TV over Video Games – The Entertainment Factor

SBFord · May 2019

TV over Video Games – The Entertainment Factor

Everyone is talking about the end of Game of Thrones today. Many websites, especially game websites are covering it as their top story, if not top five stories. This marks a shift in journalism which has been going on in a while. When pop culture news shifts away from games to entertainment, things can get different for hardcore audiences. Are we in a short phase of entertainment out performing games on the pop culture stage?

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WhiteLantern · May 2019

1."Are we in a short phase of entertainment out performing games on the pop culture stage?"
I didn't realize this was ever not the case.

2. Timothy Zahn revitalized the Star Wars universe in the early 90s. Others then helped flesh it out. Books kept the franchise alive, IMO. Most of the books released prior to the century change are worth a read, now-canon or not.

Aeander · May 2019

Not really. Game of Thrones is simply one of those rare and exceptional IP (like Star Wars or Marvel) which commands the public attention at its apex. It's a cultural phenomenon and more of an exception than a rule. I'd call it the Fortnite of television, but that wouldn't do it justice. Game of Thrones is actually incredible (or was until the idiot screenwriters ran out of book material).

(Also, fuck Dan and Dave for the way they bastardized the entire character of Jaime Lannister, one of the best fictional characters ever written, this season).

Palebane · May 2019

Cool thing used to be about both was you could enjoy them over and over; or several years down the road. With this new games as service model and digital distribution, games probably are losing out on the longevity battle in terms of value, imo. It’s bad because some of these games will go away forever, unlike a good movie.

Also unlike a good movie, games get patches. They change, for better or worse. Games are becoming less timeless imo. That might be a good angle for game producers as the trend has been to grab as much cash upfront as they can just in case the reviews are poor or the lights go out.

Ozmodan · May 2019

Funny thing, I did not like the game of thrones much at all. The first season was ok and it went downhill from there. Even the Wow movie was better. Much rather play a MMO than watch that show. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was imminently better, so were the Hobbit movies.

I really do not understand why people were so excited by it.

Aeander · May 2019

It's easier to talk about films and television from a cultural standpoint because they aren't interactive. The audience can predict things and make theories, but they ultimately have no control over the outcome. That uncertainty is precisely why such theorization becomes such a huge and passionate phenomenon.

The outcome of a game is, to some degree, up to the player. There isn't as much to be said for the intricasies of The Witcher 3 (to use gaming's best answer to Game of Thrones), because there are so many different ways to experience the game and so many different endings.

foppotee · May 2019

Well I'd place gaming under the overall umbrella of entertainment firstly. Within that umbrella category all types of entertainment have their time in the spotlight whether it be television, movies, gaming, underwater basket-weaving, etc.

blamo2000 · May 2019

I don't see much difference between most AAA games and TV shows. They play remarkably similar and consist of mainly sitting and watching with some intermittent button pushing.

Sovrath · May 2019

Ozmodan said:

Funny thing, I did not like the game of thrones much at all. The first season was ok and it went downhill from there. Even the Wow movie was better. Much rather play a MMO than watch that show. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was imminently better, so were the Hobbit movies.

I really do not understand why people were so excited by it.

oh my. I have my criticisms of the Game of Thrones Series and my positives for the World of Warcraft movie but, besides them being different things, in no way was the World of Warcraft movie better.

at least to anything that maps to my own personal taste.

Rosenborg · May 2019

Aeander said:

Not really. Game of Thrones is simply one of those rare and exceptional IP (like Star Wars or Marvel) which commands the public attention at its apex. It's a cultural phenomenon and more of an exception than a rule. I'd call it the Fortnite of television, but that wouldn't do it justice. Game of Thrones is actually incredible (or was until the idiot screenwriters ran out of book material).

(Also, fuck Dan and Dave for the way they bastardized the entire character of Jaime Lannister, one of the best fictional characters ever written, this season).

Yeah, we Star Wars fans are in dark times.

Aeander · May 2019

Rosenborg said:

Aeander said:

Not really. Game of Thrones is simply one of those rare and exceptional IP (like Star Wars or Marvel) which commands the public attention at its apex. It's a cultural phenomenon and more of an exception than a rule. I'd call it the Fortnite of television, but that wouldn't do it justice. Game of Thrones is actually incredible (or was until the idiot screenwriters ran out of book material).

(Also, fuck Dan and Dave for the way they bastardized the entire character of Jaime Lannister, one of the best fictional characters ever written, this season).

Yeah, we Star Wars fans are in dark times.

I can't see Dumb & Dumber hurting Star Wars any more than that hack Rian Johnson did. But... what these morons have done with some of the best possible source material... makes me fear I could be wrong.

alkarionlog · May 2019

serious I don't see much on game of thrones, its not like we never saw that happen in a rpg before, so kinda don't see much apeal

for cyberpunk, I bet it will be like deusx when launched, but bigger and giving more freedom

Aeander said:

Rosenborg said:

Aeander said:

Not really. Game of Thrones is simply one of those rare and exceptional IP (like Star Wars or Marvel) which commands the public attention at its apex. It's a cultural phenomenon and more of an exception than a rule. I'd call it the Fortnite of television, but that wouldn't do it justice. Game of Thrones is actually incredible (or was until the idiot screenwriters ran out of book material).

(Also, fuck Dan and Dave for the way they bastardized the entire character of Jaime Lannister, one of the best fictional characters ever written, this season).

Yeah, we Star Wars fans are in dark times.

I can't see Dumb & Dumber hurting Star Wars any more than that hack Rian Johnson did. But... what these morons have done with some of the best possible source material... makes me fear I could be wrong.

one thing I did learn over the years, never say things can't be worse and they can't do worse, its like you challenged the universe and behold they find a way to make it worse.

for star wars its funny, disney say the cannon is only what they put they little paws over, but is far easier to take the disney star wars if you consider they "cannon" as fanfic, and keep the extended universe as cannon, and the games who lucas arts did, so yeah disney sorry, but rogue one never did happen, that merc on the game made a better job then you, and mara jade would do a so much better female lead then this little girl you are pushing

MrMelGibson · May 2019

DMKano said:

Ozmodan said:

Funny thing, I did not like the game of thrones much at all. The first season was ok and it went downhill from there. Even the Wow movie was better. Much rather play a MMO than watch that show. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was imminently better, so were the Hobbit movies.

I really do not understand why people were so excited by it.

The first 4 seasons were pretty good.

Then it started to decline.

Season 7 was bad.

Season 8 was awful - the last 2 episodes were some of the worst dogshit written scripts I've seen since Dexter.

Such a good show became a complete farce due to sheer incompetence of writers that manages to destroy entire characters arcs and story in 2-3 episodes.

8 years wasted- just lol

There.. there.

Aeander · May 2019

DMKano said:

Ozmodan said:

Funny thing, I did not like the game of thrones much at all. The first season was ok and it went downhill from there. Even the Wow movie was better. Much rather play a MMO than watch that show. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was imminently better, so were the Hobbit movies.

I really do not understand why people were so excited by it.

The first 4 seasons were pretty good.

Then it started to decline.

Season 7 was bad.

Season 8 was awful - the last 2 episodes were some of the worst dogshit written scripts I've seen since Dexter.

Such a good show became a complete farce due to sheer incompetence of writers that manages to destroy entire characters arcs and story in 2-3 episodes.

8 years wasted- just lol

In my opinion, 8-6 was actually watchable. Perhaps it's just how bad 8-3 to 8-5 were, but I thought it was an acceptable ending for most of the characters involved. Not great, but acceptable.

My real problems are with 8-3 and 8-5.

8-3 was THE most disappointing episode of any television show ever made. The main conflict of the book was resolved anti-climatically and in a single episode. Any sense of mystery and worldbuilding in Game of Thrones was made irrelevant through the reduction of the Others to bogstandard and meaningless villains of the month. The great war never mattered and the Long Night became the Not-so Long Night. The Others deserved an entire season, not one flashy, but vapid display of incompetent military tactics and a baffling, unfounded subversion of expectations.

8-5 could have been incredible, but it was unearned. There is nothing wrong with the idea of a Mad Queen Dany face-heel turn. I'm all for it. But this really needed another entire season of character development, and foreshadowing is NOT character development. Foreshadowing shows that something is possible; it doesn't provide the means by which it becomes possible.

Kyleran · May 2019

Game of Thrones...never watched it, likely never will.

immoralthang · May 2019

I want this last season to inspire George to finish the last two books. That’s all I want from anything related to GoT/Song of Ice and Fire now.

As for D&D moving to Star Wars, they’ll fit right in since Rian Johnson used the same shallow excuse (subversion) to justify extremely poor character development as they did in season 8. My opinion doesn’t stem from bitterness, but one giant resounding “meh. Time to move on.” The finale was a huge improvement over episode 5. It felt like a definitive ending.

On a positive note, I can’t contain my excitement for Westworld season 3 and all of the amazing games on the horizon.

Aeander · May 2019

I should say that there is nothing wrong with subversion. Subversion can be done effectively, but it has to be earned. Subversion without subtle build up is only subversive because it makes no logical or narrative sense. A good subversion doesn't make the audience feel cheated. It makes them want to re-read the text and find all of the clues that lead to this twist. A good subversion doesn't just rob the audience of an expected resolution; it also supplies a new and more satisfying one.

For an example of effective subversion, I present the Mistborn Trilogy by Brandon Sanderson. Below in spoilers because the Mistborn novels really are incredible and I do not wish to spoil their main plot twist.

In the Mistborn Trilogy, the main character is the incredibly badass Mistborn woman named Vin. It is assumed that she is the Hero of Ages, and her character arc would support this. However, a secondary character, the eunuch named Sazed, undergoes an entire hero's journey that also fulfills the prophecy. He does this in the background, but the reader is shown the entire journey, which is more introspective than Vin's.

When it is revealed at the end of the third novel that Sazed is the Hero of Ages, it is a true subversion of expectations, but it is also completely earned. On a re-read of the novels, the build up is there, and a new appreciation for the novels is gained.

Compare that to say, Game of Thrones season 8, in which Arya subverts narrative expectations by defeating the Night King, despite having no connection to the Others in her story arc. Even if this makes logical sense, it does not make narrative sense and thus comes across as unearned.

Gutlard · May 2019

I was just actually thinking of all the ways a A Song of Ice and Fire would make a great MMORPG. The 7 kingdoms of Westeros could each have their own classes, starter zones, story arcs. Same with the other continents. The game could take place through the thousands of years of lore. If Bronn can rise as high, why couldn't anyone else... All the bastards and orphans and sell swords lend themselves to starting as a 'nobody' character. They could pull a LOTRO and have our characters be background/side characters that help/hinder the book lore.

I'm sure all of these is complete new territory for everyone never thought of or talked about here before ha....sorry.

Gut Out!

bonzoso21 · May 2019

I'm not sure about the takes in this article. Do people actually refer to TV shows as "entertainment" and not consider videogames to be entertainment? Has anyone who doesn't work in a game industry environment ever actually seen videogames take up more watercooler talk than TV, films, or even sports? For that matter, does the average gamer not also have other pop culture hobbies? I think I've only known one person in my entire life who was like "I don't watch TV or movies, I spend ALL of my free time gaming" , and as much as I love games, that guy was really difficult to have a conversation with.

gervaise1 · May 2019

Ozmodan said:

Funny thing, I did not like the game of thrones much at all. The first season was ok and it went downhill from there. Even the Wow movie was better. Much rather play a MMO than watch that show. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was imminently better, so were the Hobbit movies.

I really do not understand why people were so excited by it.

I think some will disagree with you about how good GoT was but you might want to consider that:

- the WoW movie, the Lord of the Rings trilogy and the Hobbit moves were ....... movies.
- GoT is a TV show.

That whilst GoT was expensive - by TV show stands - the WoW, LotR and Hobbit movies had HUGE budgets and arguably expensive by movie stands.

GoT, mostly, produced a series each year; the movies took years.

GoT had lots of extras etc. - by TV show standards - but not by movie standards.

Its almost like saying an old black & white TV is not as good as a modern 4k UHD OLED.

And that is a key reason - whether or not you like the story - GoT is "special".

Edit: and if you like it its doubly special of course.

Rosenborg · May 2019

gervaise1 said:

Ozmodan said:

Funny thing, I did not like the game of thrones much at all. The first season was ok and it went downhill from there. Even the Wow movie was better. Much rather play a MMO than watch that show. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was imminently better, so were the Hobbit movies.

I really do not understand why people were so excited by it.

I think some will disagree with you about how good GoT was but you might want to consider that:

- the WoW movie, the Lord of the Rings trilogy and the Hobbit moves were ....... movies.
- GoT is a TV show.

That whilst GoT was expensive - by TV show stands - the WoW, LotR and Hobbit movies had HUGE budgets and arguably expensive by movie stands.

GoT, mostly, produced a series each year; the movies took years.

GoT had lots of extras etc. - by TV show standards - but not by movie standards.

Its almost like saying an old black & white TV is not as good as a modern 4k UHD OLED.

And that is a key reason - whether or not you like the story - GoT is "special".

Edit: and if you like it its doubly special of course.

Actually The Hobbit didn't have years of (pre-)production under it, shame really. Complicated project.

Aeander · May 2019

Ozmodan said:

Funny thing, I did not like the game of thrones much at all. The first season was ok and it went downhill from there. Even the Wow movie was better. Much rather play a MMO than watch that show. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was imminently better, so were the Hobbit movies.

I really do not understand why people were so excited by it.

I liked the Warcraft movie as beautiful, but vapid fantasy schlok, but it needed better acting and another hour of runtime to be anything special.

mmrv · May 2019

Say what? lol. Get real Tv shows have always trumped video games in pop culture. I do see a day soon it might be the reverse. Its all about accessibility and size of audience which historically favored TV ie more people watched tv and had access to a tv so TV shows were talked about much more. Video games have caught up alot of ground but are still not there yet, and we won;t even get into the division due to platforms.

Mendel · May 2019

I've only seen seasons 1-4. (Waiting for HBO to put a video on sale is the epic wait of the later half of my life).

What I hear about season 8 reminds me of how Babylon 5 played out. B5 had all sorts of production uncertainty, which showed up in the scripts. An epic length story was eventually rushed, and the quality fell dramatically.

I'll probably eventually purchase and watch all of GoT, if I actually live that long.

Asheram · May 2019

Drogon so dumb he burned sword chair thinking it stabbed Dany.

I had GoT seasons1-5 box set< I sold it after the crapfest season 8 was.

Aeander · May 2019

Asheram said:

Drogon so dumb he burned sword chair thinking it stabbed Dany.
I had GoT seasons1-5 box set< I sold it after the crapfest season 8 was.

I took it as Drogon being intelligent enough to understand that his mother died for that chair and everything it represents.

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TV over Video Games – The Entertainment Factor

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV