Montreal law firms seeks to start class action against Epic Games

Jamar870 · October 2019

Just saw this today. If it goes ahead, it should prove to be and interesting case. https://games.slashdot.org/story/19/10/04/2023242/montreal-law-firm-looks-to-launch-class-action-lawsuit-against-fortnite-developer

Wizardry · October 2019

Actually i would be very surprised if Epic did not warn them.There is usually a long set of paragraphs defining use of the product and warnings and liability.
However i also know that a lot of stuff studio lawyers have written is not LAW and cannot 100% be considered legal.

Example there is always statements of zero liability for everything and includes a very limited liability based only on factual legal terms.

So for any MTL legal firm to try and form a case based on OPINIONS,such as the world health organization's claims not supported by any factual definitive support would not fly.If this was a small firm ,sure they might be able to bully them but there are changing laws to protect firms from that as well.

I just find it very lame by that firm to target Epic when this has been going on for a LOT of years by a LOT of other big studios.Matter of FACT several months ago an article arose that Blizzard has been doing studies and creating code that would MANIPULATE player spending and habits for spending.The fact that Blizzard "claimed"they never intended to use the code is BS,you wouldn't spend time and money doing something you never intended to use.

Point is that if they did any homework Blizzard would be a MUCH easier target.So what i feel is that this is some personal agenda,some lawyers kids are driving their parents crazy because they spend too much time playing Fortnite.This smells of a personal agenda and targeting the most notable in the news business at this current time,so personal and with a money agenda.

TheDarkrayne · October 2019

It's a ridiculous claim. They are saying Epic owes them money because they had fun playing their game.

What's next? Suing your partner because having sex with them releases dopamine to the brain?

The logic behind this claim can be aimed at anything, literally anything, a human can enjoy doing.

Wizardry · October 2019

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/tos

This is the TOS set forth by Epic.

I read a bit,it seems very typical of other TOS i have often read.
I did notice something that would always hold Epic liable and that is the statement that you must consent that the user is of legal age.Well Epic would most certainly understand that a VERY large majority would NOT be of legal age and NOT be bound by any TOS.

If Epic even tried to claim otherwise they would be laughed at by any court/judge.They would also give notice that their word is worthless.

SO also in typical fashion and an ideal that angers me is court cases,law suits typically target children because they are also typically MUCH easier cases to win.

I would also be very skeptical of the binding contract claiming that users must not use court but must resolve issues with Epic themselves.
One of the conditions for a TOS to be upheld is the conditions must be FAIR.Well trying to remove a users rights to use a court of law would NOT be considered fair and only serves to give the business an unfair edge over the user.

Iselin · October 2019

Wizardry said:

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/tos

This is the TOS set forth by Epic.

I read a bit,it seems very typical of other TOS i have often read.
I did notice something that would always hold Epic liable and that is the statement that you must consent that the user is of legal age.Well Epic would most certainly understand that a VERY large majority would NOT be of legal age and NOT be bound by any TOS.

If Epic even tried to claim otherwise they would be laughed at by any court/judge.They would also give notice that their word is worthless.

SO also in typical fashion and an ideal that angers me is court cases,law suits typically target children because they are also typically MUCH easier cases to win.

I would also be very skeptical of the binding contract claiming that users must not use court but must resolve issues with Epic themselves.
One of the conditions for a TOS to be upheld is the conditions must be FAIR.Well trying to remove a users rights to use a court of law would NOT be considered fair and only serves to give the business an unfair edge over the user.

Is this the first time you've heard of the mandatory arbitration clause epidemic in the US?

lahnmir · October 2019

Hey, at least that reason seems more legit and logical than most given here for hating on Epic and their store....

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Vrika · October 2019

I think that's ridiculous.

It would mean we'd need warnings on everything from coins to sailboats.

Iselin · October 2019

Vrika said:

I think that's ridiculous.

It would mean we'd need warnings on everything from coins to sailboats.

I can see a distinction between getting addicted to something not specifically designed to be addictive and something deliberately designed to be so.

I think Epic will throw enough lawyers at this to squash them easily but I hope it gets far enough so we can find out more about the "designed by psychologists to be addictive" part.

I don't particularly care about the outcome one way or the other but I'd love to see more details about that.

Quizzical · October 2019

We should sue the legal system because lawyers might get addicted to the payouts that they get if they win frivolous lawsuits like the one in the original post.

vegetableoil · October 2019

From what I see suing Epic is a waste of time. I would probably use the example exercising also releases dopamine doesn't make people dependent or addicted to exercise as a defense try to counter this if they can if not the case will be thrown out.

Scot · October 2019

TheDarkrayne said:

It's a ridiculous claim. They are saying Epic owes them money because they had fun playing their game.

What's next? Suing your partner because having sex with them releases dopamine to the brain?

The logic behind this claim can be aimed at anything, literally anything, a human can enjoy doing.

But that's the legal system for you, and its biggest flaw. You could get ten claims like this and they get thrown out, then number eleven wins. Suddenly there is a new precedent based on that ruling. If you keep trying sooner or later you can get lucky and the "reality" of what is the legal changes.

Quizzical · October 2019

If this lawsuit or anything like it is successful, then games will come with warning labels warning you that the game might be fun enough to make you want to play it some more. Kind of like those ridiculous Wartune ads, except with a writing style written in legalese rather than clickbait.

vegetableoil · October 2019

Rhoklaw said:

I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.

No one told them to stop eating or sleeping, if company have to be responsible to the time they eat then same could be said that mcdonalds cause obesity, but does mcdonalds as a corporation shove all those burger into people stomach?. People have to be responsible for themselves not companies, people have free will or did they sign their soul to the devil to be a slave? BTW there are lawsuit for it, the judge just threw it out, because he said corporation are not baby sitter. It's a simple common sense.

TEKK3N · October 2019

I am not an Epic fan, but to be honest this is silly.

I propose a class action against parents who are unable to educate their kids.
This has far more chances to be successfull.

fyehu43 · October 2019

TEKK3N said:

I am not an Epic fan, but to be honest this is silly.

I propose a class action against parents who are unable to educate their kids.
This has far more chances to be successfull.

Agree. It is VERY silly. I somehow don't see this type of stuff flying anywhere in Europe only in NA.

BeansnBread · October 2019

fyehu43 said:

TEKK3N said:

I am not an Epic fan, but to be honest this is silly.

I propose a class action against parents who are unable to educate their kids.
This has far more chances to be successfull.

Agree. It is VERY silly. I somehow don't see this type of stuff flying anywhere in Europe only in NA.

Yeah, the EU is immune to stupid lawsuits.

Thane · October 2019

seriously? i call bullshit.
if they are unable to raise their kids propperly, that is not some game's fault..

what's next, sueing the creators of stone floors, because they didn't tell anyone stone can damage the head when smashing on it?

so i guess i better put a warning on my games from now on: "warning: game could be fun!"

krgwynne · October 2019

seriously i can see the court asking 1 thing what were the parents doing, if they did not like what there kids were doing its on them not some game company. i can not see this as a true case it is obviously a fake and if it is not it will be thrown out of court anyway.

[Deleted User] · October 2019

The user and all related content has been deleted.

kjempff · October 2019

vegetableoil said:

From what I see suing Epic is a waste of time. I would probably use the example exercising also releases dopamine doesn't make people dependent or addicted to exercise as a defense try to counter this if they can if not the case will be thrown out.

But. It is a quite well a founded fact that people do get addicted to the dopamine dose they get from exercising. So that would be a bad argument D

Vrika · October 2019

kjempff said:

vegetableoil said:

From what I see suing Epic is a waste of time. I would probably use the example exercising also releases dopamine doesn't make people dependent or addicted to exercise as a defense try to counter this if they can if not the case will be thrown out.

But. It is a quite well a founded fact that people do get addicted to the dopamine dose they get from exercising. So that would be a bad argument D

Yes, you can get addicted to exercising.

But I think the question is, should those exercise equipment have warnings? How about food, should it have warnings? Are people required to attach warning labels to themselves to warn their partners before they engage in sex? Should The Bible have addiction warning printed on it?

Humans can and will get addicted to just about anything that they like. The mechanism for that is built into us. If triggering that mechanism is forbidden without prior warning, you'll have to place that warning into just about anything.

Quizzical · October 2019

Rhoklaw said:

vegetableoil said:

Rhoklaw said:

I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.

No one told them to stop eating or sleeping, if company have to be responsible to the time they eat then same could be said that mcdonalds cause obesity, but does mcdonalds as a corporation shove all those burger into people stomach?. People have to be responsible for themselves not companies, people have free will or did they sign their soul to the devil to be a slave? BTW there are lawsuit for it, the judge just threw it out, because he said corporation are not baby sitter. It's a simple common sense.

No, you apparently don't understand liabilities in the business world. As stupid as it may sound, McDonalds was sued by an elderly woman because SHE spilled coffee on herself. Granted, the coffee may have been excessively hot, but with your single train of thought process, you'd blame the elderly woman because it's not McDonalds fault she wasn't more careful.

Then you have all those pieces of electronics, you know, the ones with warning labels everywhere about being shocked or possibly killed. If companies aren't responsible for what their products are capable of doing, why do they all have warning labels?

Addiction is a medically proven issue among not just a dozen or hundreds of people, but rather millions. Alcohol, drugs, smoking or chewing tobacco, gambling and yes, even gaming. It's a company's responsibility to warn customers of any and all possible side effects of their products.

I get why companies post the stupid warning labels on their products. They're trying to defend themselves against frivolous lawsuits. The McDonald's coffee lawsuit is a famous example of exactly the sort of frivolous lawsuit that occasionally results in a huge payout.

Sometimes, warning labels are entirely appropriate. Sometimes there are non-obvious risks that could cause serious harm. Medicines should tell you how much a dose is so that you don't overdose, and what the known side-effects are, for example.

But warning labels about things that are incandescently obvious to any moron shouldn't be necessary. Do you really think that the woman wouldn't have spilled the coffee if only it had a warning label on it saying that the coffee might be hot?

As a result of the McDonald's lawsuit, I once got a mug that came with a warning label that the contents may be hot. The mug was empty when I got it. And my thought at the time was, someone is going to put liquid nitrogen in it, spill it, and then sue the company that made the mug saying, you didn't warn me that the contents that I put in there myself may be cold.

swarmdie · October 2019

lahnmir said:

Hey, at least that reason seems more legit and logical than most given here for hating on Epic and their store....

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

swarmdie said:

Sir, you made my day. 100% agree.

vegetableoil · October 2019

Rhoklaw said:

vegetableoil said:

Rhoklaw said:

I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.

No one told them to stop eating or sleeping, if company have to be responsible to the time they eat then same could be said that mcdonalds cause obesity, but does mcdonalds as a corporation shove all those burger into people stomach?. People have to be responsible for themselves not companies, people have free will or did they sign their soul to the devil to be a slave? BTW there are lawsuit for it, the judge just threw it out, because he said corporation are not baby sitter. It's a simple common sense.

No, you apparently don't understand liabilities in the business world. As stupid as it may sound, McDonalds was sued by an elderly woman because SHE spilled coffee on herself. Granted, the coffee may have been excessively hot, but with your single train of thought process, you'd blame the elderly woman because it's not McDonalds fault she wasn't more careful.

Then you have all those pieces of electronics, you know, the ones with warning labels everywhere about being shocked or possibly killed. If companies aren't responsible for what their products are capable of doing, why do they all have warning labels?

Addiction is a medically proven issue among not just a dozen or hundreds of people, but rather millions. Alcohol, drugs, smoking or chewing tobacco, gambling and yes, even gaming. It's a company's responsibility to warn customers of any and all possible side effects of their products.

I do that's why I have business insurance, but all the stupid lawsuit also happening in your healthcare system. If the judge allow this kind of stuff to pass, it won't be long before you get a cut in your hand, going the the hospital the bill will be $100000. and games will push for more micro transactions and don't give a rat ass what the good player wants. I know for a fact there are people who sue an rv manufacturer, because they make coffee while the car was driving, the rv manufacturer put cruise control but doesn't explain it in the manual that it's not a self driving cars and the lawsuit is won, but this also explain why companies want to remove truck drivers and replace it with ai robots. May be human intelligence is shrinking every year.

Amathe · October 2019

TheDarkrayne said:

What's next? Suing your partner because having sex with them releases dopamine to the brain?

I'm married, so I lack standing to join such a suit.

phoenixfire2 · October 2019

Rhoklaw said:

I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.

Dying from sleep deprivation while playing a game says more about the deceased individual than the game. I've gamed for 25 years, not always in moderation, but enough moderation for there to be a tomorrow for me. I've never blamed a game because I played it too long. Take responsibility for your own actions, or in the case of minors and excessive gaming; parent better.

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Montreal law firms seeks to start class action against Epic Games

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Montreal law firms seeks to start class action against Epic Games

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