I want to play wow without dungeonfinder, just spamming in zone and summon ppl and fight with the other faction to have a summon.
Many will disagree I'm sure but for me this was one of the best parts of playing pre-dugeon finder which is completely lost in the modern game. I often reminisce with guild mates from back then about this very thing
I don't mind dungeonfinder. I was lucky to be in a "respected" raiding guild. As a healer I hardly ever had to advertise in chat to find a group. I do know that a lot of people had a harder time to find a group, mainly due to class or gear. What I do miss from Vanilla is "server reputation". Ninja-loot, rage-quit, toxic behavior, guild tag, etc were things that sticked you as a player. With groupfinder that was removed.
According to patch notes history, the LFG tool was in before 1.12. LFD tool was introduced between 1.12 and 2.xx for PvE, but was turned on for PvP battlegrounds during 1.12.
I didn't start playing until late BC but people still used LFG a lot then. I hated chat pugging. It's what started turning chat into the annoying cesspool it became. You can't just LFG/LFM in chat because of the helpful comment and advice brigade, and then the arguments begin, and self-appointed moderators. That's why LFG chat sucks and people migrated to LFD. I expect people will still want to use LFG more than chat, but maybe not.
edit: I'd rather just find a small guild for the 2 or 3 months I'll play and run content with them. I'm not big on pugs in any form even now, so a guild is the answer for me.
I don't thing LFG was released until 1.13, the BC pre-patch.
BFA gets mega coverage and Classic has a few lines of "yeah lol yeah working on it lol here have some vaporware babble lol lmfao lol oh look tumbleweed." Whatever.
I'm probably not touching Classic with a barge pole. I'm just not feeling the love for it from Blizz.
There’s a completely untapped market for old school style MMOs. Not just WoW, but EQ, SWG, FFXI, etc all have private servers. I think AB will underestimate how popular this will be.
I would disagree there is some huge demand for the old school style games. I would argue that there is more people who want to play the older games they love in their original form due to nostalgia than that will pick up on the newer games coming out. SoL will appeal to a tiny base of folks and Pantheon ought to be bigger but I do not believe you will exceed 100k players either.
Comes down to time and the old school games were time investments. People just do not have as much of it these days as they once did which is why mobile tends to be big because you can play it in spurts when you are on the go.
I will play Pantheon but I am not under the illusion that they games will be monster hits to even make the bigger games flinch. Is there an audience? Sure but then there is also an audience for the old XFL league as well.
I see this cited as the reason mobile is popular and time-intensive games are less popular, but what metrics do we have to show the average gamer spends less time gaming these days than did the first-generation MMORPG gamers? I've yet to see any statistical comparison that would lend credence to the idea gamers "just don't have time anymore." All the data I've seen indicates the average gamer spends about the same time gaming these days as they did back then.
There are a few statistics that cover this very thing but they are industry pages that you have to pay for the access to because of the cost and time of the research. Most development houses have these on hand given to them by their publisher and or marketing teams.
That's interesting, because the stats I do have access to really indicate there's a healthy spectrum of gamers ranging from less than an hour at a time all the way up to over and hour and a half per session, roughly. Available stats from sites like Limelight Networks for 2018 has the average session time pegged at about an hour and twenty minutes or so, with over a quarter of gamers playing for 7 hours or more every week. Those averages include mobile gaming populations, the poster child of the so-called "casual" gamers.
There's over 1 billion PC gamers alone worldwide. By the stats I mentioned above, over 250 million of them average over 7 hours a week on video games. Of that number, over half spend 12 hours or more. Again, this is PC only, and that still leaves over 125 million gamers who play 12 hours or more a week. How many is needed to sustain an MMORPG?
Gamers have more choices in gaming today, spread across multiple platforms. As such, it would take much more than it did in the past to get gamers to dedicate themselves to a specific game. When i played DAoC originally, I literally devoted my gaming time to that game. These days, games have started developing ultra-niches that see me going, "well, if I wanna PvP, MechWarrior Online is built from the ground up for that. No point in playing an MMORPG made for PvE that's merely tacked on PvP or vice versa." I didn't say that back when I played DAoC vanilla. But the whole "they don't have enough time to log in an hour at a time," seems to ignore that MMORPG gamers were always a hardcore niche before, concentrated on the upper end of average gaming time from the beginning. There still, by the stats I've been able to gather on the web, seems to be a rather sizable niche of gamers that have the time. But can a developer create an MMORPG that's worth it over a series of smaller-scope games that scratch specific "itches" individually?
EDIT- something interesting to note is that Limelight showed Asian countries typically have a much higher percentage of the most casual gamers. If those regions also contain the most gamers and, as such, the majority of possible revenue, I can see why devs and pubs have opted to err towards the casual gamer. But that seems to be a matter of focus, and does not destroy or eliminate the rather large portion of gamers who maintain more hardcore gaming habits. It just makes profits easier when you focus on the casual section, instead.
There’s a completely untapped market for old school style MMOs. Not just WoW, but EQ, SWG, FFXI, etc all have private servers. I think AB will underestimate how popular this will be.
I would disagree there is some huge demand for the old school style games. I would argue that there is more people who want to play the older games they love in their original form due to nostalgia than that will pick up on the newer games coming out. SoL will appeal to a tiny base of folks and Pantheon ought to be bigger but I do not believe you will exceed 100k players either.
Comes down to time and the old school games were time investments. People just do not have as much of it these days as they once did which is why mobile tends to be big because you can play it in spurts when you are on the go.
I will play Pantheon but I am not under the illusion that they games will be monster hits to even make the bigger games flinch. Is there an audience? Sure but then there is also an audience for the old XFL league as well.
I see this cited as the reason mobile is popular and time-intensive games are less popular, but what metrics do we have to show the average gamer spends less time gaming these days than did the first-generation MMORPG gamers? I've yet to see any statistical comparison that would lend credence to the idea gamers "just don't have time anymore." All the data I've seen indicates the average gamer spends about the same time gaming these days as they did back then.
There are a few statistics that cover this very thing but they are industry pages that you have to pay for the access to because of the cost and time of the research. Most development houses have these on hand given to them by their publisher and or marketing teams.
That's interesting, because the stats I do have access to really indicate there's a healthy spectrum of gamers ranging from less than an hour at a time all the way up to over and hour and a half per session, roughly. Available stats from sites like Limelight Networks for 2018 has the average session time pegged at about an hour and twenty minutes or so, with over a quarter of gamers playing for 7 hours or more every week. Those averages include mobile gaming populations, the poster child of the so-called "casual" gamers.
There's over 1 billion PC gamers alone worldwide. By the stats I mentioned above, over 250 million of them average over 7 hours a week on video games. Of that number, over half spend 12 hours or more. Again, this is PC only, and that still leaves over 125 million gamers who play 12 hours or more a week. How many is needed to sustain an MMORPG?
Gamers have more choices in gaming today, spread across multiple platforms. As such, it would take much more than it did in the past to get gamers to dedicate themselves to a specific game. When i played DAoC originally, I literally devoted my gaming time to that game. These days, games have started developing ultra-niches that see me going, "well, if I wanna PvP, MechWarrior Online is built from the ground up for that. No point in playing an MMORPG made for PvE that's merely tacked on PvP or vice versa." I didn't say that back when I played DAoC vanilla. But the whole "they don't have enough time to log in an hour at a time," seems to ignore that MMORPG gamers were always a hardcore niche before, concentrated on the upper end of average gaming time from the beginning. There still, by the stats I've been able to gather on the web, seems to be a rather sizable niche of gamers that have the time. But can a developer create an MMORPG that's worth it over a series of smaller-scope games that scratch specific "itches" individually?
EDIT- something interesting to note is that Limelight showed Asian countries typically have a much higher percentage of the most casual gamers. If those regions also contain the most gamers and, as such, the majority of possible revenue, I can see why devs and pubs have opted to err towards the casual gamer. But that seems to be a matter of focus, and does not destroy or eliminate the rather large portion of gamers who maintain more hardcore gaming habits. It just makes profits easier when you focus on the casual section, instead.
What is behind the statistical paywall is the breakdown of gamers by region, age and more importantly by segment. That is key in developing a metric viable in financial budget planning. The numbers don’t support longer play session games anymore like a mmorpg with a classical slant. Not to a degree that a larger budget house would take it on. Not saying there is not an audience. The data just does not show that the ROI is there. No one is willing to risk a large budget and more importantly the time commitment to a develop an mmorpg like In the past. The casual gamer dominates the market for sure. The issue is outside of the Fortnites of the world the number of the vital ‘core’ gamer has not grown statistically as large as one would would think. This is the key. Expanding that number.
Thanks for sharing your insight, as it informs the numbers that are available to the public for sure.
I definitely understand the idea that alienating 75% of the industry demographic is not something the financial investors would see as a good bet.
According to patch notes history, the LFG tool was in before 1.12. LFD tool was introduced between 1.12 and 2.xx for PvE, but was turned on for PvP battlegrounds during 1.12.
I didn't start playing until late BC but people still used LFG a lot then. I hated chat pugging. It's what started turning chat into the annoying cesspool it became. You can't just LFG/LFM in chat because of the helpful comment and advice brigade, and then the arguments begin, and self-appointed moderators. That's why LFG chat sucks and people migrated to LFD. I expect people will still want to use LFG more than chat, but maybe not.
edit: I'd rather just find a small guild for the 2 or 3 months I'll play and run content with them. I'm not big on pugs in any form even now, so a guild is the answer for me.
I don't thing LFG was released until 1.13, the BC pre-patch.
All basically reviewing LFG lifecycle. It's first form arrived in 1.3, major update in 1.5. The summoning arrived in 2.x. I think the modern type LFD didn't happen until late 2.x or between BC and Wrath. I don't remember and didn't research that far.
The modern Dungeon Finder didnt happen until the later part of Lich King.
I would play on the emulated servers of WoW if there were any PvE servers but they merged Lighthope with the PvP one.
The instability of private servers is the principle reason to eschew them. You develop your character and spend good time that is very precious (you'll understand as you grow older how precious time is) and they go and decide to obliterate the PvE aspect and make it PvP or get into some hissy fit among themselves and wham server is in trouble and you can no longer play.
I would play on the emulated servers of WoW if there were any PvE servers but they merged Lighthope with the PvP one.
Symmetry WoW is a PvE-only 1.12.1 private server. It's not big, but the good thing about it is that the community is tight and it being small makes it immune to drama that happens on big servers, there are no Chinese bot farmers, because it's so small, there are bo gold sellers too. And due to the small numbers, the communication between staff and players is more solid.
Thanks looking into this. I am so glad you posted this.
I would play on the emulated servers of WoW if there were any PvE servers but they merged Lighthope with the PvP one.
I have created a character recently on the Lighthope server just to try the game before classic launches because i have never played WOW, I would say i have been ganked about 95% of the time while leveling from people with ???
Anyone know if there will be PVE servers for classic ?
I would play on the emulated servers of WoW if there were any PvE servers but they merged Lighthope with the PvP one.
I have created a character recently on the Lighthope server just to try the game before classic launches because i have never played WOW, I would say i have been ganked about 95% of the time while leveling from people with ???
Anyone know if there will be PVE servers for classic ?
Unfortunately that is the epic "World PvP" that folks always point to for classic wow. Sure there are a few real battles once in a while, but the extreme majority of PvP is ganking/griefing people that are lower than you.
I would play on the emulated servers of WoW if there were any PvE servers but they merged Lighthope with the PvP one.
I have created a character recently on the Lighthope server just to try the game before classic launches because i have never played WOW, I would say i have been ganked about 95% of the time while leveling from people with ???
Anyone know if there will be PVE servers for classic ?
Unfortunately that is the epic "World PvP" that folks always point to for classic wow. Sure there are a few real battles once in a while, but the extreme majority of PvP is ganking/griefing people that are lower than you.
There is a simple fix for that. If you instigate an attack with someone a certain amount of levels lower than you the stat and level bonus is reversed.
I personally probably wont be playing any form of Wow. But for everyone's sake, I hope it is a success and takes off. The more old school style MMO's that gain traction, the better. Investors and companies may start seeing that there is a market there, and it will give the MMO world a chance to cycle back into the mix.
I personally probably wont be playing any form of Wow. But for everyone's sake, I hope it is a success and takes off. The more old school style MMO's that gain traction, the better. Investors and companies may start seeing that there is a market there, and it will give the MMO world a chance to cycle back into the mix.
There isn't and they won't, but dreaming is fun. Some people say that dreaming, fantasies, and imagination were the stuffs games used to be made of, not revenue streams. I think that's all a myth though.
Well sure it was
They were dreaming of cars, yachts, beautiful babes and all the other things they were going to spend the money on
According to patch notes history, the LFG tool was in before 1.12. LFD tool was introduced between 1.12 and 2.xx for PvE, but was turned on for PvP battlegrounds during 1.12.
I didn't start playing until late BC but people still used LFG a lot then. I hated chat pugging. It's what started turning chat into the annoying cesspool it became. You can't just LFG/LFM in chat because of the helpful comment and advice brigade, and then the arguments begin, and self-appointed moderators. That's why LFG chat sucks and people migrated to LFD. I expect people will still want to use LFG more than chat, but maybe not.
edit: I'd rather just find a small guild for the 2 or 3 months I'll play and run content with them. I'm not big on pugs in any form even now, so a guild is the answer for me.
I don't thing LFG was released until 1.13, the BC pre-patch.
All basically reviewing LFG lifecycle. It's first form arrived in 1.3, major update in 1.5. The summoning arrived in 2.x. I think the modern type LFD didn't happen until late 2.x or between BC and Wrath. I don't remember and didn't research that far.
The modern Dungeon Finder didnt happen until the later part of Lich King.
It was added when ICC was added in WOTLK yeah. But I can't tell if they are talking about LFG chat? Because i do remember having to spam chat up until the end of WOTLK for groups or get ones through my guild.
I would play on the emulated servers of WoW if there were any PvE servers but they merged Lighthope with the PvP one.
I have created a character recently on the Lighthope server just to try the game before classic launches because i have never played WOW, I would say i have been ganked about 95% of the time while leveling from people with ???
Anyone know if there will be PVE servers for classic ?
I got yanked into the new server for Anarchy Online so no Symmetry for now. Try that server it is PvE for classic WoW .
The interest for Classic Wow will shock most here. Just wait. This thing will be bigger than you expect.
It's not the people here that need to be shocked by classic WoW. It's the people at Activision Blizzard that need the wake up call. I hope vanilla WoW hit's it off over a million at the least and they take a good long look at wtf they are doing and the direction they want to go. Mobile games with cash shops are not something the entire company was built on and they will just end up alienating their entire fanbase.
Personally I want to play vanilla with all my heart and love it but I balk at giving these current clowns money for getting a 15 year old game to work again. It's a real struggle love/hate realization.
I have no confidence in the current Diablo Immortal Activision Blizzard but I want to play and support vanilla WoW.
It's sad and depressing, and probably going to be the biggest MMORPG release of the next couple years...
That said,
No King lives forever.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I'm probably not touching Classic with a barge pole. I'm just not feeling the love for it from Blizz.
There's over 1 billion PC gamers alone worldwide. By the stats I mentioned above, over 250 million of them average over 7 hours a week on video games. Of that number, over half spend 12 hours or more. Again, this is
PC only, and that still leaves over 125 million gamers who play 12 hours or more a week. How many is needed to sustain an MMORPG?
Gamers have more choices in gaming today, spread across multiple platforms. As such, it would take much more than it did in the past to get gamers to dedicate themselves to a specific game. When i played DAoC originally, I literally devoted my gaming time to that game. These days, games have started developing ultra-niches that see me going, "well, if I wanna PvP, MechWarrior Online is built from the ground up for that. No point in playing an MMORPG made for PvE that's merely tacked on PvP or vice versa." I didn't say that back when I played DAoC vanilla. But the whole "they don't have enough time to log in an hour at a time," seems to ignore that MMORPG gamers were always a hardcore niche before, concentrated on the upper end of average gaming time from the beginning. There still, by the stats I've been able to gather on the web, seems to be a rather sizable niche of gamers that have the time. But can a developer create an MMORPG that's worth it over a series of smaller-scope games that scratch specific "itches" individually?
EDIT- something interesting to note is that Limelight showed Asian countries typically have a much higher percentage of the most casual gamers. If those regions also contain the most gamers and, as such, the majority of possible revenue, I can see why devs and pubs have opted to err towards the casual gamer. But that seems to be a matter of focus, and does not destroy or eliminate the rather large portion of gamers who maintain more hardcore gaming habits. It just makes profits easier when you focus on the casual section, instead.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I definitely understand the idea that alienating 75% of the industry demographic is not something the financial investors would see as a good bet.
Anyone know if there will be PVE servers for classic ?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
They were dreaming of cars, yachts, beautiful babes and all the other things they were going to spend the money on
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
We've got five groups already pre-formed and ready to go for WoW Classic with our SOL gaming community. Gonna be an epic summer/fall/winter!
Blizzard is garbage.. Blizzard is no longer the same company that made Original WoW...
All the good developers are long gone from Blizzard.. AKA Blizzard North.
The interest for Classic Wow will shock most here. Just wait. This thing will be bigger than you expect.
You stay sassy!
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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