"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
Some things have definitely been changed too much in modern MMOs but Classic is reminding me that some things were senseless. Competitive mob tagging needed to die and stay dead. And there is nothing excellent about all those trips back to the trainer every couple of levels.
Combat pacing? Mob difficulty relative to yours? Level progression time? Those parts of Classic I'm really enjoying but there is also senseless drudgery there that has been improved over time.
So Joseph is not wrong about improvements having been made in the genre... side by side with many mistakes.
I disagree when it comes to going back to the trainer. I feel a since a accomplishment that no other MMO has given me by going to my trainer and buying my new spell.
Even when it's rank 2 of what you already know?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
Some things have definitely been changed too much in modern MMOs but Classic is reminding me that some things were senseless. Competitive mob tagging needed to die and stay dead. And there is nothing excellent about all those trips back to the trainer every couple of levels.
Combat pacing? Mob difficulty relative to yours? Level progression time? Those parts of Classic I'm really enjoying but there is also senseless drudgery there that has been improved over time.
So Joseph is not wrong about improvements having been made in the genre... side by side with many mistakes.
I disagree when it comes to going back to the trainer. I feel a since a accomplishment that no other MMO has given me by going to my trainer and buying my new spell.
Even when it's rank 2 of what you already know?
Yeah. I don't maybe I am just weird. I feel like my character is really learning. Instead of it just being put on the hotbar like magic.
My problem with it is that it's inconsistent. Weapons train by using them up to a max per level and when you ding they then start to improve again as you use it and for many classes (auto shoot for Hunters and wand attacks for Warlocks for example) those weapon attacks are hugely important. So why doesn't my Shadow Bolt do the same?
There has to be a sweet spot somewhere between needing to see your trainer for every rank of something you already know and having it appear magically on your bar as you say. IMO Classic skill training is not at that sweet spot.
But then it's not all or nothing for me: Classic isn't the best thing ever and all modern MMOs are not shit. I know, I'm a heretic
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I love the slower pace of Classic, and the danger of the world. I've already died in my short time playing Classic. I never die while leveling in modern WoW.
"Will it be worth it to me to stick it out through the Lich King or the Cataclysm? How vibrant will the player base feel when we can explore Pandaria again?"
Are these planned to be "opened" eventually? If so it's extra incentive for me to stick around since I never "fully" embraced/played them when they were first released.
Blizzard changes the game though right? With each xpac? Why would they re release the expansions? I thought the point of Classic was to experience that exact time? Adding even TBC takes it right down the the path of current retail version right? Not against or for it just wondering why they would consider it. Players can experience all that content currently.
TBC was an ok expansion. WotLK (the 2nd expac) is still considered the best expac WoW ever had.
Even Pandaria after that was actually quite fun.
All the crap started with Cataclysm. Game went steep downhill from there on out.
They will eventually have to consider applying the first expac, TBC at some point as otherwise people will just burn out on Classic. The vast majority playing Classic right now have no idea how extremely time consuming Endgame was at that time! 4 to 6 hour dungeon runs were the norm.
Drop rates on bosses were horrific. I still got nightmares of running UBRS 60+ times for that stupid Hunter chest piece I never got! 60+ long evenings wasted for nothing.
Not going to do that EVER again!
So a lot of people are going to be in shock when they reach max. level! It's not the splitted dungeon wings you got in Retail now, where you do 15-30 minute speed runs through each wing of a dungeon where the rewards rain down on you.
Classic WoW endgame was seriously hardcore grinding, where people were literally fighting over drops! Guild drama was at an all-time high, with guilds disbanding left and right.
The best guilds had setup websites with loot trackers, where master looting was enforced and people got assigned loot based on participation, effort and you still had to be extremely lucky that the item you need drops when you are there and it's your time to be allowed to loot.
I am not joking here. It was that extreme. Welcome to Classic! lol.
So again. Seriously. A hell lot of people playing Classic now are going to be in for a rude awakening! Todays endgame in WoW is very accessible, while in Classic it will be the complete opposite.
WoW classic is a completely different experience than LOTRO legendary servers were. They were basically fresh start servers that had a cap before Moria came out. WoW classic is literally a trip back in time to 2004 WoW release, with none of the UI improvements or anything else there. It has been a refreshing MMORPG experience, honestly. Will it last? No clue. But for now it is pretty awesome to go back in time, even the frustrating parts like quest mob tapping and no "X marks the spot" questing. I actually appreciate it.
I know it is pedantic of me but it isn't a trip back to 2004 at launch, it is back to 2006 by the time Classic's adjustments were implemented. There is significantly less jank than at launch.
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
Some things have definitely been changed too much in modern MMOs but Classic is reminding me that some things were senseless. Competitive mob tagging needed to die and stay dead. And there is nothing excellent about all those trips back to the trainer every couple of levels.
Combat pacing? Mob difficulty relative to yours? Level progression time? Those parts of Classic I'm really enjoying but there is also senseless drudgery there that has been improved over time.
So Joseph is not wrong about improvements having been made in the genre... side by side with many mistakes.
I disagree when it comes to going back to the trainer. I feel a since a accomplishment that no other MMO has given me by going to my trainer and buying my new spell.
Even when it's rank 2 of what you already know?
Yeah. I don't maybe I am just weird. I feel like my character is really learning. Instead of it just being put on the hotbar like magic.
Really? What does your trainer have you do to learn your new skill? What sort of training do they put you through?
This. Skill trainers could go away and I would be fine. I mean honestly sometimes you have to walk all the way back to major city from some backwater just to train a skill. These kinds of features are not role-playing tools or immersive, if they were then like Torval pointed out you would be doing actual training instead of just paying someone money to magically know something.
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
It's sad that you think Vanilla WoW offered those. It's the very thing that ruined MMORPGs and changed the genre from what it was. WoW was made for non-genre hipsters and now I'm watching as they try and rewrite the history of MMORPGs. I find it ironic that people who ruined the genre are now crying tears that a new generation is perverting it.
Careful boomer, you gotta watch your blood pressure. Also imagine complaining about RPG elements while also complaining wow is where rpg elements were removed in the same thread. Go play everquest and listen to nickleback.
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
It's sad that you think Vanilla WoW offered those. It's the very thing that ruined MMORPGs and changed the genre from what it was. WoW was made for non-genre hipsters and now I'm watching as they try and rewrite the history of MMORPGs. I find it ironic that people who ruined the genre are now crying tears that a new generation is perverting it.
Careful boomer, you gotta watch your blood pressure. Also imagine complaining about RPG elements while also complaining wow is where rpg elements were removed in the same thread. Go play everquest and listen to nickleback.
Nickleback is a boomer thing? Good to know. I'll have to tell that to my millennial son who grew up with it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
Some things have definitely been changed too much in modern MMOs but Classic is reminding me that some things were senseless. Competitive mob tagging needed to die and stay dead. And there is nothing excellent about all those trips back to the trainer every couple of levels.
Combat pacing? Mob difficulty relative to yours? Level progression time? Those parts of Classic I'm really enjoying but there is also senseless drudgery there that has been improved over time.
So Joseph is not wrong about improvements having been made in the genre... side by side with many mistakes.
I disagree when it comes to going back to the trainer. I feel a since a accomplishment that no other MMO has given me by going to my trainer and buying my new spell.
Even when it's rank 2 of what you already know?
Yeah. I don't maybe I am just weird. I feel like my character is really learning. Instead of it just being put on the hotbar like magic.
Really? What does your trainer have you do to learn your new skill? What sort of training do they put you through?
This. Skill trainers could go away and I would be fine. I mean honestly sometimes you have to walk all the way back to major city from some backwater just to train a skill. These kinds of features are not role-playing tools or immersive, if they were then like Torval pointed out you would be doing actual training instead of just paying someone money to magically know something.
And this is how we got to the shit MMORPG's we suffer today. Take one little thing that "could go away and I'd be fine" and then another, then another, then another. Before you know it you gave up a world for convenience and you are now playing a solo game with a chat room.
That its why I stop playing Wow and dont play any other mmo games-the "modernizations"..Quest tracker,which you lead to concrete spot on map,so you dont need explore the country, only quickly travel there where you kill all mobs with one hit ,gain lvl and complete the qest which you give another lvl right there and pick another quest and move to there,kill mobs with one hit,gain lvl..etc..be lvl 40 in one day!..All what be fun in old wow is going to be more idle.I wonder when I see some idle games where you dont need do nothing,start killing mobs and go offline,come back and be lvl 500+!..Is that really possible!?!?Paying to game that plays herslef?!..I love play,do qests,explore the world when i qesting,work hard to be lvl up,fight with mobs, not only kill them with signle hit,elite is really elite mob,so without help is impossible kill her.In dungeon pulling more than one pack=death when you dont have skilled party and more and more what i miss in modern games..I miss the challenge,all are easy to obtain.For example-When in wow starts achievements i do the Loremaster achievement,where there,in that times,you must doing all! qests in every zone..I made that and receive the title "Loremaster",it is hard,but not impossible..Now be enough do half of the needed quests and with tracker its simple task for small child..I miss the exploration on my foot when questing,searching concrete mobs and places.Now is questing race for exp..Hate that when i obtain lvl only when i kill one mob and complete the first quest...Its much much more what do the old classic wow damn good game just how the games are now,include modern wow itself..I have still instaled the game in my pc even if i dont played it for years,waiting and praying in hope that the game mechanics go back to old school or someone create game where its not all that simple,where spending time and money be worth for the game..Where you feel like you are there..Sorry for my english..
I've been enjoying it for the most part although I can't stick to a single character and I do find myself getting a bit bored of the combat. I enjoy playing the Xenoblade games on my WiiU and Switch and the party based combat in those games has spoiled me I reckon
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
Some things have definitely been changed too much in modern MMOs but Classic is reminding me that some things were senseless. Competitive mob tagging needed to die and stay dead. And there is nothing excellent about all those trips back to the trainer every couple of levels.
Combat pacing? Mob difficulty relative to yours? Level progression time? Those parts of Classic I'm really enjoying but there is also senseless drudgery there that has been improved over time.
So Joseph is not wrong about improvements having been made in the genre... side by side with many mistakes.
I disagree when it comes to going back to the trainer. I feel a since a accomplishment that no other MMO has given me by going to my trainer and buying my new spell.
Also, deciding when to go. . can I keep going another two levels. . or making sure you grind a few mobs before going back so you are at an even level.
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
Some things have definitely been changed too much in modern MMOs but Classic is reminding me that some things were senseless. Competitive mob tagging needed to die and stay dead. And there is nothing excellent about all those trips back to the trainer every couple of levels.
Combat pacing? Mob difficulty relative to yours? Level progression time? Those parts of Classic I'm really enjoying but there is also senseless drudgery there that has been improved over time.
So Joseph is not wrong about improvements having been made in the genre... side by side with many mistakes.
I disagree when it comes to going back to the trainer. I feel a since a accomplishment that no other MMO has given me by going to my trainer and buying my new spell.
Even when it's rank 2 of what you already know?
Yeah. I don't maybe I am just weird. I feel like my character is really learning. Instead of it just being put on the hotbar like magic.
Really? What does your trainer have you do to learn your new skill? What sort of training do they put you through?
Well to be fair Vanilla/Classic does have some class quests you need to complete to gain a skill. I really enjoy those types of aspects but many bitched about that type of thing
Also they've stated that it's up to the players weather they go with progression expansions or do new unique content in line with the vanilla design. Honestly I'm all for the latter as old school runescape shows that not only can it work it can surpass the original.
A. If this is true you just made my year, thank you!!
B. Is there a link? Or maybe somewhere there is a poll I can vote on?
Thank you in advance
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
Some things have definitely been changed too much in modern MMOs but Classic is reminding me that some things were senseless. Competitive mob tagging needed to die and stay dead. And there is nothing excellent about all those trips back to the trainer every couple of levels.
Combat pacing? Mob difficulty relative to yours? Level progression time? Those parts of Classic I'm really enjoying but there is also senseless drudgery there that has been improved over time.
So Joseph is not wrong about improvements having been made in the genre... side by side with many mistakes.
I disagree when it comes to going back to the trainer. I feel a since a accomplishment that no other MMO has given me by going to my trainer and buying my new spell.
Even when it's rank 2 of what you already know?
Yeah. I don't maybe I am just weird. I feel like my character is really learning. Instead of it just being put on the hotbar like magic.
Really? What does your trainer have you do to learn your new skill? What sort of training do they put you through?
Well to be fair Vanilla/Classic does have some class quests you need to complete to gain a skill. I really enjoy those types of aspects but many bitched about that type of thing
I love those. They're some of the best quests in the game.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
WoW classic is a completely different experience than LOTRO legendary servers were. They were basically fresh start servers that had a cap before Moria came out. WoW classic is literally a trip back in time to 2004 WoW release, with none of the UI improvements or anything else there. It has been a refreshing MMORPG experience, honestly. Will it last? No clue. But for now it is pretty awesome to go back in time, even the frustrating parts like quest mob tapping and no "X marks the spot" questing. I actually appreciate it.
WoW Classic is a trip back to the late summer of 2006, the patch Classic is on is actually quit a bit easier than what 2004/early 2005 WoW was
Why go discover to live the discovery in wow? in what way does discover in WoW discover it in WoW classic? WoW BFA is also pretty good but so much in wow classic having such a time that its one of the experiences I've years now. it shows how bfa to classic and now at moment classic surpass bfa beacuse bfa is what it is to wow as classic wow to wow
I think by now you have gone full spam generator, real people don’t make these sentences....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"As someone who critiques games for a living, it's always good to jump into older games and see how we've improved and how things have changed over time."
I don't think it has improved at all. Most of those, so called, improvements... have done nothing but make the games easier, and ruined the challenge and community aspects of gaming in an mmo.
It's sad that you think Vanilla WoW offered those. It's the very thing that ruined MMORPGs and changed the genre from what it was. WoW was made for non-genre hipsters and now I'm watching as they try and rewrite the history of MMORPGs. I find it ironic that people who ruined the genre are now crying tears that a new generation is perverting it.
"ruined the genre" - the genre of like 3 games; EQ, DAoC and SWG; I believe that after all these years, we should look back and acknowledge that this game DEFINED the genre. If you went and played it now, I'm guessing you would also see that they retained a lot more than we gave them credit for at the time.
Comments
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
There has to be a sweet spot somewhere between needing to see your trainer for every rank of something you already know and having it appear magically on your bar as you say. IMO Classic skill training is not at that sweet spot.
But then it's not all or nothing for me: Classic isn't the best thing ever and all modern MMOs are not shit. I know, I'm a heretic
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
TBC was an ok expansion. WotLK (the 2nd expac) is still considered the best expac WoW ever had.
Even Pandaria after that was actually quite fun.
All the crap started with Cataclysm. Game went steep downhill from there on out.
They will eventually have to consider applying the first expac, TBC at some point as otherwise people will just burn out on Classic. The vast majority playing Classic right now have no idea how extremely time consuming Endgame was at that time! 4 to 6 hour dungeon runs were the norm.
Drop rates on bosses were horrific. I still got nightmares of running UBRS 60+ times for that stupid Hunter chest piece I never got! 60+ long evenings wasted for nothing.
Not going to do that EVER again!
So a lot of people are going to be in shock when they reach max. level! It's not the splitted dungeon wings you got in Retail now, where you do 15-30 minute speed runs through each wing of a dungeon where the rewards rain down on you.
Classic WoW endgame was seriously hardcore grinding, where people were literally fighting over drops! Guild drama was at an all-time high, with guilds disbanding left and right.
The best guilds had setup websites with loot trackers, where master looting was enforced and people got assigned loot based on participation, effort and you still had to be extremely lucky that the item you need drops when you are there and it's your time to be allowed to loot.
I am not joking here. It was that extreme. Welcome to Classic! lol.
So again. Seriously. A hell lot of people playing Classic now are going to be in for a rude awakening! Todays endgame in WoW is very accessible, while in Classic it will be the complete opposite.
I meant 2006.....whatever. Point still stands.
Careful boomer, you gotta watch your blood pressure. Also imagine complaining about RPG elements while also complaining wow is where rpg elements were removed in the same thread. Go play everquest and listen to nickleback.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
And this is how we got to the shit MMORPG's we suffer today. Take one little thing that "could go away and I'd be fine" and then another, then another, then another. Before you know it you gave up a world for convenience and you are now playing a solo game with a chat room.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
A. If this is true you just made my year, thank you!!
B. Is there a link? Or maybe somewhere there is a poll I can vote on?
Thank you in advance
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
WoW Classic is a trip back to the late summer of 2006, the patch Classic is on is actually quit a bit easier than what 2004/early 2005 WoW was
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"ruined the genre" - the genre of like 3 games; EQ, DAoC and SWG; I believe that after all these years, we should look back and acknowledge that this game DEFINED the genre. If you went and played it now, I'm guessing you would also see that they retained a lot more than we gave them credit for at the time.