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MMORPG.com : General : The Jimquisition Examines 'the Addictive Cost of Predatory Monetization'

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Comments

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited July 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy...
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make and attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.

    Gotta wonder sometimes how many hay bales some people go through around here.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    Kyleran
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited July 2019
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
    KyleranGdemamiTacticalZombehPhaserlight[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    Scot said:
    Insightful, about how addiction is used in stages gaming companies have called 'hook, habit, hobby' to draw people in.

    But could we not have this as something to read, even in this era of easy mode we can still read. :)
    I think it's just a modern variant of the age old expression, "hook, line and sinker."

    I too prefer to read, only watched this cause I had 30 minutes to kill during my lunch walk.


    bcbully

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    SovrathPhaserlightbcbully
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    Good for you that you manged to work your way out of it. But you do know you're the exception and not the rule, right?

    But putting an addiction behind you is also sort or besides the point. What Jim is talking about is the fact that there are people in gaming companies actively encouraging addictive behaviour that will work most effectively (surprise!) on people susceptible to non substance addiction.

    We shouldn't tolerate that shit any more than we tolerate non regulated cigarette advertisement.
    SBFordKyleranGdemami[Deleted User]BaalzharonkitaradTacticalZombehPhaserlight[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited July 2019
    LOL,i like the opening of the video asking the scummy developer if what they are doing is ethical,of course all crooks and criminals would just turn themselves in.

    Did you steal my ice cream....ummm no,well your hands are all covered in melted ice cream?Well i got that when i fell at the playground,fell into a little kid who was holding an ice cream and when we fell i fell on the kids ice cream.Hmmm sounds legit,of course you did that exactly the same time my ice cream went missing !!.

    Devs/publishers not only try to prey on addicts,exploit the easy target,they also try to circumvent the law with tactical ways to present their ideas.

    They try to claim their rng sales are not a form of gambling...lol of course not,when i buy a bag of chips,i don't expect any chips to be in the bag,i expect that 85% of the time,the bag will be empty.

    All of it is one big joke to me and hilarious that the law is not clamping down on the gaming industry.I love how the gaming industry loves to take away our rights because they need THEIR copyrights  to be protected.Yes of course,when i buy something  in life,i never expect top own it,i only license it,so where do you want me to deliver my car,i am done licensing the use of it,where would you like my TV,my computer,i mean they are all copyrighted items right?

    When you purchase cards from Blizzard's Hearthstone TCG,you NEVER own a single card,hmmmm i thought when i made a purchase i was getting something...yeah a license to use,well i don't remember buying just a license.The checkout at their store CLEARLY stated i was purchasing a pack of cards and not a license.When you buy a single player game,you can play it FOREVER,you buy an mmo you can only play it as long as the dev says you can play it...lmao.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    edited July 2019
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    While I salute your recovery you have a surprising lack of empathy for others in a similar plight.

    My guess is you don't spend a lot of time in the rooms.

    My daughter "died" twice during a 10 year period of drug addiction but with almost 7 years clean I thank God regularly for bringing her back.

    Unfortunately I have known many who didn't recover and my heart goes out to they and their families. 

    But this is only gambling you say....my brother in law almost wrecked his marriage betting the dogs until he found a way clean, an office mate is divorcing her husband of 35 yrs over a new found gambling addiction (after the SEC pulled his securities license for fraud) and a nephew who scored 800 on his math SAT quit college and is a 34 year old pharmacy tech...because he fancies himself as some sort of blackjack master.

    You won't be seeing him on ESPN 2 any time soon.

    ;)








    TacticalZombehPhaserlight[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    Good for you that you manged to work your way out of it. But you do know you're the exception and not the rule, right?

    But putting an addiction behind you is also sort or besides the point. What Jim is talking about is the fact that there are people in gaming companies actively encouraging addictive behaviour that will work most effectively (surprise!) on people susceptible to non substance addiction.

    We shouldn't tolerate that shit any more than we tolerate non regulated cigarette advertisement.
    Sorry , again , people need to more responsible , if they stop buying they stop marketing , very simple ..

       people are weak , and are preyed upon this way from many directions not just games , they just need to recognize the problem and handle it , most  Everyone know when its in front of them , and most all know they are doing wrong , then make bad choices , regardless of the source , if its drugs, food ,games, sex ,cars ,women etc... Everyone recognizes there problem , and many make bad choices .. They lack the strength to make the right choice ..

      And yes , im not the norm , most of the 25 i buried are ODs , 3 murdered , 4 suicides , several accidental due to drugs/alcohol , but even some of those friends i told them they need to be stronger , i offered help ... I understand addiction better than most , and it can be beat .. You just need to recognize and want better ..
  • MyriaMyria Member UncommonPosts: 699
    After spending decades trying to convince politicians and the general public that video games don't cause violence because gamers aren't a bunch of mindless zombies beholden to images on a screen, crying to politicians for protection from 'predatory' loot box practices because gamers are mindless zombies beholden to images on a screen might not be the best of tactics.

    And yes, yes, it's only 'some' gamers, but then that's an argument that cuts any number of uncomfortable ways.

    It'd be nice if for once people considered the inevitable unintended consequences.
    bcbully
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    While I salute your recovery you have a surprising lack of empathy for others in a similar plight.

    My guess is you don't spend a lot of time in the rooms.



    Your right , and i spent no time in rooms..

      I did say at the start I have no Sympathy , mostly because i understand it , i lived it ..

     

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    Good for you that you manged to work your way out of it. But you do know you're the exception and not the rule, right?

    But putting an addiction behind you is also sort or besides the point. What Jim is talking about is the fact that there are people in gaming companies actively encouraging addictive behaviour that will work most effectively (surprise!) on people susceptible to non substance addiction.

    We shouldn't tolerate that shit any more than we tolerate non regulated cigarette advertisement.
    Sorry , again , people need to more responsible , if they stop buying they stop marketing , very simple ..

       people are weak , and are preyed upon this way from many directions not just games , they just need to recognize the problem and handle it , most  Everyone know when its in front of them , and most all know they are doing wrong , then make bad choices , regardless of the source , if its drugs, food ,games, sex ,cars ,women etc... Everyone recognizes there problem , and many make bad choices .. They lack the strength to make the right choice ..

      And yes , im not the norm , most of the 25 i buried are ODs , 3 murdered , 4 suicides , several accidental due to drugs/alcohol , but even some of those friends i told them they need to be stronger , i offered help ... I understand addiction better than most , and it can be beat .. You just need to recognize and want better ..
    OK let's go with "people are weak." Does that make it OK to increase your profits by counting on that weakness and leveraging your product to capitalize on it? IDK about you but for me, if anything the fact that people are weak makes preying on that weakness that much worse.
    SBFord[Deleted User]BaalzharonGdemamiRexKushmanTacticalZombehPhaserlightKyleran[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    It's kind of funny because the US Gov't preys on the weakness of stupid people all the time. 

    it's called State/US lottery system which nets more than gaming does and casinos. Then the politicians sit there and act almighty about lootboxes, but the casinos and lotteries are not a problem. 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    Good for you that you manged to work your way out of it. But you do know you're the exception and not the rule, right?

    But putting an addiction behind you is also sort or besides the point. What Jim is talking about is the fact that there are people in gaming companies actively encouraging addictive behaviour that will work most effectively (surprise!) on people susceptible to non substance addiction.

    We shouldn't tolerate that shit any more than we tolerate non regulated cigarette advertisement.
    Sorry , again , people need to more responsible , if they stop buying they stop marketing , very simple ..

       people are weak , and are preyed upon this way from many directions not just games , they just need to recognize the problem and handle it , most  Everyone know when its in front of them , and most all know they are doing wrong , then make bad choices , regardless of the source , if its drugs, food ,games, sex ,cars ,women etc... Everyone recognizes there problem , and many make bad choices .. They lack the strength to make the right choice ..

      And yes , im not the norm , most of the 25 i buried are ODs , 3 murdered , 4 suicides , several accidental due to drugs/alcohol , but even some of those friends i told them they need to be stronger , i offered help ... I understand addiction better than most , and it can be beat .. You just need to recognize and want better ..
    OK let's go with "people are weak." Does that make it OK to increase your profits by counting on that weakness and leveraging your product to capitalize on it? IDK about you but for me, if anything the fact that people are weak makes preying on that weakness that much worse.
    Reality is , its the way its always been since the dawn of man , and way it will always be ....People just need to recognize .. Even the nicest , kindest ,most empathetic orgs  are preying on peoples weakness...

    Churches do it , i Dont see an uproar of there practices here

      Red Cross does it , i see no uproar

         SPCA does it .. annnd nothing

       And all are involved in various scandals , and are preying on peoples wallets by guilt , by hook or by habit .. pick your poison , its all around and not going away ...People need to need to be more disciplined with there money ... Simple as that
    GdemamiIselin[Deleted User]BaalzharonSpottyGekko[Deleted User]
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited July 2019
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    Good for you that you manged to work your way out of it. But you do know you're the exception and not the rule, right?

    But putting an addiction behind you is also sort or besides the point. What Jim is talking about is the fact that there are people in gaming companies actively encouraging addictive behaviour that will work most effectively (surprise!) on people susceptible to non substance addiction.

    We shouldn't tolerate that shit any more than we tolerate non regulated cigarette advertisement.
    Sorry , again , people need to more responsible , if they stop buying they stop marketing , very simple ..

       people are weak , and are preyed upon this way from many directions not just games , they just need to recognize the problem and handle it , most  Everyone know when its in front of them , and most all know they are doing wrong , then make bad choices , regardless of the source , if its drugs, food ,games, sex ,cars ,women etc... Everyone recognizes there problem , and many make bad choices .. They lack the strength to make the right choice ..

      And yes , im not the norm , most of the 25 i buried are ODs , 3 murdered , 4 suicides , several accidental due to drugs/alcohol , but even some of those friends i told them they need to be stronger , i offered help ... I understand addiction better than most , and it can be beat .. You just need to recognize and want better ..
    OK let's go with "people are weak." Does that make it OK to increase your profits by counting on that weakness and leveraging your product to capitalize on it? IDK about you but for me, if anything the fact that people are weak makes preying on that weakness that much worse.
    Reality is , its the way its always been since the dawn of man , and way it will always be ....People just need to recognize .. Even the nicest , kindest ,most empathetic orgs  are preying on peoples weakness...

    Churches do it , i Dont see an uproar of there practices here

      Red Cross does it , i see no uproar

         SPCA does it .. annnd nothing

       And all are involved in various scandals , and are preying on peoples wallets by guilt , by hook or by habit .. pick your poison , its all around and not going away ...People need to need to be more disciplined with there money ... Simple as that

    And do any of these issues mentioned have a single fuck all to do with gaming Nope just another empty straw man. The issue at hand is that loot boxes and other predatory monitization schemes are gambling and as such should be regulated like gambling.

    Oh and by the way, there are people who do care about all the aforementioned issues and are doing something about them, but since that all falls under political shit its verboten to discuss here.








    you obviously miss the point entirely , its ok tho the community is becoming accustomed to that

    Ill , go slow and keep it simple , all those things prey on peoples weaknesses same as gambling .... There is 0 difference..

     you should of read the entire thread instead of a knee jerk reaction to a single post ,, The picture is bigger than that ... Maybe to big for some

     And ill add we are allowed to discuss any of those topics in the Off Topic Discussion .. But like i said noone does here , And if you comprehended my post i said No Uproar Here over those subjects , i was not commenting on the entire world .. lmfao ..

       Never let your perceived truth get in the way of the facts

    Gdemami
  • BladeburaibaBladeburaiba Member UncommonPosts: 134
    Kyleran said:

    *Snip*

    I noticed that in both of your stories, the seminal moment is when the addicted decided that they didn't want it anymore.

    At the end of the day, you can't protect anyone from themselves.  Nothing the laws does, nothing anyone does helps an addicted person until they decide to quit, and then they can be helped.  If you have ever tried to help an addicted person, you know this.

    So to blame the developers, calling into question their ethics, passing laws, etc will have as much affect as the war on drugs:  total and utter loss.

    Although it is the much harder path, the only way to make a real difference is to convince people they have agency in their lives, instead of convincing them that they have an incurable disease where it is not their fault.
    GdemamiScorchiencheeba
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
     
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
                    There is nothing new here , people are weak , they need to learn to be more responsible , and like i said if people are more responsible the problem takes care of itself ..

      If you recall any of my history and it is documented on this site ..

     I know far more about addiction than most ..  I had a very bad drug and Alcohol problem , that lead to me burying 25 friends to date growing up in the Badlands of Philly , i spent 18 months in Fed Prison ..

       I almost died from my habits ... But then i decided i would not be next , and have been clean for 27 years , Ironically the way i occupied my time was finding PC games , which kept me off the streets , and inspired to me to Invest in the Industry very early , which has landed me happily retired at 53 , with 2 kids graduated from OSU ,a beautiful wife and 8 year old son , 2 great homes ..

        It really turned to me focusing my addiction in a positive way by bettering myself ..

         All it took was strength, will, and desire for something better ..

      people need to stop being weak and not let outside forces control them  , and honestly gaming addiction is nothing compared to heroin/meth etc ..

    Good for you that you manged to work your way out of it. But you do know you're the exception and not the rule, right?

    But putting an addiction behind you is also sort or besides the point. What Jim is talking about is the fact that there are people in gaming companies actively encouraging addictive behaviour that will work most effectively (surprise!) on people susceptible to non substance addiction.

    We shouldn't tolerate that shit any more than we tolerate non regulated cigarette advertisement.
    Sorry , again , people need to more responsible , if they stop buying they stop marketing , very simple ..

       people are weak , and are preyed upon this way from many directions not just games , they just need to recognize the problem and handle it , most  Everyone know when its in front of them , and most all know they are doing wrong , then make bad choices , regardless of the source , if its drugs, food ,games, sex ,cars ,women etc... Everyone recognizes there problem , and many make bad choices .. They lack the strength to make the right choice ..

      And yes , im not the norm , most of the 25 i buried are ODs , 3 murdered , 4 suicides , several accidental due to drugs/alcohol , but even some of those friends i told them they need to be stronger , i offered help ... I understand addiction better than most , and it can be beat .. You just need to recognize and want better ..
    OK let's go with "people are weak." Does that make it OK to increase your profits by counting on that weakness and leveraging your product to capitalize on it? IDK about you but for me, if anything the fact that people are weak makes preying on that weakness that much worse.
    Reality is , its the way its always been since the dawn of man , and way it will always be ....People just need to recognize .. Even the nicest , kindest ,most empathetic orgs  are preying on peoples weakness...

    Churches do it , i Dont see an uproar of there practices here

      Red Cross does it , i see no uproar

         SPCA does it .. annnd nothing

       And all are involved in various scandals , and are preying on peoples wallets by guilt , by hook or by habit .. pick your poison , its all around and not going away ...People need to need to be more disciplined with there money ... Simple as that
    Everyone is a scammer. Everyone has always been a scammer. Therefore being a scammer is AOK and there's nothing to be done about it.

    I have to admit, if everyone thought that way we could save billions on law enforcement. Write your congressman quick! :)


    Gdemami
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    What's more morally bankrupt than the corporations using predatory gambling mechanics in video games? The people defending them.

    Not hard to tell who has stock in Electronic Arts.
    Baalzharon[Deleted User]

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    I'm just stuck here wondering how was that not supposed to be a straw man when it establishes an external example and condition to try and take down? Also a bit of a hiccup in the kicking the habit logic Scor used...

    Twenty-five points of evidence that, without direct intervention of a higher power, people could suffer form a form of weakness and exploitation of said weakness enough so that they would die.

    One point of evidence as an exception for an individual bucking the habit.

    And we are supposed to take that as example that people can and should just solve all things by themselves or something?

    Kind of the thing Blade fails to acknowledge. Yes, for someone to change, they need to want to change. That doesn't happen without that person being in a situation where they are able to help themselves. Most of the time they are not, and they need external help to make it happen.

    Seems it's rather showing exactly why regulations on things like drugs and gambling are proposed/made.
    GdemamiPhaserlightKyleran[Deleted User]
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,582
    edited July 2019
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
    Addiction exists. That the personal issues addiction bring about must somehow be addressed by society at large is the questionable issue. It is questionable because protecting people from issues related to their addictions isn't something the government normally does, at least North American government.

    Alcohol addiction hasn't hampered the sale of alcohol. Nicotine addiction hasn't prompted a ban on tobacco. Gambling addiction hasn't closed down lotteries and casinos. Addiction to what is legal does not traditionally lead to responding regulation of what is legal.
    Iselin
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited July 2019
    All three of those things, while not banned, do at least have regulations in place to try and help mitigate rampancy of issues.

    That's kind of the issue of things like loot boxes, they currently sit in a legal hole where even the barest of regulations we apply to those others things, presently do not apply to them.
    Phaserlight
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited July 2019
    Limnic said:
    All three of those things, while not banned, do at least have regulations in place to try and help mitigate rampancy of issues.
    ..no, they don't.

    You can intoxicate yourself with alcohol to death.
    You can gamble every last bit of your possesion.
    You can fill your lungs with tar as much as you want.

    No law is stopping you to do any of that. You can be addicted to pretty much any habit or substance and nothing is stopping you from harmful impact of your addiction.

    So again, what is so special about loot boxes compared to ie. food addiction?
    IselinBaalzharon
  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 287
    Gdemami said:
    Limnic said:
    All three of those things, while not banned, do at least have regulations in place to try and help mitigate rampancy of issues.
    ..no, they don't.

    You can intoxicate yourself with alcohol to death.
    You can gamble every last bit of your possesion.
    You can fill your lungs with tar as much as you want.

    No law is stopping you to do any of that. You can be addicted to pretty much any habit or substance and nothing is stopping you from harmful impact of your addiction.

    So again, what is so special about loot boxes compared to ie. food addiction?
    All of those things are at least age restricted and kids are (usually) not given easy access to them. Parents are aware the dangers and so don't take their to the pub or casino every night, and keeps cigs out of reach. Parents are oblivious to loot boxes and so do nothing to protect their kids from them.
    LimnicScot[Deleted User]
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    Limnic said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scorchien said:
     Sorry i have no sympathy for this , These Lootboxes are targeting the low hanging fruit or Kids whose parents are stupid enough to set up there kids in games they most likely should not be playing and with a CC set up ..
     
      Both are just stupid, begging to separated from there money , people need to be more responsible and disciplined with there money .. If people were the problem would solve itself
    Yeah, someone didn't watch the video.
    Well it's a lot easier to make an attack a straw man than it is to address the actual topic.
     It does address the topic , and people need to be more responsible .. Simple as that ..
    You don't believe addiction exists? The whole point is that addicts don't have the same capability to "be more responsible" about their addiction like us non-addicts.

    If you're not an addict just be glad but they do exist you know.
    Addiction exists. That the personal issues addiction bring about must somehow be addressed by society at large is the questionable issue. It is questionable because protecting people from issues related to their addictions isn't something the government normally does, at least North American government.

    Alcohol addiction hasn't hampered the sale of alcohol. Nicotine addiction hasn't prompted a ban on tobacco. Gambling addiction hasn't closed down lotteries and casinos. Addiction to what is legal does not traditionally lead to responding regulation of what is legal.
    Not only are there federal and state regulations and restrictions for all of those things but their advertising is also, perhaps even more strictly, regulated.

    If you actually watched the video you would have seen a guy talking about how to manipulate players to make them want to buy what you're selling in the cash shop or in loot boxes using very similar techniques to what ad agencies use to sell any product.

    Except they're aiming it at a captive audience and are manipulating game play and reward mechanics to do the sales pitch for them. All of that without needing to abide by any bothersome regulations unlike all those other addictive things you're comparing this to. Good job on highlighting the problem with your examples lol.

    Besides they could have gone on about their business raking in the billions from whale/addicts if they weren't a bunch of self destructive greedy buggers that couldn't help but keep on pushing the envelope to the point that even the non-gaming legislators took notice... oops.
    ScotLimnicPhryNildenTacticalZombehGdemami[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited July 2019
    Gdemami said:
    Limnic said:
    All three of those things, while not banned, do at least have regulations in place to try and help mitigate rampancy of issues.
    ..no, they don't.
    Yes they do, they are all at least age-restricted, with additional restrictions depending on state. When it comes to other nations, some have even more rigorous restrictions regarding gambling (while things like alcohol is often more lenient).

    The least you could do is a cursory google of law relating to this stuff before trying to argue something you know squat about.
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