Old School MMORPG's are still the most popular. WOW - Millions of players Final Fantasy XIV - Millions of players
Both of the number one MMO's are old school tab targeting sword and board with holy trinity.
They are not old school, they are pretty much themepark, linear quest-driven MMOs. Both WoW and FFXIV have been declining in popularity, to the point that neither of them appear in the top 10 games by online revenue in recent months, as of may.
It just shows the average joe gamer is leaving MMOs and joining other games that provide a more intant sense of gratification. They lack the long term goal, social mindset needed for old school MMOs, and they will not come back.
Surprisingly, Fantasy Westward Journey Online 2 is the only MMO in the PC list, a very casual themepark MMO that is super popular in China.
Old school kind of imply things which are no longer popular. Wow, FFXIV are still kind of popular...
There have been many low budget, unpolished mmorpg released over the years. People don't play them... If it have been more popular, we might see larger budget old school MMO.
Old school kind of imply things which are no longer popular. Wow, FFXIV are still kind of popular...
There have been many low budget, unpolished mmorpg released over the years. People don't play them... If it have been more popular, we might see larger budget old school MMO.
But there is no new MMOs from big companies though
Old school kind of imply things which are no longer popular. Wow, FFXIV are still kind of popular...
There have been many low budget, unpolished mmorpg released over the years. People don't play them... If it have been more popular, we might see larger budget old school MMO.
But there is no new MMOs from big companies though
Don't think it matters. There are already enough generic themepark mmo out there. No point making another one.
Not to mention even if they make one, people just complain how crappy they are like new world, or how pay to win they are like archeage.
Maybe because no one today is making a new old school mmo ?
Irrelevant, this has nothing to do with the style of game, talking about literal old school MMOs late 90's early 2000's. The most beloved old school MMORPGs still exist in one form or another.
If the population of DAoC suddenly increased to 10,000+ active players, I would still play it. Same goes for or SWG (original version) if they brought it back.
Warum sind die alten Spiele noch so aktiv mit so vielen Spielern? na weil man da noch an seinem Charakter arbeitet muss um sie zu verbessern usw. Bei den neuen Spielen, war es nicht schlecht, wenn Sie sich nicht mehr bewegen: D Aber mal ernsthaft in den neuen Spielen ist man spätestens nach 3-5 Monaten doch max. Level und dann ... neues Spiel, weil es zu langweilig ist und den gleichen Müll dann wieder und wieder zu machen, weil die heutigen Spieler keine Geduld und Ausdauer haben (na ich gehöre nicht zu der Fraktion die "erster Ruft") und nach schnellem Level schreien (wie neu Spieler mit Level 3 nach einer Gilde / Clan rufen und noch gar nicht wissen ob das Spiel überhaupt was für sie ist). In neuen Spielen hat man schnell Langeweile und deshalb gehen die meisten zu den alten Titeln wo man länger drin ist, kann man sich mit Freunden und lieben gewonnenen Feinden aufhalten. Auch in den neueren Spielen wird so gut wie nichts für den Gilden / Clan getan, ich hoffe, dass das in der Zukunft geändert wird, schnell kann ihr Bett sein Ich spiele MMORPGs mit Freunden oder gleich gesinnten Zielen und Erfolgen ansonsten könnte ich auch Brettspiele spielen;)
I believe that many think that old school MMORPGs were better because it was our first love when it comes to these types of games. We have so many good memories. When I tried to come back to DAOC and other games that I have considered the best games it is not the same. Even when I tried it just 6 months after I quit the first time. Why? Well, we tend to remember the good things about the game and forget the bad such as balance-issues, buff-bots and so on. But what I missed the most when I came back to these favourite games were the community. Back in the days you knew who was the best on the server, you knew who you hated, who was the best leader, who was the best crafter etc. When you came back most oldies have quit playing so even if the game was still fun it was not the same.
New games want to give us the luxuary in all areas so they make big servers or cluster together servers so that we can get pvp and pve when we want without having to wait. That way you play with different people all the time, you have no clue who is the best in any area and people often tend to act like idiots because they know they don't have to think about what people think about them. All people should be able to craft the best stuff easily, all people should be able to get the best gear easily.
In old games if an idiot was an idiot all on the server knew about it and it got consequences. When I went back to WOW a couple of years ago I was almost shocked how people behaved in instances. They wanted to kick some player because he was doing bad damage, they wanted to kick a healer because the tank died etc. And you never played with the same people unless you played with friends, so no one had to think about how they behaved.
To be "famous" in the game for what you are good at you need to have a youtube-account and post stuff there. Back in the days killspam in the game made people go "WOW!" and they remembered the name. And of course already back then people used forums (VNBoards etc) and people could get famous that way as well but if they sucked in the game people were fast to tell that in the forums. You played with the same people against the same people day in an day out.
So I think that is the biggest reason for me old games were better. Still you won't go back to them because it was not neccessary the game that was superfun, it was the community. And when the old community was gone, so was the game.
I play games for a while and then I move on. It's not that I don't like the old ones anymore or that I like the new ones better than the old ones.
For me, it's more of an evolutionary process as opposed to a deliberative move based on this or that criteria. It's hard for me to go back and play most older games though. Yes the graphics, but more than that, the UIs tend to be poor IMI, compared to more modern games.
RPG also comes down to classes themselves as well. When is the last time you play a MMO that a class mattered? My guess its not one thats come out in the past 10 years. Every class can be swapped for another and the label of Tank, Healer and DPS has become watered down as well.
Used to be, Healers, DPS, Tank, Support/CC. Gamers often picking classes they liked for the role and need of each class. Picking a class also means you needed to be highly skilled as a gamer to play that role. Walking into a team and seeing an enchanter or a bard, you knew how that changed the dynamic of your team and adjusted your play style. Someone new joins your team in a modern MMO, it does not change anyone's play style. Keep mashing the say hotkeys.
I'm not so sure I miss those old days of class/role locking that came with either no respec opportunity or very limited ones.
Considering how long it used to take to level characters in those old games you could put a lot of time and effort into developing a class/role before you even got to do the kind of content where you finally figured out how the class was supposed to be played... and then you were stuck with it.
Having to redo the grind all over again for the class/role you now knew fit your style better was a pain in the ass.
Rift was actually a breath of fresh air in that regard giving each class many different "souls" that supported a variety of play styles and roles.
And modern MMOs like ESO continue that trend which is IMO a good thing.
I'm also not crazy about the DPS AOE spam fests a lot of the newer MMOs heavily cater to but that's a different issue from class/role locking.
Class flexibility is a very good thing. AOE spam everywhere all the time is not.
Lineage was my first MMO. I still love that game. Hitting level 50 was a major milestone. At 48 - 51 the xp curve was brutal. I was lvl 49.85 (level dot percent to next level) and died. I lost the 5% xp and just logged out. It would have taken me weeks and weeks to get that back and I realized at that moment how stupid it was and just got off the treadmill. No plans to ever do that again.
They were all more or less the same with respect to insane grinds back in those days although Lineage did have the reputation of being especially brutal... lucky you
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
das sehe ich auch so , leider gehöre wohl auch mit zur aussterbende Art von Gamer
I apologize, but I took 1 semester of German in college and that was decades ago. This is an English message board, so if you could respond in English, your posts may contribute more
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Google translate is a wonderful thing....use it dude
Or he could just type in English so we don't have to cut and paste his post into Google translate, then type a reply in Google translate, then cut and paste it for him, and only him, to see... unless of course you expect me to cut and paste your Google translate hackjob German post to understand your reply.
I didn't really quit playing the old school MMO I played (FFXI)... it quit me. They dropped Playstation2 support and the method I was using to pay for my subscription (had to start buying Crysta or something through their online store? Anyway, wouldn't let me, so goodbye.)
I didn't try too hard to figure out a way to keep paying anyway, because the direction the game was going wasn't to my liking. (Leveling up through gear levels, rather than experience levels after 99... which essentially meant group-content boss killing just to hope to get the item that I wanted to drop to "level up", because stat increases were tied to gear... I mean... yuk... and most of my guild had quit long before then. Abyssea killed many guilds, and then they returned to guild-style encounters at such a fundamentally bad level? Really? So I didn't even give a second glance at FFXIV after that debacle.)
I solo 99% of the time in all games I play, MMO or not, when given a choice. I play a lot of Warframe these days, but even that is irking me now, with the change to melee combat and the idiocy of their new free battlepass thing they call Nightwave.
All this has just pushed me further and further away from "gaming" and back to my hobbies of drawing and writing, and self-teaching myself how to code simple games, possibly in flash... because if nobody is making the games I want to play, I'll just make those games myself.
Because real risk vs reward doesnt appeal to everyone. We liked the old MMORPG because it was hard and the community was good. if you acted up you didnt get groups anymore soloing was hard so it required for people to not be asshats. People like the new ones because they are basically single player games masking as mmos you dont make any real bonds with people so its fun and easy to be a douche.
Old School MMOs weren't hard. They were not more difficult than the current ones. They were just filled with time sinks and people equated "time consuming" with difficult. The two are not the same thing.
EQ was never a hard game, it just had strict requirements built into the gameplay and content design.
And it was balanced in a way that made it take as long as the developers could muster to achieve anything in the game.
They loosened up on this later (especially 2003 onwards), where the game basically became not unlike what WoW and EQ2 were at launched - except with far less actual Quest-based content in it.
I disagree. Though EQ had its fair share of "time sinks", they were mainly at upper levels, trying for that top gear like the class item epic quests.
However, at the base, the old MMORPGs were much more difficult in a few ways. "Chance of Failure" is a major one. Today's MMOs have no chance of failure, except getting beat in a fight. You hit 100% at what you aim at. You block or dodge 100% if your timing is right. There is no randomness to fights. You have to think quick when your big, awesome attack misses. "CRAP! What do I now?"
Another way is "Mob Mentality." EQ had their mobs using blind, root, fear, and charm spells. Losing control of your own character is unheard of in today's MMOs. Along with this, a mob that "con'd white" (equal level) with you had a 50/50 chance of beating you. Nothing like that now in today's MMOs. Now sprinkle into low level zones mid to high level monsters. Not easy at all, but missing from today's "safe place" MMOs. The reason people grouped was because XP came faster that way. You could solo even con monsters, but it would take forever if you won, and then you had to heal/recover.
Which leads to the last one, which could be thought of as a "time sink" labeled "Downtime." After a fight, you're hurt. You're tired. Old MMORPGs brought that into their games. New MMOs have lost that, making it easy to run your way through a game in no time. Out of combat healing rates have skyrocketed. EQ had a rate of 1HP/6 seconds (I think), and if sitting down tripled(?), maybe (taxing my memory here). I don't think there was any out of combat mana regen, meditating being the only way to get that back. I could be wrong on the specific numbers, but the ideas are there.
Again, EQ did have its share of time sinks (bosses on timers, random loot drops, etc...), but combat wasn't one of them. For me, difficulty came in the randomness of everything you did, thanks to RNG
PS: Of course, what one player finds difficult, others will say, "Easy peasy!"
Level 39 was a Hell Level in EQ that took 5x longer than 38 That isnt a high level.
Waiting for boats. Corpse recovery. XP grinding, etc Those are all time sinks Camping the same MOB for drops is a time sink. Searching for Quillmane was a time sink. Waiting for boats or Nexus ports was a time sink.
RNG is not difficulty. Its Lottery You're basically doing what I stated everyone does, and trying to act like you aren't.
EQ was a simple, easy game.
Tons of games have fears, roots, and stunts on MOBs That is FAR from unheard of you really sound a bit clueless about this stuff, or you have barely played what this genre has to offer.
In today's games MOBs can dodge hits, I interrupt spells, etc. WTF are you talking about?
What EQ had that modern MMOs lack is a mature gaming community and a larger RP niche. Few people RP these days, or even know how... plus, its awkward as hell to RP with Voice Comms, for obvious reasons.
The people you meet are generally disposable, because most people (as a proportion of the market) aren't as dedicated to the games as they used to be.
Current consumers are very fickle, and are inundated with choices/alternatives.
I don't know if I would classify WoW as an old school MMO. I see it more as the beginning of the end. WoW is the MMO that new MMOs model themselves after to make money, not necessarily produce a good game.
This is correct. WoW may be "classic" by date in MMO standards, but when you look at the shift in the genre WoW made, that is where the distinction between classic and modern should be made. Prior to WoW MMORPGS were trying to figure out what they wanted to be with each on having their own take on it. Due to WoWs success with the masses everyone since has tried to replicate the success rather than create another shift or make their own mark in MMO history.
Age of Conan, Eve Online, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars 2?
I think you're wrong
The most popular non-WoW MMO today, FFXIV, is actually the most like WoW. Irony?
Old MMOs weren't better. They were better in the context of the time period more so than modern or classic MMOs fit in now. MMOs are essentially undead now. They'll shamble along, decaying vestiges of their former selves like a never ending final season of TWD. *shudder*
I think they were better for a number of reasons. Big one was that the game was designed around needing people, friends and guildies. Crafting, leveling, dungeons, raids all needed people to get anywhere. Even EQ1's Epic weapon quest made long term friends I will never forget and still talk to. Modern MMOs have stripped most of that away for convenience and time. I think a MMO could bring back the strong community and do it in ways you dont spend hours looking for teams. If a game does that and the game is fun and has content thats engaging. It will win my business over anything else.
Old MMOs weren't better. They were better in the context of the time period more so than modern or classic MMOs fit in now. MMOs are essentially undead now. They'll shamble along, decaying vestiges of their former selves like a never ending final season of TWD. *shudder*
I think they were better for a number of reasons. Big one was that the game was designed around needing people, friends and guildies. Crafting, leveling, dungeons, raids all needed people to get anywhere. Even EQ1's Epic weapon quest made long term friends I will never forget and still talk to. Modern MMOs have stripped most of that away for convenience and time. I think a MMO could bring back the strong community and do it in ways you dont spend hours looking for teams. If a game does that and the game is fun and has content thats engaging. It will win my business over anything else.
Yet players today, for some unknown reason, log into MMOs and desire a single player game. They want to do what they want, when they want and forget that thousands of other players also play the game. Ask any one of them and they'll say something about "my game", as if no other player plays it.
"Time sinks" are what "go-go-go-GOERS!" call what used to immerse us into the games. I agree some of them were silly, like random Boss loot for a specific item. "Oh, sorry heroes. I left the Sword of Godliness in my other pants! hurhurhur..."
Waiting for boats in EQ is a prime example. "How dare those boats NOT be where I want them when I want them! What is this "schedule thing?" Smart players took note of when they arrived and where and timed their arrival so the wait was negligible. Or, they pulled out their fishing poles and made of use of their downtime... er "time sink."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
It just shows the average joe gamer is leaving MMOs and joining other games that provide a more intant sense of gratification. They lack the long term goal, social mindset needed for old school MMOs, and they will not come back.
Surprisingly, Fantasy Westward Journey Online 2 is the only MMO in the PC list, a very casual themepark MMO that is super popular in China.
There have been many low budget, unpolished mmorpg released over the years. People don't play them... If it have been more popular, we might see larger budget old school MMO.
Not to mention even if they make one, people just complain how crappy they are like new world, or how pay to win they are like archeage.
Irrelevant, this has nothing to do with the style of game, talking about literal old school MMOs late 90's early 2000's. The most beloved old school MMORPGs still exist in one form or another.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
na weil man da noch an seinem Charakter arbeitet muss um sie zu verbessern usw.
Bei den neuen Spielen, war es nicht schlecht, wenn Sie sich nicht mehr bewegen: D
Aber mal ernsthaft in den neuen Spielen ist man spätestens nach 3-5 Monaten doch max. Level und dann ... neues Spiel, weil es zu langweilig ist und den gleichen Müll dann wieder und wieder zu machen, weil die heutigen Spieler keine Geduld und Ausdauer haben (na ich gehöre nicht zu der Fraktion die "erster Ruft") und nach schnellem Level schreien (wie neu Spieler mit Level 3 nach einer Gilde / Clan rufen und noch gar nicht wissen ob das Spiel überhaupt was für sie ist).
In neuen Spielen hat man schnell Langeweile und deshalb gehen die meisten zu den alten Titeln wo man länger drin ist, kann man sich mit Freunden und lieben gewonnenen Feinden aufhalten.
Auch in den neueren Spielen wird so gut wie nichts für den Gilden / Clan getan, ich hoffe, dass das in der Zukunft geändert wird, schnell kann ihr Bett sein
Ich spiele MMORPGs mit Freunden oder gleich gesinnten Zielen und Erfolgen ansonsten könnte ich auch Brettspiele spielen;)
New games want to give us the luxuary in all areas so they make big servers or cluster together servers so that we can get pvp and pve when we want without having to wait. That way you play with different people all the time, you have no clue who is the best in any area and people often tend to act like idiots because they know they don't have to think about what people think about them. All people should be able to craft the best stuff easily, all people should be able to get the best gear easily.
In old games if an idiot was an idiot all on the server knew about it and it got consequences. When I went back to WOW a couple of years ago I was almost shocked how people behaved in instances. They wanted to kick some player because he was doing bad damage, they wanted to kick a healer because the tank died etc. And you never played with the same people unless you played with friends, so no one had to think about how they behaved.
To be "famous" in the game for what you are good at you need to have a youtube-account and post stuff there. Back in the days killspam in the game made people go "WOW!" and they remembered the name. And of course already back then people used forums (VNBoards etc) and people could get famous that way as well but if they sucked in the game people were fast to tell that in the forums. You played with the same people against the same people day in an day out.
So I think that is the biggest reason for me old games were better. Still you won't go back to them because it was not neccessary the game that was superfun, it was the community. And when the old community was gone, so was the game.
Regardless, former is an act of reason, the latter is an act of personal preference.
You're right, rational thinking is uncommon sight on these boards, thus distinguishing between those two makes it indeed weird.
For me, it's more of an evolutionary process as opposed to a deliberative move based on this or that criteria. It's hard for me to go back and play most older games though. Yes the graphics, but more than that, the UIs tend to be poor IMI, compared to more modern games.
I self identify as a monkey.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Wenn Sie google translate und copy paste English verwenden, können wir Sie verstehen. Ich spreche kein deutsch aber ich habe nur google benutzt.
Google translate is a wonderful thing....use it dude
Waiting for boats. Corpse recovery. XP grinding, etc Those are all time sinks Camping the same MOB for drops is a time sink. Searching for Quillmane was a time sink. Waiting for boats or Nexus ports was a time sink.
RNG is not difficulty. Its Lottery You're basically doing what I stated everyone does, and trying to act like you aren't.
EQ was a simple, easy game.
Tons of games have fears, roots, and stunts on MOBs That is FAR from unheard of you really sound a bit clueless about this stuff, or you have barely played what this genre has to offer.
In today's games MOBs can dodge hits, I interrupt spells, etc. WTF are you talking about?
The people you meet are generally disposable, because most people (as a proportion of the market) aren't as dedicated to the games as they used to be.
Current consumers are very fickle, and are inundated with choices/alternatives.
I think you're wrong
The most popular non-WoW MMO today, FFXIV, is actually the most like WoW. Irony?
"Time sinks" are what "go-go-go-GOERS!" call what used to immerse us into the games. I agree some of them were silly, like random Boss loot for a specific item. "Oh, sorry heroes. I left the Sword of Godliness in my other pants! hurhurhur..."
Waiting for boats in EQ is a prime example. "How dare those boats NOT be where I want them when I want them! What is this "schedule thing?" Smart players took note of when they arrived and where and timed their arrival so the wait was negligible. Or, they pulled out their fishing poles and made of use of their downtime... er "time sink."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
What do people want ? shine pretty gears to collect and drama to enjoy