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delete5230 · September 2019

Yet again I'm doing a 180 degree spin.

Were trying anticipate a Genius. Were using conventional time frames. Brad is an oddball but in a good way. You can't out guess a person like that...... It seems we need to let him work.

Some times I'm out in the garage building something and the wife has no idea, she seems clueless even if I explain. It's often time consuming and she gets mad. The final product says it all. Most times she loves the end results.

Here is Nathan NAPALM, who is another obsessed fan of Old School and Pantheon doing a video on the information from the September news letter.

This one covers some of many class updates, big deal right ?.... Well it is.

It demonstrates unique ideas much like Vanguard classes only a step above, It seems like something never attempted, times two. Brad and Visionary Realms could be "shooting for the stars" like no one else could image.

So their stuck in Class design….. Maybe so what ?..... After all this is the key selling point of the game. Every unique idea is based from that.

It's the big feature.

I'll use my own words here,

Where games like World of Warcraft offers a talent tree with 3 options, and allow deeper customization within each. Pantheon will make the player find customization in the world…. You have to search for it or ask for help or hard to reach spots !...... It seems you have to venture for it.

Questing…. Second and Third generation games have the player on a predetermined course. Find this and turn it in, get your reward. Pantheon will not be linear…. You'll be after something, but often your not sure what it is.... It's shock and awe

Brad is one of the founders of this idea. It was a great idea that had a future but suddenly stopped.

Brad knows it's still a great idea…. He just has to make a game to prove it in his own odd way….. Maybe we just need to let him work.

Anyway here's the video:

Amathe · September 2019

It's great that they have creative ideas. But five or so years, this is starting to feel more like Coral Castle in Miami, Florida, built by a man broken hearted over his lost love. It took him around 30 years. You can google it. It is really, really cool, but the time spent - damn.

TiamatRoar · September 2019

It's a video of concepts and concept arts.

Sovrath · September 2019

Celestial "aygis?"

ee.jis

Nice video but we'll see.

I'm not concerned for the time as they have stopped and started a few times. In truth I have no concerns because I don't believe one should be "invested" in the outcome. It will either launch or not. I've given $100 and as always have adopted a "wait and see" attitude.

I'd love it if it did launch but It's still a work in progress.

[Deleted User] · September 2019

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Sovrath · September 2019

Amathe said:

It's great that they have creative ideas. But five or so years, this is starting to feel more like Coral Castle in Miami, Florida, built by a man broken hearted over his lost love. It took him around 30 years. You can google it. It is really, really cool, but the time spent - damn.

But you have to admire that he finished it. But then one wonders why he couldn't let go and move on from one relationship.

Amathe · September 2019

Sovrath said:

Amathe said:

It's great that they have creative ideas. But five or so years, this is starting to feel more like Coral Castle in Miami, Florida, built by a man broken hearted over his lost love. It took him around 30 years. You can google it. It is really, really cool, but the time spent - damn.

But you have to admire that he finished it. But then one wonders why he couldn't let go and move on from one relationship.

We are all stupid for love once or twice. If I was a stonemason and a little crazier, who knows.

WarEnsemble · September 2019

I just had a serious nerdgasm. I hope for this game more than I have any others.

Sovrath · September 2019

Amathe said:

Sovrath said:

Amathe said:

It's great that they have creative ideas. But five or so years, this is starting to feel more like Coral Castle in Miami, Florida, built by a man broken hearted over his lost love. It took him around 30 years. You can google it. It is really, really cool, but the time spent - damn.

But you have to admire that he finished it. But then one wonders why he couldn't let go and move on from one relationship.

We are all stupid for love once or twice. If I was a stonemason and a little crazier, who knows.

Over 20 years. 20.

In any case, on topic, the vides, though we've seen them before, are a testament to how good it looks for an indy game.

Hashbrick · September 2019

Presented by Urkle himself. I actually lost interest from that video and my interest was already lost years ago. So now we are in negative interest. Also delete's rambling, unending sentences and pure insanity doesn't help.

Amathe · September 2019

Sovrath said:

Over 20 years. 20.

Don't try to out nerd me! Over 28. I rounded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle

Sovrath · September 2019

Amathe said:

Sovrath said:

Over 20 years. 20.

Don't try to out nerd me! Over 28. I rounded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle

was more about the idea that it was over 2 decades to pine for someone. Not the actual number

Having said that, I really hope they finish the new area so that it can inspire some investment.

Mendel · September 2019

Another video with older game play discussing ideas (with rather vague text overlays taken straight from a Q&A with VR). Again, there's nothing concrete other than "We're working on this". The problem seems to be that every class is still in development, with few of these concepts actually implemented. How about instead of explaining or discussing the written concept, let us see the concept as implemented?

Before anyone suggests that mechanisms like Momentum are new and unique, may I suggest playing any of the LotRO melee classes, like a Champion or Captain, or even the Hunter class. Build Focus/Momentum/whatever to enable use of different abilities. (These kind of situational abilities *will* require more than an 8-10 button hotbar for most people).

It still seem to me that Brad is designing the same game he has designed twice before, only with the help of a thesaurus. Maybe he's hoping that no one will notice.

Amathe · September 2019

It's like when i was a kid and my mom made me clean up my room.

Mom: How's it coming in there?

Me: Fine! Everything's fine! Look, I moved this sock into the hamper. Sock's in the hamper. See, it's fine.

Sovrath · September 2019

Mendel said:

Before anyone suggests that mechanisms like Momentum are new and unique, may I suggest playing any of the LotRO melee classes, like a Champion or Captain, or even the Hunter class. Build Focus/Momentum/whatever to enable use of different abilities. (These kind of situational abilities *will* require more than an 8-10 button hotbar for most people).

It still seem to me that Brad is designing the same game he has designed twice before, only with the help of a thesaurus. Maybe he's hoping that no one will notice.

While the other points are well taken I don't think anyone cares that we are getting something new and unique. And quite frankly, when I played Lord of the Rings Online for the first time I wasn't bowled over by anything that was happening with the classes other than the Warden Class when it came out.

I think people want the same game but with a new setting, slightly updated graphics and UI and an old school sensibility. I know I do. I'm not looking for "new" (because "new" is really seldom ever "new!")

Heck, I reloaded the Vanguard private server (which runs better for me now) and am quite happy with what is going on there. I want world. That's what I want.

I strongly suspect others who want this type of game might be ok with it as well.

Geeky · September 2019

Sovrath said:

I think people want the same game but with a new setting, slightly updated graphics and UI and an old school sensibility. I know I do. I'm not looking for "new" (because "new" is really seldom ever "new!")

Heck, I reloaded the Vanguard private server (which runs better for me now) and am quite happy with what is going on there. I want world. That's what I want.

I strongly suspect others who want this type of game might be ok with it as well.

Exactolactly

Wizardry · September 2019

Thee narrator did a decent job describing all the classes ,i applaud that as is exactly what i want to see instead of the many advert articles we usually get.
In essence this guy does a better job than every single writer this site employs.

However there is very likely more important information that i need to know.
Example all these mentioned powerful abilities.Instead of a counter,i rather see a penalty,example your defense weakens extremely for 30 secs to 1 minute.

Another idea i actually hate in games are meters/bars.IMO the ONLY classes that should have a bar are mages with mana bars.You know how you control a class from perhaps being OP in dps>>VERY easy>>>hate meters.If a class has a high dps it should have very weak defense,the players shows no restraint,trying to show off,it gathers hate and takes 2 hits and dead.

I like to see players THINK before acting and have consequence for bad decisions.

Anyhow,i see a lot of room to improve all those design ideas but then again,if i don't know all the information,which we don't,then i really don't know.

Tiller · September 2019

lol when @delete5230 bought his first house.

delete5230: "It has four walls, I'm sold!"

Everyone laughed, and no one told him it was an outhouse.

DafAtRandom · September 2019

Sovrath said:

Mendel said:

Before anyone suggests that mechanisms like Momentum are new and unique, may I suggest playing any of the LotRO melee classes, like a Champion or Captain, or even the Hunter class. Build Focus/Momentum/whatever to enable use of different abilities. (These kind of situational abilities *will* require more than an 8-10 button hotbar for most people).

It still seem to me that Brad is designing the same game he has designed twice before, only with the help of a thesaurus. Maybe he's hoping that no one will notice.

While the other points are well taken I don't think anyone cares that we are getting something new and unique. And quite frankly, when I played Lord of the Rings Online for the first time I wasn't bowled over by anything that was happening with the classes other than the Warden Class when it came out.

I think people want the same game but with a new setting, slightly updated graphics and UI and an old school sensibility. I know I do. I'm not looking for "new" (because "new" is really seldom ever "new!")

Heck, I reloaded the Vanguard private server (which runs better for me now) and am quite happy with what is going on there. I want world. That's what I want.

I strongly suspect others who want this type of game might be ok with it as well.

This. There are so many people that write day in, day out, here and everywhere, about how they are waiting for the next game that will truly innovate in the genre...well...it's been stagnating for years and years...sometimes you just gotta open your eyes and realize that this is what we get, the state of the industry is as stale as ever...so maybe going back to the roots is not that bad a thing.

Just look at all the games either having their own "classic" relaunch, or all of the private servers...there's a reason those exist. That's because there's a bunch of us who don't care about the predigested crap that's coming out on the regular. Does that mean Pantheon will be successful or that it will be the "savior" ? No. But some of us are longing for a game world to explore...not a sad litany of 3 mouse clicks to get across the world in 2.7 seconds to be locked in an instance with a few other wordless people from servers you never rolled a character on.

DafAtRandom · September 2019

Prime_Directive said:

what find so epically entertaining as "and you have to rest to regain mp" woah , mindblowing dude, let me go put some steaks on the barbie and hold up the other 5 people while I waste time regening.

Hey guys steaks done I'm back, regen is half way, got to grab a flavvored water.. ok back , whatr jimmy logged ? wtf it is only 4am ? !

If regen and sitting around twitting your thumbs is nostalgia, i dont even know how to respond to that, but with straight out sarcasm.

It is almost 2020 and the old people want takes us back to 1999, it is a disaster in the making and millions of dollars wasted thatrt could've gone to helping the homeless in California. IT makes me almost sick to my stomach the more I think about the amount of money including myself wasted on these kickstarters and watching the news over 80k people homeless in one city.

Age has influenced this post.

This is 2019...not 1999...seriously...while mana replenishes...don't act like you're gonna be just sitting there doing nothing...you'll be on your phone looking up a quest, a girl, a guy, cat videos, catching on emails, looking at pr0n...people always think...omg i will have downtime what will i do with my life...well...the same you do when you pretend you listen to your SO...you'll bury your face in your phone, and before you know it, you'll look back at the screen and your mana bar will be back to full...or your travel by boat will be done...or whatever.

Seriously, it's not a big deal. If you want to steamroll through everything in 4 seconds, you've got literally hundred of games to choose from.

delete5230 · September 2019

Prime_Directive said:

what find so epically entertaining as "and you have to rest to regain mp" woah , mindblowing dude, let me go put some steaks on the barbie and hold up the other 5 people while I waste time regening.

Hey guys steaks done I'm back, regen is half way, got to grab a flavvored water.. ok back , whatr jimmy logged ? wtf it is only 4am ? !

If regen and sitting around twitting your thumbs is nostalgia, i dont even know how to respond to that, but with straight out sarcasm.

It is almost 2020 and the old people want takes us back to 1999, it is a disaster in the making and millions of dollars wasted thatrt could've gone to helping the homeless in California. IT makes me almost sick to my stomach the more I think about the amount of money including myself wasted on these kickstarters and watching the news over 80k people homeless in one city.

Age has influenced this post.

I agree with several others... Their are tons of fast action games. In fact every mmorpg had turned that way.

Group strategy games are not built only for old people.

It's a sweet feeling to know you have to be careful but counting on others to do the same is a lot of fun too. First and second gen mmorpgs were built on this foundation and it was loved by millions.... Now's the chance for a new generation of players to witness this style too without having to resort to "old games" to try it !

Utinni · September 2019

"TONS OF NEW INFO"

They could've fit all the new info in a tweet.

Sovrath · September 2019

Prime_Directive said:

what find so epically entertaining as "and you have to rest to regain mp" woah , mindblowing dude, let me go put some steaks on the barbie and hold up the other 5 people while I waste time regening.

Hey guys steaks done I'm back, regen is half way, got to grab a flavvored water.. ok back , whatr jimmy logged ? wtf it is only 4am ? !

If regen and sitting around twitting your thumbs is nostalgia, i dont even know how to respond to that, but with straight out sarcasm.

It is almost 2020 and the old people want takes us back to 1999, it is a disaster in the making and millions of dollars wasted thatrt could've gone to helping the homeless in California. IT makes me almost sick to my stomach the more I think about the amount of money including myself wasted on these kickstarters and watching the news over 80k people homeless in one city.

Age has influenced this post.

"Resting" always had the added bonus of interacting, of talking. That was the social part. Just like waiting at a dock for a boat. It was fun. Sometimes we'd be attacked while resting and had to scramble to take care of the threat. Also fun.

However, "The old folks" don't want to take "you" anywhere. I promise you that.

"We" want to play a game that is similar to the games that used to be made.

Mendel · September 2019

Sovrath said:

Mendel said:

Before anyone suggests that mechanisms like Momentum are new and unique, may I suggest playing any of the LotRO melee classes, like a Champion or Captain, or even the Hunter class. Build Focus/Momentum/whatever to enable use of different abilities. (These kind of situational abilities *will* require more than an 8-10 button hotbar for most people).

It still seem to me that Brad is designing the same game he has designed twice before, only with the help of a thesaurus. Maybe he's hoping that no one will notice.

While the other points are well taken I don't think anyone cares that we are getting something new and unique. And quite frankly, when I played Lord of the Rings Online for the first time I wasn't bowled over by anything that was happening with the classes other than the Warden Class when it came out.

I think people want the same game but with a new setting, slightly updated graphics and UI and an old school sensibility. I know I do. I'm not looking for "new" (because "new" is really seldom ever "new!")

Heck, I reloaded the Vanguard private server (which runs better for me now) and am quite happy with what is going on there. I want world. That's what I want.

I strongly suspect others who want this type of game might be ok with it as well.

Without something new and unique, the "Old School" mentality doesn't grow the genre. Lack of growth in a market segment hurts potential investment. One key to surviving in any market is to have a steady influx of new customers. Marketing to an exclusive marketplace (such as the EQ1/UO/AC group) is a limited strategy compared to other opportunities within the games industry. Limited as far as being Restrictive? I don't know. Larger companies are already shying away from the genre as if it is already dead, leaving it to the smaller independents.

Pantheon and other "nostalgic" based games *might* work. Being okay with an old formula that once worked could possibly draw a sizable population out of their hiding places and back to the genre. That kind of success, one catering to prior MMORPG players, only prolongs the life of the MMORPG as a viable genre. Eventually, the MMORPG genre needs to offer something new to attract new customers. The way forward is always "new customers", not prior and existing customers. Everyone who ever played EQ1 during the prime years of 1999-2004 will eventually be dead and gone. What happens to the MMORPG genre then?

Developing with the idea of "nostalgic veterans as a substantial, cohesive market group" strikes me as a very echo-chamber / ivory tower approach to game design.

DafAtRandom · September 2019

Mendel said:

Sovrath said:

Mendel said:

Before anyone suggests that mechanisms like Momentum are new and unique, may I suggest playing any of the LotRO melee classes, like a Champion or Captain, or even the Hunter class. Build Focus/Momentum/whatever to enable use of different abilities. (These kind of situational abilities *will* require more than an 8-10 button hotbar for most people).

It still seem to me that Brad is designing the same game he has designed twice before, only with the help of a thesaurus. Maybe he's hoping that no one will notice.

While the other points are well taken I don't think anyone cares that we are getting something new and unique. And quite frankly, when I played Lord of the Rings Online for the first time I wasn't bowled over by anything that was happening with the classes other than the Warden Class when it came out.

I think people want the same game but with a new setting, slightly updated graphics and UI and an old school sensibility. I know I do. I'm not looking for "new" (because "new" is really seldom ever "new!")

Heck, I reloaded the Vanguard private server (which runs better for me now) and am quite happy with what is going on there. I want world. That's what I want.

I strongly suspect others who want this type of game might be ok with it as well.

Without something new and unique, the "Old School" mentality doesn't grow the genre. Lack of growth in a market segment hurts potential investment. One key to surviving in any market is to have a steady influx of new customers. Marketing to an exclusive marketplace (such as the EQ1/UO/AC group) is a limited strategy compared to other opportunities within the games industry. Limited as far as being Restrictive? I don't know. Larger companies are already shying away from the genre as if it is already dead, leaving it to the smaller independents.

Pantheon and other "nostalgic" based games *might* work. Being okay with an old formula that once worked could possibly draw a sizable population out of their hiding places and back to the genre. That kind of success, one catering to prior MMORPG players, only prolongs the life of the MMORPG as a viable genre. Eventually, the MMORPG genre needs to offer something new to attract new customers. The way forward is always "new customers", not prior and existing customers. Everyone who ever played EQ1 during the prime years of 1999-2004 will eventually be dead and gone. What happens to the MMORPG genre then?

Developing with the idea of "nostalgic veterans as a substantial, cohesive market group" strikes me as a very echo-chamber / ivory tower approach to game design.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it also is that trends come and go, and then come again in a cycle. No matter how many different flavors of coke they try to sell on us, people always go back to the original, no matter what. It's a trend that's apparent in everything...clothes...haircuts...and video games. There are so many games being created now that focus on pixelated graphics as a throwback...or how many remastered versions of games, MMOs or single player games are we getting almost every month now ?

Yes, original EQ players will die one day...so did original coke drinkers. An end of an era doesn't mean its complete death, though, and while you are right games that innovate (well) will always move the genre forward, there will also always be a segment that either wants to relive the good old days, or see what the good old days were like. They are not mutually exclusive.

Sovrath · September 2019

Mendel said:

Without something new and unique, the "Old School" mentality doesn't grow the genre. Lack of growth in a market segment hurts potential investment. One key to surviving in any market is to have a steady influx of new customers. Marketing to an exclusive marketplace (such as the EQ1/UO/AC group) is a limited strategy compared to other opportunities within the games industry. Limited as far as being Restrictive? I don't know. Larger companies are already shying away from the genre as if it is already dead, leaving it to the smaller independents.

Pantheon and other "nostalgic" based games *might* work. Being okay with an old formula that once worked could possibly draw a sizable population out of their hiding places and back to the genre. That kind of success, one catering to prior MMORPG players, only prolongs the life of the MMORPG as a viable genre. Eventually, the MMORPG genre needs to offer something new to attract new customers. The way forward is always "new customers", not prior and existing customers. Everyone who ever played EQ1 during the prime years of 1999-2004 will eventually be dead and gone. What happens to the MMORPG genre then?

Developing with the idea of "nostalgic veterans as a substantial, cohesive market group" strikes me as a very echo-chamber / ivory tower approach to game design.

But here's the thing (and it goes back to something I've mentioned before) the video game genre is older now and there is a lot more history. A lot more that has "gone before." Like any other type of media, it is starting to have all sorts of interesting eras that can be very attractive to specific groups of people.

So, going to Boston Symphony is very much its own thing. Sure, there are symphonic works being written today but they really don't attract the larger group of people who want to go to the Symphony. Trust me on that.

People who go to the Symphony are looking for music within a certain time period, putting up with some of the more recent works.

Or, if I go to an alloy orchestra performance I know I'm going to get a movie from the 20's or 30's with live accompaniment which is sort of "new'ish."

None of that grows their respective genre as far as pushing things forward in any significant way. What it does is present this material in competent ways, maybe with a bit of freshness here and there, but still very much representative of what it actually is. Then people can discover it and enjoy them on their own terms.

Modern Ballet is still "ballet" and might attract some newer people but it's not going to push it into the spotlight as something bold that everyone will like. It's still ballet.

I think video games are at a point where they can explore older types of games, maybe with some special thing here and there but still keeping them to their roots and specifically to what they are.

Divinity original sin is still a 3d isometric rpg. with a slightly newer coat of paint.

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