Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can't seen one indie company create one successful MMO yet...
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
I can't seen one indie company create one successful MMO yet...
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
The AAA companies you see "in beta" have been in development for a long ass time. When an indie company want's to make an MMO they first need to secure the funding and start as early as possible. Typically what an indie showcases to potential players at first is only a fraction of what a AAA (typically) showcases to potential players. What I'm saying is that you are probably comparing the development time from a AAA company and an indie company, but are also neglecting the fact that the first time you seen the indie game it was barely started compared to the state of AAA game the first time you saw it.
Expectation is that the indie game will be done in a year or two when in fact they're just getting started.
I can't seen one indie company create one successful MMO yet...
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
The AAA companies you see "in beta" have been in development for a long ass time. When an indie company want's to make an MMO they first need to secure the funding and start as early as possible. Typically what an indie showcases to potential players at first is only a fraction of what a AAA (typically) showcases to potential players. What I'm saying is that you are probably comparing the development time from a AAA company and an indie company, but are also neglecting the fact that the first time you seen the indie game it was barely started compared to the state of AAA game the first time you saw it.
Expectation is that the indie game will be done in a year or two when in fact they're just getting started.
Err, the expectation the indies will be done in a "year or two" comes from the indie devs themselves, despite layman's attempts to state otherwise.
SC, CU, COE, CF and a host of others promised unreasonably short delivery dates of two years or less, no one forced them into said position.
Yeah, we know better, apparently experienced game developers don't?
Or maybe they just lied to get our money? Say it isn't so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can't seen one indie company create one successful MMO yet...
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
The AAA companies you see "in beta" have been in development for a long ass time. When an indie company want's to make an MMO they first need to secure the funding and start as early as possible. Typically what an indie showcases to potential players at first is only a fraction of what a AAA (typically) showcases to potential players. What I'm saying is that you are probably comparing the development time from a AAA company and an indie company, but are also neglecting the fact that the first time you seen the indie game it was barely started compared to the state of AAA game the first time you saw it.
Expectation is that the indie game will be done in a year or two when in fact they're just getting started.
Err, the expectation the indies will be done in a "year or two" comes from the indie devs themselves, despite layman's attempts to state otherwise.
SC, CU, COE, CF and a host of others promised unreasonably short delivery dates of two years or less, no one forced them into said position.
Yeah, we know better, apparently experienced game developers don't?
Or maybe they just lied to get our money? Say it isn't so.
It's impossible to say for sure, though I know you create your own opinion and call it fact, but the reality is some may actually have that expectation, some do it to encourage financing.. after all whos going to pay money knowing their game isn't going to be released in 15 years? You think SC would have secured nearly as much funding had they been more forthcoming? Does that mean they're not making a game? Be realistic.
I think Blizzard started WOW's design for people who play MMORPGs and kept changing it to draw in and retain more of those who currently didnt.
They wildly succeeded, at least for a time, but like all good things, it eventually came to an end.
Sorta.
Originally, they were seeking to make a better version of EQ, to attract all the disenchanted players from that. Literally, WoW was made to be the EQ Killer (The king at the time) they even hired people directly from EQ to target their game the best for this task. Which has brought up the endless cries that other games would be the WoW Killer.. you know.. that whole cycle thing that people think will happen.. which didn't happen.
But, ideally, and ironically, WoW was made to target the casuals of EQ. and it turned out, targeting that market, was a winning move.
But, as you so clearly pointed out, the larger they got, the more they became like "Let's just try to get more people!" which is why the WoW of today is nothing like the original WoW.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Don't care of about player time in grinding that rep (that took like 6 months).
Don't care about taking stats away from the mount ( what they had for years) and snow them -- that water strider is a 2 stat mount (water walking and fallen damage reducer), and Blizzard sheepishly wanted to "give" players back only water walking ... per toon.
The game ended really at 4.0.1. (Cata). It's been in a slow decline ever since.
Blizzard is like Google with the attention span of Google. They work on a new shiny then leave it to die and recycle it years later. Recycle because they just slap on a new name and icon and re-marketed as a "new feature" in another expansion. That's what they did with the WotLK talents and abilities. Re-release them in other expansions, some not even changing their previous names.
Don't care of about player time in grinding that rep (that took like 6 months).
Don't care about taking stats away from the mount ( what they had for years) and snow them -- that water strider is a 2 stat mount (water walking and fallen damage reducer), and Blizzard sheepishly wanted to "give" players back only water walking ... per toon.
The game ended really at 4.0.1. (Cata). It's been in a slow decline ever since.
Blizzard is like Google with the attention span of Google. They work on a new shiny then leave it to die and recycle it years later. Recycle because they just slap on a new name and icon and re-marketed as a "new feature" in another expansion. That's what they did with the WotLK talents and abilities. Re-release them in other expansions, some not even changing their previous names.
Dungeons and Dragons Online did something similar when they put out their first expansion, Menace of the Underdark, where they simply nerfed many existing abilities and gear effects, as well as changed abilities of classes.
And Keep in mind the gear they changed was raid gear, which was all BtC, it was that old school kind of stuff, named, exclusive to the raid, that had a 1% drop rate, and a raid that could only be done once every 3 days. Keep in mind they sold a raid-bypass in the store if you wanted to do raids more often on your character to farm the loot.. hint-hint.
They also changed core racial features to make them weaker, like a Warforged Immunity to poison, keep in mind, Warforged was a paid for race.
On top of this, respecting your character cost real money as well.
So they just toss this out and players now have to spend money to fix their characters.
When players got upset, they pretty much said, 'Deal with it or GTFO'
I left.. just not worth playing any game that is gonna diss me like that. If a company thinks they are too good to care about a players time and effort, it's time to move on.
Edit Added:
As irony would have it, Turbine later made it clear they were no longer going to make MMO's and scheduled all their MMO's (Ashrons Call, Ashrons Call 2, Dungeons and Dragons Online, and Lord of the Rings Online) to be closed down or sold off, along with all the developers that were working on these MMO's laid off.
Standing Stone, a studio made on the spot, by many of the Devs that were going to be fired with this change, bought DDO, and LOTRO, I hope those smug bastards learned a lesson in how to treat their players better, and if not.. they are more than welcome to fade off into obscurity.
AC and AC2, were shut down as no one wanted them.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I think Blizzard started WOW's design for people who play MMORPGs and kept changing it to draw in and retain more of those who currently didnt.
They wildly succeeded, at least for a time, but like all good things, it eventually came to an end.
What end ?
Dwindling player base, and the long slow slide into the darkness.
I am sure once they reach a point of subs they will expand F2P for whole game and be a cash shop game. Right now double dipping is probably way more than good.
I can't seen one indie company create one successful MMO yet...
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
The AAA companies you see "in beta" have been in development for a long ass time. When an indie company want's to make an MMO they first need to secure the funding and start as early as possible. Typically what an indie showcases to potential players at first is only a fraction of what a AAA (typically) showcases to potential players. What I'm saying is that you are probably comparing the development time from a AAA company and an indie company, but are also neglecting the fact that the first time you seen the indie game it was barely started compared to the state of AAA game the first time you saw it.
Expectation is that the indie game will be done in a year or two when in fact they're just getting started.
Err, the expectation the indies will be done in a "year or two" comes from the indie devs themselves, despite layman's attempts to state otherwise.
SC, CU, COE, CF and a host of others promised unreasonably short delivery dates of two years or less, no one forced them into said position.
Yeah, we know better, apparently experienced game developers don't?
Or maybe they just lied to get our money? Say it isn't so.
It's impossible to say for sure, though I know you create your own opinion and call it fact, but the reality is some may actually have that expectation, some do it to encourage financing.. after all whos going to pay money knowing their game isn't going to be released in 15 years? You think SC would have secured nearly as much funding had they been more forthcoming? Does that mean they're not making a game? Be realistic.
I think you managed to build 2 or maybe 3 strawmen against points I never made, well done.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can't seen one indie company create one successful MMO yet...
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
The AAA companies you see "in beta" have been in development for a long ass time. When an indie company want's to make an MMO they first need to secure the funding and start as early as possible. Typically what an indie showcases to potential players at first is only a fraction of what a AAA (typically) showcases to potential players. What I'm saying is that you are probably comparing the development time from a AAA company and an indie company, but are also neglecting the fact that the first time you seen the indie game it was barely started compared to the state of AAA game the first time you saw it.
Expectation is that the indie game will be done in a year or two when in fact they're just getting started.
Err, the expectation the indies will be done in a "year or two" comes from the indie devs themselves, despite layman's attempts to state otherwise.
SC, CU, COE, CF and a host of others promised unreasonably short delivery dates of two years or less, no one forced them into said position.
Yeah, we know better, apparently experienced game developers don't?
Or maybe they just lied to get our money? Say it isn't so.
It's impossible to say for sure, though I know you create your own opinion and call it fact, but the reality is some may actually have that expectation, some do it to encourage financing.. after all whos going to pay money knowing their game isn't going to be released in 15 years? You think SC would have secured nearly as much funding had they been more forthcoming? Does that mean they're not making a game? Be realistic.
I think you managed to build 2 or maybe 3 strawmen against points I never made, well done.
Mm nope. Don't think so. I can clarify if you have any questions though.
I can't seen one indie company create one successful MMO yet...
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
The AAA companies you see "in beta" have been in development for a long ass time. When an indie company want's to make an MMO they first need to secure the funding and start as early as possible. Typically what an indie showcases to potential players at first is only a fraction of what a AAA (typically) showcases to potential players. What I'm saying is that you are probably comparing the development time from a AAA company and an indie company, but are also neglecting the fact that the first time you seen the indie game it was barely started compared to the state of AAA game the first time you saw it.
Expectation is that the indie game will be done in a year or two when in fact they're just getting started.
Err, the expectation the indies will be done in a "year or two" comes from the indie devs themselves, despite layman's attempts to state otherwise.
SC, CU, COE, CF and a host of others promised unreasonably short delivery dates of two years or less, no one forced them into said position.
Yeah, we know better, apparently experienced game developers don't?
Or maybe they just lied to get our money? Say it isn't so.
It's impossible to say for sure, though I know you create your own opinion and call it fact, but the reality is some may actually have that expectation, some do it to encourage financing.. after all whos going to pay money knowing their game isn't going to be released in 15 years? You think SC would have secured nearly as much funding had they been more forthcoming? Does that mean they're not making a game? Be realistic.
I think you managed to build 2 or maybe 3 strawmen against points I never made, well done.
Mm nope. Don't think so. I can clarify if you have any questions though.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There are lots of indie companies MAKING MMO's, but they've been stuck in design limbo for years. Until I see some finished products I'm not announcing a changing of the guard.
Expectation is that the indie game will be done in a year or two when in fact they're just getting started.
SC, CU, COE, CF and a host of others promised unreasonably short delivery dates of two years or less, no one forced them into said position.
Yeah, we know better, apparently experienced game developers don't?
Or maybe they just lied to get our money? Say it isn't so.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally, they were seeking to make a better version of EQ, to attract all the disenchanted players from that. Literally, WoW was made to be the EQ Killer (The king at the time) they even hired people directly from EQ to target their game the best for this task. Which has brought up the endless cries that other games would be the WoW Killer.. you know.. that whole cycle thing that people think will happen.. which didn't happen.
But, ideally, and ironically, WoW was made to target the casuals of EQ. and it turned out, targeting that market, was a winning move.
But, as you so clearly pointed out, the larger they got, the more they became like "Let's just try to get more people!" which is why the WoW of today is nothing like the original WoW.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
And Keep in mind the gear they changed was raid gear, which was all BtC, it was that old school kind of stuff, named, exclusive to the raid, that had a 1% drop rate, and a raid that could only be done once every 3 days. Keep in mind they sold a raid-bypass in the store if you wanted to do raids more often on your character to farm the loot.. hint-hint.
They also changed core racial features to make them weaker, like a Warforged Immunity to poison, keep in mind, Warforged was a paid for race.
On top of this, respecting your character cost real money as well.
So they just toss this out and players now have to spend money to fix their characters.
When players got upset, they pretty much said, 'Deal with it or GTFO'
I left.. just not worth playing any game that is gonna diss me like that. If a company thinks they are too good to care about a players time and effort, it's time to move on.
Edit Added:
As irony would have it, Turbine later made it clear they were no longer going to make MMO's and scheduled all their MMO's (Ashrons Call, Ashrons Call 2, Dungeons and Dragons Online, and Lord of the Rings Online) to be closed down or sold off, along with all the developers that were working on these MMO's laid off.
Standing Stone, a studio made on the spot, by many of the Devs that were going to be fired with this change, bought DDO, and LOTRO, I hope those smug bastards learned a lesson in how to treat their players better, and if not.. they are more than welcome to fade off into obscurity.
AC and AC2, were shut down as no one wanted them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon