MMORPG have not improved in the last 2-3 decades with all the power and space they are arcade?

brenth · September 2019

I am a middle-aged player I grew up on the promice that if only we had more space and power games would be better.
and sure they have gotten prettier and bigger but NOT any better, they are still about hack and slash with the simplest AI put a quarter in type play. For me I look for immersion a idealized reality alternate universe, this takes more than cut and paste it takes emotion in the story line, surprise and the less predictable im not one for pure reality but idealized reality thurst in a desert, cold in the arctic even injuries that can be overcome local resources not the evenly spread ground nuggets and economies based on these that are really valued. multi level pvp so players can at least choose their level of risk mobs with priority based reactions. I have even seen tree seeds with priority based reaction.
build a space game where you control a remote drone to explore and build on the moon or some other planet or asteroid switch between other craft bodies and work with organic astronauts.
escape a dieing world and find yourself on a new planet with almost no knowledge of what you might find there with near infinite discovery ahead of you.
sadly nothing has even come close everquest next maybe but it was vaporware.
are there any such games out there close to what I'm looking for that aren't fatally flawed in some other way?
im currently playing eso but its quests dead end its crafting is lacking 550 provision recopies with no uses. I am a casual player I quest and explore I would farm a crop I would build.

Kyleran · September 2019

Give No Mans Sky a go, actually ticks a lot of your boxes

Slapshot1188 · September 2019

3 decades ago the year was 1989. This fact has prevented me from reading anything past your thread title. I love the 80s as much as the next guy... but come on man...

bonzoso21 · September 2019

You seem to want MMORPGs to provide some very specific experiences along with the mystery of never knowing what's around the next corner, but to somehow do so in a completely unscripted way. Did I read that wrong? The thing is that you never know what's around the next corner until you do. As much as I enjoy what No Man's Sky has become, even procedurally-generated worlds like that tend to look same-ish within hours because of the limited pool of artistic assets created by the development team.

It sounds like Sci-Fi, but I don't think MMOs will take another leap forward until we reach the point that AI can create the art, produce the audio, write the stories, etc, AND when people are accepting of it. We'll probably be there by mid-century, but there are plenty of philosophic debates to be had about the human element of art and the inevitable job losses and what not.

In the meantime, why not look to the many great single-player games out there? For now, that kind of mystery can only come from playing something new, and it certainly doesn't hurt immersion when you have $200M worth of AAA audio/visuals contributing to the experience.

Wizardry · September 2019

Simple answer,all kinds of really crap dev studios out there.
Seriously what should we expect from studios that have the budget of a chip wagon?Does anyone honestly think all these fly by night chip wagon operations are going to make a AAA game...lol.

It doesn't matter 1909...1989...2009,the ONLY improvement in mmorpg's has been the graphics,most of the rest of these designs are very shallow or plain worse.
So all those dev studios can give themselves a pat on the back...you suck at a very high level.

Adding in pvp or ACTION combat ideas is NOT improving the genre.They "COULD"but not the way these studios are doing it with their lazy work.

Viper482 · September 2019

30 years eh?

Viper482 · September 2019

OG_Zorvan said:

Slapshot1188 said:

3 decades ago the year was 1989. This fact has prevented me from reading anything past your thread title. I love the 80s as much as the next guy... but come on man...

Gotta remember Neverwinter Nights on AOL was released 2 years later in 1991, in dev before then. The dream of eventual online virtual worlds has been real for 3 decades. Not to mention the 80's was the "technological revolution" era, culturally speaking. In '89 every yuppie had a cell phone in their car and in a bag, MAX HEADROOM was the hope of AI, and anything tech was cool ( even calculator watches ).

Got it dude....they existed in some form. Good homework, you got an A. With that.....are you telling me (per the title) MMORPG's have not improved since Neverwinter Nights on AOL in 1991? Because that is what dude is saying.

Slapshot1188 · September 2019

OG_Zorvan said:

Slapshot1188 said:

3 decades ago the year was 1989. This fact has prevented me from reading anything past your thread title. I love the 80s as much as the next guy... but come on man...

Gotta remember Neverwinter Nights on AOL was released 2 years later in 1991, in dev before then. The dream of eventual online virtual worlds has been real for 3 decades. Not to mention the 80's was the "technological revolution" era, culturally speaking. In '89 every yuppie had a cell phone in their car and in a bag, MAX HEADROOM was the hope of AI, and anything tech was cool ( even calculator watches ). And even TRON took us inside the world inside the arcade machine

Sure.. but to think that was the highest point of MMORPG development? Come on man. Let's be serious.

Brunlin · September 2019

I understand where you are coming from but i think you mean in the last few years mmorpgs haven't evolved much. (not 3 decades, because we have come along ways since mudds)That would make more sense. We are in a funk in the mmo genre atm and have been for the last few years but i feel something will come out that will evolve the genre or replace it will just have to wait and see what that might be.

AAAMEOW · September 2019

It is difficult to survive the mmorpg market. Many people are already playing a mmorpg and won't jump ship. And the people who want to play a mmorpg but can't find one they want to play(when there are hundreds on the market) are pretty picky.

WoeToTheVanquished · September 2019

MMOs did progress in terms of graphics and combat, but the overall progression systems are lacking or not worth reusing. D&D is the basic premise of RPGs, but nobody can do it right.

Amaranthar · September 2019

WoeToTheVanquished said:

MMOs did progress in terms of graphics and combat, but the overall progression systems are lacking or not worth reusing. D&D is the basic premise of RPGs, but nobody can do it right.

Not only can't they do it right, they've taken it to new levels that make a mockery of "a world" in the god-like power gaps done many times over.

rounner · September 2019

@OP if you want serious dialogue, redo the thread with a title like "where are the virtual worlds we were promised " etc.

Phry · September 2019

We have more MMO's and Games now than ever before, games are increasing in size due to their complexity and graphical fidelity, 30 years ago you wouldn't measure them even in terms of mb now we are measuring them in terms of gb, it is not inconceivable that in the near'ish future that games will exceed 1tb in size, its even possible that Star Citizen will launch before this happens, but, personally would not make any bets on that

ET3D · September 2019

brenth said:

I grew up on the promice that if only we had more space and power games would be better.

I'm not sure who promised you that. In many ways they are indeed better. In many ways they aren't. The problem is, what you this is better isn't necessarily what others think is better, and gaming companies tend to gravitate toward what makes money. On the plus side, the gaming market is large enough that there are quite a few niches, and one might fit you better.

Azaron_Nightblade · September 2019

And sci-fi movies promised we'd have android waifus by now

AlBQuirky · September 2019

I get where the OP is coming from. And for those who take the extreme case (3 decades) and run with it, how about the lesser extreme of 20 years ago (1999)? Or do you just seek out what to nitpik, just because? MUDs were available before MMORPGs.

As for advancing in technology, MMOs have most certainly advanced. In graphics (the biggest advancement), voice overs (right up there in space usage), and ease of access and play (monetization). Have the worlds gotten deeper? More complex? Has AI improved? Do you get lost (as in losing REAL time) while playing? Remember when the old MMORPGs had "timers" for players' convenience that you could set?

I agree with the OP. When I played EQ back in 2001 (late to the genre) and CoH and WoW later on, I imagined that with technological advances, we would see deeper games. That hasn't come to pass as developers work overtime to make their games pretty and eye-cacthing instead of immersive. They devote LOTS of time on how to wring more money from our hands. They waste disc space on voiced lines that are hit or miss.

For those that liked the older MMORPGs, have they actually "improved?"

AlBQuirky · September 2019

Azaron_Nightblade said:

And sci-fi movies promised we'd have android waifus by now

And HOVERBOARDS!!!!

MMOExposed · September 2019

AAAMEOW said:

It is difficult to survive the mmorpg market. Many people are already playing a mmorpg and won't jump ship. And the people who want to play a mmorpg but can't find one they want to play(when there are hundreds on the market) are pretty picky.

Lots on the market but most do the same thing.

Where the Faction based Sandbox MMORPG? All these years and the closest thing to that is Planetside 2...

Where the Levelless Themepark MMO? The Secret World marketed itself as such but wasn't close. Still was character levels and gated world.

Where are the MMORPGs with voxel building? Ever quest Next failed to come I believe.

With the new aged Dynamic Event system like GW2, why nobody else doing this?

Where are the good Faction pvp MMORPGs without level grind?

BeansnBread · September 2019

AlBQuirky said:

I get where the OP is coming from. And for those who take the extreme case (3 decades) and run with it, how about the lesser extreme of 20 years ago (1999)? Or do you just seek out what to nitpik, just because? MUDs were available before MMORPGs.

As for advancing in technology, MMOs have most certainly advanced. In graphics (the biggest advancement), voice overs (right up there in space usage), and ease of access and play (monetization). Have the worlds gotten deeper? More complex? Has AI improved? Do you get lost (as in losing REAL time) while playing? Remember when the old MMORPGs had "timers" for players' convenience that you could set?

I agree with the OP. When I played EQ back in 2001 (late to the genre) and CoH and WoW later on, I imagined that with technological advances, we would see deeper games. That hasn't come to pass as developers work overtime to make their games pretty and eye-cacthing instead of immersive. They devote LOTS of time on how to wring more money from our hands. They waste disc space on voiced lines that are hit or miss.

For those that liked the older MMORPGs, have they actually "improved?"

What is strange is that I think single player games have taken on the reigns when it comes to world-building. Bethesda games were the classic example, but games like GTA5, Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption and Cyberpunk 2077 really focus on making their worlds deeper, more complex, allow you to get lost in them and so forth like you were saying.

It seems like having real players in a game would make it feel more real, but of course it has the opposite effect. Vagslammer69 has an immediate effect on one's immersion. The closest I ever came to feeling like a part of living, breathing world was EVE. And those were some great gaming years for me.

MMOExposed · September 2019

Phry said:

We have more MMO's and Games now than ever before, games are increasing in size due to their complexity and graphical fidelity, 30 years ago you wouldn't measure them even in terms of mb now we are measuring them in terms of gb, it is not inconceivable that in the near'ish future that games will exceed 1tb in size, its even possible that Star Citizen will launch before this happens, but, personally would not make any bets on that

MMOs are getting larger in development, but world's are getting smaller. Look at Vanilla Rift for example and compare it to its originator of Vanilla WoW. It's a clear step down in game world size yet most of the data is likely graphic improvements not gameplay and content.

Viper482 · September 2019

AlBQuirky said:

I get where the OP is coming from. And for those who take the extreme case (3 decades) and run with it, how about the lesser extreme of 20 years ago (1999)? Or do you just seek out what to nitpik, just because? MUDs were available before MMORPGs.

As for advancing in technology, MMOs have most certainly advanced. In graphics (the biggest advancement), voice overs (right up there in space usage), and ease of access and play (monetization). Have the worlds gotten deeper? More complex? Has AI improved? Do you get lost (as in losing REAL time) while playing? Remember when the old MMORPGs had "timers" for players' convenience that you could set?

I agree with the OP. When I played EQ back in 2001 (late to the genre) and CoH and WoW later on, I imagined that with technological advances, we would see deeper games. That hasn't come to pass as developers work overtime to make their games pretty and eye-cacthing instead of immersive. They devote LOTS of time on how to wring more money from our hands. They waste disc space on voiced lines that are hit or miss.

For those that liked the older MMORPGs, have they actually "improved?"

Ummm, he literally typed "3 decades".....he took it to the extreme, not us. So you are saying we took it to the extreme by mocking his taking it to the extreme? Really?

MMOExposed · September 2019

Another thing I want to point out. Lots of new aged MMO developers don't even want to put in the effort to include Player Housing. Remember how much fighting we had to do with Blizzard and Trion for Housing feature? They both said no at first and that it was a useless feature. Now in GW2 we having this same argument.

MMO developers are so detached from what the players want. This why so many of them fail.
Honestly when the few MMOs do make good decisions in game design, these Developers really DON'T KNOW WHY IT WAS SUCCESSFUL. This why they just copy each other because they have no real philosophical study of what the gamer base wants and why certain features work or not.

BeansnBread · September 2019

Viper482 said:

AlBQuirky said:

I get where the OP is coming from. And for those who take the extreme case (3 decades) and run with it, how about the lesser extreme of 20 years ago (1999)? Or do you just seek out what to nitpik, just because? MUDs were available before MMORPGs.

As for advancing in technology, MMOs have most certainly advanced. In graphics (the biggest advancement), voice overs (right up there in space usage), and ease of access and play (monetization). Have the worlds gotten deeper? More complex? Has AI improved? Do you get lost (as in losing REAL time) while playing? Remember when the old MMORPGs had "timers" for players' convenience that you could set?

I agree with the OP. When I played EQ back in 2001 (late to the genre) and CoH and WoW later on, I imagined that with technological advances, we would see deeper games. That hasn't come to pass as developers work overtime to make their games pretty and eye-cacthing instead of immersive. They devote LOTS of time on how to wring more money from our hands. They waste disc space on voiced lines that are hit or miss.

For those that liked the older MMORPGs, have they actually "improved?"

Ummm, he literally typed "3 decades".....he took it to the extreme, not us. So you are saying we took it to the extreme by mocking his taking it to the extreme? Really?

Did he change the title or something? It says 2-3 decades for me.

AlBQuirky · September 2019

Viper482 said:

AlBQuirky said:

I get where the OP is coming from. And for those who take the extreme case (3 decades) and run with it, how about the lesser extreme of 20 years ago (1999)? Or do you just seek out what to nitpik, just because? MUDs were available before MMORPGs.

As for advancing in technology, MMOs have most certainly advanced. In graphics (the biggest advancement), voice overs (right up there in space usage), and ease of access and play (monetization). Have the worlds gotten deeper? More complex? Has AI improved? Do you get lost (as in losing REAL time) while playing? Remember when the old MMORPGs had "timers" for players' convenience that you could set?

I agree with the OP. When I played EQ back in 2001 (late to the genre) and CoH and WoW later on, I imagined that with technological advances, we would see deeper games. That hasn't come to pass as developers work overtime to make their games pretty and eye-cacthing instead of immersive. They devote LOTS of time on how to wring more money from our hands. They waste disc space on voiced lines that are hit or miss.

For those that liked the older MMORPGs, have they actually "improved?"

Ummm, he literally typed "3 decades".....he took it to the extreme, not us. So you are saying we took it to the extreme by mocking his taking it to the extreme? Really?

Ummmm, he literally said 2-3 decades. YOU decided 3 decades was what he was talking about.

Mendel · September 2019

AlBQuirky said:

I get where the OP is coming from. And for those who take the extreme case (3 decades) and run with it, how about the lesser extreme of 20 years ago (1999)? Or do you just seek out what to nitpik, just because? MUDs were available before MMORPGs.

As for advancing in technology, MMOs have most certainly advanced. In graphics (the biggest advancement), voice overs (right up there in space usage), and ease of access and play (monetization). Have the worlds gotten deeper? More complex? Has AI improved? Do you get lost (as in losing REAL time) while playing? Remember when the old MMORPGs had "timers" for players' convenience that you could set?

I agree with the OP. When I played EQ back in 2001 (late to the genre) and CoH and WoW later on, I imagined that with technological advances, we would see deeper games. That hasn't come to pass as developers work overtime to make their games pretty and eye-cacthing instead of immersive. They devote LOTS of time on how to wring more money from our hands. They waste disc space on voiced lines that are hit or miss.

For those that liked the older MMORPGs, have they actually "improved?"

Despite the advances in graphics and incidentals like voice-over and possibly world complexity, games still give us a group of 6 beating on 1 active mob for minutes. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. There has been nothing to advance the game play aspect of MMORPGs since the first generation. The basic abstraction of Combat with Magic and Crafting (optional) hasn't changed. The only important decision in-game is "Which mob do I fight first, Mob A or Mob B?", and all important points in a character's life involves killing. There's no religion, no politics, no education, no discovery, no breaks for healing or breaks for recovery. A character can't even get into a tavern brawl. There's no life beyond fighting.

If a book were made to match the game play accurately, it would be considered "shallow" and "inconsequential". There's nothing new that a character can learn or discover, either about the world or themselves. There's also nothing that the game teaches the player about themselves. No actions or situations in the game encourages a player to evaluate their own values and beliefs. All games are devoid of moral questions; MMORPGs should have started to incorporate this level of complexity of worlds by now. Instead, abilities are regularly doled out solely in recognition of the cumulative number of opponents killed, and games (and players) look longingly back to the first generation for their inspiration.

Is it any wonder that the violence in video games crowd exists, when what should be the pinnacle of gaming, MMORPGs, never touch any theme other than fighting?

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MMORPG have not improved in the last 2-3 decades with all the power and space they are arcade?

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MMORPG have not improved in the last 2-3 decades with all the power and space they are arcade?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV