Chronicles of Elyria: Wherefore Art Thou? - MMORPG.com

SBFord · January 2019

Chronicles of Elyria: Wherefore Art Thou? - MMORPG.com

I always knew Chronicles of Elyria was going to be a dramatic ride. It had a fiery studio lead that was mad at the current system and wanted to rebuild it from the ground up! The pitch for the game was as audacious as any I’d seen brought to Kickstarter. I went in cautiously with the assumption they would either pull a Han Solo, damn the odds and find a way, or go down in flames. Either way, I was willing to observe and lend a hand (or a handful of money).

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MadFrenchie · January 2019

Thou art in the Gantt Charts, where thou shalt remain for all eternity.

Hashbrick · January 2019

I like to think a lot of kickstarter companies come in with good intentions, but then reality sets in. It actually funded, now you need to pull in a team, now you need to run a business, now you need to create payroll and hire talent. Now the money actually starts to add up and you realize it is no where near enough, you vastly underestimated it. Nothing is more heartbreaking than running a sinking ship from the start, the highs come quick as the funding comes in, the lows come even quicker as the money flow halts. The company not talking is tons of reason of concern.

[Deleted User] · January 2019

The user and all related content has been deleted.

botrytis · January 2019

Hashbrick said:

I like to think a lot of kickstarter companies come in with good intentions, but then reality sets in. It actually funded, now you need to pull in a team, now you need to run a business, now you need to create payroll and hire talent. Now the money actually starts to add up and you realize it is no where near enough, you vastly underestimated it. Nothing is more heartbreaking than running a sinking ship from the start, the highs come quick as the funding comes in, the lows come even quicker as the money flow halts. The company not talking is tons of reason of concern.

Kickstarter DOESN'T have to produce a product. There are no rules in kickstarter that says that. Hence, they could say, 'OH, Sorry. We find this way is untenable to do so we are stopping'. Other products have done that.

bcbully · January 2019

/applaud Well written Ms. Ford. *tips hat* Edit - still the typo king

Jaedor · January 2019

I'm guessing the author doesn't have access to NDA forums, where he might not have as much to complain about.

MadFrenchie · January 2019

TimEisen said:

botrytis said:

Hashbrick said:

I like to think a lot of kickstarter companies come in with good intentions, but then reality sets in. It actually funded, now you need to pull in a team, now you need to run a business, now you need to create payroll and hire talent. Now the money actually starts to add up and you realize it is no where near enough, you vastly underestimated it. Nothing is more heartbreaking than running a sinking ship from the start, the highs come quick as the funding comes in, the lows come even quicker as the money flow halts. The company not talking is tons of reason of concern.

Kickstarter DOESN'T have to produce a product. There are no rules in kickstarter that says that. Hence, they could say, 'OH, Sorry. We find this way is untenable to do so we are stopping'. Other products have done that.

I've got a column, at some point, about the fact that games go against the very foundation of a Kickstarter. The original idea is a KS to raise all of the money to fund the project as pitched. Devs took that, opened a cash shop and never looked back.

Remember, you can't actually compare video games to anything else at all in any manner. Consumer relationship norms or rules no one would question elsewhere don't exist here, and you'll even upset some backers for asking why.

SBFord · January 2019

bcbully said:

/applaud We’ll written Ms. Ford. *tips hat*

While I'd love to take credit, it's Tim Eisen's column

My name goes on the news post

Amathe · January 2019

I knew this game was headed off the rails when they said there would be permadeath.

Mendel · January 2019

Welcome to the dark side, @TimEisen.

Every businessman with an idea faces criticism. Most don't engage their critics and try to shout them down, or call them 'the problem'. Those that don't attack those critics probably includes most of what we'd call 'successful businessmen'. Of those that do, there's probably fewer examples of success.

The big question remaining for me is, when and how will SBS acknowledge the failure of their product. This project seems caught in the gravity of failure, and will reach the inevitable point where they are simply throwing good money after bad. Better the developers realize this before their ardent supporters. That's when the villagers break out the pitchforks and torches.

Sorry you gave money to these people, that is money you won't see again. Good article.

Galadourn · January 2019

Well, think of it this way: it's one of the most massive and sustained live roleplaying sessions of MMORPG development...

lahnmir · January 2019

Galadourn said:

Well, think of it this way: it's one of the most massive and sustained live roleplaying session of MMORPG development...

Definitely. It could do without the people roleplaying developers though...

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Talahar · January 2019

"wherefore" means "why".
Juliet complained about the fact that Romeo was a Montague, not looking for him.
I suggest that if the author uses fancy idioms, they should at least do some research in what they mean.

Galadourn · January 2019

lahnmir said:

Galadourn said:

Well, think of it this way: it's one of the most massive and sustained live roleplaying session of MMORPG development...

Definitely. It could do without the people roleplaying developers though...

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

But THAT IS the main roleplaying part.... /lol

Hashbrick · January 2019

botrytis said:

Hashbrick said:

I like to think a lot of kickstarter companies come in with good intentions, but then reality sets in. It actually funded, now you need to pull in a team, now you need to run a business, now you need to create payroll and hire talent. Now the money actually starts to add up and you realize it is no where near enough, you vastly underestimated it. Nothing is more heartbreaking than running a sinking ship from the start, the highs come quick as the funding comes in, the lows come even quicker as the money flow halts. The company not talking is tons of reason of concern.

Kickstarter DOESN'T have to produce a product. There are no rules in kickstarter that says that. Hence, they could say, 'OH, Sorry. We find this way is untenable to do so we are stopping'. Other products have done that.

What does that have to do with good intentions turned sour, if anything you just said what I said but in a different way...

Aeander · January 2019

Who cares? Even if this vaporware somehow manages to materialize, it's going to be bad. It's a shit game even in concept.

An MMO with permadeath and disposable family-based characters? Ha!

Talahar said:

"wherefore" means "why".
Juliet complained about the fact that Romeo was a Montague, not looking for him.
I suggest that if the author uses fancy idioms, they should at least do some research in what they mean.

I think wherefore works here, because "why art thou" is a completely valid question for a concept this fundamentally bad.

Dakeru · January 2019

I never thought Tim could write an article where he bluntly points and puts his finger into the wound.

You have gained a lot of my respect.

Someone hand that man a harbinger robe!

blamo2000 · January 2019

I said it before and people seemed to think I was an idiot for saying it but the way to fix kickstarter is for devs to post full budgets. I don't want to invest in a studio upgrading computers from serviceable to unnecessary, or KSs ignoring simple things like a basic understanding employment costs. You can separate most of the wheat from the chaff just by requiring them to post a budget and learning if they even have a rudimentary knowledge of budgeting and finance.

I would still KS a ton of games. But I love most of the heavy, indy rpgs that come from them. I am willing to risk $50 on a hope and prayer for a good rpg that values what I do by a small, passionate team working on a nothing budget and asking for almost nothing and won't enrich themselves with it even if successful. But when it comes to mmorpgs - and the crazy budgets they ask for - I get really skeptical. It would be different if there was one being made that I really wanted and was passionate about - but none of them being made hit the notes or selling points for me that small indy games do.

Kyleran · January 2019

Dakeru said:

I never thought Tim could write an article where he bluntly points and puts his finger into the wound.

You have gained a lot of my respect.

Someone hand that man a harbinger robe!

@slapshot and I have been furiously sewing new ones for the upcoming flood of applicants we are anticipating.

It would go a whole lot faster if I had opposable thumbs, lucky simians.

Iselin · January 2019

I fail to imagine a sustainable business model where-in your whales, the lifeblood of your game, see thousands of digital purchases go up in flames and don’t rage quit. MMORPGers have long quit games for far, far less.

Exactly.

This has been my concern about this and for that matter, most other donation-tiered KS MMORPG projects.

"It's not a permanent advantage. They can loose it all" flies in the face of how players have behaved in actual real playable games forever. It's either a lie or it's one of the dumbest and most unsustainable business models ever imagined. I suspect it's a lie.

Kyleran · January 2019

Iselin said:

I fail to imagine a sustainable business model where-in your whales, the lifeblood of your game, see thousands of digital purchases go up in flames and don’t rage quit. MMORPGers have long quit games for far, far less.

Exactly.

This has been my concern about this and for that matter, most other donation-tiered KS MMORPG projects.

"It's not a permanent advantage. They can loose it all" flies in the face of how players have behaved in actual real playable games forever. It's either a lie or it's one of the dumbest and most unsustainable business models ever imagined. I suspect it's a lie.

I'd go with the naivativaty Jeremy has shown over the years about human (and gamer) behavior, especially with this competitive world he's promised to create.

He has been repeatedly been surprised by the questionable behavior of some COE backers, even at the highest tiers.

They just refuse respond the way he believes they should.

Games would be so much easier to make if one didn't have to create them for gamers.

sirfrog0 · January 2019

Considering the soul system, I'd say the game is already fairly pay to win. They either make a roguelike that forces a clean slate, or they allow progress to roll over to your next life regardless of how fat or thin your wallet is.

No one should be able to buy that kind of advantage.

Slapshot1188 · January 2019

@timeisen Wow... I don’t know whether to stand and applaud you or cry that they have driven all Hope from even you.

To me it always comes down to a few simple things. Say what you mean. Do what you say you will do in roughly the time you say you will do it.

It’s fine for a developer to talk the talk and push back on detractors. But then they better walk the walk and do what they said.

Simply pulling Caspiens own words and then comparing them to reality should be all anyone needs to know about this project. From the silly timelines, to SpatialOS being what would enable all their lofty promises, to ElyriaMUD, to VoxElyria... to the Prelude... on and on and on there has been a massive deficiency in delivering.

As I said in a recent thread comparing his Jan 2018 State of Elyria to what really was delivered last year, it’s easy to waste other people’s money.

I still think it would make an interesting column for you to take the statements from the various Kickstarter MMORPGs from a year ago and compare them to reality today.

Puptwilight · January 2019

Amathe said:

I knew this game was headed off the rails when they said there would be permadeath.

Wut? Did you read up how this would work? No? Okay....

Ozmodan · January 2019

As a long time gamer and since writing software is my profession, I knew the project was in trouble years ago when they kept adding feature after feature. The term feature creep is a real killer when it comes to any software project whether it be games or business and this game had it in spades.

I still thought they would eventually put out some kind of game, but the longer we wait with a distinct lack of any progress being shown, the game really deserves the vaporware label.

I don't feel sorry for people that still throw money at it, some just don't know when to quit. If it is not obvious to you now that the money is not generating much for youf investment, don't come crying on this forum.

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV