EverQuest: The Burning Lands Expansion Review

SBFord · December 2018

EverQuest: The Burning Lands Expansion Review

Since 1999 EverQuest has brought the world of Norrath to the land of the internet and it’s still going to this day. Enter its 25th expansion, The Burning Lands. With it comes new zones, raids, quests, spells, abilities, collections and perhaps most interesting of all a new Stat, Luck. This is our review of EverQuest: The Burning Lands.

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Thupli · December 2018

Interesting that they kept the same level cap as the old expansion. I think other games could learn from this.

Sovrath · December 2018

Thupli said:

Interesting that they kept the same level cap as the old expansion. I think other games could learn from this.

I'll have to disagree with that. Part of the fun is leveling. I suppose the new "items" are in lieu of leveling? I always fight myself with this game. Maybe I should just take the plunge and really do it.

JeffSpicoli · December 2018

I like leveling as long as MMO's treat it like its actual content and not a long drawn out tutorial to what you will be doing at end game which is what everything feels like lately.

Sovrath · December 2018

Raserei said:

MMO's in general need to stop increasing level caps. Leveling is tedious and should be the learning process. Level cap should be where the actual game evolves. "End game" is a bad terminology. More like "The game"...... I don't know how many MMO's I played where you level up, takes ages, tedious repetitive, and when you reach the level cap, the game falls flat on its face. The same formula over and over.

The entire game should be designed around a level cap where the game actually starts, not where you do one raid until the next level cap increase and do the next raid. In fact, MMO's should just remove levels all together and create massive sandbox worlds to explore and enjoy through a well crafted loot system, economy, travel system, and pretty environments.

Unfortunately, after WoW, most MMOs follow the same formula. Level to cap, raid, then wait until the next patch/expansion. zzZZzzZZzz Which is why I stopped playing MMORPG's and switched to ARPG's like Path of Exile and Diablo and Chronicon and Grim Dawn...

They are mutally exclusive.

There is a difference between leveling and leveling-nowdoraid-levelagain-nowdoraid

I wouldn't mind "flatter" leveling where one gets different skills and those skills can be leveled a bit and morphed and perhaps have different effects with other skills/actions.

Or maybe something like Dark Souls where you can raise attributes.

Amathe · December 2018

I could have used Luck as a stat back in the day. Every time it really, really mattered I could be counted on to roll a 2.

Wizardry · December 2018

It is just more of the exact same,the game is big,does exactly what Wow does and more but just like Wow and clones never evolved.
Not just DBG but also SOE SHOULD realize that when numbers are way down,you NEED to change something or improve the game.
However seeing how DBG is going to operate,i would not expect ANY kind of creative game development,they will just let the few SOE survivors do their thing repeating same old.

Sovrath · December 2018

Wizardry said:

It is just more of the exact same,the game is big,does exactly what Wow does and more but just like Wow and clones never evolved.
Not just DBG but also SOE SHOULD realize that when numbers are way down,you NEED to change something or improve the game.
However seeing how DBG is going to operate,i would not expect ANY kind of creative game development,they will just let the few SOE survivors do their thing repeating same old.

It probably shouldn't evolve. The more it changes the greater the possibility that it will lose its player base.

And apparently World of Warcraft did evolve if you have players clamoring for classic servers.

Hashbrick · December 2018

Sovrath said:

Wizardry said:

It is just more of the exact same,the game is big,does exactly what Wow does and more but just like Wow and clones never evolved.
Not just DBG but also SOE SHOULD realize that when numbers are way down,you NEED to change something or improve the game.
However seeing how DBG is going to operate,i would not expect ANY kind of creative game development,they will just let the few SOE survivors do their thing repeating same old.

It probably shouldn't evolve. The more it changes the greater the possibility that it will lose its player base.

And apparently World of Warcraft did evolve if you have players clamoring for classic servers.

Exactly this. Evolving for the market is dooming your game. EQ has nothing to prove, they were one of the many "firsts" in the genre and will still be loved by many, enough to keep the lights on and then some.

Mendel · December 2018

Twenty five expansions, and we're still hearing the 'graphics limitation' excuse? It seems to me, that a zoned game like EQ1 *could* actually use a different graphics engine in every single zone (or expansion or continent). Maybe it makes the loading process a bit excessive, but the current EQ1 players would probably overlook that.

I fear that developing a new graphics engine (and models and skins and UIs and other graphical elements) might be far beyond the technical abilities of the current product custodians, though.

Amathe · December 2018

Another thing about EQ, it was always full of things off in the distance that make you go "What is that? That looks mysterious. I want to go check that out." Looks like they still design it that way. I remember the whole time I was in the Faydark newbie yard I just KNEW there must be something more out there in the misty forest.

Sovrath · December 2018

Mendel said:

Twenty five expansions, and we're still hearing the 'graphics limitation' excuse? It seems to me, that a zoned game like EQ1 *could* actually use a different graphics engine in every single zone (or expansion or continent). Maybe it makes the loading process a bit excessive, but the current EQ1 players would probably overlook that.

I fear that developing a new graphics engine (and models and skins and UIs and other graphical elements) might be far beyond the technical abilities of the current product custodians, though.

Even if it wasn't beyond their capacity, it still takes money to do that.

So they spend x amount of dollars to upgrade the graphics significantly. What does that get them? Are they going to be able to make that back?

If they don't spend those dollars will they lose people?

These are the things that must be considered. Spending thousands of dollars for no return and no increase in players isn't going to be worth it.

Now, as a way of just making their product "look better" I can see them wanting to do it, but given they aren't Blizzard and that Everquest is a very old game, it just might not be worth it or the budget might not be there.

Mendel · December 2018

Sovrath said:

Mendel said:

Twenty five expansions, and we're still hearing the 'graphics limitation' excuse? It seems to me, that a zoned game like EQ1 *could* actually use a different graphics engine in every single zone (or expansion or continent). Maybe it makes the loading process a bit excessive, but the current EQ1 players would probably overlook that.

I fear that developing a new graphics engine (and models and skins and UIs and other graphical elements) might be far beyond the technical abilities of the current product custodians, though.

Even if it wasn't beyond their capacity, it still takes money to do that.

So they spend x amount of dollars to upgrade the graphics significantly. What does that get them? Are they going to be able to make that back?

If they don't spend those dollars will they lose people?

These are the things that must be considered. Spending thousands of dollars for no return and no increase in players isn't going to be worth it.

Now, as a way of just making their product "look better" I can see them wanting to do it, but given they aren't Blizzard and that Everquest is a very old game, it just might not be worth it or the budget might not be there.

Credit to them (somewhat, anyway) that Daybreak hasn't scraped the bottom of the barrel and introduced several communal funding efforts to fund an evolution of an old project. At least Daybreak has shown itself willing to let an old, beloved game die on the vine, and refused to throw money at a perceived problem. After all, people have been asking for a version of EQ1 with modern graphics for almost as long as EQ1 has been on the market.

I totally agree that the budget and market may not be there for a revamped EQ1. Is it really such a stretch that other projects in development are going to face the exact same situation/issue/problem trying to market another old-school game to the modern gamer? It seems to me that Pantheon's total developmental cost may end up being the best indicator for the cost of simply refurbishing the graphic elements in EQ1. Daybreak (probably) doesn't have that money, and probably don't want to spend it if they do. Like you pointed out, they already tap the EQ1 market segment; there might not be any new revenue from it.

My point was, that if SOE had wanted to, they could have made significant upgrades to the graphics engine along the way. There's already a direct one-way zone between Oceangreen Hills and West Karana -- that's quite a stylistic jump between the two zones. That ship hasn't sailed completely, but they could have tried to pass WoW's standards in incremental ways. They did do one mostly complete rehaul of the graphics, with Luclin, and even invested in rebuilding some creature models and older zones using newer graphics techniques. SOE never really invested in their graphics engine beyond a certain point. I'm pretty sure that was a financial decision, not a technology driven issue.

Like you asked, is there money in it? I don't know, but the way people seem to be throwing money at new projects, there just might be some way to recoup that investment.

Anyway, good discussion.

Xiaoki · December 2018

Sovrath said:

Wizardry said:

It is just more of the exact same,the game is big,does exactly what Wow does and more but just like Wow and clones never evolved.
Not just DBG but also SOE SHOULD realize that when numbers are way down,you NEED to change something or improve the game.
However seeing how DBG is going to operate,i would not expect ANY kind of creative game development,they will just let the few SOE survivors do their thing repeating same old.

It probably shouldn't evolve. The more it changes the greater the possibility that it will lose its player base.

And apparently World of Warcraft did evolve if you have players clamoring for classic servers.

WoW was able to stay relevant in 2018 because it constantly changed and evolved.

When was the last time EQ2 was relevant? 2006?

gervaise1 · December 2018

Given the head count reductions at DBG that took place after this expsnsion I think the question is: how long will it be before 26? And if 26 is ever announced I doubt anyone will expect anything different.

As to whether WoW or EQ2 are relevant today - not going there.

Tokken · December 2018

They need to let this game die. seriously. it's so old, it's an antique....we need some new mmorpg's in the genre.

epoq · December 2018

Tokken said:

They need to let this game die. seriously. it's so old, it's an antique....we need some new mmorpg's in the genre.

EQ1 and EQ2. Shame it was EQNext that never made it and these old games are still chugging along. No doubt my favorite MMO of all time - but I just can't even consider playing it again no matter what they do to it.

Kappadonna · December 2018

Sovrath said:

Mendel said:

Twenty five expansions, and we're still hearing the 'graphics limitation' excuse? It seems to me, that a zoned game like EQ1 *could* actually use a different graphics engine in every single zone (or expansion or continent). Maybe it makes the loading process a bit excessive, but the current EQ1 players would probably overlook that.

I fear that developing a new graphics engine (and models and skins and UIs and other graphical elements) might be far beyond the technical abilities of the current product custodians, though.

Even if it wasn't beyond their capacity, it still takes money to do that.

So they spend x amount of dollars to upgrade the graphics significantly. What does that get them? Are they going to be able to make that back?

If they don't spend those dollars will they lose people?

These are the things that must be considered. Spending thousands of dollars for no return and no increase in players isn't going to be worth it.

Now, as a way of just making their product "look better" I can see them wanting to do it, but given they aren't Blizzard and that Everquest is a very old game, it just might not be worth it or the budget might not be there.

Points on both sides, but you also have to ask: If they did create a new graphics engine in the year 2019 (or so), would that bring in NEW players? The answer is YES. How many? No idea, but we are in the midst of a major nostalgia wave in media right now (games, movies specifically). And the MMORPG market is in a massive slump with not a whole lot of new games on the horizon over the next few years. I'd argue that taking a classic like EQ1, which many people swear by, would create a welcome mat for an influx of new players. Most will only play temporarily, but some would stay, possibly bringing their friends along for the ride.

EQ is unique in that it would have the power to attract new players with a graphics overhaul. Other, less popular games from that era, such as AO, Shadowbane (if its even still around), and even some of the early to mid 2000's MMOs don't have the clout that Everquest does. EQ and UO remain the two grandfather MMORPGs, eclipsed really only by WoW. EQ's main issue is that it still uses SOE Accounts/Login (or did last I checked) and no one likes dealing with that nightmare. Just a thought.

Malathoos · December 2018

People talk about a new graphics engine... They already have one, EQNext. If they took EQ and ported it to the EQNext engine, i would throw money at them. Keep almost everything the same and i would be in. they already have the content i wonder how much it would really take to move stuff over. Heck release the original everquest zones and classes with a low level cap. Wish the EQ IP would flourish again

Sovrath · December 2018

Tokken said:

They need to let this game die. seriously. it's so old, it's an antique....we need some new mmorpg's in the genre.

Yet downloading now ...

JeroKane · December 2018

Mendel said:

Twenty five expansions, and we're still hearing the 'graphics limitation' excuse? It seems to me, that a zoned game like EQ1 *could* actually use a different graphics engine in every single zone (or expansion or continent). Maybe it makes the loading process a bit excessive, but the current EQ1 players would probably overlook that.

I fear that developing a new graphics engine (and models and skins and UIs and other graphical elements) might be far beyond the technical abilities of the current product custodians, though.

The ones that still play EQ1 today could care less about the graphics. They play because of the community. It's a very tightknit community.

What you are asking is basically developing a new game from scratch. That will take years and a huge amount of money. Daybreak doesn't have that kind of money, let alone the competence in house and their new owners only care about Mobile games and Micro Transaction / Loot box F2P trash games.

Thasaman999 · December 2018

Tokken said:

They need to let this game die. seriously. it's so old, it's an antique....we need some new mmorpg's in the genre.

After leaving eq1 twelve years ago am back and resubbed last month for 6 months...........and loving it.

Eq1 has that charm that you just want to come back to. Sure the graphics are very outdated in older zones but the charm and complexity of the game is still awesome.

brandedwolf · December 2018

Sovrath said:

Tokken said:

They need to let this game die. seriously. it's so old, it's an antique....we need some new mmorpg's in the genre.

Yet downloading now ...

Doing the review has me playing again. I'm tempted to finally try a progression server.

Sovrath · December 2018

Xiaoki said:

Sovrath said:

Wizardry said:

It is just more of the exact same,the game is big,does exactly what Wow does and more but just like Wow and clones never evolved.
Not just DBG but also SOE SHOULD realize that when numbers are way down,you NEED to change something or improve the game.
However seeing how DBG is going to operate,i would not expect ANY kind of creative game development,they will just let the few SOE survivors do their thing repeating same old.

It probably shouldn't evolve. The more it changes the greater the possibility that it will lose its player base.

And apparently World of Warcraft did evolve if you have players clamoring for classic servers.

WoW was able to stay relevant in 2018 because it constantly changed and evolved.

When was the last time EQ2 was relevant? 2006?

World of Warcraft has millions of players and gets a HUGE amount of money. They can afford to upgrade and "stay relevant" graphically. As long as millions of players are playing they can invest in keeping them.

Everquest does not. At it's zenith it had several hundred thousand players.

How many play now?

kitarad · December 2018

If Everquest was a cow I would hate to see its tits.

Wizardry · December 2018

Sovrath said:

Xiaoki said:

Sovrath said:

Wizardry said:

It is just more of the exact same,the game is big,does exactly what Wow does and more but just like Wow and clones never evolved.
Not just DBG but also SOE SHOULD realize that when numbers are way down,you NEED to change something or improve the game.
However seeing how DBG is going to operate,i would not expect ANY kind of creative game development,they will just let the few SOE survivors do their thing repeating same old.

It probably shouldn't evolve. The more it changes the greater the possibility that it will lose its player base.

And apparently World of Warcraft did evolve if you have players clamoring for classic servers.

WoW was able to stay relevant in 2018 because it constantly changed and evolved.

When was the last time EQ2 was relevant? 2006?

World of Warcraft has millions of players and gets a HUGE amount of money. They can afford to upgrade and "stay relevant" graphically. As long as millions of players are playing they can invest in keeping them.

Everquest does not. At it's zenith it had several hundred thousand players.

How many play now?

Well this is VERY good reason to ask then WHY did DBG buy this outfit?
Also it is telling you time to CHANGE.
I would also say that if this team has learned anything over the years,use that talent to create a NEW IP a new game.
The problem as i see it is this is now a MUCH smaller team and DBG is not really about INVESTING into the future,they want to instead soak up whatever money they can get out of their portfolio with as little effort as possible.
I personally would not continue when there is little to no interest.A SMART business knows when and how to reinvest into the business,you also need to move forward and not sit on your laurels.Obviously MOST of this problem started before DBG,it was poorly run by Smedley.

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EverQuest: The Burning Lands Expansion Review

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EverQuest: The Burning Lands Expansion Review

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Aloha Mr Hand !

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