Open a vote for a server for non-pvp. Just gather craft and build a house like minecraft.
But why not just play Minecraft if you want something like that? Indivisually, Minecraft does THAT much better than this game. Take away all of the other factors and its an inferior version of what Minecraft and Terarria does better. PVP, PK all of that is part of the experience. The frustration, the immersion. PKers are the in-game version of bandits from real life. How did we figure out how to migitate the damage bandits did back in our past? By forming guilds formed to protect the kings' subjects (like Knights if you will)
The NOOB comic strip had several priceless pieces on the hilarity of trying to raise a player "defense force", here is one.
People found a way to be annoying and rude to others when they learned how to train a bunch of mobs onto players then logout.The problem with trying to create realism in a game is that there is NO perma death or risk to your actions.
Like in a real world situation,you try and come up on people to kill them,you might just die yourself but dying in a mmo is like lol pointless.So there is more incentive to annoying other players than to not because even if they did die,so what? Yes i realize there were bandits,thugs,bank robbers in the old days but NOT the entire population was flagged to be a pvp'r.So there should be a point a reason to why and what makes a player a PK'r.
Example you would pick from the start to be a bandit,this flags you as an outlaw to the law inside of cities and perhaps a marshal/s on the trail as well.Others might be flagged as a homestead type player,others might be part of the town function as a store attendant or part of a gun for hire to track down the bandits.Some might simply be farmers,there should be a realistic economy,each player has to do something to survive or starve.
In other words,these games need to start acting like a role plying game and less like leveling treadmills with pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
How about they just deal or leave?
I mean unless this game Developer did some douche move like didn't tell people it's Open World, Full Loot, PvP, why are they even here to start with?
Equally so.. IF the developer Didn't tell them.. why the hell would they want to play the game of someone that pulls that kind of douche move?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
A one-time permanent pvp toggle. Pvp enabled players get some benefits/rewards for the added risk, pve players, crafters, socializers can enjoy the game how they like it. It could be added lifepool, extra runspeed, better vendor prices .. whatever.
Or the simple solution which is already comming sometime, servers with rulesets that prevents or limits free pvp.
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
How about they just deal or leave?
I mean unless this game Developer did some douche move like didn't tell people it's Open World, Full Loot, PvP, why are they even here to start with?
Equally so.. IF the developer Didn't tell them.. why the hell would they want to play the game of someone that pulls that kind of douche move?
I believe the topic of the OP was a suggestion the players "deal" with the "problem" of PKing, recommending they join together to protect or police themselves.
I pointed out this has been tried before going all the way back to the days of MUDs and UO, never successfully working in any game I saw it attempted. (L1, L2, DAOC, SB and EVE)
I'm a carebear who has been playing and dealing with PKing forever, and it defintely makes a difference how well the devs implement systems to let me control my level of risk, evade ganking, or even band together for safety, which EVE is one of the best.
Again, not playing is not a valid option, unless of course the devs arent interested in my money in which the devs dont have to make any compensating controls.
Which explains why I and many others didn't play games like Darkfall or MO, and we see how well they faired in terms of retaining a player base.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
Wow.
No, WOW PVE servers were a terrible idea, so is it's current flagging system, the old PVP servers were somewhat decent, I almost always played on one.
As I said, completely turning off PVP is no solution at all to the actual question / problem, neither is just not playing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
How about they just deal or leave?
I mean unless this game Developer did some douche move like didn't tell people it's Open World, Full Loot, PvP, why are they even here to start with?
Equally so.. IF the developer Didn't tell them.. why the hell would they want to play the game of someone that pulls that kind of douche move?
I believe the topic of the OP was a suggestion the players "deal" with the "problem" of PKing, recommending they join together to protect or police themselves.
I pointed out this has been tried before going all the way back to the days of MUDs and UO, never successfully working in any game I saw it attempted. (L1, L2, DAOC, SB and EVE)
I'm a carebear who has been playing and dealing with PKing forever, and it defintely makes a difference how well the devs implement systems to let me control my level of risk, evade ganking, or even band together for safety, which EVE is one of the best.
Again, not playing is not a valid option, unless of course the devs arent interested in my money in which the devs dont have to make any compensating controls.
Which explains why I and many others didn't play games like Darkfall or MO, and we see how well they faired in terms of retaining a player base.
According to your comments above you shouldn't be playing multiplayer games at all since, you know, griefing happens anywhere with a PVPer.
Being able to opt in using factions that you can leave/join or just flagging pvp off and on is the only real solution. Even EVE, as you so graciously pointed out, has a high level of actual pvp griefing risk, not just normal grief of the average multiplayer game, but actual PVP in high sec.
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
Wow.
No, WOW PVE servers were a terrible idea, so is it's current flagging system, the old PVP servers were somewhat decent, I almost always played on one.
As I said, completely turning off PVP is no solution at all to the actual question / problem, neither is just not playing.
It was a "Wow, I can't believe you're that dense". Not a "World of Warcraft" wow.
From what I have seen of this sort of idea before, it always works at least partially if not fully in the short term and fails in the long term. But the long term might be as long as a year and that's all you play it for.
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
How about they just deal or leave?
I mean unless this game Developer did some douche move like didn't tell people it's Open World, Full Loot, PvP, why are they even here to start with?
Equally so.. IF the developer Didn't tell them.. why the hell would they want to play the game of someone that pulls that kind of douche move?
I believe the topic of the OP was a suggestion the players "deal" with the "problem" of PKing, recommending they join together to protect or police themselves.
I pointed out this has been tried before going all the way back to the days of MUDs and UO, never successfully working in any game I saw it attempted. (L1, L2, DAOC, SB and EVE)
I'm a carebear who has been playing and dealing with PKing forever, and it defintely makes a difference how well the devs implement systems to let me control my level of risk, evade ganking, or even band together for safety, which EVE is one of the best.
Again, not playing is not a valid option, unless of course the devs arent interested in my money in which the devs dont have to make any compensating controls.
Which explains why I and many others didn't play games like Darkfall or MO, and we see how well they faired in terms of retaining a player base.
Well I have expressed many times on this forums that "Not Playing" is always an option, and that games are better served finding a loyal niche' of players then trying to please everyone.
And, as I have also said, a large part of game design is knowing who to market your game to, and the size of said demographic. If you see a lot of similar games failing, you might want to reconsider your whole design and if that is the case, then this is a problem the Devs need to solve.
And by that, I mean the Devs need to be the ones to really consider who their target market is, who they want playing their game, and who this game is made for.
If this game is made for players that want Open World PvP, then.. No, they are not looking for anyone else's money, everyone should take the game as it is, and either deal or leave.
If they made this game, this way, that thinking it was going to be the bomb, and it bombed alright, they really need to step back and reconsider their whole game design and market.
Players trying to make safe spaces for other players that do not want to deal with the game as the game is, is a failed idea from the start.
Not that some of the ideas aren't noble, and fun to look at it, but the whole idea of players trying to make the game attractive to players that really have no place in that kind of game to start with, is why the whole plan fails.
This is one of those things where the Devs need to step in and make a decision on "Who is this game for" and what demographic of players they want here. If they want the carebear anti-pvp players in their game, then they need to redesign the game for those players, and understand that this choice will alienate the hardcore pro-pvp crowed they have.. this is a choice they need to make, and there is really no other option.
IMHO.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
1: Asking a group of players to watch someone else mine is ridiculous and boring. The PKs just send a blue (or ghost, even) into the area and if the miners are protected they go hunt elsewhere. While that leaves the miner protected, the PKs are out having fun while a bunch of 'protectors' stand around bored all night.
2: There is no way a single miner or even a group of miners are going to rake in enough cash (or ore) to make 'protecting' financially viable. The help is need in the noob areas and noobs aren't going to be making much money.
3: You underestimate the ability of PKs to form alliances with other PKs - and even large lawful guilds. (often, you've the same players on both sides of the fence). Your theories of justice work in a world where each person has one body and one life, not so well in worlds where people may have dozens of characters spread across multiple accounts.
What has to happen is that people have to read the box before they buy the game. If the ruleset is unappealing, play something else.
1. HELLO SANDBOX! This is what sandbox games are all about. THE PLAYERS solving problems of the game. THE PLAYERS controlling the situations. EVE Online: The biggest sandbox MMORPG on the market does exactly stuff like this. They have learned to form their own governments, and rules. They did not look to the developers to solve every issue. ESPECIALLY not stuff like PKers, a problem that has, AND SHOULD hit every MMORPG that calls itself a sandbox.
2. If thats the case then this is where the developers can patch and update. Not responding to PKers by punishing them in a game that boasts freedom to do and be whatever you want to be. Tweek numbers, alter the frequency of resources nodes ,etc. to make these types of interaction possible.
3. If PKers form their own alliances then FINE. That is ALL part of the dynamic and overall history of the game. That is what makes games like this interesting. Watching players form responses and counter responses to events that happen in the game. This is the reason why EVE Online has a rich history and inspires many new people to want to play the game or at least keep up on the happenings of its world.
1. HELLO SANDBOX! This is what sandbox games are all about. THE PLAYERS solving problems of the game. THE PLAYERS controlling the situations. EVE Online: The biggest sandbox MMORPG on the market does exactly stuff like this. They have learned to form their own governments, and rules. They did not look to the developers to solve every issue. ESPECIALLY not stuff like PKers, a problem that has, AND SHOULD hit every MMORPG that calls itself a sandbox.
2. If thats the case then this is where the developers can patch and update. Not responding to PKers by punishing them in a game that boasts freedom to do and be whatever you want to be. Tweek numbers, alter the frequency of resources nodes ,etc. to make these types of interaction possible.
3. If PKers form their own alliances then FINE. That is ALL part of the dynamic and overall history of the game. That is what makes games like this interesting. Watching players form responses and counter responses to events that happen in the game. This is the reason why EVE Online has a rich history and inspires many new people to want to play the game or at least keep up on the happenings of its world.
Affirming the nature of the game doesn't make it a good game. Again, and this is important: Anyone who doesn't like the rule set shouldn't buy it.
For me the only frustrating thing is that PKs won't acknowledge the inherent advantages of their position or the multiple ways they circumvent the mechanics put in place to even the playing field. For example, the advice to "have a crew to protect you" is circumvented by blue/ghost spies - which leaves me wondering: If you're really about hardcore PvP why do you have spies?
(You personally may not use those tactics but they are very popular)
Better yet, if you think "The Protector" is such an awesome role then why don't the PK guilds form protector guilds instead? Read that again: If that is fun then YOU do it. If you aren't willing to play that role then maybe you're not being honest about what a chore it can be?
It seems to me that PKs, by in large (not you necessarily) like to claim that people should play the way they want to play - but seem to be very comfortable telling other people how they need to play.
That said, I've no skin in this game as I won't be buying it. I've been watching gankfest games for 20 years - I know how this ends.
When you're standing around as a PK with absolutely nothing to do and after several days of that you begin to wonder what went wrong just know that I'm the little voice in the back of your head saying "Told ya so."
Oh, and one other point: Do you want to play a game with people who get off on killing other helpless players? These aren't community builders, by in large, as most of them are the bottom feeders of the internet. So you're building a game for inherently flawed gamers (those that insist on having huge advantage over helpless prey and enjoy that dynamic).
For almost every player and developer attempt to control Pking evil bastards have found ingenious ways to circumvent such systems.
Not the one where players can turn off PvP.
Then you've never been grief trained on solely PVE server, PVPer's are masters at finding a way.....
That's just straight up griefing. Griefing can happen in any multiplayer game regardless, but PVP in a sense of actually attacking other players is a whole different ballgame, and that is what is being discussed.
Right, so suggestions such as having players turn off PVP really isn't a valid solution to the problem, no more than separate servers or not playing the game is.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
Wow.
No, WOW PVE servers were a terrible idea, so is it's current flagging system, the old PVP servers were somewhat decent, I almost always played on one.
As I said, completely turning off PVP is no solution at all to the actual question / problem, neither is just not playing.
It was a "Wow, I can't believe you're that dense". Not a "World of Warcraft" wow.
Yeah, I knew that, just turned it back around realizing you couldn't buy a clue, even on sale.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
L2 had escaped scrolls. Click it, and you were instantly transported to a town. If you were alert you could only be killed if they could one shot you, which couldn't be done if you had decent gear. You were gone when you saw a red name running towards you or got blasted from out of nowhere. Plus red names were open targets to anyone and dropped everything when they died. PK was pretty rare in that game unless you're guild was at war.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You forgot the factor that if you unite, they will unite too.
That isn't my experience in an open pvp game. In open pvp mmos you have to earn a measure of trust and that's done through guilds. If guild go on a PK rampage they'll be tagged KoS. So unless that happens most PKs are lone wolfs or at best might operate in a small 2 or 3 person group at most. Bigger than that and the web of trust breaks down quickly.
If organized guilds are PKing you and everyone around it's typically to establish area control. That behavior rarely persists once they own an area as long as players outside the guild and alliance respect their rule over that area.
In a good open pvp game there should be as many reasons to exist peacefully with a majority of players as there are reasons for fighting those you're at odds with. PvP can be expensive too, if it's well designed, so there is resource management to consider.
All of that should make large organized murder squads rare, but a random PKer more common. A little organizational cooperation like the OP suggests can go a long way to discouraging PKs and sending them onto easier marks.
In most theme park MMOs there are no big consequences for anything so PKs can organize and murder all day long. So what you say is true for themeparks, but not well designed open world games.
Just curious, what is this well designed, open world, pvp centric game you speak of, I need to be playing it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the players that do not want to deal with the game, as the the game is, ought to leave.
Problem solved.
The only problem there is if the devs misjudged the number of folks who would play their niche game. Then not enough money to survive, and the game folds. Ooops....
It’s damn near 2019 dude pve is the smallest niche across all genres. Thus your problem bud.
It's not. Sure, there are very successful PvP online titles and I play them all the time. PvP MMORPGs? OWPvP is still less desirable out the gate and this only magnifies as a title ages.
I like OP's idea, I'm surprised no MMO has ever tried to incorporate a "militia" to counter ganking. There definitely needs to be incentive for random strangers to get involved when someone is getting ganked.
You forgot the factor that if you unite, they will unite too.
That isn't my experience in an open pvp game. In open pvp mmos you have to earn a measure of trust and that's done through guilds. If guild go on a PK rampage they'll be tagged KoS. So unless that happens most PKs are lone wolfs or at best might operate in a small 2 or 3 person group at most. Bigger than that and the web of trust breaks down quickly.
If organized guilds are PKing you and everyone around it's typically to establish area control. That behavior rarely persists once they own an area as long as players outside the guild and alliance respect their rule over that area.
In a good open pvp game there should be as many reasons to exist peacefully with a majority of players as there are reasons for fighting those you're at odds with. PvP can be expensive too, if it's well designed, so there is resource management to consider.
All of that should make large organized murder squads rare, but a random PKer more common. A little organizational cooperation like the OP suggests can go a long way to discouraging PKs and sending them onto easier marks.
In most theme park MMOs there are no big consequences for anything so PKs can organize and murder all day long. So what you say is true for themeparks, but not well designed open world games.
In Aria most of the PKs I have seen are in guilds. They are on voice coms and somewhat organized which gives them a huge edge. They are also the ones initiating the fight so they have the advantage of being prepared with certain spells pre-loaded and minimal equipment to lose if things go bad.
I actually have only had 1 PvP battle so far. My guild was going to perform a ritual to open a certain dungeon area. Our GM is one of the main streamers and does it with no delay so everyone could easily see where we were gathering and how big we were. While we fiddled around trying to figure out how to activate the entrance, an enemy guild obviously stream sniped us and swooped in on us. Utter chaos ensued as we were not prepared. A big chunk of people ported out. We got a few kills but they won the day. My frustration was around the mechanisms that exist. Some of their members were BLUE and they were there to rez or loot. If I wanted to attack them I would take a karma hit. Not sure how to fix that with their current setup. At least they fixed it to prevent blue healing of reds/oranges.
Shortly thereafter (after I logged as it was midnight) my guild reformed and this time being prepared went and wiped them out to the last man.
Aria has HUGE safe zones and you can level very far without ever leaving it. I am roughly 90+ in all the mage skills and 99.9% of my time has been spent in a safe zone. If you want the better rewards, better ores, etc... then you need to step out into the danger. This is as it should be IMHO.
We have a pretty active Discord and when PKs are spotted the word goes out and a semi-dedicated group goes to hunt them down. I'd really advise solo folks to think about joining a guild of some sort.
As a funny side, what some guys in my guild have done is get 1 point in mining and stand in the mines with a pickaxe. When that lone PK pops in for an "easy kill" they find themselves facing a grandmaster warrior or mage.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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The problem is the niche of having MMORPG, pvp, open world and loot.
Pvpers mostly don't like mmorpg. Mmorpg players mostly don't like pvp. Mmorpg pvp players mostly don't like open world pvp. Most people don't like pvp loot.
When you start combining any of these you start to drastically reduce the number of people who are interested.
There's more... I dig full loot open world pvp games, but can't handle the style of game play in aria/UO. I need first or third person 3d control schemes.
The bottom line is if they are aware of the depth of their niche and are fine with it, then so be it. If they want more people interested then they need to take another look.
Comments
Idk how many times I said “you won’t die irl”
Like in a real world situation,you try and come up on people to kill them,you might just die yourself but dying in a mmo is like lol pointless.So there is more incentive to annoying other players than to not because even if they did die,so what?
Yes i realize there were bandits,thugs,bank robbers in the old days but NOT the entire population was flagged to be a pvp'r.So there should be a point a reason to why and what makes a player a PK'r.
Example you would pick from the start to be a bandit,this flags you as an outlaw to the law inside of cities and perhaps a marshal/s on the trail as well.Others might be flagged as a homestead type player,others might be part of the town function as a store attendant or part of a gun for hire to track down the bandits.Some might simply be farmers,there should be a realistic economy,each player has to do something to survive or starve.
In other words,these games need to start acting like a role plying game and less like leveling treadmills with pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The assumption is if there will be PVP...how does one control player behaviors....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean unless this game Developer did some douche move like didn't tell people it's Open World, Full Loot, PvP, why are they even here to start with?
Equally so.. IF the developer Didn't tell them.. why the hell would they want to play the game of someone that pulls that kind of douche move?
It could be added lifepool, extra runspeed, better vendor prices .. whatever.
Or the simple solution which is already comming sometime, servers with rulesets that prevents or limits free pvp.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I pointed out this has been tried before going all the way back to the days of MUDs and UO, never successfully working in any game I saw it attempted. (L1, L2, DAOC, SB and EVE)
I'm a carebear who has been playing and dealing with PKing forever, and it defintely makes a difference how well the devs implement systems to let me control my level of risk, evade ganking, or even band together for safety, which EVE is one of the best.
Again, not playing is not a valid option, unless of course the devs arent interested in my money in which the devs dont have to make any compensating controls.
Which explains why I and many others didn't play games like Darkfall or MO, and we see how well they faired in terms of retaining a player base.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As I said, completely turning off PVP is no solution at all to the actual question / problem, neither is just not playing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And, as I have also said, a large part of game design is knowing who to market your game to, and the size of said demographic. If you see a lot of similar games failing, you might want to reconsider your whole design and if that is the case, then this is a problem the Devs need to solve.
And by that, I mean the Devs need to be the ones to really consider who their target market is, who they want playing their game, and who this game is made for.
If this game is made for players that want Open World PvP, then.. No, they are not looking for anyone else's money, everyone should take the game as it is, and either deal or leave.
If they made this game, this way, that thinking it was going to be the bomb, and it bombed alright, they really need to step back and reconsider their whole game design and market.
Players trying to make safe spaces for other players that do not want to deal with the game as the game is, is a failed idea from the start.
Not that some of the ideas aren't noble, and fun to look at it, but the whole idea of players trying to make the game attractive to players that really have no place in that kind of game to start with, is why the whole plan fails.
This is one of those things where the Devs need to step in and make a decision on "Who is this game for" and what demographic of players they want here. If they want the carebear anti-pvp players in their game, then they need to redesign the game for those players, and understand that this choice will alienate the hardcore pro-pvp crowed they have.. this is a choice they need to make, and there is really no other option.
IMHO.
2. If thats the case then this is where the developers can patch and update. Not responding to PKers by punishing them in a game that boasts freedom to do and be whatever you want to be. Tweek numbers, alter the frequency of resources nodes ,etc. to make these types of interaction possible.
3. If PKers form their own alliances then FINE. That is ALL part of the dynamic and overall history of the game. That is what makes games like this interesting. Watching players form responses and counter responses to events that happen in the game. This is the reason why EVE Online has a rich history and inspires many new people to want to play the game or at least keep up on the happenings of its world.
Again, and this is important: Anyone who doesn't like the rule set shouldn't buy it.
For me the only frustrating thing is that PKs won't acknowledge the inherent advantages of their position or the multiple ways they circumvent the mechanics put in place to even the playing field. For example, the advice to "have a crew to protect you" is circumvented by blue/ghost spies - which leaves me wondering: If you're really about hardcore PvP why do you have spies?
(You personally may not use those tactics but they are very popular)
Better yet, if you think "The Protector" is such an awesome role then why don't the PK guilds form protector guilds instead? Read that again: If that is fun then YOU do it. If you aren't willing to play that role then maybe you're not being honest about what a chore it can be?
It seems to me that PKs, by in large (not you necessarily) like to claim that people should play the way they want to play - but seem to be very comfortable telling other people how they need to play.
That said, I've no skin in this game as I won't be buying it.
I've been watching gankfest games for 20 years - I know how this ends.
When you're standing around as a PK with absolutely nothing to do and after several days of that you begin to wonder what went wrong just know that I'm the little voice in the back of your head saying "Told ya so."
Oh, and one other point: Do you want to play a game with people who get off on killing other helpless players? These aren't community builders, by in large, as most of them are the bottom feeders of the internet. So you're building a game for inherently flawed gamers (those that insist on having huge advantage over helpless prey and enjoy that dynamic).
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Aloha Mr Hand !
I actually have only had 1 PvP battle so far. My guild was going to perform a ritual to open a certain dungeon area. Our GM is one of the main streamers and does it with no delay so everyone could easily see where we were gathering and how big we were. While we fiddled around trying to figure out how to activate the entrance, an enemy guild obviously stream sniped us and swooped in on us. Utter chaos ensued as we were not prepared. A big chunk of people ported out. We got a few kills but they won the day. My frustration was around the mechanisms that exist. Some of their members were BLUE and they were there to rez or loot. If I wanted to attack them I would take a karma hit. Not sure how to fix that with their current setup. At least they fixed it to prevent blue healing of reds/oranges.
Shortly thereafter (after I logged as it was midnight) my guild reformed and this time being prepared went and wiped them out to the last man.
Aria has HUGE safe zones and you can level very far without ever leaving it. I am roughly 90+ in all the mage skills and 99.9% of my time has been spent in a safe zone. If you want the better rewards, better ores, etc... then you need to step out into the danger. This is as it should be IMHO.
We have a pretty active Discord and when PKs are spotted the word goes out and a semi-dedicated group goes to hunt them down. I'd really advise solo folks to think about joining a guild of some sort.
As a funny side, what some guys in my guild have done is get 1 point in mining and stand in the mines with a pickaxe. When that lone PK pops in for an "easy kill" they find themselves facing a grandmaster warrior or mage.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Pvpers mostly don't like mmorpg.
Mmorpg players mostly don't like pvp.
Mmorpg pvp players mostly don't like open world pvp.
Most people don't like pvp loot.
When you start combining any of these you start to drastically reduce the number of people who are interested.
There's more... I dig full loot open world pvp games, but can't handle the style of game play in aria/UO. I need first or third person 3d control schemes.
The bottom line is if they are aware of the depth of their niche and are fine with it, then so be it. If they want more people interested then they need to take another look.