What's wrong with this dev team in a nutshell

Slapshot1188 · April 2019

This is wrong on sooo many levels. I will discuss after the Discord Quotes:

-----------------------------

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:14 AM

In all honesty, I had communicated to the outreach folks to post a reminder about Server Locking needing to be done by the cutoff date, and that we'd need to set the IP scale around that time so I'd have the interpolation steps correct. This resulted in a post which said we were going to lock IP, which was never the plan, nor what we have implemented. When I learned about the post, I asked them to take it down as it wasn't what we'd communicated to people in the past, and we don't have any system in place currently for "locking the IP." The simplest thing we could do is create a new table, take a snapshot of the influence, and then update our code to use the secondary table rather than the current numbers, but that comes at the cost of more dev work.

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:15 AM

In any case, I was hoping someone had a quote that said we were going to lock IP at some point so I'd know where people got the impression that was ever our plan. Perhaps then I'd be reminded of what I was thinking if I/we ever said that.

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:17 AM

If we've stated previously that we'd lock the IP, then there's a case to be made internally that we should push back the start of D&SS to lock the influence. If we never said that, then past experience with Surname Reservation and the fact that people can't see when OTHER people are picking, makes an influence race unlikely - or even unreasonable. So I'd be less interested in making code changes.

------------------------------

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with development of this game.

This discussion is only happening between the dev and a few people on Discord.
As seen in the first quote, he once again blames his team for a screw up. He told his outreach team to do something and they screwed it up...
He apparently does not have a thorough enough development plan documented as he is literally asking people in Discord to go look for quotes related to this feature they are implementing for the Domain and Settlement Selection event that is later this month.
Is so unsure of himself that he starts to immediately talk about delaying D&SS if someone can find this quote.

That is NOT how you successfully work... He should have a REASON for his decisions and those reasons should stand up to mild questioning. And he should have a documented development plan that he can reference. Everything this guy touches turns to drama and over-complication combined with blaming the team for anything that goes wrong and discussion with a handful of people on Discord. THAT is the development of CoE in a nutshell.

Torrsk · April 2019

You should have added that an forum post was made nearly a week back. With people naturally confused about what was going on. People finding quotes where Caspian couldn't really be any less clear about things and this is where these latest quotes come from. It would have made everything easier if he just entered into that thread to clear everything up. Not had two discussions going on at once.

To cap everything off. To where "anything said on discord can't be shared onto the forums" BS. This is just another case, in the long line of complete failure and break down of their communication.

Being under two weeks away from this event happening and everything being this messy. I'm just going to sit back and watch the drama. Nothing about this will end well.

Tiamat64 · April 2019

In the end, the greatest thing wrong with the dev team and the development of the game is that there isn't any.

AnOldFart · April 2019

Tbh from what I heard within my community was that this was something totally blown out of context by
1) an ambiguous post by serpentus (or whatever his name is)
2) people reading too much into this post and worrying too much about ip order.

In reality the only people that need to worry about ip are the Kings and dukes.
Counts and barons will be released in waves rather than individually just like surname reservation.

True Caspian panics alot but can you blame him when 70% of the time his ambiguous posts are taken the wrong way.

He just needs to be better organised before releasing info

Slapshot1188 · April 2019

AnOldFart said:

Tbh from what I heard within my community was that this was something totally blown out of context by
1) an ambiguous post by serpentus (or whatever his name is)
2) people reading too much into this post and worrying too much about ip order.

In reality the only people that need to worry about ip are the Kings and dukes.
Counts and barons will be released in waves rather than individually just like surname reservation.

True Caspian panics alot but can you blame him when 70% of the time his ambiguous posts are taken the wrong way.

He just needs to be better organised before releasing info

He needs to have firm reasons for his decisions and stand by them. The part where he is saying that if someone can show him a quote from years ago that he could go and change the event (and delay it) should be worrying to anyone.

AnOldFart · April 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

AnOldFart said:

Tbh from what I heard within my community was that this was something totally blown out of context by
1) an ambiguous post by serpentus (or whatever his name is)
2) people reading too much into this post and worrying too much about ip order.

In reality the only people that need to worry about ip are the Kings and dukes.
Counts and barons will be released in waves rather than individually just like surname reservation.

True Caspian panics alot but can you blame him when 70% of the time his ambiguous posts are taken the wrong way.

He just needs to be better organised before releasing info

He needs to have firm reasons for his decisions and stand by them. The part where he is saying that if someone can show him a quote from years ago that he could go and change the event (and delay it) should be worrying to anyone.

In fairness I had never heard that was going to happen so I can understand why he was asking for someone to prove what was being said.
And he is saying that he will then delay jot so that he could...

Slapshot1188 · April 2019

AnOldFart said:

Slapshot1188 said:

AnOldFart said:

Tbh from what I heard within my community was that this was something totally blown out of context by
1) an ambiguous post by serpentus (or whatever his name is)
2) people reading too much into this post and worrying too much about ip order.

In reality the only people that need to worry about ip are the Kings and dukes.
Counts and barons will be released in waves rather than individually just like surname reservation.

True Caspian panics alot but can you blame him when 70% of the time his ambiguous posts are taken the wrong way.

He just needs to be better organised before releasing info

He needs to have firm reasons for his decisions and stand by them. The part where he is saying that if someone can show him a quote from years ago that he could go and change the event (and delay it) should be worrying to anyone.

In fairness I had never heard that was going to happen so I can understand why he was asking for someone to prove what was being said.
And he is saying that he will then delay jot so that he could...

But again... if he feels THIS way is the correct way. It shouldn't matter. If a developer is going to delay and change from what he thinks is best because of a quote from a year back then he is simply doing it wrong.

Torrsk · April 2019

AnOldFart said:

Tbh from what I heard within my community was that this was something totally blown out of context by
1) an ambiguous post by serpentus (or whatever his name is)
2) people reading too much into this post and worrying too much about ip order.

In reality the only people that need to worry about ip are the Kings and dukes.
Counts and barons will be released in waves rather than individually just like surname reservation.

While I can agree people did blown this up. Speaking from my own view. I am still confused about the wording of it. I had thought, for years that IP would be locked in, so did most others I know. We all thought that's why the IP charts were removed. So you couldn't just up your IP at the last second and jump ahead of so many people. I have no idea, where I saw that info. Finding that would be impossible at this rate.

Seems Caspian could have come out ahead of this whole problem just simply saying "Ok I have heard many people are confused about IP getting locked, this isn't the case".. then explaining it all in detail. To where someone made a forum post, Serpentius replying in it, did little. Caspian talking about it only via discord. It's made what should have been a simple mistake/some people being confused, into just a giant mess. To where it's just going around in circles. Caspian asking for a quote.. just why? Even if it was that way once, who cares. Just explain the way it is now.

I could argue that IP is more important for counts/mayors. Simply cause they seem to be released in groups and have the same window time frame as kings/dukes. But even if counts/mayors have different windows. Knowing many people will completely miss their window, bad time etc. It's going to make some duchies messy as all hell.

In the end, this feels like all unnecessary drama that wasn't needed. This event has to go smoothly. If there is some bug/glitch in the middle. Plus if people are still confused. It be more than a popcorn moment, when people have dumped thousands into this, all miss their pick/can't pick/something else stops them. This going smoothly would also partly shut up people saying, everything stuffs up.

AnOldFart · April 2019

Torrsk said:

AnOldFart said:

Tbh from what I heard within my community was that this was something totally blown out of context by
1) an ambiguous post by serpentus (or whatever his name is)
2) people reading too much into this post and worrying too much about ip order.

In reality the only people that need to worry about ip are the Kings and dukes.
Counts and barons will be released in waves rather than individually just like surname reservation.

While I can agree people did blown this up. Speaking from my own view. I am still confused about the wording of it. I had thought, for years that IP would be locked in, so did most others I know. We all thought that's why the IP charts were removed. So you couldn't just up your IP at the last second and jump ahead of so many people. I have no idea, where I saw that info. Finding that would be impossible at this rate.

Seems Caspian could have come out ahead of this whole problem just simply saying "Ok I have heard many people are confused about IP getting locked, this isn't the case".. then explaining it all in detail. To where someone made a forum post, Serpentius replying in it, did little. Caspian talking about it only via discord. It's made what should have been a simple mistake/some people being confused, into just a giant mess. To where it's just going around in circles. Caspian asking for a quote.. just why? Even if it was that way once, who cares. Just explain the way it is now.

I could argue that IP is more important for counts/mayors. Simply cause they seem to be released in groups and have the same window time frame as kings/dukes. But even if counts/mayors have different windows. Knowing many people will completely miss their window, bad time etc. It's going to make some duchies messy as all hell.

In the end, this feels like all unnecessary drama that wasn't needed. This event has to go smoothly. If there is some bug/glitch in the middle. Plus if people are still confused. It be more than a popcorn moment, when people have dumped thousands into this, all miss their pick/can't pick/something else stops them. This going smoothly would also partly shut up people saying, everything stuffs up.

Doesn't have to go smoothly just bug free, imagine the drama if someone misses out on their beloved spot because of sleep. This would relate into the game with a potential vendetta against the mayor /count that took it off them.

I would love to see this game be a cluster fuck on release where every kingdom breaks down due to the a big influx of people who hate the p2noble

Nubz_Unite · April 2019

Slapshot I love your posts on CoE because they either provide great criticism or great comedy as you spin any statement to the worse possible scenario. In the quotes you lay out he states that DSS is following the same format as Surname Reservation, aka no IP lock. They are sticking to the plan. He's asking for quotes because he's confused as to whether or not he had said something that could have been interpreted as a deviation from said plan.

@Torrsk

Having IP charts become invisible is more of a reason that IP wouldn't be locked rather then locked. You can't have bidding wars and snipe peoples land if you don't know when they are picking. While you can still move your pick time it doesn't allow you to know where anyone else is and whether or not you have surpassed their IP.

Slapshot1188 · April 2019

Nubz_Unite said:

Slapshot I love your posts on CoE because they either provide great criticism or great comedy as you spin any statement to the worse possible scenario. In the quotes you lay out he states that DSS is following the same format as Surname Reservation, aka no IP lock. They are sticking to the plan. He's asking for quotes because he's confused as to whether or not he had said something that could have been interpreted as a deviation from said plan.

What he said was "If we've stated previously that we'd lock the IP, then there's a case to be made internally that we should push back the start of D&SS to lock the influence."

It's also the third time in a day that he mentioned possibly pushing back or delaying the already delayed D&SS. Here are the other 2:
------------------------------

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 12:41 AM

@Goat Lord Baldrin Hammerfist ? There's always a way to fix issues like this - at a price. I stop working on D&SS and go mucking around in the user accounts tables, user items table, user item transactions tables, and I transfer it back to him.... And then we postpone D&SS.

Caspian ☁Last Tuesday at 1:00 AM

@here Fair warning: Bot usage on the website has generally been discouraged, but not strictly enforced. Effective immediately, bot usage is strictly prohibited. If you're running a bot and we discover its usage, you risk having your account perma-banned. Why? Because having to investigate your usage of bots, which is causing performance problems on the website may very well push back D&SS while I pause the development work I was doing to investigate. If you're botting, you're costing me time, my team time, and now the community time. If I discover you running bots against the website during my investigations, I will ban you. I don't care who you are, your access level, or why you're running a bot. I'm done dealing with this stuff. You've been warned
---------------------------

I think he's just itching for an excuse to delay it even further.

AnOldFart · April 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

Nubz_Unite said:

Slapshot I love your posts on CoE because they either provide great criticism or great comedy as you spin any statement to the worse possible scenario. In the quotes you lay out he states that DSS is following the same format as Surname Reservation, aka no IP lock. They are sticking to the plan. He's asking for quotes because he's confused as to whether or not he had said something that could have been interpreted as a deviation from said plan.

What he said was "If we've stated previously that we'd lock the IP, then there's a case to be made internally that we should push back the start of D&SS to lock the influence."

It's also the third time in a day that he mentioned possibly pushing back or delaying the already delayed D&SS. Here are the other 2:
------------------------------
Caspian ☁Yesterday at 12:41 AM
@Goat Lord Baldrin Hammerfist ? There's always a way to fix issues like this - at a price. I stop working on D&SS and go mucking around in the user accounts tables, user items table, user item transactions tables, and I transfer it back to him.... And then we postpone D&SS.

Caspian ☁Last Tuesday at 1:00 AM
@here Fair warning: Bot usage on the website has generally been discouraged, but not strictly enforced. Effective immediately, bot usage is strictly prohibited. If you're running a bot and we discover its usage, you risk having your account perma-banned. Why? Because having to investigate your usage of bots, which is causing performance problems on the website may very well push back D&SS while I pause the development work I was doing to investigate. If you're botting, you're costing me time, my team time, and now the community time. If I discover you running bots against the website during my investigations, I will ban you. I don't care who you are, your access level, or why you're running a bot. I'm done dealing with this stuff. You've been warned
---------------------------

I think he's just itching for an excuse to delay it even further.

Actually that seems more to be him warning people that if they want things doing or cause things to be done that will cost the dev team time they run the risk of delaying ds&s

Wizardry · April 2019

All i want is good games to play but all i USUALLY see day to day is three things,NO GAME or advertising or really bad games.

Is it too much to ask to properly setup a SOUND business plan that will WORK and get a game FINISHED?

What are the odds we get ONE AAA MMO that is finished,NO CASH SHOP,no Early access,NO crowd funding,what are the odds.....less than 1% ?

Slapshot1188 · April 2019

AnOldFart said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Nubz_Unite said:

Slapshot I love your posts on CoE because they either provide great criticism or great comedy as you spin any statement to the worse possible scenario. In the quotes you lay out he states that DSS is following the same format as Surname Reservation, aka no IP lock. They are sticking to the plan. He's asking for quotes because he's confused as to whether or not he had said something that could have been interpreted as a deviation from said plan.

What he said was "If we've stated previously that we'd lock the IP, then there's a case to be made internally that we should push back the start of D&SS to lock the influence."

It's also the third time in a day that he mentioned possibly pushing back or delaying the already delayed D&SS. Here are the other 2:
------------------------------
Caspian ☁Yesterday at 12:41 AM
@Goat Lord Baldrin Hammerfist ? There's always a way to fix issues like this - at a price. I stop working on D&SS and go mucking around in the user accounts tables, user items table, user item transactions tables, and I transfer it back to him.... And then we postpone D&SS.

Caspian ☁Last Tuesday at 1:00 AM
@here Fair warning: Bot usage on the website has generally been discouraged, but not strictly enforced. Effective immediately, bot usage is strictly prohibited. If you're running a bot and we discover its usage, you risk having your account perma-banned. Why? Because having to investigate your usage of bots, which is causing performance problems on the website may very well push back D&SS while I pause the development work I was doing to investigate. If you're botting, you're costing me time, my team time, and now the community time. If I discover you running bots against the website during my investigations, I will ban you. I don't care who you are, your access level, or why you're running a bot. I'm done dealing with this stuff. You've been warned
---------------------------

I think he's just itching for an excuse to delay it even further.

Actually that seems more to be him warning people that if they want things doing or cause things to be done that will cost the dev team time they run the risk of delaying ds&s

Actually he has found out that it wasn’t bots causing a problem but his programming related to tokens and inventory system. I guess it’s like a self inflicted DDOS attack.

Much good. Very Wow!

Is “The Storm” here yet?

Kyleran · April 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

AnOldFart said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Nubz_Unite said:

Slapshot I love your posts on CoE because they either provide great criticism or great comedy as you spin any statement to the worse possible scenario. In the quotes you lay out he states that DSS is following the same format as Surname Reservation, aka no IP lock. They are sticking to the plan. He's asking for quotes because he's confused as to whether or not he had said something that could have been interpreted as a deviation from said plan.

What he said was "If we've stated previously that we'd lock the IP, then there's a case to be made internally that we should push back the start of D&SS to lock the influence."

It's also the third time in a day that he mentioned possibly pushing back or delaying the already delayed D&SS. Here are the other 2:
------------------------------
Caspian ☁Yesterday at 12:41 AM
@Goat Lord Baldrin Hammerfist ? There's always a way to fix issues like this - at a price. I stop working on D&SS and go mucking around in the user accounts tables, user items table, user item transactions tables, and I transfer it back to him.... And then we postpone D&SS.

Caspian ☁Last Tuesday at 1:00 AM
@here Fair warning: Bot usage on the website has generally been discouraged, but not strictly enforced. Effective immediately, bot usage is strictly prohibited. If you're running a bot and we discover its usage, you risk having your account perma-banned. Why? Because having to investigate your usage of bots, which is causing performance problems on the website may very well push back D&SS while I pause the development work I was doing to investigate. If you're botting, you're costing me time, my team time, and now the community time. If I discover you running bots against the website during my investigations, I will ban you. I don't care who you are, your access level, or why you're running a bot. I'm done dealing with this stuff. You've been warned
---------------------------

I think he's just itching for an excuse to delay it even further.

Actually that seems more to be him warning people that if they want things doing or cause things to be done that will cost the dev team time they run the risk of delaying ds&s

Actually he has found out that it wasn’t bots causing a problem but his programming related to tokens and inventory system. I guess it’s like a self inflicted DDOS attack.

Much good. Very Wow!

Is “The Storm” here yet?

Will let you know after the 29th.

Galadourn · April 2019

I'm curious to see how this adventure named "developing CoE" ends.... I'm all excited so far

Kyleran · April 2019

Galadourn said:

I'm curious to see how this adventure named "developing CoE" ends.... I'm all excited so far

Yeah, but unless they go broke first we might not see the end for many years to come.

CU, CF, SC and others just keep endlessly rolling on.....18 more months you know.

Ungood · April 2019

Caspian should hire some PR firm to deal with this shit.

Wizardry said:

All i want is good games to play but all i USUALLY see day to day is three things,NO GAME or advertising or really bad games.

Is it too much to ask to properly setup a SOUND business plan that will WORK and get a game FINISHED?

What are the odds we get ONE AAA MMO that is finished,NO CASH SHOP,no Early access,NO crowd funding,what are the odds.....less than 1% ?

Gonna give that a "Snowball's Chance in Hell"

kjellemann · April 2019

Just give up on these people already they are useless.
What us wrong with the development is.
1 They restarted\ made 4 diferent clients (that none have seen even if they promisd to let ppl get access).
2 They only take feedback from a very small pool of whales.
3 They have not shown any real progress and what is shown is a 3 second gif from in egine prototype.
4 They ban or mute anyone how ask critical questions.
5 Caspian and SbS in general is incapable of completeing one task before moving on to the next one,
6 They sold so much Pay 2 Win crap that the nobels will forever be safe, and if you think you can become king think again! You will need the vote of majorety of nobels to get in, you bet that is a tight nitt group at release.

I could go on.

Remember they startet PR 2015 went Kickstarter 6 May 2016, and before that the concept was in "development" from 2000. They are still in a Pre-Elyria state even though Alpha should have been out in 2017.

DONT TRUST Soulbound Studio (Failbound Studio is more apropriate)

Tiamat64 · April 2019

kjellemann said:

Just give up on these people already they are useless.
What us wrong with the development is.
1 They restarted\ made 4 diferent clients (that none have seen even if they promisd to let ppl get access).
2 They only take feedback from a very small pool of whales.
3 They have not shown any real progress and what is shown is a 3 second gif from in egine prototype.
4 They ban or mute anyone how ask critical questions.
5 Caspian and SbS in general is incapable of completeing one task before moving on to the next one,
6 They sold so much Pay 2 Win crap that the nobels will forever be safe, and if you think you can become king think again! You will need the vote of majorety of nobels to get in, you bet that is a tight nitt group at release.

I could go on.

Remember they startet PR 2015 went Kickstarter 6 May 2016, and before that the concept was in "development" from 2000. They are still in a Pre-Elyria state even though Alpha should have been out in 2017.

DONT TRUST Soulbound Studio (Failbound Studio is more apropriate)

1) There probably was never any clients in the first place and they just made that up to pretend there was actual development on the game.

2) They presumably have no use for feedback because they aren't developing anything with that feedback, because they aren't developing anything. They only "take" feedback from the whales because it encourages the whales to feel special and keep paying them, but there is nothing they actually are using that feedback on because there is... well, nothing.

3) There's nothing to show in the first place.

4) Because there's nothing, there's no answers to give to questions. So may as well ban the negative ones for PR's sake. It's not like they can take those critical questions and actually use them as constructive criticism to the development of the game when there is no development of the game.

6) Tight knit groups at release isn't a problem for a game that will never be released. But yea, if some bizarre offense to the very fabric of reality as we know it results in this game being released, it's going to be terrible and hamstrung by all these pre-sold things from the start.

Slapshot1188 · May 2019

Slapshot1188 said:

This is wrong on sooo many levels. I will discuss after the Discord Quotes:

-----------------------------
Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:14 AM
In all honesty, I had communicated to the outreach folks to post a reminder about Server Locking needing to be done by the cutoff date, and that we'd need to set the IP scale around that time so I'd have the interpolation steps correct. This resulted in a post which said we were going to lock IP, which was never the plan, nor what we have implemented. When I learned about the post, I asked them to take it down as it wasn't what we'd communicated to people in the past, and we don't have any system in place currently for "locking the IP." The simplest thing we could do is create a new table, take a snapshot of the influence, and then update our code to use the secondary table rather than the current numbers, but that comes at the cost of more dev work.

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:15 AM
In any case, I was hoping someone had a quote that said we were going to lock IP at some point so I'd know where people got the impression that was ever our plan. Perhaps then I'd be reminded of what I was thinking if I/we ever said that.

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:17 AM
If we've stated previously that we'd lock the IP, then there's a case to be made internally that we should push back the start of D&SS to lock the influence. If we never said that, then past experience with Surname Reservation and the fact that people can't see when OTHER people are picking, makes an influence race unlikely - or even unreasonable. So I'd be less interested in making code changes.

------------------------------

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with development of this game.

This discussion is only happening between the dev and a few people on Discord.
As seen in the first quote, he once again blames his team for a screw up. He told his outreach team to do something and they screwed it up...
He apparently does not have a thorough enough development plan documented as he is literally asking people in Discord to go look for quotes related to this feature they are implementing for the Domain and Settlement Selection event that is later this month.
Is so unsure of himself that he starts to immediately talk about delaying D&SS if someone can find this quote.

That is NOT how you successfully work... He should have a REASON for his decisions and those reasons should stand up to mild questioning. And he should have a documented development plan that he can reference. Everything this guy touches turns to drama and over-complication combined with blaming the team for anything that goes wrong and discussion with a handful of people on Discord. THAT is the development of CoE in a nutshell.

For those playing at home... they just now announced that they extended the server selection deadline (which was 37 days ago on April 22nd).

Since the launch of the event has been delayed, it made sense to us to extend the cutoff date for land title holders who have since chosen their primary server to participate during the event. To be clear we are extending the deadline to have selected your primary server to the day when we announce the new start date of Domain and Settlement Selection.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/31584/server-selection-deadline-extended#post350227

By the way, all you suckers who locked in a month or two ago are stuck. No changing

Sometimes you just cannot make this stuff up.

Mendel · May 2019

The more that this 'development' (I'm using that term very loosely) progresses, the more I'm beginning to think that the meat from this thread's titular 'nutshell' must have fed the population of a medium-sized nation for quite some time. Now, a delay is blamed on a previous delay. For someone who once espoused the incredible power of their Gantt charts, someone doesn't seem to understand the concept of 'predecessors'. Maybe if someone had gone with PERT charts instead. There were landmines in his critical path, I guess.

Kyleran · May 2019

Remember, this is the year of the storm, big things coming our way.

DerryFH · May 2019

Kyleran said:

Remember, this is the year of the storm, big things coming our way.

And we are not prepared!

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What's wrong with this dev team in a nutshell

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What's wrong with this dev team in a nutshell

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:14 AM

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:15 AM

Comments

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 12:41 AM

Caspian ☁Last Tuesday at 1:00 AM

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 12:41 AM

Caspian ☁Last Tuesday at 1:00 AM

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Caspian ☁Yesterday at 12:41 AM

Caspian ☁Last Tuesday at 1:00 AM

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:14 AM

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 3:15 AM

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV