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Losing hope in MMOs
Tyoka
Member Posts: 19
Like a lot of you probably, I was one of those kids who came home from school and drowned myself in fantasy(games, certain TV shows, making my spiderman and power ranger action figures act out dramatic scenes, usually involing combat). Anyway, when I finally got my hands on this amazing thing called the internet, my first experience was role playing in chat rooms. Very pathetic role playing, but role playing nonetheless. After awhile this evolved to me playing Ultima Online. That game took up all of my time, I would do my homework the next day before school simply because I didn't want to miss a moment of my "life" on UO.
Well, after most of the player run servers on UO died, and after living other "lives" on FFXI, EQ, and many other MMOs(that weren't nearly as good as UO), I'm stuck on WoW. It's an ok pass time, but this game, nor any of the other modern day MMOs are making me want to throw my life away on them. That's probably a good thing, but my point is it's become so boring. So I come to this site to look at the future for MMOs, and all I see are "best PvP ever!" or "new innovative combat system!" or "make a guild with your friends, because, you know, you can't do that in EVERY other MMO out there!"
What happened to the role playing? Even DDO has no role play value in it, it's just a combat focused game that resembles DnD. My most memorable moments were on player ran servers on UO that focused on role playing. Now it seems like everything is just putting a new face on the level-grinding-hit-stuff-with-a-sword-or-a-fireball.
I think if Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and Ultima Online had a baby, or like...ran into each other and somehow fused into one, I would be happy.
Does anyone else feel this way?
Comments
Saga of Ryzom is perfect for roleplaying.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
heh been feeling EXACTLY the same way.. nothing seems worth putting the effort and time into..although i have other reasons to think it's all pointless..as i stated in my own thread.
Need a Mmorpg that wants players not just money and is willing to invest time keeping them.
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Think how incredibly cool it could be if you rolled a troll and actually started in a troll cave somewhere instead of a generic 'newbie area'. Or if you actually got rewarded for doing 'troll' things...like robbing passers by, cooking hobbits....cooking a hobbit= instant level up! you get the idea.
It's all level treadmill, the only thing to do in the game is mindless grind, KILL KILL KILL, collecting uber weapons, etc etc... MMOSH= massively multiplayer hack n' slash.
MMOHS, haha. That's good. It does seem like MMOs are becoming a dumping ground for the FPS rejects. People who think they're leet simply because they hit their macro and the numbers were in their favor, or because they spent so much time camping a monster and got a rare drop. I've said it before and I'll say it a million times more, MMOs aren't a test of how skilled you are, they're for role playing.
Anyway, I was sceptical about SoR, but if you really say it's good for role playing, I suppose the 7-day trial is worth a shot. I'm currently downloading it...at 3%!
"And nobody is remotely interested in roleplay."
I have to say it again...RYZOM!
Deep history/lore, revealed through live events and ongoing storylines instead of static quests. Several good roleplaying guilds. Many players are willing to RP to some extent sometimes even if they don't consider themselves roleplayers - the game is just so conducive to it. I've never heard anyone diss RP in Ryzom, either.
A few tips about getting into Ryzom:
- Leave the starting island, which is usually empty, as soon as you're comfortable with the interface/controls.
- Look at the List of Guilds and find an RP guild that suits you.
- There are not many of the Zora
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Right now I dont belive there is going to be any change. Developers see
big numbers in young community that came to MMORPG's from computer
games. Old crew that came from pen and paper roleplay games is dwindling and disapearing.
Log onto any of todays mmorpg's and ask randomly "What is roleplay?" , if you are lucky - 1 of 10 will have some remote clue.
On a WOW designated roleplay server - where 10000 people log daily - there will be around 20 people roleplaying. And this is on roleplay server!
So you see...
I think MMO's are lost for the roleplayers
I admit , i never tried Ryzom ... but other places...man
Melting pot.
Anyway , at least ...we still have some hope...
NWN 2 is comming soon. And surely there will be a lot of roleplay.
Because you see, NWN has private run servers. And there GM's can and do actually enforce roleplay.
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
I don't roleplay because not a single person I've tried to roleplay with has been the least bit believable. You think MMO's clone each other, try looking at the backstory of most of the rp characters out there. "Parents killed at a young age, forced to grow up alone fending for him/herself, yadda yadda". Everybody tries to be so EPIC that it's painful to listen to.
When roleplaying people imo should extrapolate their life onto that of the game world. Instead of creating a NEW persona they should create an ENHANCED persona. If you're an introvert in real life tie that into your character, become stoic and shadowy. If you're an extrovert in real life then run with that in game, it'll appear much more natural.
If you're a roleplayer you are in essence an actor, and the goal of an actor is believability or "suspension of disbelief". Most rpers dont come close to accomplishing this which is why I just dont bother with it. I'll pass up rp for a conversation that doesn't remind me of highschool theatre club...
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SWG - 1st Gen MBH (Closed)
EVE (Closed)
WoW (61 Orc Hunter - Blackwing Lair)
GuildWars (Boring...)
The things that made UO great for roleplayers are some of the same things that made it a crappy game, overall, when judged solely as a "game." There really wasn't anything to do in UO -- not in the sense of pre-scripted activities common in single-player games and "next generation" MMOs. The players were really forced to make thier own fun, and the game gave them the freedom to do that. UO was less of a game and more a space for players to make up their own games.
MMOs are becoming more and more pre-scripted, and the players are having less and less control over the game enviornment. Today's MMOs are not virtual worlds where the players can make their own alternate lives. They are virtual amusement parks where the players wait in line to ride the same rides over and over. If you can't accept them on those terms, then you should really find another hobby.
- Leave real world stuff at the door when you log in to a virtual world.
- Don't discuss Bush and middle east politics with your Ogre Shadowknight while adventuring...
- Don't overuse LOLZ OMGZ, etc....
- Make names that fit the lore. Don't go a RP server and create a character called MR PWNAGE...
It's the little things that break immersion. To me, if you do the above, you are allready roleplaying to a sufficient degree.i lost hope in mmo's since NGE swg and WoW, im just waiting for Roma Victor and Age Of Conan, if those fail to meet my needs ill give up mmorpg's.
I feel like the OP does about current MMOGs missing the RP, although I am surprised to hear that they couldn't find any good roleplaying in EQ1. In the years that I played EQ1, I probably spent more time roleplaying than I did grinding or questing. And so did most of my guild members.
Hmm. Now you guys have me thinking, maybe the issue isn't as much the fault of the games as it is our own? Maybe we are being too hard on people who *do* try to roleplay, and thus discourage them, leading to the very lack of RP that we are complaining about? Maybe we have given up on showing people what good RP looks like, and how fun it can be?
Maybe...just maybe...these games are only we we make of them?
Not really. I love PVP, I love PVE, I even love character building. But I feel RPing is pretty lame. I know it's called a MMORPG, but i dont find myself talking like I lived in the middle ages when I play single player games like Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy, and I sure as hell dont want to do it in an online game either. Other people doing it just make me feel uncomfortable, and usually embarrassed, for them. Usually /ignore them. But hey, thats why they invented RP servers right? More power to the people who RP on the RP servers, where it belongs.
http://defianceguild.guildportal.com
I think I just made myself depressed.
Though I do like ATITD and Roma Victor now. Try the smaller games for RP value. Avoid all the big SOE and NCSoft games. The smaller games all have private publishers with PEOPLE who CARE about their games and thus add in niches who actually care about the theme of the game and hence RP.
In ATITD there is no combat, but the law system is great. You don't have any people with crazy names and if someone chooses an irirtating name you can try to pass a law for them to be renamed by having all PC's of Egypt vote for the new name.
When you roleplay with friends around a table all are more or less using the same conventions about roleplaying. You know them, they know you and can act in a way that is enjoyable for all. But when you come to an MMO there are so many people of different cultures with different backgrounds and also different social behaviors ... and different ideas of what roleplay may be like that you can hardly adapt to their way to roleplay like they cant adapt to your way. It simply needs a bit more of personal interaction and knowing about each other to adapt roleplay to each other in order to make it enjoyable for both.
To be honest, when someone tries to roleplay in an MMO to me most of the time I find the pure way he tries it annoying. It is not my style and my style is not him or her style. We simply dont match which each other in our way to roleplay ... and it would be pure luck to find someone you can really roleplay with in a manner which is enjoyable for both at start.
So I think the reason for roleplaying not happening in MMOs is simply the nature of MMOs. You are playing with people who are that different of you that their way of roleplaying is most likely not yours. After some tries you give up on this ... and thats it. If you like roleplaying invite some friends to your house and do it the old-fashioned way, with a table top role playing game. There it is fun to play and act your roles out, because you are among friends who know and understand you and your way to roleplay.
Ragosch
I agree that mmos have lost their appeal. Esepcialy for those that reached end game in 2 or more , with various characters. The carrot stick has to be wanted aimed for and if it is percieved as just another + 15 sword with this that or the other yep it's stale already.
I also think we the players have contriubuted to this. How so? By playing and paying games that should have not made it out of beta. By accepting crud as playable when you run into walls and walls of bugs or moments where clearly it is not playable due to lag, system specs, video rendering, bad behavior by others that break imersion and the ever so much fun of waiting for a timed spawn.
We have seen the mega market of singal players game rise and the eye candy and even seen some great examples of next generation games especialy for those that saw e 3 footage, and mmos just do not compete.
If we continue to give companies a pass just because we want to play a game, then whatever bad patch they come out with and or bugs in game play and or constant changes they make then as accepting there terms as status quo then yes the industry is what is .More clones headed your way that are just plain sloppily done
I think alot of the problem for experienced MMO players is that sense of newness and excitement. My first MMO was EQOA ( I know, I know) , but I have to say that was the most enjoyable MMO I have played to date. Mainly because it was new to me. Ive never been a big roleplayer, although I was in a roleplay guild in Lineage 2. I think finding people you want to log on and adventure with is the main draw to an MMO. Instead of log on, grind, and log out. To me helping people do quests and so on is a type of roleplay. Something I have gotten away from now that the newness has ran out.
All of us want to find that one MMO that gives us the same feeling we had the first time we logged into one. I still hold out hope for future MMO's, but I have realized its more about the community and how much you are willing to participate in it.
Roleplaying is great, but all of the old guard seem to get discouraged by mister uber l33t who likes to make fun. These games were made for roleplayers, its the kiddies who are out of place. Wether roleplaying to you is getting into full blown character detail, or just participating in the community.
This post got a little out of the box and disjointed..........sorry.
After seeing what the 'roleplayers' in SWG were like, where every 3rd one was a slaver only intrested in female slaves and the whole of that community seemed to revolve around cybering or being a big bad dark sith lord who used roleplay as an excuse to act like a bully, I'll be happy if it never gets past being a minority of the playerbase.
I feel like the OP does about current MMOGs missing the RP, although I am surprised to hear that they couldn't find any good roleplaying in EQ1. In the years that I played EQ1, I probably spent more time roleplaying than I did grinding or questing. And so did most of my guild members.
Hmm. Now you guys have me thinking, maybe the issue isn't as much the fault of the games as it is our own? Maybe we are being too hard on people who *do* try to roleplay, and thus discourage them, leading to the very lack of RP that we are complaining about? Maybe we have given up on showing people what good RP looks like, and how fun it can be?
Maybe...just maybe...these games are only we we make of them?
Defias Brotherhood - EU, Alliance side
After seeing what the 'roleplayers' in SWG were like, where every 3rd one was a slaver only intrested in female slaves and the whole of that community seemed to revolve around cybering or being a big bad dark sith lord who used roleplay as an excuse to act like a bully, I'll be happy if it never gets past being a minority of the playerbase.
And this just goes to prove that roleplaying, in any MMO, is all about personal experiences and individualistic perceptions.
SWG, in my experience, was the single best roleplaying environment I've ever been in.
On Eclips, the server I had joined after Beta with a bunch of friends, it was unreal how many people got into it in a massive way, and you have to remember here that a lot of this took place before there was even ships in the game, no space travel and not alot natural content.
Crafters didn't just craft, they started business's on both massive and small scales, PA's owned sprawling city's that had just about everything imaginable inside it's walls, players started bars that had staff, patrons, advertising, I mean some of them were absolutely amazing.
I really could go on and on, because their was so much of what I consider "natural" roleplaying in SWG of old but the point I'm trying to make here is that it wasn't your typical, "the empire killed my parents and now I'm fighting for revenge" kind of story that was rampant. It was thought out, it was acted out and it was big, really big. And so much fun.
As for the OP, I can't really agree. I see so many great things in the MMO genre, both comming up and things that are going on in the present, I just don't get how people can't be excited about it. As a whole, MMO's are getting very in depth, technology is getting better, more people are getting into the genre and more games are being released to appeal to just about every "type" of gamer out there.
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After seeing what the 'roleplayers' in SWG were like, where every 3rd one was a slaver only intrested in female slaves and the whole of that community seemed to revolve around cybering or being a big bad dark sith lord who used roleplay as an excuse to act like a bully, I'll be happy if it never gets past being a minority of the playerbase.
And this just goes to prove that roleplaying, in any MMO, is all about personal experiences and individualistic perceptions.
SWG, in my experience, was the single best roleplaying environment I've ever been in.
On Eclips, the server I had joined after Beta with a bunch of friends, it was unreal how many people got into it in a massive way, and you have to remember here that a lot of this took place before there was even ships in the game, no space travel and not alot natural content.
Crafters didn't just craft, they started business's on both massive and small scales, PA's owned sprawling city's that had just about everything imaginable inside it's walls, players started bars that had staff, patrons, advertising, I mean some of them were absolutely amazing.
I really could go on and on, because their was so much of what I consider "natural" roleplaying in SWG of old but the point I'm trying to make here is that it wasn't your typical, "the empire killed my parents and now I'm fighting for revenge" kind of story that was rampant. It was thought out, it was acted out and it was big, really big. And so much fun.
As for the OP, I can't really agree. I see so many great things in the MMO genre, both comming up and things that are going on in the present, I just don't get how people can't be excited about it. As a whole, MMO's are getting very in depth, technology is getting better, more people are getting into the genre and more games are being released to appeal to just about every "type" of gamer out there.
I don't know what eclipse was like but crafter setting up their shops and decorating them happened on every server and I know on the servers I played on most of them would not have called themselves 'roleplayers' or been called that by the 'roleplaying' communities. The same goes for player cities, the fun of them was setting them up and decorating and having your guild or communities city but again that wouldn't have been called roleplaying by the roleplayers I was talking about.
As for the state of MMOs and the future I agree with the OP on that part. I can't think of any future ones coming that isn't just a bland copy of WoW. All level/class based, all about combat and nothing else.