Your right the proof is in the pudding and we shall see in time. One of us might get to say I told you so. :P
Yes, SBS was turned down by some investors and they turned down others due to the Investors wanting to change the scope of the game. It was the business decision they felt most comfortable with.
The sales were of no surprise to me either now that server selection has transpired and they have a better idea of how many of those positions still exist on each server.
Legendary, in this case simply means it is a historic location.
One thing I know for sure is Caspian can't make anyone support his game financially if they don't want too, no matter what he puts in the store. If people are overspending in an attempt to better secure themselves in-game, I say go for it. Because in reality, it only gives them more to protect, maintain, and lose after launch. Assuming the intended mechanics are implemented into the game, of course.
The thing I noticed that you failed to recognize in my entire post is that without the 95% of happy players after launch, there is no game for anyone to play.
Your right the proof is in the pudding and we shall see in time. One of us might get to say I told you so. :P
Yes, SBS was turned down by some investors and they turned down others due to the Investors wanting to change the scope of the game. It was the business decision they felt most comfortable with.
The sales were of no surprise to me either now that server selection has transpired and they have a better idea of how many of those positions still exist on each server.
Legendary, in this case simply means it is a historic location.
One thing I know for sure is Caspian can't make anyone support his game financially if they don't want too, no matter what he puts in the store. If people are overspending in an attempt to better secure themselves in-game, I say go for it. Because in reality, it only gives them more to protect and lose after launch. Assuming the intended mechanics are implemented into the game, of course.
The thing I noticed that you failed to recognize in my entire post is that without the 95% of happy players after launch, there is no game for anyone to play.
Mystic... it’s just another unreasonable leap of faith. There is no way.. as in zero percent chance that 95% of players at launch will be happy. That’s just not realistic for any MMORPG. What you are saying just demonstrates a complete disconnect from reality. That’s honestly not an attempt at being mean but seriously games just do not launch with that kind of retention. When you toss PvP, looting, permadeath, on top and combine it with the inevitable rough start (bugs, lag, downtime, exploits) the realistic retention rate is a fraction of that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Your right the proof is in the pudding and we shall see in time. One of us might get to say I told you so. :P
Yes, SBS was turned down by some investors and they turned down others due to the Investors wanting to change the scope of the game. It was the business decision they felt most comfortable with.
The sales were of no surprise to me either now that server selection has transpired and they have a better idea of how many of those positions still exist on each server.
Legendary, in this case simply means it is a historic location.
One thing I know for sure is Caspian can't make anyone support his game financially if they don't want too, no matter what he puts in the store. If people are overspending in an attempt to better secure themselves in-game, I say go for it. Because in reality, it only gives them more to protect and lose after launch. Assuming the intended mechanics are implemented into the game, of course.
The thing I noticed that you failed to recognize in my entire post is that without the 95% of happy players after launch, there is no game for anyone to play.
Mystic... it’s just another unreasonable leap of faith. There is no way.. as in zero percent chance that 95% of players at launch will be happy. That’s just not realistic for any MMORPG. What you are saying just demonstrates a complete disconnect from reality. That’s honestly not an attempt at being mean but seriously games just do not launch with that kind of retention. When you toss PvP, looting, permadeath, on top and combine it with the inevitable rough start (bugs, lag, downtime, exploits) the realistic retention rate is a fraction of that.
Because I don't agree with you or have a different opinion then you I don't think it warrants assuming I have disconnected with reality.
Let me explain this better. I know full well you won't have the complete player base happy with your product no matter what the game is. However, I do see how what I said could be perceived that way...
We will go with your numbers as to there is only 20k backer support currently. Spread over 4 servers. Each server has six Kingdoms and 301 Noble seats per Kindom resulting in1806 Noble seats in each server. Divided equally for argument sake they would have 5K Exposition players per server. With packages ranging from bloodline and up so those players will be focused on other aspects of the game, and not all Nobility, plus spread across the entire map.
On a map that large those 5k Expo players will be spread out pretty thin. The hope, and perhaps it is a leap of faith on the communities part, is to eventually, over time acquire enough interest in the game to support servers with a minimum of 95k player base each. Is it possible? I hope so, but I am aware it is a bit of a reach and won't be accomplished overnight. In addition, to CoE having to prove themselves. I count a lot on commitment over time, the fact that once Roleplayers find a place they are happy, they bring all their friends and they tend to bounce from game to game a lot less, which creates loyalty and return business.
This leads me to my point once again, that without focusing on encouraging and rewarding gameplay for players after launch, it really doesn't matter what is spent now because there would definitely be no chance at a game after launch...
Simply assuming game mechanics that support the intention of the game aren't going to exist, because someone has decided that SBS isn't doing that. Doesn't make it true.
Your right the proof is in the pudding and we shall see in time. One of us might get to say I told you so. :P
Yes, SBS was turned down by some investors and they turned down others due to the Investors wanting to change the scope of the game. It was the business decision they felt most comfortable with.
The sales were of no surprise to me either now that server selection has transpired and they have a better idea of how many of those positions still exist on each server.
Legendary, in this case simply means it is a historic location.
One thing I know for sure is Caspian can't make anyone support his game financially if they don't want too, no matter what he puts in the store. If people are overspending in an attempt to better secure themselves in-game, I say go for it. Because in reality, it only gives them more to protect and lose after launch. Assuming the intended mechanics are implemented into the game, of course.
The thing I noticed that you failed to recognize in my entire post is that without the 95% of happy players after launch, there is no game for anyone to play.
Mystic... it’s just another unreasonable leap of faith. There is no way.. as in zero percent chance that 95% of players at launch will be happy. That’s just not realistic for any MMORPG. What you are saying just demonstrates a complete disconnect from reality. That’s honestly not an attempt at being mean but seriously games just do not launch with that kind of retention. When you toss PvP, looting, permadeath, on top and combine it with the inevitable rough start (bugs, lag, downtime, exploits) the realistic retention rate is a fraction of that.
Because I don't agree with you or have a different opinion then you I don't think it warrants assuming I have disconnected with reality.
Let me explain this better. I know full well you won't have the complete player base happy with your product no matter what the game is. However, I do see how what I said could be perceived that way...
We will go with your numbers as to there is only 20k backer support currently. Spread over 4 servers. Each server has six Kingdoms and 301 Noble seats per Kindom resulting in1806 Noble seats in each server. Divided equally for argument sake they would have 5K Exposition players per server. With packages ranging from bloodline and up so those players will be focused on other aspects of the game, and not all Nobility, plus spread across the entire map.
On a map that large those 5k Expo players will be spread out pretty thin. The hope, and perhaps it is a leap of faith on the communities part, is to eventually, over time acquire enough interest in the game to support servers with a minimum of 95k player base each. Is it possible? I hope so, but I am aware it is a bit of a reach and won't be accomplished overnight. In addition, to CoE having to prove themselves. I count a lot on commitment over time, the fact that once Roleplayers find a place they are happy, they bring all their friends and they tend to bounce from game to game a lot less, which creates loyalty and return business.
This leads me to my point once again, that without focusing on encouraging and rewarding gameplay for players after launch, it really doesn't matter what is spent now because there would definitely be no chance at a game after launch...
Simply assuming game mechanics that support the intention of the game aren't going to exist, because someone has decided that SBS isn't doing that. Doesn't make it true.
Experience has shown that until a developer actually delivers a proposed mechanic in a finished product it's best to remain skeptical of whether or not it "exists" and / or is working as intended.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@kyleran I agree totally and am just as eager as everyone else to see something that reveals some proof of SBS's vision in action. We have waited a long time as game development is a slow process, but I think at the rate we have seen things being released lately, we will start seeing some new content in the New Year.
As your statement implies it is common Knowledge to assume there will not be changes through-out a game development, is naive. I also agree. However, disregarding intended, core game mechanics, with nothing to support your statement except a desire to win a debate, goes above and beyond Skepticism.
Damn I had a long post with links and all that I typed up on my phone and then hit back while proofreading and lost it. Need to leave for airport so you will just have to imagine it’s awesomene.
In essence- Mystic you better hope you are wrong that the game will fail unless 95% of the players are happy at launch. Name one FFA PvP game with looting that launched in the last decade with numbers like that. Or 90.. 80... 50?
This game is going to have a rough launch even by MMORPG standards. It’s going to have bugs, imbalances, exploits... all the normal launch issues. Not really much related to the OP but I think it’s an interesting path you have taken us down. You can’t argue facts or logic with faith and that’s why we have a disconnect in my opinion. You can accept what Caspien says without questioning the how of it. I’m an engineer by trade so it’s utterly against my nature to do that.
Not proofreading so use your imagination for any strange words above.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There's no set expiration date for the items purchased.
As much as so many like to point out that these items won't remain in the original owner's possession or will be destroyed relatively quickly, you have nothing that guarantees any of that happening. Nothing at all. Depending upon the details of the game mechanics, it could end up being very possible that these folks retain the advantages given for a long time. That's why most devs generally refrain from allowing players to purchase such items in this manner.
Including them also puts the devs in the precarious position of making the ownership resilient enough to seem like it wasn't a complete waste of money. Contrary to popular mantra, most crowdfunding backers aren't throwing hundreds of thousands at your game out of goodwill alone. They are enticed by what that amount buys them. If it turns out it bought them two weeks, they're not gonna be happy.
Please quantity "long time"? I am not trying to be difficult about it. What in your opinion is the maximum time frame that such an advantage can be allowed to last without disrupting the experience for new players to such an extent that the game fails?
As for the rest, I mostly agree. There is definitely a risk of overstocking the pre-pay advantage. An expiry date would be a good idea but you make the argument that a "long term" guarantee is needed to make a purchase attractive enough in the first place. Catch-22 isn't it?
So where does that leave us? Given lack of alternative financing there is no other option. There is a simple choice; (1) use cash shop to build game or (2) no game. And for (1) to work, according to you, backers want a minimum period in which to enjoy their advantage. So following your logic SBS have no choice if they want to produce the game.
Ideally we need a calculation/estimate as to what quantity/value is currently held by backers and what the daily churn post-launch will be. Given that all characters must maintain themselves 24/7 real time I suspect that churn will be quite high.
There's no set expiration date for the items purchased.
As much as so many like to point out that these items won't remain in the original owner's possession or will be destroyed relatively quickly, you have nothing that guarantees any of that happening. Nothing at all. Depending upon the details of the game mechanics, it could end up being very possible that these folks retain the advantages given for a long time. That's why most devs generally refrain from allowing players to purchase such items in this manner.
Including them also puts the devs in the precarious position of making the ownership resilient enough to seem like it wasn't a complete waste of money. Contrary to popular mantra, most crowdfunding backers aren't throwing hundreds of thousands at your game out of goodwill alone. They are enticed by what that amount buys them. If it turns out it bought them two weeks, they're not gonna be happy.
Please quantity "long time"? I am not trying to be difficult about it. What in your opinion is the maximum time frame that such an advantage can be allowed to last without disrupting the experience for new players to such an extent that the game fails?
As for the rest, I mostly agree. There is definitely a risk of overstocking the pre-pay advantage. An expiry date would be a good idea but you make the argument that a "long term" guarantee is needed to make a purchase attractive enough in the first place. Catch-22 isn't it?
So where does that leave us? Given lack of alternative financing there is no other option. There is a simple choice; (1) use cash shop to build game or (2) no game. And for (1) to work, according to you, backers want a minimum period in which to enjoy their advantage. So following your logic SBS have no choice if they want to produce the game.
Ideally we need a calculation/estimate as to what quantity/value is currently held by backers and what the daily churn post-launch will be. Given that all characters must maintain themselves 24/7 real time I suspect that churn will be quite high.
Here's the thing: I don't assume the game needs to be built. That's not a binary choice, you're creating one because you want this game to be made. Since it's binary in your mind, there appears to be no room for the idea that not all ideas pitched turn into actual products.
When you include that third option, you can then acknowledge that just because a practice works to garner funds, it doesn't necessarily mean it's an equitable and non-manipulative way to garner those funds. The ends do not justify any and all means.
If you went into this hoping it would get made and contributing your money, you had to (or should have) realize(d) that the game may not actually be attractive enough to bring to market. Your (or anyone else) backing it does not make it a market imperative that this development is completed. It certainly doesn't absolve SBS of any responsibility for the way they generate those funds from backers. If you see pushback from folks about selling powerful titles and items, you should accept that the pushback is actually a direct result of extreme funding efforts by SBS and may, in and of itself, cripple long-term efforts to complete the game.
Damn I had a long post with links and all that I typed up on my phone and then hit back while proofreading and lost it. Need to leave for airport so you will just have to imagine it’s awesomene.
In essence- Mystic you better hope you are wrong that the game will fail unless 95% of the players are happy at launch. Name one FFA PvP game with looting that launched in the last decade with numbers like that. Or 90.. 80... 50?
This game is going to have a rough launch even by MMORPG standards. It’s going to have bugs, imbalances, exploits... all the normal launch issues. Not really much related to the OP but I think it’s an interesting path you have taken us down. You can’t argue facts or logic with faith and that’s why we have a disconnect in my opinion. You can accept what Caspien says without questioning the how of it. I’m an engineer by trade so it’s utterly against my nature to do that.
Not proofreading so use your imagination for any strange words above.
Actually, there are two facets of your comment that are completely wrong. As I tried to reexplain I didn't mean 95% of the players must be happy. I meant that backers are intended to only make up five percent of the servers population. Thus it is in SBS's best interest to make sure players after launch enjoys the game and receive the promised features.
Secondly, I am not an idiot that spends my hard earned money on blind faith. You make assumptions that I just except Caspian's word without question, which couldn't be farther from the truth. Instead, I have examined and questioned all the intended features and can visualize how they are meant to work together. Unlike you, I don't simply disregard the features that work against my theory, such as launch players being able to acquire other player's possessions when making my analysis of the games strengths and weakness'
Why we have a disconnect is really very simple. I want to see the game succeed, and you want to see it fail. Insulting my intelligence doesn't make this fact any less true.
Damn I had a long post with links and all that I typed up on my phone and then hit back while proofreading and lost it. Need to leave for airport so you will just have to imagine it’s awesomene.
In essence- Mystic you better hope you are wrong that the game will fail unless 95% of the players are happy at launch. Name one FFA PvP game with looting that launched in the last decade with numbers like that. Or 90.. 80... 50?
This game is going to have a rough launch even by MMORPG standards. It’s going to have bugs, imbalances, exploits... all the normal launch issues. Not really much related to the OP but I think it’s an interesting path you have taken us down. You can’t argue facts or logic with faith and that’s why we have a disconnect in my opinion. You can accept what Caspien says without questioning the how of it. I’m an engineer by trade so it’s utterly against my nature to do that.
Not proofreading so use your imagination for any strange words above.
Actually, there are two facets of your comment that are completely wrong. As I tried to reexplain I didn't mean 95% of the players must be happy. I meant that backers are intended to only make up five percent of the servers population. Thus it is in SBS's best interest to make sure players after launch enjoys the game and receive the promised features.
Secondly, I am not an idiot that spends my hard earned money on blind faith. You make assumptions that I just except Caspian's word without question, which couldn't be farther from the truth. Instead, I have examined and questioned all the intended features and can visualize how they are meant to work together. Unlike you, I don't simply disregard the features that work against my theory, such as launch players being able to acquire other player's possessions when making my analysis of the games strengths and weakness'
Why we have a disconnect is really very simple. I want to see the game succeed, and you want to see it fail. Insulting my intelligence doesn't make this fact any less true.
Actually this was your exact quote:
"The thing I noticed that you failed to recognize in my entire post is that without the 95% of happy players after launch, there is no game for anyone to play."
Which somehow you now explain did not mean 95% of the players must be happy.
Umm OK. We'll just leave that there.
For part 2 I never said you were an idiot, nor that believing on faith was less valid than relying on facts and logic. I am truly sorry you feel that way. It means that I will never be able to convince you of other than your most fervent belief in what Caspien has told you.
For the record, I do not simply "disregard the features that work against my theory". I evaluate them against what the most likely outcome is and make a decision based on facts and experience not emotion, nor hope, nor any other dream. Other than them originally hitting their KS goal.. what have I been wrong about? I can list a crap load that I have been right about. I long list of items that Caspien said that turned out not to materialize...
Do we want to talk about Gantt charts or Elyria Mud? Maybe Vox Elyria? How about SpatialOS? I even called him deciding to leave the Dukes and Counts open for sale before he announced it...
Ignore the Harbinger at your own peril
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There's no set expiration date for the items purchased.
As much as so many like to point out that these items won't remain in the original owner's possession or will be destroyed relatively quickly, you have nothing that guarantees any of that happening. Nothing at all. Depending upon the details of the game mechanics, it could end up being very possible that these folks retain the advantages given for a long time. That's why most devs generally refrain from allowing players to purchase such items in this manner.
Including them also puts the devs in the precarious position of making the ownership resilient enough to seem like it wasn't a complete waste of money. Contrary to popular mantra, most crowdfunding backers aren't throwing hundreds of thousands at your game out of goodwill alone. They are enticed by what that amount buys them. If it turns out it bought them two weeks, they're not gonna be happy.
Please quantity "long time"? I am not trying to be difficult about it. What in your opinion is the maximum time frame that such an advantage can be allowed to last without disrupting the experience for new players to such an extent that the game fails?
As for the rest, I mostly agree. There is definitely a risk of overstocking the pre-pay advantage. An expiry date would be a good idea but you make the argument that a "long term" guarantee is needed to make a purchase attractive enough in the first place. Catch-22 isn't it?
So where does that leave us? Given lack of alternative financing there is no other option. There is a simple choice; (1) use cash shop to build game or (2) no game. And for (1) to work, according to you, backers want a minimum period in which to enjoy their advantage. So following your logic SBS have no choice if they want to produce the game.
Ideally we need a calculation/estimate as to what quantity/value is currently held by backers and what the daily churn post-launch will be. Given that all characters must maintain themselves 24/7 real time I suspect that churn will be quite high.
As for backers being upset if they lose their stuff? They would need to suck it up because SBS has told all backers, right from day one that you can lose your shit to other players.
The fact that players can take your possessions after launch is a crucial part of their design, but it doesn't mean that it will happen quickly or in any predetermined amount of time, It is dependent on many factors. For example, It will take less time and strategizing to steal a backer's horse then it will to overthrow a Kingdom. The bigger the reward you seek, the harder it will be to acquire, but that is the game! To set your sights on what you want in the game, the try to obtain it with your wits and the tools we are given.
The part of the game I feel is so often overlooked, even by some in the CoE community, is the entire pretense of what CoE is doing is to create the 10 year Story, that is written by the players. The backers of SBS are only chapter one in the Story. The starting conflict, collaboration, envy, greed, and ambition are being created by the inequality of the backers and launch players. The ability to acquire the possession of others allows for the games to begin.
This is how I perceive what SBS is trying to do, and I believe the mechanics they have shared with us support the kind of game they are trying to make. I am not naive to the fact that most of what we know is theory right now, and a lot can change before launch. But I don't believe SBS is going to totally change the core principles of the game.
Will they succeed? I don't think any of us know the answer to that right now.
@Slapshot, you are also known to use your NDA knowledge when making your so-called predictions so people can take that for what it is worth.
So Caspien told the NDA people that his Gannt Chart was bullshit? Or that Elyria Mud was a waste of time and resources? Or that Vox Elyria was a waste of time and resources? Or that He was going to waste a year's development on SpatialOS? That it would be going into 2020 and still no players? That he would extend the Duke and Count sales indefinitely? That he would outright sell Legendary items for cash? (predicted over a year ago) Which was based on NDA info?
Not sure what NDA stuff I used to make any predictions... but perhaps you could clarify.
Ignore the Harbinger at your own peril
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Quote "I expect them to soon announce that they are opening “VoxElyria” to the highest donors. It will be under NDA and likely simply consist of moving your Creepers around in a Minecraft environment. Probably a few dozen people. This will be hailed as a great success and major milestone and be accompanied by a made up “Lore” event to support a limited time sale."
Everything predicted in this comment was discussed in the NDA forums a couple days prior except for the lore event and limited time sale. You added that part in to make it sound better...
The same as the Noble packages returning to the store were discussed in NDA first.
Quote "I expect them to soon announce that they are opening “VoxElyria” to the highest donors. It will be under NDA and likely simply consist of moving your Creepers around in a Minecraft environment. Probably a few dozen people. This will be hailed as a great success and major milestone and be accompanied by a made up “Lore” event to support a limited time sale."
Everything predicted in this comment was discussed in the NDA forums a couple days prior. Of course, those involved in those forums understand that not everything talked about there is going to come to pass.
The same as the Noble packages returning to the store were discussed in NDA first.
These *may* have been discussed in NDA forums, but it is clear to me that Noble packages are again on sale. I'm definitely not NDA (nobody tells me anything ).
So, how does the presence of a discussion on an NDA-protected forum change a prediction on an open forum? It's a matter of precedence; which came first. If you have date and time stamps of both @Slapshot1188's predictions and the NDA-protected discussions, you'd have that answer. And there's no way you could show anyone who's not under the NDA the NDA information without breaking the NDA yourself.
In this instance, I think @Slapshot1188 has earned enough credibility to trust him at his word.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Umm... you actually found a quote where I was wrong. Obviously not using NDA info. It was a guess based on time and proved to be wrong as no player ever got to join the mystical VoxElyria... did they
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@Mendal... Yes, you are aware now that noble packages have returned. However, this was discussed beforehand under NDA. Hence the source of said prediction.
@Slapshot, your bad I guess for not completely understanding those discussions under NDA are always subject to change. Hence the purpose of discussion.
@Mendal... Yes, you are aware now that noble packages have returned. However, this was discussed beforehand under NDA. Hence the source of said prediction.
Beforehand? Like I suggested above, you'd need some dates and times for the NDA discussion AND for Slapshot's discussion to prove that. You haven't provided those.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Now we all know exactly how many more Noble packages are available for purchase. And with Domain Selection scheduled to be the next milestone. I think this is the last we are going to see these packages for sale.
Anyhow.. as fun as this trip down NDA lane has been...
How about that cash shop? Any guesses about what will be sold next?
I'm going to suggest a festive outfit that merges the two sides:
Mystic Slappy's Hazy Harbinger Robes of Hope and Prophecy
Seriously though, these conversations would be a lot more interesting if they'd ever finally just get something out there for people to actually see. It's all just tires spinning in mud until then... as amusing as it is to watch the back-and-forth.
Hopefully, at some point, there will actually be some type of gameplay footage or something, at least.
@Mendal... Yes, you are aware now that noble packages have returned. However, this was discussed beforehand under NDA. Hence the source of said prediction.
Beforehand? Like I suggested above, you'd need some dates and times for the NDA discussion AND for Slapshot's discussion to prove that. You haven't provided those.
I think the fact that a King backer called him on it and I witnessed, also having access to NDA is enough evidence to make my point. I have no intention of trying to prove anything any further, it is totally up to the readers what they want to do with it.
Comments
Yes, SBS was turned down by some investors and they turned down others due to the Investors wanting to change the scope of the game. It was the business decision they felt most comfortable with.
The sales were of no surprise to me either now that server selection has transpired and they have a better idea of how many of those positions still exist on each server.
Legendary, in this case simply means it is a historic location.
One thing I know for sure is Caspian can't make anyone support his game financially if they don't want too, no matter what he puts in the store. If people are overspending in an attempt to better secure themselves in-game, I say go for it. Because in reality, it only gives them more to protect, maintain, and lose after launch. Assuming the intended mechanics are implemented into the game, of course.
The thing I noticed that you failed to recognize in my entire post is that without the 95% of happy players after launch, there is no game for anyone to play.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Let me explain this better. I know full well you won't have the complete player base happy with your product no matter what the game is. However, I do see how what I said could be perceived that way...
We will go with your numbers as to there is only 20k backer support currently. Spread over 4 servers. Each server has six Kingdoms and 301 Noble seats per Kindom resulting in1806 Noble seats in each server. Divided equally for argument sake they would have 5K Exposition players per server. With packages ranging from bloodline and up so those players will be focused on other aspects of the game, and not all Nobility, plus spread across the entire map.
On a map that large those 5k Expo players will be spread out pretty thin. The hope, and perhaps it is a leap of faith on the communities part, is to eventually, over time acquire enough interest in the game to support servers with a minimum of 95k player base each. Is it possible? I hope so, but I am aware it is a bit of a reach and won't be accomplished overnight. In addition, to CoE having to prove themselves. I count a lot on commitment over time, the fact that once Roleplayers find a place they are happy, they bring all their friends and they tend to bounce from game to game a lot less, which creates loyalty and return business.
This leads me to my point once again, that without focusing on encouraging and rewarding gameplay for players after launch, it really doesn't matter what is spent now because there would definitely be no chance at a game after launch...
Simply assuming game mechanics that support the intention of the game aren't going to exist, because someone has decided that SBS isn't doing that. Doesn't make it true.
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As your statement implies it is common Knowledge to assume there will not be changes through-out a game development, is naive. I also agree. However, disregarding intended, core game mechanics, with nothing to support your statement except a desire to win a debate, goes above and beyond Skepticism.
In essence- Mystic you better hope you are wrong that the game will fail unless 95% of the players are happy at launch. Name one FFA PvP game with looting that launched in the last decade with numbers like that. Or 90.. 80... 50?
This game is going to have a rough launch even by MMORPG standards. It’s going to have bugs, imbalances, exploits... all the normal launch issues. Not really much related to the OP but I think it’s an interesting path you have taken us down. You can’t argue facts or logic with faith and that’s why we have a disconnect in my opinion. You can accept what Caspien says without questioning the how of it. I’m an engineer by trade so it’s utterly against my nature to do that.
Not proofreading so use your imagination for any strange words above.
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As for the rest, I mostly agree. There is definitely a risk of overstocking the pre-pay advantage. An expiry date would be a good idea but you make the argument that a "long term" guarantee is needed to make a purchase attractive enough in the first place. Catch-22 isn't it?
So where does that leave us? Given lack of alternative financing there is no other option. There is a simple choice; (1) use cash shop to build game or (2) no game. And for (1) to work, according to you, backers want a minimum period in which to enjoy their advantage. So following your logic SBS have no choice if they want to produce the game.
Ideally we need a calculation/estimate as to what quantity/value is currently held by backers and what the daily churn post-launch will be. Given that all characters must maintain themselves 24/7 real time I suspect that churn will be quite high.
When you include that third option, you can then acknowledge that just because a practice works to garner funds, it doesn't necessarily mean it's an equitable and non-manipulative way to garner those funds. The ends do not justify any and all means.
If you went into this hoping it would get made and contributing your money, you had to (or should have) realize(d) that the game may not actually be attractive enough to bring to market. Your (or anyone else) backing it does not make it a market imperative that this development is completed. It certainly doesn't absolve SBS of any responsibility for the way they generate those funds from backers. If you see pushback from folks about selling powerful titles and items, you should accept that the pushback is actually a direct result of extreme funding efforts by SBS and may, in and of itself, cripple long-term efforts to complete the game.
Secondly, I am not an idiot that spends my hard earned money on blind faith. You make assumptions that I just except Caspian's word without question, which couldn't be farther from the truth. Instead, I have examined and questioned all the intended features and can visualize how they are meant to work together. Unlike you, I don't simply disregard the features that work against my theory, such as launch players being able to acquire other player's possessions when making my analysis of the games strengths and weakness'
Why we have a disconnect is really very simple. I want to see the game succeed, and you want to see it fail. Insulting my intelligence doesn't make this fact any less true.
"The thing I noticed that you failed to recognize in my entire post is that without the 95% of happy players after launch, there is no game for anyone to play."
Which somehow you now explain did not mean 95% of the players must be happy.
Umm OK. We'll just leave that there.
For part 2 I never said you were an idiot, nor that believing on faith was less valid than relying on facts and logic. I am truly sorry you feel that way. It means that I will never be able to convince you of other than your most fervent belief in what Caspien has told you.
For the record, I do not simply "disregard the features that work against my theory". I evaluate them against what the most likely outcome is and make a decision based on facts and experience not emotion, nor hope, nor any other dream. Other than them originally hitting their KS goal.. what have I been wrong about? I can list a crap load that I have been right about. I long list of items that Caspien said that turned out not to materialize...
Do we want to talk about Gantt charts or Elyria Mud? Maybe Vox Elyria? How about SpatialOS? I even called him deciding to leave the Dukes and Counts open for sale before he announced it...
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The fact that players can take your possessions after launch is a crucial part of their design, but it doesn't mean that it will happen quickly or in any predetermined amount of time, It is dependent on many factors. For example, It will take less time and strategizing to steal a backer's horse then it will to overthrow a Kingdom. The bigger the reward you seek, the harder it will be to acquire, but that is the game! To set your sights on what you want in the game, the try to obtain it with your wits and the tools we are given.
The part of the game I feel is so often overlooked, even by some in the CoE community, is the entire pretense of what CoE is doing is to create the 10 year Story, that is written by the players. The backers of SBS are only chapter one in the Story. The starting conflict, collaboration, envy, greed, and ambition are being created by the inequality of the backers and launch players. The ability to acquire the possession of others allows for the games to begin.
This is how I perceive what SBS is trying to do, and I believe the mechanics they have shared with us support the kind of game they are trying to make. I am not naive to the fact that most of what we know is theory right now, and a lot can change before launch. But I don't believe SBS is going to totally change the core principles of the game.
Will they succeed? I don't think any of us know the answer to that right now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Or that Elyria Mud was a waste of time and resources?
Or that Vox Elyria was a waste of time and resources?
Or that He was going to waste a year's development on SpatialOS?
That it would be going into 2020 and still no players?
That he would extend the Duke and Count sales indefinitely?
That he would outright sell Legendary items for cash? (predicted over a year ago)
Which was based on NDA info?
Not sure what NDA stuff I used to make any predictions... but perhaps you could clarify.
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All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Quote "I expect them to soon announce that they are opening “VoxElyria” to the highest donors. It will be under NDA and likely simply consist of moving your Creepers around in a Minecraft environment. Probably a few dozen people. This will be hailed as a great success and major milestone and be accompanied by a made up “Lore” event to support a limited time sale."
Everything predicted in this comment was discussed in the NDA forums a couple days prior except for the lore event and limited time sale. You added that part in to make it sound better...
The same as the Noble packages returning to the store were discussed in NDA first.
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7323233/#Comment_7323233
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@Slapshot, your bad I guess for not completely understanding those discussions under NDA are always subject to change. Hence the purpose of discussion.
How about that cash shop?
Any guesses about what will be sold next?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/29699/nobility-packages-limited-rerelease