What I'm looking for is a game with the features I liked from MMORPGs
the open worlds
the hustle and bustle of seeing other players in the realms and across different hubs
different nations or realms to start from
player generated content (guilds, nations, alliances, voting for leaders)
Fair, well though out OWPVP mechanics
the active/passive talent trees that provided deep variation in play-style for many classes
different weapons that further fork play-style variation
vast bestiary with interesting and varied mechanics
memorable npcs and lore
attention to detail and understanding that the smaller things matter (having to actually carry things during quests, actual looting animations)
crafting and gathering mini-games (instead of just pressing f or whatever)
housing
out of combat player professions
You could wrap these features any which way with different approaches and I'll take a stab. The problem is most of these devs can't even provide the bullets properly or if they do, they ruin it with some sh!# pay model or behave like absentee landlords when issues turn up.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
"People are ready for a new, heavily promoted, strong IP, AAA MMO. It's time."
I read this title and think to myself that, while it may be time, there isn't a game developer or potential game that would survive the "hype" and the unreasonable expectations of fans. I don't blame a single studio for saying, "Thanks but no thanks."
The problem is instead of honest with the players , they take the hype and raise fan's expectations . Then get game quick cash
Right now i don't even trust any game that try to raise hype instead of give out what gameplay is .
The traditional mmo we have become accustomed to is dead. Other than niche titles like Pantheon. We won't be seeing any AAA MMOs anytime soon. The next big mmo will be something revolutionary that no ones seen before. It won't be for a long time though. In till then, you're gonna see a lot of mmo-lite or hybrids. And mostly likely they will avoid using the title of mmo like the plague.
Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen...
Those aren't even released yet, so not sure why you posted them. Other than SC, the rest of niche at best. Just like I said.
Nobody wants to play a boring ass quest grinding, dungeon grinding mmorpg. There’s nothing new there for any of us.
100 million people playing Fortnite, but you can’t find 1% of those people who’s put it down and playing something as boring as the pve is in today’s mmorpgs.
I think the Best IP's in games right now are Mainstream Geek Culture.
For example: Marvel or DC comic IP. Right now, these are Kings in the Geek Culture Mainstream market.
I wager, Warcraft still has a strong following, and if they made a new WoW type MMO, they have a good chance of really taking off again.
Other highly popular things could work, for Sci-fi, we have Star Wars, Star Trek (Obviously), while other IP's like, Battlestar would kick off pretty good given it's reboot and nostalgic roots, and even WH40K if they could make a good game would attract a large audience.
For Modern Life, I joke not, a My Little Pony MMO, could really launch like a rocket.
But.. for me.. Honestly.. I don't think an MMO trying to please everyone is the right path.
I'd rather see MMO's take an IP like say, Star Wars, and just focus on building the best game they could for Star Wars Fans, not anyone else.. just my feels on that.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
To me the IP is the least important factor. It's really only there for visibility anyway . I would be just as happy with a generic game built to be "like" swg.
If its just going to be the same lame gameplay we have had in the past few attempts at MMOs then no thanks...i dont really want to see another ESO or GW2 type.
Nobody wants to play a boring ass quest grinding, dungeon grinding mmorpg. There’s nothing new there for any of us.
100 million people playing Fortnite, but you can’t find 1% of those people who’s put it down and playing something as boring as the pve is in today’s mmorpgs.
In a sense of Irony, I found the PvP in Fortnight boring. It lacked engagement with your opponent, just getting shot in the back or from some sniper gun from someone you can't even see.. lame.
The best PvP I have ever played, still remains Eternal Crusade. If there some other game out there that catches that kind of intensity and balance between Melee and Ranged.. I am all for trying it.
But for right now, most most PvP I have encountered as of late, is, well.. simply put, not really gripping, and the worst offenders are of course, MMO's that mix gear grind and totally unbalanced classes with PvP.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
i am pretty sure the market will be fairly dead until the next leap in tech comes around... Now i think MMO´s will see a new dawn once we get solid VR tech (because i am not sure we will ever see full immersive VR)
For now the MMO space has done what it can and will slowly fade away.
The traditional mmo we have become accustomed to is dead. Other than niche titles like Pantheon. We won't be seeing any AAA MMOs anytime soon. The next big mmo will be something revolutionary that no ones seen before. It won't be for a long time though. In till then, you're gonna see a lot of mmo-lite or hybrids. And mostly likely they will avoid using the title of mmo like the plague.
I agree with this 110%. The next MMO to do what WoW did is something that will push the genre forward in a huge way. What that game will be... who knows? It probably will be VR however and that means that it is a long ways away
This is what I think. I don't think we will even recognize it as an MMO. It seems to be something as big as The Realm, Meridian, UO etc. where. I was thinking it would be VR. . . . pfft maybe it's just LARP and it has been here all along. . LIGHTNING BOLT!
Nobody wants to play a boring ass quest grinding, dungeon grinding mmorpg. There’s nothing new there for any of us.
100 million people playing Fortnite, but you can’t find 1% of those people who’s put it down and playing something as boring as the pve is in today’s mmorpgs.
Is your character in Age of Wushu still sitting in a cave for months at a time training skills? How riveting. I love it when MMORPG pvp players try and make it like they're playing real pvp games. It's like "Me too you guys, me too!! I'm one of you!"
So many things I loved about Age of Wushu. Grinding in the cave mini games not one of them. On paper it likely seemed very cool but reality was it definitely was not.
Kidnapping though and your character being in the world even when logged out I thought was awesome! Sometimes I would log in to goodies and other times not so much.
It was an interesting game. It's more fun to poke bcbully because he's so salty about pve.
It was only a month ok... That cave became my temple, and when I emerged I made videos like this! UnFuknStoppable
I couldn't agree more! If I was more motivated and a better entrepreneur there might be one in the works right now XD
If anyone else is up to actually try to do something about the current state of MMORPGs I'd be happy to have some partners
On WoW though, one bad expansion won't kill WoW. If the next one is good everyone will be back. That's the good thing about MMORPGs, your players really invest in your game, so they want to like it. MMORPGs aren't a niche market, in their current form, maybe, but there is a lot of potential there.
Advancements in technology i think will need to change. Truely game changing decisions in a multiplayer game. Some how find a way to take "chores" out of a MMO but still have content. There needs to be truely dynamic evolving content that doesnt include an Expansion. Real exploration which i do think we are getting closer to having. Somehow make the journey important and really have a totally different type of "endgame" where there really isnt one, you are just in a world and it is evolving and you are actually living in it instead of chasing gear and stats. Eventually we will get there but we are still years away from a multiplayer version. But i do think we are getting closer and closer to really having a living breathing world in single player games.
I notice a lot of people are still a bit out of the loop as to what is actually possible.
Pretty much and even more so now with Cloud,ANYTHING is possible with game design.There are still people who tell me stuff like "YOU know how much that would cost" !!!
I shrug it off,yes i am VERY well aware of everything a developer can do and if it was not a viable probability i wouldn't mention it.
I have touched on it before,nobody is saying a developer has to make a monstrous 500 map,a million assets,500k sound/music files.I don't even need to go into specifics and start going down a list because i can simply say developers are giving us a VERY crappy effort.
Know why we continue to get crap games,well it is like the gas prices,they all just follow and feed on each other.Even if say 10 developers went all out and created a tremendous game,one i would give a 9/10,that is only a spit in the bucket of the entire market.So while they are out spending a lot of time and money,some small no namer comes along and makes millions off of Farmville..Habbo Hotel...LOL...Dota...etc etc.SO then all the developers see those low budget games making millions and think man oh man,we are not going to risk losing our shirt when we could just make games like that and even if we fail 10x over we still won't lose much and can try again.
The market is too big now,the vast majority are only going to give you as good a game as the next guy in that genre so be prepared for many years of crappy sub par games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
No way will there be another AAA, highly marketed, big budget, MMORPG...at least not for a very long time....if ever.
1. All the fun bits of mmorpgs "themeparking" and "sandboxing" was able to be split off as a game type of their own and are much cheaper and more successful...
2. the creation of a MMORPG takes too much money and too long, the maintenance and live development cost too much to keep going.
3. Expectations are always far greater than what is typically possible.
4. Developers do not want to devote their entire life on the gamble that a MMORPG is...one that has paid off very few times vs how many attempts.
5. Investors can make more money on safer game choices, which is why we dont see any more big budget games, aside from a few in asia, which fail when they get to the west further proving the investors point.
Golden age of mmorpgs is over. WOW was the goal in every mmorpg (even if it wasnt like wow investors thought wow levels of population was realistic...and it wasnt)
As a gamer, while i miss the hype cycle and honeymoon phase of mmorpgs, and remember it fondly, i dont want to go back. Ill take a single player RPG for the story for $20-$60 anyday over a mmorpg. Ill take a co-op action RPG over raids/dungeon farming in a mmorpg anyday, for the same price. Ill take MOBA/FPS over mmorpg pvp anyday and those are typically free. ARPG games do the loot farming better than any mmorpg could balance...
Look mmorpgs got big on the fact that social online gaming was new, nothing more. People are sick of socializing online at this point. Look at chat in most games, remember text chat in the early 2000's? It wont ever be like that again. It was all a novelty that wore off with time, revealing a flawed game type that tried to do too much at once, creating a mediocre cobbling together of multiple game types stapled together by a boring a dated time gated progression system most hated anyway. Now you just pick up a specific game type and instead of grinding for the activity you like you use the activity to grind what you want. Big difference.
Also apex legends is showing what a massive waste of money overhyping and marketing is. Skip all the drama, launch the game, save a massive amount of money. That wont be the last game to stealth launch...it is the first of many.
As was once said "its dead jim" regarding the AAA over hyped mmorpg. I bet half the indy games in development are still in development in 5-10 years and the ones that do launch barely keep a niche crowd...which is exactly how every other indy small studio take on MMORPGS has done in the past.
Grim post but the sooner people realize its over the sooner people can move on, the sooner these devs crowdfunding on hope alone can stop scamming, or at least living in a fantasy world that a small studio will create the next wow.
Well to the last poster,that is stuff that most serious rpg gamer's would scoff at.That is what i call VERY cheap ..LAZY content.
The best content EVER in the history of mmorpg gaming is Besieged in FFXI.People would quit their xp parties to go play it when it was on,there were no loot drops,it was FUN,something developers don't seem able to pull off so all they give us is loot runs because for some reason,loot attracts a bigger crowd than actual FUN.
I see it in EVERY single game,i watch people play D@ or TD2 or well any game and all they care about is the loot well or rank if there is such a system for ranks.
My point is that i wouldn't scoff at mmorpg's and thin k single player is just more relaxing or fun,we simply need a good quality developer to do the genre right.They can't pull off FUN,they can't pull off immersion,geesh immersion WHERE,not a clue how to handle that part.Generated worlds with 1-2 cheaply destined systems ,like a yellow marker over a npc head and likely markers telling you where to go,that is about the extent of mmorpg's.
So then on the thread topic,WHO is going to bring us that grand game,as of now and seeing all the big developers and how they handle development,i do not see a single developer bringing us a AAA mmorpg.The closest i have seen for immersion,realism,open ended,no markers,ECO system is Atlas and it is not even a rpg so kind of sums up how bad the developers are that make rpg's.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"expectations"nope i only expect what IS possible and a LOT is very possible in game development.The only thing developers see is $$$,how can we make the cheapest game possible,how can we get it done as fast as possible,do we have a good enough gimmick to start sell it as is as an early access title.
They are not sitting back behind closed doors thinking,man i love this game,let's make it really good,everything is a cash grab,cash flow,these devs are just a business trying to get your money and nothing more,they are NOT passionate game developers. Then we have the modern era,VERY costly to make a AAA game,so the odds of a lowly John Carmack or The guys who made Unreal or the Salty Dog kids coming along out of nowhere and delivering a solid product it just not going to happen,instead those small upstart developers can only afford to give us Dota or LOL or PubG POE/Diablo etc etc,nothing i want to play.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well to the last poster,that is stuff that most serious rpg gamer's would scoff at.That is what i call VERY cheap ..LAZY content.
The best content EVER in the history of mmorpg gaming is Besieged in FFXI.People would quit their xp parties to go play it when it was on,there were no loot drops,it was FUN,something developers don't seem able to pull off so all they give us is loot runs because for some reason,loot attracts a bigger crowd than actual FUN.
PVP in FFXI was certainly a blast.
I'd like to add Guild wars 1 as a shining example of how to do PVP as well. Was so much fun
5. Investors can make more money on safer game choices, which is why we dont see any more big budget games, aside from a few in asia, which fail when they get to the west further proving the investors point.
As a gamer, while i miss the hype cycle and honeymoon phase of mmorpgs, and remember it fondly, i dont want to go back. Ill take a single player RPG for the story for $20-$60 anyday over a mmorpg. Ill take a co-op action RPG over raids/dungeon farming in a mmorpg anyday, for the same price. Ill take MOBA/FPS over mmorpg pvp anyday and those are typically free. ARPG games do the loot farming better than any mmorpg could balance..
Agree on both those.
I don't think the issue is as others have suggested in that the market isn't there. I think there will always be a market.
The problem is that to be successful, you need to be able to generate hype and really take a bite into WoW's market share long term. That is a big gamble to take - and requires a bit of luck in timing.
Say you were building the next big thing MMO for years -- and you launched 4 months after WoW's legion expansion. You would have tanked.
Legion did great, people returned to WoW in droves. (I know I returned after not playing the game since WoTLK)
On the flip side, say you launched right now. My understanding is the expansion was generally not super well received - it would be a prime time to launch the next big thing and try to steal away WoW's player base.
That said, the other big issue I see is where you generate hype from. WoW was easy to hype - they were launching the world of warcraft. Tons of people played warcraft growing up - it was familiar and it wasn't a hard sell. A mmo from a company I respect (blizzard) set in a world I am familiar with? Sign me up.
There are only a handful of games I can think of that really launched with that same existing history behind them -- warhammer, lord of the rings online, star wars galaxies, elder scrolls online, final fantasy online (FFXI and FFXIV).
Lotro stands out to me as the one that should have been -- It had everything needed (in my opinion) to be great. The problem was it launched a few months after WoW's first major expansion.
The rest, outside of warhammer, all did fairly well from what I understand.
So I definitely think there is space for a major AAA MMO -- it just needs to hit the market at the right time and have some good name recognition behind it.
With that in mind, I personally don't have the time to play MMOs anymore! So what I'd love to see are more quality single player RPGs on the market.
Comments
- the open worlds
- the hustle and bustle of seeing other players in the realms and across different hubs
- different nations or realms to start from
- player generated content (guilds, nations, alliances, voting for leaders)
- Fair, well though out OWPVP mechanics
- the active/passive talent trees that provided deep variation in play-style for many classes
- different weapons that further fork play-style variation
- vast bestiary with interesting and varied mechanics
- memorable npcs and lore
- attention to detail and understanding that the smaller things matter (having to actually carry things during quests, actual looting animations)
- crafting and gathering mini-games (instead of just pressing f or whatever)
- housing
- out of combat player professions
You could wrap these features any which way with different approaches and I'll take a stab. The problem is most of these devs can't even provide the bullets properly or if they do, they ruin it with some sh!# pay model or behave like absentee landlords when issues turn up.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
100 million people playing Fortnite, but you can’t find 1% of those people who’s put it down and playing something as boring as the pve is in today’s mmorpgs.
For example: Marvel or DC comic IP. Right now, these are Kings in the Geek Culture Mainstream market.
I wager, Warcraft still has a strong following, and if they made a new WoW type MMO, they have a good chance of really taking off again.
Other highly popular things could work, for Sci-fi, we have Star Wars, Star Trek (Obviously), while other IP's like, Battlestar would kick off pretty good given it's reboot and nostalgic roots, and even WH40K if they could make a good game would attract a large audience.
For Modern Life, I joke not, a My Little Pony MMO, could really launch like a rocket.
But.. for me.. Honestly.. I don't think an MMO trying to please everyone is the right path.
I'd rather see MMO's take an IP like say, Star Wars, and just focus on building the best game they could for Star Wars Fans, not anyone else.. just my feels on that.
The best PvP I have ever played, still remains Eternal Crusade. If there some other game out there that catches that kind of intensity and balance between Melee and Ranged.. I am all for trying it.
But for right now, most most PvP I have encountered as of late, is, well.. simply put, not really gripping, and the worst offenders are of course, MMO's that mix gear grind and totally unbalanced classes with PvP.
For now the MMO space has done what it can and will slowly fade away.
This have been a good conversation
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
https://youtu.be/iAzo5wjhU7Q
Just watched a bunch bunch of my old vids. Oh how I miss the experience
If I was more motivated and a better entrepreneur there might be one in the works right now XD
If anyone else is up to actually try to do something about the current state of MMORPGs I'd be happy to have some partners
On WoW though, one bad expansion won't kill WoW. If the next one is good everyone will be back.
That's the good thing about MMORPGs, your players really invest in your game, so they want to like it. MMORPGs aren't a niche market, in their current form, maybe, but there is a lot of potential there.
-Computer specs no one cares about: check.
-MMOs played no one cares about: check.
-Xfire stats no one cares about: check.
-Signature no one cares about: check.
------------------------------------------------------------
-Narcissism: check.
Pretty much and even more so now with Cloud,ANYTHING is possible with game design.There are still people who tell me stuff like "YOU know how much that would cost" !!!
I shrug it off,yes i am VERY well aware of everything a developer can do and if it was not a viable probability i wouldn't mention it.
I have touched on it before,nobody is saying a developer has to make a monstrous 500 map,a million assets,500k sound/music files.I don't even need to go into specifics and start going down a list because i can simply say developers are giving us a VERY crappy effort.
Know why we continue to get crap games,well it is like the gas prices,they all just follow and feed on each other.Even if say 10 developers went all out and created a tremendous game,one i would give a 9/10,that is only a spit in the bucket of the entire market.So while they are out spending a lot of time and money,some small no namer comes along and makes millions off of Farmville..Habbo Hotel...LOL...Dota...etc etc.SO then all the developers see those low budget games making millions and think man oh man,we are not going to risk losing our shirt when we could just make games like that and even if we fail 10x over we still won't lose much and can try again.
The market is too big now,the vast majority are only going to give you as good a game as the next guy in that genre so be prepared for many years of crappy sub par games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1. All the fun bits of mmorpgs "themeparking" and "sandboxing" was able to be split off as a game type of their own and are much cheaper and more successful...
2. the creation of a MMORPG takes too much money and too long, the maintenance and live development cost too much to keep going.
3. Expectations are always far greater than what is typically possible.
4. Developers do not want to devote their entire life on the gamble that a MMORPG is...one that has paid off very few times vs how many attempts.
5. Investors can make more money on safer game choices, which is why we dont see any more big budget games, aside from a few in asia, which fail when they get to the west further proving the investors point.
Golden age of mmorpgs is over. WOW was the goal in every mmorpg (even if it wasnt like wow investors thought wow levels of population was realistic...and it wasnt)
As a gamer, while i miss the hype cycle and honeymoon phase of mmorpgs, and remember it fondly, i dont want to go back. Ill take a single player RPG for the story for $20-$60 anyday over a mmorpg. Ill take a co-op action RPG over raids/dungeon farming in a mmorpg anyday, for the same price. Ill take MOBA/FPS over mmorpg pvp anyday and those are typically free. ARPG games do the loot farming better than any mmorpg could balance...
Look mmorpgs got big on the fact that social online gaming was new, nothing more. People are sick of socializing online at this point. Look at chat in most games, remember text chat in the early 2000's? It wont ever be like that again. It was all a novelty that wore off with time, revealing a flawed game type that tried to do too much at once, creating a mediocre cobbling together of multiple game types stapled together by a boring a dated time gated progression system most hated anyway. Now you just pick up a specific game type and instead of grinding for the activity you like you use the activity to grind what you want. Big difference.
Also apex legends is showing what a massive waste of money overhyping and marketing is. Skip all the drama, launch the game, save a massive amount of money. That wont be the last game to stealth launch...it is the first of many.
As was once said "its dead jim" regarding the AAA over hyped mmorpg. I bet half the indy games in development are still in development in 5-10 years and the ones that do launch barely keep a niche crowd...which is exactly how every other indy small studio take on MMORPGS has done in the past.
Grim post but the sooner people realize its over the sooner people can move on, the sooner these devs crowdfunding on hope alone can stop scamming, or at least living in a fantasy world that a small studio will create the next wow.
The best content EVER in the history of mmorpg gaming is Besieged in FFXI.People would quit their xp parties to go play it when it was on,there were no loot drops,it was FUN,something developers don't seem able to pull off so all they give us is loot runs because for some reason,loot attracts a bigger crowd than actual FUN.
I see it in EVERY single game,i watch people play D@ or TD2 or well any game and all they care about is the loot well or rank if there is such a system for ranks.
My point is that i wouldn't scoff at mmorpg's and thin k single player is just more relaxing or fun,we simply need a good quality developer to do the genre right.They can't pull off FUN,they can't pull off immersion,geesh immersion WHERE,not a clue how to handle that part.Generated worlds with 1-2 cheaply destined systems ,like a yellow marker over a npc head and likely markers telling you where to go,that is about the extent of mmorpg's.
So then on the thread topic,WHO is going to bring us that grand game,as of now and seeing all the big developers and how they handle development,i do not see a single developer bringing us a AAA mmorpg.The closest i have seen for immersion,realism,open ended,no markers,ECO system is Atlas and it is not even a rpg so kind of sums up how bad the developers are that make rpg's.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They are not sitting back behind closed doors thinking,man i love this game,let's make it really good,everything is a cash grab,cash flow,these devs are just a business trying to get your money and nothing more,they are NOT passionate game developers.
Then we have the modern era,VERY costly to make a AAA game,so the odds of a lowly John Carmack or The guys who made Unreal or the Salty Dog kids coming along out of nowhere and delivering a solid product it just not going to happen,instead those small upstart developers can only afford to give us Dota or LOL or PubG POE/Diablo etc etc,nothing i want to play.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The problem is that to be successful, you need to be able to generate hype and really take a bite into WoW's market share long term. That is a big gamble to take - and requires a bit of luck in timing. Say you were building the next big thing MMO for years -- and you launched 4 months after WoW's legion expansion. You would have tanked.
Legion did great, people returned to WoW in droves. (I know I returned after not playing the game since WoTLK) On the flip side, say you launched right now. My understanding is the expansion was generally not super well received - it would be a prime time to launch the next big thing and try to steal away WoW's player base.
That said, the other big issue I see is where you generate hype from. WoW was easy to hype - they were launching the world of warcraft. Tons of people played warcraft growing up - it was familiar and it wasn't a hard sell. A mmo from a company I respect (blizzard) set in a world I am familiar with? Sign me up.
There are only a handful of games I can think of that really launched with that same existing history behind them -- warhammer, lord of the rings online, star wars galaxies, elder scrolls online, final fantasy online (FFXI and FFXIV).
Lotro stands out to me as the one that should have been -- It had everything needed (in my opinion) to be great. The problem was it launched a few months after WoW's first major expansion.
The rest, outside of warhammer, all did fairly well from what I understand. So I definitely think there is space for a major AAA MMO -- it just needs to hit the market at the right time and have some good name recognition behind it.
With that in mind, I personally don't have the time to play MMOs anymore! So what I'd love to see are more quality single player RPGs on the market.