell hole. Especially for PVP. So bad in fact that they had to completely shut down the open PVP area on the final planet because even the most advanced computers of the day couldn't run it with 100 people fighting there.
The server list shrank from around 140 servers down to the 30 range very quickly, and then over the years it has dwindled from those 30 down to two in the US and three in the EU.
They even tried to rebrand themselves by going completely off script and so far from canon that it's laughable with their KOTFE storyline.
... and yet. Like some kind of demon from the lower pits of a Diablo game, it just keeps shambling on and on, refusing to go in a corner and die so that we can move on and perhaps one day get a halfway decent SW MMO... like the one this pile of trash replaced.
What I find amusing is that damn near every single thing that people have pointed out here about what points to an MMO starting to fail, with the exception of the game not receiving patches/content, has happened to SWTOR and yet that utter dog turd of a game still exists.
It went F2P very quickly and also very grudgingly. It's almost like they went Free to Spite, because they nickeled and dimed the hell out of F2P customers. You literally had to buy parts of the goddamn UI back if you played free. Parts. Of. The. Goddamn. UI.
The cash shop also quickly became the primary focus of the game. New things appeared in the cash shop on a frequency of 5:1 to patches and updates, but all the good stuff was, of course, in random loot boxes so you had to gamble half your paycheck away to get them.
Shutting down parts of the game. The game was an un-optomized hell hole. Especially for PVP. So bad in fact that they had to completely shut down the open PVP area on the final planet because even the most advanced computers of the day couldn't run it with 100 people fighting there.
The server list shrank from around 140 servers down to the 30 range very quickly, and then over the years it has dwindled from those 30 down to two in the US and three in the EU.
They even tried to rebrand themselves by going completely off script and so far from canon that it's laughable with their KOTFE storyline.
... and yet. Like some kind of demon from the lower pits of a Diablo game, it just keeps shambling on and on, refusing to go in a corner and die so that we can move on and perhaps one day get a halfway decent SW MMO... like the one this pile of trash replaced.
i'm pretty sure it's still around because of the licensing. and it probably still makes a decent amount of cash.
besides.. a new SW MMO is not gonna happen just because this one shuts down.
Comments
Aloha Mr Hand !
Beg is hypebole and wrong.
No yearly releases is also wrong.
Re: crowdfunding, Devs want to know if theres an audience for their vision before starting, and want to not deal with publisher bullshit.
Amazon is making New World. Massive studio.
Star Citizen, Crowfall, Pantheon, Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained have all raised $15million+ for their games which isnt small potatoes. They all look like theyre going to release in the next 2-3 years, and all started around a similar time. We'll see how that goes.
Weve got BDO, Bless, Warframe, Maplestory 2, Legends of Aria, Sea of Thieves, Conan Exiles, Life is Feudal, Albion Online, Blade and Soul from the past few years. Edit: go check out MMO pulse, cause theres dozens of other MMO's released in 2016-2018 that I didnt mention.
And most traditional dev+publisher relationships only go public 2-5 months from their launching of games, so there may be 3-20 MMOs coming out this year that devs have been quiet about.
I get that it's cool to be negative about things, but the real world says this genre isnt dying.
Unless you have a definition of dying that me, and most people, dont share.
Edit 2: wait, by "MMOs are dying" is what you actually mean "MMORPG's with all of: third person view, 3D world, subscription model, medieval European fantasy setting, no cash shop, no p2w, but including raids, end game grind, dungeons, and forced socialization, are not coming out in droves, therefore genre is dead"?
I hope this isnt what you personally mean, but when I've questioned people who hold the view MMO's are dying, most of them actually mean the second quote above.
If thats the case, then I can do the same thing for any genre of media - make the goalposts so narrow that no group of similar creative projects can get through them.
Here's some examples of this thinking, extreme ones to prove my point (hyperbole, with a purpose):
Movies are dying because only Scorcese and Spielberg make good movies, and they dont release them every year.
Books are dying because paper copy sales havent dramatically increased last 12 financial quarters, each quarter.
TV shows are dying because there arent five shows funnier than classic Simpsons released each season on cable.
Music is dying because all modern music sucks and I dont understand young people and I refuse to listen to, and enjoy, something that sounds new and different.
In that case, all media is dying, woe is us.
Im not saying this is you, but I'm certainly, a little bit, thinking that this MIGHT be you.
Think of MMORPGs as being like them.
These days the goalposts are being set far too wide, i.e. Destiny 2 is MMO.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you accept that definition then there are 2 signs:
1. Changes to the business model, to make the game make more money.
2. Less money being spent improving/managing/running the game.
Obviously there's both good and bad ways of handling it. Just because a game is failing, it doesn't necessarily mean it will die. (The decline can often be stabilized at a cash-positive state) Conversely, even games that aren't failing can die; even successful multi-million-dollar money-makers can be killed by idiot business people who don't understand how the industry really works.
Now, sometimes, the New Game Direction works for them, and they pull out of their downward spin, other times they just make things worse and dig their own grave faster.
but no matter what happens, their first go was still a failure.
https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list
It went F2P very quickly and also very grudgingly. It's almost like they went Free to Spite, because they nickeled and dimed the hell out of F2P customers. You literally had to buy parts of the goddamn UI back if you played free. Parts. Of. The. Goddamn. UI.
The cash shop also quickly became the primary focus of the game. New things appeared in the cash shop on a frequency of 5:1 to patches and updates, but all the good stuff was, of course, in random loot boxes so you had to gamble half your paycheck away to get them.
Shutting down parts of the game. The game was an un-optomized hell hole. Especially for PVP. So bad in fact that they had to completely shut down the open PVP area on the final planet because even the most advanced computers of the day couldn't run it with 100 people fighting there.
The server list shrank from around 140 servers down to the 30 range very quickly, and then over the years it has dwindled from those 30 down to two in the US and three in the EU.
They even tried to rebrand themselves by going completely off script and so far from canon that it's laughable with their KOTFE storyline.
... and yet. Like some kind of demon from the lower pits of a Diablo game, it just keeps shambling on and on, refusing to go in a corner and die so that we can move on and perhaps one day get a halfway decent SW MMO... like the one this pile of trash replaced.
i'm pretty sure it's still around because of the licensing. and it probably still makes a decent amount of cash.
besides.. a new SW MMO is not gonna happen just because this one shuts down.
I had fun once, it was terrible.