I took a break from this discussion to do my own research on the matter. What I have to say is this...
I think competition is good. I think Steam is the better game launcher for sure and mainly use it but I also think that Steam is resting on there laurels a little bit and I think they need a fire lit under there butt. If the Epic game store can do that than I think it is a win-win for everyone. Saying that I do not like how this was done. If this game was going to be exclusive then it should have been from the beginning. I think it was wrong of them to put Metro on the Steam store to take it down two months from launch.
With that said I do not blame 4A games or THQ Nordic. Both of which came out and said that they had no idea this was going to happen. There parent company made the executive decision. THQ Nordic even said that think it was a mistake. That it should be on as many platforms as possible. SO I can not also agree with the people who are going to pirate the game either. If 4A and THQ are being honest than it is wrong because they didn't want this to happen in the first place.
Lastly I hope this is the last we see of these shady backdoor deals. Something like this shouldn't have happened and should never happen again. That is not to say it won't. It most likely will. I just hope it doesn't.
Not sure I bet this was not the only game Epic offer money too. If they can get away with this then other companies will see this working then start doing the same things with other games. Competiton is good if they are willing to bring the gamer the best experience not worst.
I think the review bombing is pretty immature tbh. Complaining about it is one thing but trying to burn down their house is another.
The derogatory term review bombing was created to mask a very reasonable reaction to people changing their minds over the course of time. Keep in mind that everyone that posts reviews must own the game, it's not some random people on the Internet trolling the game statistics.
When a previously well received product breaks for some reason, or is altered from what the people originally purchased, or the monetization changes or ... any other reason that people perceive as a breach of trust, then people get to retract their recommendation.
This is one extra reason why metacritics score will always be inferior to player reviews, because it's static, while games change over time. Usually the change is an improvement, sometimes it's not. Updating reviews with favorable recommendations just doesn't generate enough traffic for the tabloid gaming sites to remain relevant. So they need to focus on the occasions where a change is negative, because that generates fake outrage which translates to short term revenue.
I think the review bombing is pretty immature tbh. Complaining about it is one thing but trying to burn down their house is another.
The derogatory term review bombing was created to mask a very reasonable reaction to people changing their minds over the course of time. Keep in mind that everyone that posts reviews must own the game, it's not some random people on the Internet trolling the game statistics.
When a previously well received product breaks for some reason, or is altered from what the people originally purchased, or the monetization changes or ... any other reason that people perceive as a breach of trust, then people get to retract their recommendation.
This is one extra reason why metacritics score will always be inferior to player reviews, because it's static, while games change over time. Usually the change is an improvement, sometimes it's not. Updating reviews with favorable recommendations just doesn't generate enough traffic for the tabloid gaming sites to remain relevant. So they need to focus on the occasions where a change is negative, because that generates fake outrage which translates to short term revenue.
They haven't changed their minds though, have they? Metro and Metro Last Light are still the fine games they always were. They are nothing to do with the current events. This is the internet equivalent of a riot, which is basically the same as when a child has a tantrum because they can't get what they want.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I think the review bombing is pretty immature tbh. Complaining about it is one thing but trying to burn down their house is another.
The derogatory term review bombing was created to mask a very reasonable reaction to people changing their minds over the course of time. Keep in mind that everyone that posts reviews must own the game, it's not some random people on the Internet trolling the game statistics.
When a previously well received product breaks for some reason, or is altered from what the people originally purchased, or the monetization changes or ... any other reason that people perceive as a breach of trust, then people get to retract their recommendation.
This is one extra reason why metacritics score will always be inferior to player reviews, because it's static, while games change over time. Usually the change is an improvement, sometimes it's not. Updating reviews with favorable recommendations just doesn't generate enough traffic for the tabloid gaming sites to remain relevant. So they need to focus on the occasions where a change is negative, because that generates fake outrage which translates to short term revenue.
They haven't changed their minds though, have they? Metro and Metro Last Light are still the fine games they always were. They are nothing to do with the current events. This is the internet equivalent of a riot, which is basically the same as when a child has a tantrum because they can't get what they want.
Now we're delving into a discussion on whether a game is a product or a service. If we go by what the game companies are pushing (the service narrative), then the negative reviews are more than justified.
As mentioend by 2 poster above >>"CHANGE" that is the problem with longevity games,they change in such a bad way but you are stuck with your purchase and the dev always makes sure to post in their TOS that the game will change and your perception of the game might change. There is a fine line to be crossed though,naturally EVERY game with longevity like survival games,mmorpg's are going to change but i feel as a customer all we ask for is nothing scummy,like all a sudden p2w shows up in cash shops.
So there is no recourse for our purchase,you played 2 hours TOO BAD,now imagine if developers started EXPLOITING this?So the very same day,later at nigh after the purchasing goes slow they implement a full on cash shop that is p2w.So Steam says TOO BAD,should be expected,you played your 2 hours don't bother us.So then th flip side is developers will argue that players can literally finish a game in 1-2 days if they play 24/7,so play the entire game and ask for a refund.
This is why i mention ONGOING games that obviously will have ongoing charges/sales.Steam as a BUSINESS taking your money from SALES,should have the responsibility of monitoring the games they sell,if something MONETARY arises that was not there,we should get a full refund if we want.
Problem is Steam/Vale doesn't give two shits about you or me or the developers.You can bet after Epic takes a foothold Valve will come down with their asking price,something they COULD have or should have done long ago but with no competition they simply went the greedy way and only offer customers what the law says they must,otherwise you can bet Steam would say screw you which is what they used to do.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think the review bombing is pretty immature tbh. Complaining about it is one thing but trying to burn down their house is another.
The derogatory term review bombing was created to mask a very reasonable reaction to people changing their minds over the course of time. Keep in mind that everyone that posts reviews must own the game, it's not some random people on the Internet trolling the game statistics.
When a previously well received product breaks for some reason, or is altered from what the people originally purchased, or the monetization changes or ... any other reason that people perceive as a breach of trust, then people get to retract their recommendation.
This is one extra reason why metacritics score will always be inferior to player reviews, because it's static, while games change over time. Usually the change is an improvement, sometimes it's not. Updating reviews with favorable recommendations just doesn't generate enough traffic for the tabloid gaming sites to remain relevant. So they need to focus on the occasions where a change is negative, because that generates fake outrage which translates to short term revenue.
They haven't changed their minds though, have they? Metro and Metro Last Light are still the fine games they always were. They are nothing to do with the current events. This is the internet equivalent of a riot, which is basically the same as when a child has a tantrum because they can't get what they want.
Now we're delving into a discussion on whether a game is a product or a service. If we go by what the game companies are pushing (the service narrative), then the negative reviews are more than justified.
Nope, not buying it, not on the older games. I can understand the new game getting bombed on metacritic or something, I'd complain about the change myself and I already have here, but whats happening is a mob with torches and pitchforks trying to destroy a lifetime of positive work because of one recent decision. Gamers are supposed to be the more educated members of the human race, that's the stereotype at least, but I think the sports hooligans are more rational these days.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Nope, not buying it, not on the older games. I can understand the new game getting bombed on metacritic or something, I'd complain about the change myself and I already have here, but whats happening is a mob with torches and pitchforks trying to destroy a lifetime of positive work because of one recent decision. Gamers are supposed to be the more educated members of the human race, that's the stereotype at least, but I think the sports hooligans are more rational these days.
Gaming is the most mainstream activity right now. There are more gamers than people driving cars. The gaming revenue is bigger than movies and music combined. The stereotype is completely outdated. Noone has any special characteristics by being a gamer, the same way noone is special for watching Netflix.
The player reviews are not something complicated. It's a simple question, do you recommend this game to your friends, yes or no?
So people don't recommend a game that is not sold on Steam to their Steam friends. Big deal, right?
Nope, not buying it, not on the older games. I can understand the new game getting bombed on metacritic or something, I'd complain about the change myself and I already have here, but whats happening is a mob with torches and pitchforks trying to destroy a lifetime of positive work because of one recent decision. Gamers are supposed to be the more educated members of the human race, that's the stereotype at least, but I think the sports hooligans are more rational these days.
Gaming is the most mainstream activity right now. There are more gamers than people driving cars. The gaming revenue is bigger than movies and music combined. The stereotype is completely outdated. Noone has any special characteristics by being a gamer, the same way noone is special for watching Netflix.
The player reviews are not something complicated. It's a simple question, do you recommend this game to your friends, yes or no?
So people don't recommend a game that is not sold on Steam to their Steam friends. Big deal, right?
You are aware that we are talking about Metro 2033 and Metro Last Light getting review bombed, aren't you? They are still on steam and can still be purchased.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Nope, not buying it, not on the older games. I can understand the new game getting bombed on metacritic or something, I'd complain about the change myself and I already have here, but whats happening is a mob with torches and pitchforks trying to destroy a lifetime of positive work because of one recent decision. Gamers are supposed to be the more educated members of the human race, that's the stereotype at least, but I think the sports hooligans are more rational these days.
It was a decision that gave those customers the finger. It shouldn't be an unexpected reaction. No one owes them anything. Their Steam users wouldn't have done so unprovoked. They took their game off that platform. If they had offered them on both but sold a little cheaper on Epic this would be an entirely different conversation. Maybe they should have treated their Steam customers with the consideration they wanted to be treated with.
By the way the negative reviews discuss the fact that the games are good but recommend not buying it because you can't trust the studio to support you the consumer. They're not wrong.
You know full well that I'm not happy about them pulling the game from Steam but this reaction is just too extreme to me. It's feral and over the top.
It's like if any unpopular decision in gaming is made now, everyone reacts as if it was as bad as the Battlefront II situation.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
You are aware that we are talking about Metro 2033 and Metro Last Light getting review bombed, aren't you? They are still on steam and can still be purchased.
Well, going exclusive make for a solid income of new users that want this particular game. Although not the best solution ethically, it still works. I just hope other platform that will followe EGS' steps on the way to compete with Steam like Discord and 4game will find other options for gaining attention
Not just offering regional pricing but refunding people who paid the old prices is impressive. Shows, imo, that not only are Epic "listening" i.e. monitoring what is going on but are very serious.
And with support for other platforms to be rolled out this year I am not surprised that Valve have started to "make noises" of how unfair it is of Epic to do exactly what Steam have done in the past and - arguably - continue to do when it comes to exclusives.
I hope this is the last we see of these shady backdoor deals. Something like this shouldn't have happened and should never happen again. That is not to say it won't. It most likely will. I just hope it doesn't.
I believe Steam, and other launchers, will insulate themselves from letting this happen again. I’m not sure how, but it wouldnt surprise me at all if it was in one way or another at the expense of the customer.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Not just offering regional pricing but refunding people who paid the old prices is impressive. Shows, imo, that not only are Epic "listening" i.e. monitoring what is going on but are very serious.
And with support for other platforms to be rolled out this year I am not surprised that Valve have started to "make noises" of how unfair it is of Epic to do exactly what Steam have done in the past and - arguably - continue to do when it comes to exclusives.
It's almost as if Epic isn't some sort of Chinese Yakuza front and actually, y'know, wants to provide some competition to Steam, not destroy PC gaming...
Not just offering regional pricing but refunding people who paid the old prices is impressive. Shows, imo, that not only are Epic "listening" i.e. monitoring what is going on but are very serious.
And with support for other platforms to be rolled out this year I am not surprised that Valve have started to "make noises" of how unfair it is of Epic to do exactly what Steam have done in the past and - arguably - continue to do when it comes to exclusives.
It's almost as if Epic isn't some sort of Chinese Yakuza front and actually, y'know, wants to provide some competition to Steam, not destroy PC gaming...
Crazy.
Yakuza is Japanese bruh... and by the way:
YOU NO PLAY OUR PC GAMEU. PC GAMEU DIEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Not just offering regional pricing but refunding people who paid the old prices is impressive. Shows, imo, that not only are Epic "listening" i.e. monitoring what is going on but are very serious.
And with support for other platforms to be rolled out this year I am not surprised that Valve have started to "make noises" of how unfair it is of Epic to do exactly what Steam have done in the past and - arguably - continue to do when it comes to exclusives.
It's almost as if Epic isn't some sort of Chinese Yakuza front and actually, y'know, wants to provide some competition to Steam, not destroy PC gaming...
Crazy.
In other good news, Steam announced that soon they'll launch Steam based dedicated servers for their non Steam games.
Not just offering regional pricing but refunding people who paid the old prices is impressive. Shows, imo, that not only are Epic "listening" i.e. monitoring what is going on but are very serious.
And with support for other platforms to be rolled out this year I am not surprised that Valve have started to "make noises" of how unfair it is of Epic to do exactly what Steam have done in the past and - arguably - continue to do when it comes to exclusives.
It's almost as if Epic isn't some sort of Chinese Yakuza front and actually, y'know, wants to provide some competition to Steam, not destroy PC gaming...
Crazy.
Yakuza is Japanese bruh... and by the way:
YOU NO PLAY OUR PC GAMEU. PC GAMEU DIEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!
Damn! My lack of Asian mafia knowledge is definitely showing. I lost street cred just now.
It's going to be mental if we get to point where there's like 50 different launchers though..
I can just imagine not remembering which game was on which launcher and opening the wrong one two or three times. That would be super annoying.
I'm resorting to the old age of having the actual game icons on desktop to combat that lol.
Games I play a lot I add an icon in the start menu. Older games, usually when I do a search from the start menu, the icon pops up, it will usually start the launcher first if needed, then launch the game. If the launcher isn't needed it will just start the game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"Online services, cross-platform features, a free game every two
weeks, and exclusives are all necessities for achieving a critical mass.
(There are other necessities, and we’re working on those over time."
"The Epic Games store will not require any sort of exclusivity when it
opens up later this year. Right now we’re manually curating a mix of new
& existing, exclusive & non-exclusive, Unreal & Unity &
other games."
"Y’all have every right to flame Epic for the inconvenience of multiple
storefronts. We’re prepared to take it, because we believe it would be
MUCH worse for the industry if Epic fails to gain traction, leaving
developers and gamers stuck paying this 30% store tax forever."
"Steam has veto power over prices, so if a multi-store developer wishes
to sell their game for a lower price on the Epic Games store than Steam,
then:
1) Valve can simply say “no”
2) Pricing disparity would likely anger Steam users, leading to review bombing, etc"
The 30% argument is a weak one, when it's the industry standard. Google, Microsoft, Apple etc stores have the exact same store tax. If anything, one of Epic managers mentioned in a tweet that 12% is unsustainable.
Also from my understanding Valve requests that they have the option to match a discount if it's offered somewhere else, which is fair.
As for the review bombing, if people go to Steam to check a game offered in the Epic store (the player score and reviews) then Epic failed as a storefront. They can pretend that review bombing is a thing, when in reality, scummy developers and bad games sugarcoated as good is more of one.
Comments
When a previously well received product breaks for some reason, or is altered from what the people originally purchased, or the monetization changes or ... any other reason that people perceive as a breach of trust, then people get to retract their recommendation.
This is one extra reason why metacritics score will always be inferior to player reviews, because it's static, while games change over time. Usually the change is an improvement, sometimes it's not. Updating reviews with favorable recommendations just doesn't generate enough traffic for the tabloid gaming sites to remain relevant. So they need to focus on the occasions where a change is negative, because that generates fake outrage which translates to short term revenue.
It seems that Epic is in the process of updating their price policy to adjust for regional price differences.
Also regarding the offline mode:
There is a fine line to be crossed though,naturally EVERY game with longevity like survival games,mmorpg's are going to change but i feel as a customer all we ask for is nothing scummy,like all a sudden p2w shows up in cash shops.
So there is no recourse for our purchase,you played 2 hours TOO BAD,now imagine if developers started EXPLOITING this?So the very same day,later at nigh after the purchasing goes slow they implement a full on cash shop that is p2w.So Steam says TOO BAD,should be expected,you played your 2 hours don't bother us.So then th flip side is developers will argue that players can literally finish a game in 1-2 days if they play 24/7,so play the entire game and ask for a refund.
This is why i mention ONGOING games that obviously will have ongoing charges/sales.Steam as a BUSINESS taking your money from SALES,should have the responsibility of monitoring the games they sell,if something MONETARY arises that was not there,we should get a full refund if we want.
Problem is Steam/Vale doesn't give two shits about you or me or the developers.You can bet after Epic takes a foothold Valve will come down with their asking price,something they COULD have or should have done long ago but with no competition they simply went the greedy way and only offer customers what the law says they must,otherwise you can bet Steam would say screw you which is what they used to do.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The player reviews are not something complicated. It's a simple question, do you recommend this game to your friends, yes or no?
So people don't recommend a game that is not sold on Steam to their Steam friends. Big deal, right?
It's like if any unpopular decision in gaming is made now, everyone reacts as if it was as bad as the Battlefront II situation.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NgjgM9sHX93ZfYoX9
and
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1rbqzUZdXcmdXTDn8
It's pretty obvious what is happening and why, right?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
And with support for other platforms to be rolled out this year I am not surprised that Valve have started to "make noises" of how unfair it is of Epic to do exactly what Steam have done in the past and - arguably - continue to do when it comes to exclusives.
I believe Steam, and other launchers, will insulate themselves from letting this happen again. I’m not sure how, but it wouldnt surprise me at all if it was in one way or another at the expense of the customer.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Crazy.
YOU NO PLAY OUR PC GAMEU. PC GAMEU DIEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqq1h9
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
1) Valve can simply say “no”
2) Pricing disparity would likely anger Steam users, leading to review bombing, etc"
Also from my understanding Valve requests that they have the option to match a discount if it's offered somewhere else, which is fair.
As for the review bombing, if people go to Steam to check a game offered in the Epic store (the player score and reviews) then Epic failed as a storefront. They can pretend that review bombing is a thing, when in reality, scummy developers and bad games sugarcoated as good is more of one.