The silly entitlement of people of getting this as ARK DLC is just ridiculous. Because that's what companies do with DLC of one online survival game "hey guys this DLC is now one MMO with a new theme and gameplay focus".
What could start within Wildcard as some project built over ARK has expanded into its own game, and they have the full right to sell it as its own game.
GG has nothing to be upfront about and they should just ignore the dogs barking and move their caravan forward iterating upon this title and care about constructive criticism upon the game itself.
Then you wonder "why the MMO genre is dead", with how destructive and toxic the gaming community can be towards any new title on this genre no wonder big devs stay away, anything happens it's not even torches and pitchforks its nails and crucifixes lmao
would it be better if you where paying for it as a DLC? i dont understand this argument.
If it were originally a DLC, it would've been better if GrapeCardsGoneWildonShots had been up front with gamers about it, instead. Signs point heavily to the idea it was originally just a DLC. Seeing as they sold a season pass for ARK, now ARK users have double the reason to be miffed.
GG self-inflicted dev wounds.
This game is bigger then a DLC and if it was an Ark dlc it would have cost the same at release.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
This is what people ain't getting, this goes far beyond what any ARK DLC would ever add and change on the game, but some feel entitled they should have gotten this MMO part of Ark's season pass.
This is what people ain't getting, this goes far beyond what any ARK DLC would ever add and change on the game, but some feel entitled they should have gotten this MMO part of Ark's season pass.
I disagree - to me (ARK player) - what makes Atlas "far beyond" any ARK DLC?
Would you please elaborate in detail?
Because - this is ARK: Oceans DLC - as far as base gameplay - lol what is changed vitamins?
Atlas is 100% running on base ARK and it's a DLC with minor tweaks to base gameplay.
If you want to make that argument, then take the Battlefield games for example. They use the same base platform, but sell you a new game in a slightly different setting. Yet I don't see people up in arms about it.
I disagree - to me (ARK player) - what makes Atlas "far beyond" any ARK DLC?
Would you please elaborate in detail?
Because - this is ARK: Oceans DLC - as far as base gameplay - lol what is changed vitamins?
Atlas is 100% running on base ARK and it's a DLC with minor tweaks to base gameplay.
Not really DMKano ... it is at it's heart a game based and built on Ark.
The differences: 1.Every creature model has been changed, sometimes very slightly and sometimes greatly. New creatures have been added, which isn't really a shift but does point towards new content - separate from a reskin. 2. You already said Vitamins ... but that's the least of features expanded off the old thirst/hunger mechanic. I actually detest this system and wish it was base Ark Hunger/Thirst. 3. Harvesting is much the same, in that you use something to hit another thing and poof a resource. The difference is in the details... basic goods are crafted with basic items. When it comes to the items the game is built around(most ship upgrades) you need alloys. Each region has unique metals and while all can be used refined to reach tiers of production is a secondary component to crafting. Additionally there are specific resources I haven't figured out what to do with : Mythos as an example. (Off Yeti's ((Gigantopithicus's with an arctic theme and changed aggro mechanics) 4. Taming is a completely new system. I won't argue for the merits of the new system .. but it does lend itself well to the theme of exploration. Chocobo's (Ostriches) need chili ... which I've yet to find on the same island as the Choco's we've encountered. Similarly the starter islands were full of Cows and Bulls ... which require Rushes, which were nowhere to be found. Passive tames are still the standard 0 slot and hit E, but active tames require damage and then a bola to entrap the creature. Some creatures absolutely won't be tamed in one bola, so you have to retap and then rebola. Which means some major mechanics to taming in Ark were changed ... for better or worse. Taming percentages used to be reset by combat .. I haven't notice this impacting the difficult tames yet. Subtle changes to the main component of Ark that add up when put together. 5. Sailing .. enough said really, there's nothing near as robust of a mechanic in Ark like the main mechanic of Atlas. There are skill tree's devoted to increasing your captains proficiency and adding additional progression mechanics via salvage, diving, and treasure hunting. 6. Land claiming and generally the pace and form of PvP in the game. While we're only playing with "intentions" right now , so the base mechanics may end up being half-baked the changes are dramatic. 7. Skill tree's for Archery, Artillery, Firearms, Melee... with further nuances inside those trees. I.E Archery containing throwing and sapping. Melee: Two handed and one handers. With actual active skills for all of the trees. Piercing shot for Archery ... is rather strong.
To state the game is Ark with minor tweaks to the base game play is a vast oversimplification of the new content to Atlas. If you boil down the game to collect resources>tame>build>pvp then sure ... it's the same, but then again every survival game is. There are plenty of new mechanics in Atlas and the vast majority of subsystems and mechanics native to Ark have been changed. That's also ignoring the absolute massive size of the game and it's islands.
This is what people ain't getting, this goes far beyond what any ARK DLC would ever add and change on the game, but some feel entitled they should have gotten this MMO part of Ark's season pass.
Well, when you have ARK players who purchased the season pass and found that this was originally planned to be included there, but now they're separating it out so it's not included and weren't up front about it, don't blame them for being suspicious and taking issue.
If they wanted to avoid it, maybe they should've been willing to withhold release (no! That shweet Christmas cash!!!!1!!1!11!!1oneone!!one) to actually, y'know, take that lazy ass menu shit out the game properly.
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
And even THAT is better than sit there and allow yourself to get anally ravaged.
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
And even THAT is better than sit there and allow yourself to get anally ravaged.
Some folks would rather complain about the complainers than address the problem... /shrug Its a free country I guess
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
That's the thing about microtransactions: they're very resistant to customer reaction, because they're super easy to add, and the items you can sell for extraordinary amounts are relatively minuscule. A skin here, a mount model there, sold for the price of a quarter or half of a AAA game release a pop. Now multiply that stock by 30 because you can crank that shit out constantly.
Even if 2/3 your entire playerbase is disgusted... Just make sure the other 3rd buys 2-3 items and you're good.
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
And even THAT is better than sit there and allow yourself to get anally ravaged.
Some folks would rather complain about the complainers than address the problem... /shrug Its a free country I guess
Typical response, I expect nothing more from any of you.
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
And even THAT is better than sit there and allow yourself to get anally ravaged.
Some folks would rather complain about the complainers than address the problem... /shrug Its a free country I guess
Typical response, I expect nothing more from any of you.
Insightful as always.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
That's the thing about microtransactions: they're very resistant to customer reaction, because they're super easy to add, and the items you can sell for extraordinary amounts are relatively minuscule. A skin here, a mount model there, sold for the price of a quarter or half of a AAA game release a pop. Now multiply that stock by 30 because you can crank that shit out constantly.
Even if 2/3 your entire playerbase is disgusted... Just make sure the other 3rd buys 2-3 items and you're good.
I'm not sure how we got to microtransactions. The game in question doesn't have any and I don't recall Ark having any either. I'm talking about trying to create a proper feedback loop rather than all the rant and raving. It seems to be everyone's goal to "trigger" the other person instead of having a conversation. I mean, you don't have to be happy go lucky and cover your complaints with sugar, but being an asshole doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Just look at this thread alone. Someone "god forbid" mentions not acting like a child about a game and they get attacked for it. Why do "people" expect other "people" to handle what they have to say, but can't handle anything in return? It's disgusting, discouraging. I can't believe anyone would want to get into game development and put up with most of the crap that is said and done.
Maybe .. no idea honestly. The server clusters lead me to believe it was better supported separately but I have no idea. I wrote that wall of text to explain why it's not a "DLC with minor tweaks to base gameplay." DLC or Stand Alone game ... wouldn't have mattered to me. If folks want to be angry that it wasn't included in the season pass, that's a valid complaint to make.
Light on content and a simple re-skin it is not though...
I disagree - to me (ARK player) - what makes Atlas "far beyond" any ARK DLC?
Would you please elaborate in detail?
Because - this is ARK: Oceans DLC - as far as base gameplay - lol what is changed vitamins?
Atlas is 100% running on base ARK and it's a DLC with minor tweaks to base gameplay.
Not really DMKano ... it is at it's heart a game based and built on Ark.
The differences: 1.Every creature model has been changed, sometimes very slightly and sometimes greatly. New creatures have been added, which isn't really a shift but does point towards new content - separate from a reskin. 2. You already said Vitamins ... but that's the least of features expanded off the old thirst/hunger mechanic. I actually detest this system and wish it was base Ark Hunger/Thirst. 3. Harvesting is much the same, in that you use something to hit another thing and poof a resource. The difference is in the details... basic goods are crafted with basic items. When it comes to the items the game is built around(most ship upgrades) you need alloys. Each region has unique metals and while all can be used refined to reach tiers of production is a secondary component to crafting. Additionally there are specific resources I haven't figured out what to do with : Mythos as an example. (Off Yeti's ((Gigantopithicus's with an arctic theme and changed aggro mechanics) 4. Taming is a completely new system. I won't argue for the merits of the new system .. but it does lend itself well to the theme of exploration. Chocobo's (Ostriches) need chili ... which I've yet to find on the same island as the Choco's we've encountered. Similarly the starter islands were full of Cows and Bulls ... which require Rushes, which were nowhere to be found. Passive tames are still the standard 0 slot and hit E, but active tames require damage and then a bola to entrap the creature. Some creatures absolutely won't be tamed in one bola, so you have to retap and then rebola. Which means some major mechanics to taming in Ark were changed ... for better or worse. Taming percentages used to be reset by combat .. I haven't notice this impacting the difficult tames yet. Subtle changes to the main component of Ark that add up when put together. 5. Sailing .. enough said really, there's nothing near as robust of a mechanic in Ark like the main mechanic of Atlas. There are skill tree's devoted to increasing your captains proficiency and adding additional progression mechanics via salvage, diving, and treasure hunting. 6. Land claiming and generally the pace and form of PvP in the game. While we're only playing with "intentions" right now , so the base mechanics may end up being half-baked the changes are dramatic. 7. Skill tree's for Archery, Artillery, Firearms, Melee... with further nuances inside those trees. I.E Archery containing throwing and sapping. Melee: Two handed and one handers. With actual active skills for all of the trees. Piercing shot for Archery ... is rather strong.
To state the game is Ark with minor tweaks to the base game play is a vast oversimplification of the new content to Atlas. If you boil down the game to collect resources>tame>build>pvp then sure ... it's the same, but then again every survival game is. There are plenty of new mechanics in Atlas and the vast majority of subsystems and mechanics native to Ark have been changed. That's also ignoring the absolute massive size of the game and it's islands.
All of the above could've been done as dlc
Only if they wanted it to be an extension of Ark and not a completely different direction. Assets alike or not, the games are not the same so having it "just be DLC" doesn't really make sense, especially if they've done work with how the servers function.
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
That's the thing about microtransactions: they're very resistant to customer reaction, because they're super easy to add, and the items you can sell for extraordinary amounts are relatively minuscule. A skin here, a mount model there, sold for the price of a quarter or half of a AAA game release a pop. Now multiply that stock by 30 because you can crank that shit out constantly.
Even if 2/3 your entire playerbase is disgusted... Just make sure the other 3rd buys 2-3 items and you're good.
I'm not sure how we got to microtransactions. The game in question doesn't have any and I don't recall Ark having any either. I'm talking about trying to create a proper feedback loop rather than all the rant and raving. It seems to be everyone's goal to "trigger" the other person instead of having a conversation. I mean, you don't have to be happy go lucky and cover your complaints with sugar, but being an asshole doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Just look at this thread alone. Someone "god forbid" mentions not acting like a child about a game and they get attacked for it. Why do "people" expect other "people" to handle what they have to say, but can't handle anything in return? It's disgusting, discouraging. I can't believe anyone would want to get into game development and put up with most of the crap that is said and done.
I brought it up because these trends aren't as easy as "you don't buy it, they go away." Early Access is another example: they literally get free apologists when they release behind the Early Access label, despite it literally just being "hey guys, you wanna buy our unfinished product?"
Not buying the unfinished product doesn't discourage it, because the downside of releasing that early is mitigated by the constant stream of folks too emotionally attached saying "Srsly guys, it's gonna get better! Stop hating!" ignoring the fact that as many of these Early Access games don't get that much better as there are ones that do.
Then, unless you stick to not buying merely out of principle (at which point a poster like yourself will label you a whiny bitch who doesn't wanna have fun, he just wants to complain), you decide later on, when the product has actually developed into something worthy of the cash, that it's worth your money... There's no downside to the dev. The person not supporting Early Access bullshit where devs hype then horrendously under-deliver doesn't actually affect that market at all. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and damned if you mention it.
End result? A steam storefront that's added over 7,000 games to its library in 2017. Can you name more than 5 worth mentioning off the top of your head? That's because the vast majority was mediocre to complete and utter shit, many of which are slapped with the Early Access label that languishes. Thanks, Early Access!
I disagree - to me (ARK player) - what makes Atlas "far beyond" any ARK DLC?
Would you please elaborate in detail?
Because - this is ARK: Oceans DLC - as far as base gameplay - lol what is changed vitamins?
Atlas is 100% running on base ARK and it's a DLC with minor tweaks to base gameplay.
Not really DMKano ... it is at it's heart a game based and built on Ark.
The differences: 1.Every creature model has been changed, sometimes very slightly and sometimes greatly. New creatures have been added, which isn't really a shift but does point towards new content - separate from a reskin. 2. You already said Vitamins ... but that's the least of features expanded off the old thirst/hunger mechanic. I actually detest this system and wish it was base Ark Hunger/Thirst. 3. Harvesting is much the same, in that you use something to hit another thing and poof a resource. The difference is in the details... basic goods are crafted with basic items. When it comes to the items the game is built around(most ship upgrades) you need alloys. Each region has unique metals and while all can be used refined to reach tiers of production is a secondary component to crafting. Additionally there are specific resources I haven't figured out what to do with : Mythos as an example. (Off Yeti's ((Gigantopithicus's with an arctic theme and changed aggro mechanics) 4. Taming is a completely new system. I won't argue for the merits of the new system .. but it does lend itself well to the theme of exploration. Chocobo's (Ostriches) need chili ... which I've yet to find on the same island as the Choco's we've encountered. Similarly the starter islands were full of Cows and Bulls ... which require Rushes, which were nowhere to be found. Passive tames are still the standard 0 slot and hit E, but active tames require damage and then a bola to entrap the creature. Some creatures absolutely won't be tamed in one bola, so you have to retap and then rebola. Which means some major mechanics to taming in Ark were changed ... for better or worse. Taming percentages used to be reset by combat .. I haven't notice this impacting the difficult tames yet. Subtle changes to the main component of Ark that add up when put together. 5. Sailing .. enough said really, there's nothing near as robust of a mechanic in Ark like the main mechanic of Atlas. There are skill tree's devoted to increasing your captains proficiency and adding additional progression mechanics via salvage, diving, and treasure hunting. 6. Land claiming and generally the pace and form of PvP in the game. While we're only playing with "intentions" right now , so the base mechanics may end up being half-baked the changes are dramatic. 7. Skill tree's for Archery, Artillery, Firearms, Melee... with further nuances inside those trees. I.E Archery containing throwing and sapping. Melee: Two handed and one handers. With actual active skills for all of the trees. Piercing shot for Archery ... is rather strong.
To state the game is Ark with minor tweaks to the base game play is a vast oversimplification of the new content to Atlas. If you boil down the game to collect resources>tame>build>pvp then sure ... it's the same, but then again every survival game is. There are plenty of new mechanics in Atlas and the vast majority of subsystems and mechanics native to Ark have been changed. That's also ignoring the absolute massive size of the game and it's islands.
Well said, the game has it's own characteristics..........
In addition:
Sailing - Atlas has Ship building, purchase Rafts (Ark only has rafts / ark mods had ships)
Landmass = Ocean with many small landmasses.... not one big landmass like Ark had
Ocean - takes hours to cross in Atlas.
Varied Sea Creatures - Mermaids, Hammerhead sharks, Whales, etc.
Skills tree clusters vs. engrams.
Server clusters - 40k players to a server
Yes, there are aspects of ark but Atlas has it's own characteristics which makes it different.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
This is what people ain't getting, this goes far beyond what any ARK DLC would ever add and change on the game, but some feel entitled they should have gotten this MMO part of Ark's season pass.
I disagree - to me (ARK player) - what makes Atlas "far beyond" any ARK DLC?
Would you please elaborate in detail?
Because - this is ARK: Oceans DLC - as far as base gameplay - lol what is changed vitamins?
Atlas is 100% running on base ARK and it's a DLC with minor tweaks to base gameplay.
If you want to make that argument, then take the Battlefield games for example. They use the same base platform, but sell you a new game in a slightly different setting. Yet I don't see people up in arms about it.
This ^^
Games evolve and turn into newer fresher games with new characteristics.
i.e. - Just Cause series Witcher series Star Wars Battlefront series. etc.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I'm not defending these guys for releasing the game without polishing a few things up, but players.. people in general have a tendency to jump on the hate wagon. Misery loves company, outrage culture, all that jazz.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
True, complaining MAY not accomplish anything but one thing I can guarantee is that bending over and silently taking what is being pushed out is ABSOLUTELY not going to change anything.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
That's the thing about microtransactions: they're very resistant to customer reaction, because they're super easy to add, and the items you can sell for extraordinary amounts are relatively minuscule. A skin here, a mount model there, sold for the price of a quarter or half of a AAA game release a pop. Now multiply that stock by 30 because you can crank that shit out constantly.
Even if 2/3 your entire playerbase is disgusted... Just make sure the other 3rd buys 2-3 items and you're good.
I'm not sure how we got to microtransactions. The game in question doesn't have any and I don't recall Ark having any either. I'm talking about trying to create a proper feedback loop rather than all the rant and raving. It seems to be everyone's goal to "trigger" the other person instead of having a conversation. I mean, you don't have to be happy go lucky and cover your complaints with sugar, but being an asshole doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Just look at this thread alone. Someone "god forbid" mentions not acting like a child about a game and they get attacked for it. Why do "people" expect other "people" to handle what they have to say, but can't handle anything in return? It's disgusting, discouraging. I can't believe anyone would want to get into game development and put up with most of the crap that is said and done.
I brought it up because these trends aren't as easy as "you don't buy it, they go away." Early Access is another example: they literally get free apologists when they release behind the Early Access label, despite it literally just being "hey guys, you wanna buy our unfinished product?"
Not buying the unfinished product doesn't discourage it, because the downside of releasing that early is mitigated by the constant stream of folks too emotionally attached saying "Srsly guys, it's gonna get better! Stop hating!" ignoring the fact that as many of these Early Access games don't get that much better as there are ones that do.
Then, unless you stick to not buying merely out of principle (at which point a poster like yourself will label you a whiny bitch who doesn't wanna have fun, he just wants to complain), you decide later on, when the product has actually developed into something worthy of the cash, that it's worth your money... There's no downside to the dev. The person not supporting Early Access bullshit where devs hype then horrendously under-deliver doesn't actually affect that market at all. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and damned if you mention it.
End result? A steam storefront that's added over 7,000 games to its library in 2017. Can you name more than 5 worth mentioning off the top of your head? That's because the vast majority was mediocre to complete and utter shit, many of which are slapped with the Early Access label that languishes. Thanks, Early Access!
First off I just need to get out of the way "(at which point a poster like yourself will label you a whiny bitch who doesn't wanna have fun, he just wants to complain)" - this is nonsense and either you know it and are just trying to cause problems or you are confused, because I never once said that someone "not buying out of principle" is a problem. I didn't buy it because I don't buy Early Access games with the exception of one time, Ark, for my kids and they played it more than any other game (except Minecraft, they still play it and probably will in 20 years). I know and completely understand what Early Access is, what it was for and that is precisely why I don't buy into early access games. If I see a game and company that I believe could produce what I want, like Pantheon, I'll throw them some support. Otherwise I wait until I have a solid tangible and otherwise "complete" product before I make judgement.
Also, I wasn't talking about "you don't buy it, they go away", and I never meant "don't complain", though as slapshot mentioned I did throw that word into my first post about this. What I'm saying is the way gamers go about it in this day and age. The amount of rage, the level of animosity and anger is not helping the situation. If you have a problem with something that someone did and you approach them with anger what happens? They go into defense mode and now you have a fight. If you think before acting and bring it up in a civil manor then real discourse happens and problems can get solved.
Don't be silent, just don't be an asshole.
I find this particular game and situation really strange because this company, as far as I know, is still a rather new and small group. It's not like Blizzard who has money to burn throwing out unfinished crap. This is a company that started with Ark and released their, "arguably", second game and... in an insanely short period of time. Yet here we are, complaining about it like it was suppose to be a complete and final released product from a AAA company even though it's on "Early Access" from the same people who created another Early Access game that was in actual release just what? A year or so ago?
Doing it properly is key. 99% of what people say and do is not the right way to go about it and will make things worse before they get better.
That's the thing about microtransactions: they're very resistant to customer reaction, because they're super easy to add, and the items you can sell for extraordinary amounts are relatively minuscule. A skin here, a mount model there, sold for the price of a quarter or half of a AAA game release a pop. Now multiply that stock by 30 because you can crank that shit out constantly.
Even if 2/3 your entire playerbase is disgusted... Just make sure the other 3rd buys 2-3 items and you're good.
I'm not sure how we got to microtransactions. The game in question doesn't have any and I don't recall Ark having any either. I'm talking about trying to create a proper feedback loop rather than all the rant and raving. It seems to be everyone's goal to "trigger" the other person instead of having a conversation. I mean, you don't have to be happy go lucky and cover your complaints with sugar, but being an asshole doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Just look at this thread alone. Someone "god forbid" mentions not acting like a child about a game and they get attacked for it. Why do "people" expect other "people" to handle what they have to say, but can't handle anything in return? It's disgusting, discouraging. I can't believe anyone would want to get into game development and put up with most of the crap that is said and done.
I brought it up because these trends aren't as easy as "you don't buy it, they go away." Early Access is another example: they literally get free apologists when they release behind the Early Access label, despite it literally just being "hey guys, you wanna buy our unfinished product?"
Not buying the unfinished product doesn't discourage it, because the downside of releasing that early is mitigated by the constant stream of folks too emotionally attached saying "Srsly guys, it's gonna get better! Stop hating!" ignoring the fact that as many of these Early Access games don't get that much better as there are ones that do.
Then, unless you stick to not buying merely out of principle (at which point a poster like yourself will label you a whiny bitch who doesn't wanna have fun, he just wants to complain), you decide later on, when the product has actually developed into something worthy of the cash, that it's worth your money... There's no downside to the dev. The person not supporting Early Access bullshit where devs hype then horrendously under-deliver doesn't actually affect that market at all. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and damned if you mention it.
End result? A steam storefront that's added over 7,000 games to its library in 2017. Can you name more than 5 worth mentioning off the top of your head? That's because the vast majority was mediocre to complete and utter shit, many of which are slapped with the Early Access label that languishes. Thanks, Early Access!
First off I just need to get out of the way "(at which point a poster like yourself will label you a whiny bitch who doesn't wanna have fun, he just wants to complain)" - this is nonsense and either you know it and are just trying to cause problems or you are confused, because I never once said that someone "not buying out of principle" is a problem. I didn't buy it because I don't buy Early Access games with the exception of one time, Ark, for my kids and they played it more than any other game (except Minecraft, they still play it and probably will in 20 years). I know and completely understand what Early Access is, what it was for and that is precisely why I don't buy into early access games. If I see a game and company that I believe could produce what I want, like Pantheon, I'll throw them some support. Otherwise I wait until I have a solid tangible and otherwise "complete" product before I make judgement.
Also, I wasn't talking about "you don't buy it, they go away", and I never meant "don't complain", though as slapshot mentioned I did throw that word into my first post about this. What I'm saying is the way gamers go about it in this day and age. The amount of rage, the level of animosity and anger is not helping the situation. If you have a problem with something that someone did and you approach them with anger what happens? They go into defense mode and now you have a fight. If you think before acting and bring it up in a civil manor then real discourse happens and problems can get solved.
Don't be silent, just don't be an asshole.
I find this particular game and situation really strange because this company, as far as I know, is still a rather new and small group. It's not like Blizzard who has money to burn throwing out unfinished crap. This is a company that started with Ark and released their, "arguably", second game and... in an insanely short period of time. Yet here we are, complaining about it like it was suppose to be a complete and final released product from a AAA company even though it's on "Early Access" from the same people who created another Early Access game that was in actual release just what? A year or so ago?
Then apologies for the assumption, because I read your previous posts as you feel folks who dislike the Early Access in general seem to be whiny. That's clearly not the case.
I agree with you that raging isn't the answer, but how do you expect to control or eliminate that? Much like cheaters, so long as the population is large enough, someone will inevitably be a rager. We can have discussions that ignore that, because taking things to an irrationally emotional extreme isn't worth addressing in my opinion. Same goes for apologists, really; if it becomes irrationally emotional or naive, there isn't much to address or discuss anymore.
So, in the end, it seems like the discussion of either one is less useful than sticking to the topic at hand: the evolution of the market towards less and less consumer-friendly practices. That topic is also couched in the larger one concerning all things digital consumer footprint. And we (including myself here, as is evident from our exchange) all get sidetracked so easily commenting on the extreme reactions that we spend less time commenting directly on the event that caused the entire topic to arise.
Even if we don't strictly adhere to it, I think we all understand what constitutes a proper response. Shouldn't we leave that discussion as settled and focus on the real reason we're here in the first place?
Seeing a sea monster's head stick up through the hull of a boat is an epic fail well unless it was actually destroying the boat which it is not.Also seeing it run into a wall and just keep running forward into the wall is again an epic fail.
No underwater physics that i noticed is again a sad effort.
This is like a super early bare bones release and most of the issues i see will likely never be polished because they are not issues but more or less LAZY game design done on purpose.
This was 100% a scam job,still likely that few have learned their lesson and will be duped by similar releases incoming.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Even if we don't strictly adhere to it, I think we all understand what constitutes a proper response. Shouldn't we leave that discussion as settled and focus on the real reason we're here in the first place?
Exactly.
So, I would say that the uprising, despite some of the statements in this thread, HAS been effective. There are multiple reports of Steam giving refunds far beyond the 2-hour rule. That indicates that they see a problem and acknowledge a problem. At least that means there is a CHANCE that the message gets heard by the next company that tries something similar. Money talks.
I think earlier in this thread (or a sister thread) there was a list of all the reasons people were refunding. Contrary to what I read in another thread, I think it ALL comes down to the company setting false expectations. If you are going to be Early Access you should probably be upfront and honest about the state of the game. No, a generic Steam Early Access side-page does not cut it.
This is what they state:
----------
Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“ATLAS will be an Early Access title for approximately 2 years.”
How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?
“ATLAS is going to better balanced, and have even more content and features than the initial game driven by player feedback and whatever direction players desire to see the game evolve in.”
What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“Everything in the features section will be there around Early Access Launch and the game will be an unparalleled massively multiplayer experience from Day One.” -----------
So when I read this and combine it with their trailer... I see a game that is going to be amazing ON DAY ONE, and expect there to be some balancing issues and that they would be using the 2 years to expand the game world and add some additional features (BEYOND WHAT IS ALREADY LISTED).
That is NOT what was delivered. If they had posted actual footage of the state of the game and said it's super early and it really wouldn't resemble the ultimate vision for a year or two then I'd be all for it. Instead, they promised a game that already had all the features listed (assumed to be working) and an "unparalleled massively multiplayer experience from Day One".
If you are going to set expectations that high then it's on you to live up to them.
Edit to add:
This line from the Article sums it up neatly: "Atlas is groundbreaking in its scope and ambition, but it’s far from what you saw in that long gameplay trailer, and it’s definitely not quite everything the steam pages claims it will be or should be. "
And that my friends, is inexcuseable.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think Atlas is fine look at No Mans Sky.. It was a shit show at launch now it's actually a good game. I was one of the lucky ones to be able to play from the start and get away from the starting zones. Games buggy but better than I expected from ARK devs.
Comments
What could start within Wildcard as some project built over ARK has expanded into its own game, and they have the full right to sell it as its own game.
GG has nothing to be upfront about and they should just ignore the dogs barking and move their caravan forward iterating upon this title and care about constructive criticism upon the game itself.
Then you wonder "why the MMO genre is dead", with how destructive and toxic the gaming community can be towards any new title on this genre no wonder big devs stay away, anything happens it's not even torches and pitchforks its nails and crucifixes lmao
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
The differences:
1.Every creature model has been changed, sometimes very slightly and sometimes greatly. New creatures have been added, which isn't really a shift but does point towards new content - separate from a reskin.
2. You already said Vitamins ... but that's the least of features expanded off the old thirst/hunger mechanic. I actually detest this system and wish it was base Ark Hunger/Thirst.
3. Harvesting is much the same, in that you use something to hit another thing and poof a resource. The difference is in the details... basic goods are crafted with basic items. When it comes to the items the game is built around(most ship upgrades) you need alloys. Each region has unique metals and while all can be used refined to reach tiers of production is a secondary component to crafting. Additionally there are specific resources I haven't figured out what to do with : Mythos as an example. (Off Yeti's ((Gigantopithicus's with an arctic theme and changed aggro mechanics)
4. Taming is a completely new system. I won't argue for the merits of the new system .. but it does lend itself well to the theme of exploration. Chocobo's (Ostriches) need chili ... which I've yet to find on the same island as the Choco's we've encountered. Similarly the starter islands were full of Cows and Bulls ... which require Rushes, which were nowhere to be found. Passive tames are still the standard 0 slot and hit E, but active tames require damage and then a bola to entrap the creature. Some creatures absolutely won't be tamed in one bola, so you have to retap and then rebola. Which means some major mechanics to taming in Ark were changed ... for better or worse. Taming percentages used to be reset by combat .. I haven't notice this impacting the difficult tames yet. Subtle changes to the main component of Ark that add up when put together.
5. Sailing .. enough said really, there's nothing near as robust of a mechanic in Ark like the main mechanic of Atlas. There are skill tree's devoted to increasing your captains proficiency and adding additional progression mechanics via salvage, diving, and treasure hunting.
6. Land claiming and generally the pace and form of PvP in the game. While we're only playing with "intentions" right now , so the base mechanics may end up being half-baked the changes are dramatic.
7. Skill tree's for Archery, Artillery, Firearms, Melee... with further nuances inside those trees. I.E Archery containing throwing and sapping. Melee: Two handed and one handers. With actual active skills for all of the trees. Piercing shot for Archery ... is rather strong.
To state the game is Ark with minor tweaks to the base game play is a vast oversimplification of the new content to Atlas. If you boil down the game to collect resources>tame>build>pvp then sure ... it's the same, but then again every survival game is. There are plenty of new mechanics in Atlas and the vast majority of subsystems and mechanics native to Ark have been changed. That's also ignoring the absolute massive size of the game and it's islands.
If they wanted to avoid it, maybe they should've been willing to withhold release (no! That shweet Christmas cash!!!!1!!1!11!!1oneone!!one) to actually, y'know, take that lazy ass menu shit out the game properly.
Please. Spare me your tears for the dev.
If you think all the hate, screaming, complaining and calling companies/devs pieces of trash is going to solve anything, well... you have a long wait.
Sometimes complaining actually affects behavior. Accepting poor behavior just results in more of the same.
Where you absolutely miss the mark is in lumping in "complaining" with "hate", "screaming" and calling devs pieces of trash.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
/shrug
Its a free country I guess
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Even if 2/3 your entire playerbase is disgusted... Just make sure the other 3rd buys 2-3 items and you're good.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Just look at this thread alone. Someone "god forbid" mentions not acting like a child about a game and they get attacked for it. Why do "people" expect other "people" to handle what they have to say, but can't handle anything in return? It's disgusting, discouraging. I can't believe anyone would want to get into game development and put up with most of the crap that is said and done.
DLC or Stand Alone game ... wouldn't have mattered to me. If folks want to be angry that it wasn't included in the season pass, that's a valid complaint to make.
Light on content and a simple re-skin it is not though...
Not buying the unfinished product doesn't discourage it, because the downside of releasing that early is mitigated by the constant stream of folks too emotionally attached saying "Srsly guys, it's gonna get better! Stop hating!" ignoring the fact that as many of these Early Access games don't get that much better as there are ones that do.
Then, unless you stick to not buying merely out of principle (at which point a poster like yourself will label you a whiny bitch who doesn't wanna have fun, he just wants to complain), you decide later on, when the product has actually developed into something worthy of the cash, that it's worth your money... There's no downside to the dev. The person not supporting Early Access bullshit where devs hype then horrendously under-deliver doesn't actually affect that market at all. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, and damned if you mention it.
End result? A steam storefront that's added over 7,000 games to its library in 2017. Can you name more than 5 worth mentioning off the top of your head? That's because the vast majority was mediocre to complete and utter shit, many of which are slapped with the Early Access label that languishes. Thanks, Early Access!
In addition:
Sailing - Atlas has Ship building, purchase Rafts (Ark only has rafts / ark mods had ships)
Landmass = Ocean with many small landmasses.... not one big landmass like Ark had
Ocean - takes hours to cross in Atlas.
Varied Sea Creatures - Mermaids, Hammerhead sharks, Whales, etc.
Skills tree clusters vs. engrams.
Server clusters - 40k players to a server
Yes, there are aspects of ark but Atlas has it's own characteristics which makes it different.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Games evolve and turn into newer fresher games with new characteristics.
i.e. - Just Cause series
Witcher series
Star Wars Battlefront series.
etc.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Also, I wasn't talking about "you don't buy it, they go away", and I never meant "don't complain", though as slapshot mentioned I did throw that word into my first post about this. What I'm saying is the way gamers go about it in this day and age. The amount of rage, the level of animosity and anger is not helping the situation. If you have a problem with something that someone did and you approach them with anger what happens? They go into defense mode and now you have a fight. If you think before acting and bring it up in a civil manor then real discourse happens and problems can get solved.
Don't be silent, just don't be an asshole.
I find this particular game and situation really strange because this company, as far as I know, is still a rather new and small group. It's not like Blizzard who has money to burn throwing out unfinished crap. This is a company that started with Ark and released their, "arguably", second game and... in an insanely short period of time. Yet here we are, complaining about it like it was suppose to be a complete and final released product from a AAA company even though it's on "Early Access" from the same people who created another Early Access game that was in actual release just what? A year or so ago?
I agree with you that raging isn't the answer, but how do you expect to control or eliminate that? Much like cheaters, so long as the population is large enough, someone will inevitably be a rager. We can have discussions that ignore that, because taking things to an irrationally emotional extreme isn't worth addressing in my opinion. Same goes for apologists, really; if it becomes irrationally emotional or naive, there isn't much to address or discuss anymore.
So, in the end, it seems like the discussion of either one is less useful than sticking to the topic at hand: the evolution of the market towards less and less consumer-friendly practices. That topic is also couched in the larger one concerning all things digital consumer footprint. And we (including myself here, as is evident from our exchange) all get sidetracked so easily commenting on the extreme reactions that we spend less time commenting directly on the event that caused the entire topic to arise.
Even if we don't strictly adhere to it, I think we all understand what constitutes a proper response. Shouldn't we leave that discussion as settled and focus on the real reason we're here in the first place?
No underwater physics that i noticed is again a sad effort.
This is like a super early bare bones release and most of the issues i see will likely never be polished because they are not issues but more or less LAZY game design done on purpose.
This was 100% a scam job,still likely that few have learned their lesson and will be duped by similar releases incoming.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So, I would say that the uprising, despite some of the statements in this thread, HAS been effective. There are multiple reports of Steam giving refunds far beyond the 2-hour rule. That indicates that they see a problem and acknowledge a problem. At least that means there is a CHANCE that the message gets heard by the next company that tries something similar. Money talks.
I think earlier in this thread (or a sister thread) there was a list of all the reasons people were refunding. Contrary to what I read in another thread, I think it ALL comes down to the company setting false expectations. If you are going to be Early Access you should probably be upfront and honest about the state of the game. No, a generic Steam Early Access side-page does not cut it.
This is what they state:
----------
Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“ATLAS will be an Early Access title for approximately 2 years.”How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?
“ATLAS is going to better balanced, and have even more content and features than the initial game driven by player feedback and whatever direction players desire to see the game evolve in.”What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“Everything in the features section will be there around Early Access Launch and the game will be an unparalleled massively multiplayer experience from Day One.”-----------
So when I read this and combine it with their trailer... I see a game that is going to be amazing ON DAY ONE, and expect there to be some balancing issues and that they would be using the 2 years to expand the game world and add some additional features (BEYOND WHAT IS ALREADY LISTED).
That is NOT what was delivered. If they had posted actual footage of the state of the game and said it's super early and it really wouldn't resemble the ultimate vision for a year or two then I'd be all for it. Instead, they promised a game that already had all the features listed (assumed to be working) and an "unparalleled massively multiplayer experience from Day One".
If you are going to set expectations that high then it's on you to live up to them.
Edit to add:
This line from the Article sums it up neatly:
"Atlas is groundbreaking in its scope and ambition, but it’s far from what you saw in that long gameplay trailer, and it’s definitely not quite everything the steam pages claims it will be or should be. "
And that my friends, is inexcuseable.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018