I'm one of those weird people who enjoys Ubisoft's particular brand of open world nonsense. I absolutely get lost in moving across the map from point to point, clearing enemies, looting stuff, etc.
I am also, thankfully, not tempted by any of the microtransaction bs they have been ramping up over the years.
Yes, I see it, I see their games making that slow greedy crawl. I think it's because I dig so deep into their repetitive gameplay loop that I see the grindiness increase and like everyone I see the cash shop get bigger and bigger.
It was most noticeable in the AC:O's. The games were so similar that I noticed a distinct difference from how I was able to upgrade equipment from one game to the other. It didn't really affect me, since I have this internal imperative to kill and collect everything, but I noticed.
I'm enjoying Breakpoint, for my gameplay style it's not even particularly grindy (but yes, it is a grind certainly). What they did in Breakpoint was mishmash a bunch of stuff that is halfbaked all together.
Survival mechanics:
Drink water to restore stamina: I did this about three times before I picked up some stamina perks, once since.
Craft food for buffs: Never used.
Enemy AI: I thought it was worse at the beginning, but it seems to have leveled out to be about the same as their other games.
Falling downhill: Some perks help, crouching helps, but ffs whomever came up with that idea needs to be put out to pasture. Overall mobility/scaling objects downgraded from both Div2 and Wildlands.
Homebase: All alone, surviving a crash, until you get to homebase an hour or so into the game and run into XxXuRmOMMAXxX dancing side to side in front of a quest giver.
Rebels surviving out of a cave. But if you have 45k in-game money you can buy this sweet next gen Comanche attack chopper clone... in 4 different colors.
Yea, you can buy just about anything. They kind of destroyed the whole flavor of the game in favor of the shop. Sorry Ubi, I don't need to buy Skel credits.
Someone talked about at least Ubi listens to their customers, yea they do... their customers' wallets mostly, but they're a little better at listening than some. And they do make changes, I enjoyed the AC:O's better than any of the previous games. But they need a kick in the ass every few years cause that sweet money still drives them.
I'm glad they delayed their next games. I'm not sure how much it will affect their cash shop, but hopefully it will improve the slow slide in gameplay and story I've noticed.
Again, Ubi games are my particular guilty pleasure... and well, they work better than Fallout76. ;p
Well, those faint-heart personalities who rely on third-party opinions and who didn't bought it - lost hundreds of hours of A-class entertainment.
So far (150h+ in a month, more than I got in GR Wildlands in 3 months) my only complaint was - can't stop playing it. Exactly because of the features "community" didn't like - player hub, weapon tiers and levels, lots of cosmetics in the shop (unlocked like 95% of them for free). Free "season pass" is especially good - yet even here whiners complain how it takes time and at the same time has daily limit to prevent spending too much time.
People are sick and tired of having to shell out more and more per game.
After someone spends $50-$60 bucks on a game, it should fricken' end there.
All of these stupid cosmetics and gun packs... I'm sorry, but they can sit there and suck on it.
Today's motto, which has shamefully been adopted, is twice the money and half the game.
I completely agree, totally, 100%. But we all know that ship sailed along time ago. It all started with F2P from the Koreans, and after people were thoroughly exposed and resigned to monetization, that cancer then crept into our paid games of Western games, and the rest is history. There is no turning back for big developers. Its now the foundation of their business model.
Uplay+ has me super stressed out. I have tried everything and cannot cancel my subscription. I am still waiting on support. My sub is due in 2 days lol. I bet anything i will be able to cancel right after i get charged.
People are sick and tired of having to shell out more and more per game.
After someone spends $50-$60 bucks on a game, it should fricken' end there... unless a major expansion is released. All of this petty "gun pack / cosmetic" sass via cash shop is just stupid. It's become the norm now and I haven't spent a dime on any FPS game since 2015.
Sick of it..
You know what is insane.
About 20-30 years ago, games still cost around $60. So in that time, the cost to make a game has skyrocketed but you still want the B2P price to be the same. Doesn't make sense.
I think for a B2P game to really be B2P, they probably need to be over $100 to begin with given the costs that are associated with things now.
Games don't cost 60$. They have not in years. They absolutely cost more. Now you just pay more to get less because they chop the game in pieces to sell it to you as DLC. (This is not always the case, but it is sometimes) The price of game development has not necessarily skyrocketed either as some like to claim. Development tools have actually gotten cheaper because you don't need people to know nearly as much coding (barely any in some cases) as you did back in the day. Now a days you only hire a handful of programmers to make the engine as well as the tools to create content on that engine. Most developers just use in house engines (IE: Crytek, Frostbyte) to create content for games.
Game developers are also making insane profit off MTX as well and no one on the bottom sees that. Most developers don't even hire permanent employees, they are too cheap for that. They hire 6 month contractors.
If you really think that developers / publishers raising video game prices to 100$ would suddenly make DLC / MTX vanish you are sorely mistaken.
People are sick and tired of having to shell out more and more per game.
After someone spends $50-$60 bucks on a game, it should fricken' end there... unless a major expansion is released. All of this petty "gun pack / cosmetic" sass via cash shop is just stupid. It's become the norm now and I haven't spent a dime on any FPS game since 2015.
Sick of it..
You know what is insane.
About 20-30 years ago, games still cost around $60. So in that time, the cost to make a game has skyrocketed but you still want the B2P price to be the same. Doesn't make sense.
I think for a B2P game to really be B2P, they probably need to be over $100 to begin with given the costs that are associated with things now.
Not true. The cost to make games has not increased all that much. It all depends on who you hire. Go to any 3D shop. Look at their rates to create 3D models etc. Extremely cheap. In fact, most textures these days come from Quixel, which is a low-sub website for AAA models / PBR textures.
Moreover, back in the day, we didn't have nearly as many people buying titles.
You obviously don’t know a dang thing. “The cost hasn’t went up”. I don’t care if I get banned, this is pure ignorance.
Playstation 2 games cost 2-3 million on average to make back in the day, that gets you an iPhone game these days. Costs have skyrocketed, and going from physical to digital saves you a dollar per product, 2 if you’re generous. Just enough to make up for inflation correction.
Sales meanwhile haven’t gone up nearly as much as costs, not even half as much actually. But F2P and regular 50% off sales have taught the masses that anything above 60 dollars is expensive, when in reality a 60 dollar game is very cheap considering the state of the industry.
Money earned meanwhile isn’t just to cover coats and pay that filthy CEO, it is also meant for expanding, future products or, worst case scenario, a flop. Especially the latter has made many studios close up shop, how do you recover from a 70+ million dollar sales disaster?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
People are sick and tired of having to shell out more and more per game.
After someone spends $50-$60 bucks on a game, it should fricken' end there... unless a major expansion is released. All of this petty "gun pack / cosmetic" sass via cash shop is just stupid. It's become the norm now and I haven't spent a dime on any FPS game since 2015.
Sick of it..
You know what is insane.
About 20-30 years ago, games still cost around $60. So in that time, the cost to make a game has skyrocketed but you still want the B2P price to be the same. Doesn't make sense.
I think for a B2P game to really be B2P, they probably need to be over $100 to begin with given the costs that are associated with things now.
Games don't cost 60$. They have not in years. They absolutely cost more. Now you just pay more to get less because they chop the game in pieces to sell it to you as DLC. (This is not always the case, but it is sometimes) The price of game development has not necessarily skyrocketed either as some like to claim. Development tools have actually gotten cheaper because you don't need people to know nearly as much coding (barely any in some cases) as you did back in the day. Now a days you only hire a handful of programmers to make the engine as well as the tools to create content on that engine. Most developers just use in house engines (IE: Crytek, Frostbyte) to create content for games.
Game developers are also making insane profit off MTX as well and no one on the bottom sees that. Most developers don't even hire permanent employees, they are too cheap for that. They hire 6 month contractors.
If you really think that developers / publishers raising video game prices to 100$ would suddenly make DLC / MTX vanish you are sorely mistaken.
Witcher 3 had 250 inhouse people working on it, 1500 were involved globally with its production. Assassins Creed Odyssey had ten STUDIOS working on it. By comparison, Westwood Studios for example had 50 people total and the entire Origin Systems was made up of about 300 people across several teams and games. Less people involved nowadays? How do people come up with this stuff?....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Post edited by lahnmir on
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
When CEO's of tripple A studios get payed the same as their developers would be paied working for them for 3 lifetimes. Greed is why it cost to make video games, and too much greed ruins tripple A games.
There are so many whales in the game industry that its sickening, and devs are usually workes too hard again and again at the cost of this greed, there is few developers over the age of 30 in the industry, because studios burn through their developers like burning grass. Crunch time, unpaid overtime, no health care .. it does not cost more to make another fifa game.
I'm kind of unique in my position that I think most CEO pay is completely and utterly justified when looking at the big picture.
The problem is, the tax system is ridiculous, instead of lowering taxes for corporations from 35% to whatever it is now and then saying "trickle down BS".
Tax should have changed to the following:
Tax on corp from 35% down to 28%. (28%-whatever it is now) of revenue gets split among non C-suite employees. That's built in trickle down economics not the BS that was proposed earlier.
overall, I think many CEO salaries are justified and the problem isn't the CEO salary, it's the stupid tax system. The CEO salary a lot of times is microscopic compared to the total revenue.
Not to be a kommunist, but when a single person gets payed over 10 million $ a year, it isnt and has never been justified. And just letting them get away with it because its really good to know that you could also become the guy on the top one day. Still isnt justifiable.
One other issue that is affecting game development and revenue lately is the fact that publishers don't know what the hell to make right now because gamers don't know what the hell they actually want. If you listen to the people who voice their opinions online, they want single-player games, with lots to do, but open worlds are getting samey, and not too short, and make sure the story is awesome and voice talent is great, and don't worry about multiplayer I won't play it. Oh the final product is only 13 hours long with no replay value? I'll just wait a year until it's $20.
Then the Most Played games on every platform for months on end are the likes of Fortnight, Apex Legends, Rainbow Six Siege, and Destiny 2. So they make a multiplayer game that offers a twist on what these other games do...and get utterly rejected by players. Or was it by streamers, which influence players? Who the hell even knows anymore.
We got a few million left and won't make payroll in 6 months, how about a mobile game with microtransaction boosts everywhere? Studio saved! Mobile it is, folks!
… … …
And also there is just so much entertainment out there competing for our limited free time, we just can't play through a 40-hour Assassin's Creed game every year. Growth isn't endless but the gaming industry has been going for some time now like it will be.
Ghost Recon, call of Duty, The Division, Rainbow Six, etc.. all are the SAME things. People will go for cheapest and most populated.
3rd person looter shooter, 3rd person tactical shooter, and first person action shooter are the same thing? I don't think you've ever seen gameplay from any of these titles babe.
People are sick and tired of having to shell out more and more per game.
After someone spends $50-$60 bucks on a game, it should fricken' end there... unless a major expansion is released. All of this petty "gun pack / cosmetic" sass via cash shop is just stupid. It's become the norm now and I haven't spent a dime on any FPS game since 2015.
Sick of it..
You know what is insane.
About 20-30 years ago, games still cost around $60. So in that time, the cost to make a game has skyrocketed but you still want the B2P price to be the same. Doesn't make sense.
I think for a B2P game to really be B2P, they probably need to be over $100 to begin with given the costs that are associated with things now.
Games don't cost 60$. They have not in years. They absolutely cost more. Now you just pay more to get less because they chop the game in pieces to sell it to you as DLC. (This is not always the case, but it is sometimes) The price of game development has not necessarily skyrocketed either as some like to claim. Development tools have actually gotten cheaper because you don't need people to know nearly as much coding (barely any in some cases) as you did back in the day. Now a days you only hire a handful of programmers to make the engine as well as the tools to create content on that engine. Most developers just use in house engines (IE: Crytek, Frostbyte) to create content for games.
Game developers are also making insane profit off MTX as well and no one on the bottom sees that. Most developers don't even hire permanent employees, they are too cheap for that. They hire 6 month contractors.
If you really think that developers / publishers raising video game prices to 100$ would suddenly make DLC / MTX vanish you are sorely mistaken.
Witcher 3 had 250 inhouse people working on it, 1500 were involved globally with its production. Assassins Creed Odyssey had ten STUDIOS working on it. By comparison, Westwood Studios for example had 50 people total and the entire Origin Systems was made up of about 300 people across several teams and games. Less people involved nowadays? How do people come up with this stuff?....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
And alot of that was also marketing. Marketing teams didn't even exist for most games back in the day. An expense that is not really necessary. (Things like big cgi cinematic for example, can take years to create from concept -> release)
I really enjoy Ubisoft games, but I'm glad they are understanding why certain games, especially their sequels aren't taking off. Break point is fun, but I do wonder why it wasn't just tacked on to Wildlands as a major expansion overhaul instead at a $40 price point. I think it would have gone over better.
A game like For Honor is another example, it didn't do well at first but now it's got quite a playerbase and a heap ton of content and a fairly competitive player base, but this is a good 3 years after launch.
I'm thinking this whole games as a service, which I do enjoy and seems to be influenced by our own favorite genre here on this site, MMORPGs, is still a new area for many developers and game designers. It seems to be a tricky entity to handle as one must balance content, development time, lore, cost and pricing and deliver on an even cadence that doesn't alienate the playerbase. I think FFXIV comes close, with it's once every 3 to 4 month content cadence, but some tweaks here and there are going to be needed, depending on the game type.
When CEO's of tripple A studios get payed the same as their developers would be paied working for them for 3 lifetimes. Greed is why it cost to make video games, and too much greed ruins tripple A games.
There are so many whales in the game industry that its sickening, and devs are usually workes too hard again and again at the cost of this greed, there is few developers over the age of 30 in the industry, because studios burn through their developers like burning grass. Crunch time, unpaid overtime, no health care .. it does not cost more to make another fifa game.
Those are my first concerns when I see a new game too.
>Oh! How much is the devs makings in comparison to the CEO. >Do they have good health care?
I just want to play good games. Don't give a crap about how much they get paid or their healthcare. wtflol
Games don’t cost more then 20 years ago to make, you live on Jupiter? Last I checked ( I own my own business) I could never pay me employees the same rate as I payed in 1999. They would either quit, start laughing like I was joking or working for me was there hobby. Of course the cost have gone up. It’s simple inflation. That’s the same as saying “ today movies are way less to make” I mean the camera are way more higher tech the use of digital film instead traditional film or 9mm film. Or it’s cheaper today to make food then 1999. New tech in the agricultural field trucks and machines use way less gas and are more efficient. You sound like your young, that’s not a bad thing. But the price of EVERYTHING from 20 yrs ago has gone up. The games price stayed the same. Yes you mentioned you spend more as they time goes by. That maybe true. But you get more content live support constant updates. That’s the gaming market today. 20 yrs ago you purchase game beat game trade in game. Now heck most these games have hundreds of hour of content added after release. Running servers coding new content updating games after release, cost the company more money more time. Celcius said:
People are sick and tired of having to shell out more and more per game.
After someone spends $50-$60 bucks on a game, it should fricken' end there... unless a major expansion is released. All of this petty "gun pack / cosmetic" sass via cash shop is just stupid. It's become the norm now and I haven't spent a dime on any FPS game since 2015.
Sick of it..
You know what is insane.
About 20-30 years ago, games still cost around $60. So in that time, the cost to make a game has skyrocketed but you still want the B2P price to be the same. Doesn't make sense.
I think for a B2P game to really be B2P, they probably need to be over $100 to begin with given the costs that are associated with things now.
Games don't cost 60$. They have not in years. They absolutely cost more. Now you just pay more to get less because they chop the game in pieces to sell it to you as DLC. (This is not always the case, but it is sometimes) The price of game development has not necessarily skyrocketed either as some like to claim. Development tools have actually gotten cheaper because you don't need people to know nearly as much coding (barely any in some cases) as you did back in the day. Now a days you only hire a handful of programmers to make the engine as well as the tools to create content on that engine. Most developers just use in house engines (IE: Crytek, Frostbyte) to create content for games.
Game developers are also making insane profit off MTX as well and no one on the bottom sees that. Most developers don't even hire permanent employees, they are too cheap for that. They hire 6 month contractors.
If you really think that developers / publishers raising video game prices to 100$ would suddenly make DLC / MTX vanish you are sorely mistaken.
Witcher 3 had 250 inhouse people working on it, 1500 were involved globally with its production. Assassins Creed Odyssey had ten STUDIOS working on it. By comparison, Westwood Studios for example had 50 people total and the entire Origin Systems was made up of about 300 people across several teams and games. Less people involved nowadays? How do people come up with this stuff?....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
And alot of that was also marketing. Marketing teams didn't even exist for most games back in the day. An expense that is not really necessary. (Things like big cgi cinematic for example, can take years to create from concept -> release)
When CEO's of tripple A studios get payed the same as their developers would be paied working for them for 3 lifetimes. Greed is why it cost to make video games, and too much greed ruins tripple A games.
There are so many whales in the game industry that its sickening, and devs are usually workes too hard again and again at the cost of this greed, there is few developers over the age of 30 in the industry, because studios burn through their developers like burning grass. Crunch time, unpaid overtime, no health care .. it does not cost more to make another fifa game.
Those are my first concerns when I see a new game too.
>Oh! How much is the devs makings in comparison to the CEO. >Do they have good health care?
I just want to play good games. Don't give a crap about how much they get paid or their healthcare. wtflol
So if devs where treated better and games wouldnt be over influenced by greedy publishers you think games wouldnt be better? I strongly doubt that a room full of game designers who want to make a great game, sat in a room and was wondering what was missing in their game, and came up with loot boxes or a cash shop.
Did they not say the same about the AC franchise.... So learning from past mistakes is not a big thing i guess... But on the plus side the AC games since have been pretty good. So maybe this is a good thing.
AC: Odyssey is a great game I play to this day. I love it. It basically is one of those games i never uninstall from the PC. Kinda like Witcher 3.
When CEO's of tripple A studios get payed the same as their developers would be paied working for them for 3 lifetimes. Greed is why it cost to make video games, and too much greed ruins tripple A games.
There are so many whales in the game industry that its sickening, and devs are usually workes too hard again and again at the cost of this greed, there is few developers over the age of 30 in the industry, because studios burn through their developers like burning grass. Crunch time, unpaid overtime, no health care .. it does not cost more to make another fifa game.
Those are my first concerns when I see a new game too.
>Oh! How much is the devs makings in comparison to the CEO. >Do they have good health care?
I just want to play good games. Don't give a crap about how much they get paid or their healthcare. wtflol
So if devs where treated better and games wouldnt be over influenced by greedy publishers you think games wouldnt be better? I strongly doubt that a room full of game designers who want to make a great game, sat in a room and was wondering what was missing in their game, and came up with loot boxes or a cash shop.
We know they are not. There is a great show on YouTube called, "Wha Happend?" In the show the host details what went wrong with a game that should have been a hit. %80 of the time its the higher ups who went to the devs and said, "Add this and take this out." Its pretty crazy how much people who know nothing about game design get involved.
I would highly advise watching one of those episodes. The Dead Space 3 one was by far the craziest. How much EA was involved of any decision and telling the actual game devs no on just about everything they said. I mean in it the dev states, "We couldn't just tell EA no we are doing this instead and not your dumb idea because that would have meant our game being cancelled and all of us out of a job."
Never hear about this show, I will check it out, thanks )
Comments
So far (150h+ in a month, more than I got in GR Wildlands in 3 months) my only complaint was - can't stop playing it. Exactly because of the features "community" didn't like - player hub, weapon tiers and levels, lots of cosmetics in the shop (unlocked like 95% of them for free). Free "season pass" is especially good - yet even here whiners complain how it takes time and at the same time has daily limit to prevent spending too much time.
Thank you for your time!
Games don't cost 60$. They have not in years. They absolutely cost more. Now you just pay more to get less because they chop the game in pieces to sell it to you as DLC. (This is not always the case, but it is sometimes) The price of game development has not necessarily skyrocketed either as some like to claim. Development tools have actually gotten cheaper because you don't need people to know nearly as much coding (barely any in some cases) as you did back in the day. Now a days you only hire a handful of programmers to make the engine as well as the tools to create content on that engine. Most developers just use in house engines (IE: Crytek, Frostbyte) to create content for games.
Game developers are also making insane profit off MTX as well and no one on the bottom sees that. Most developers don't even hire permanent employees, they are too cheap for that. They hire 6 month contractors.
If you really think that developers / publishers raising video game prices to 100$ would suddenly make DLC / MTX vanish you are sorely mistaken.
Money earned meanwhile isn’t just to cover coats and pay that filthy CEO, it is also meant for expanding, future products or, worst case scenario, a flop. Especially the latter has made many studios close up shop, how do you recover from a 70+ million dollar sales disaster?
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Assassins Creed Odyssey had ten STUDIOS working on it. By comparison, Westwood Studios for example had 50 people total and the entire Origin Systems was made up of about 300 people across several teams and games. Less people involved nowadays? How do people come up with this stuff?....
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Not to be a kommunist, but when a single person gets payed over 10 million $ a year, it isnt and has never been justified. And just letting them get away with it because its really good to know that you could also become the guy on the top one day. Still isnt justifiable.
Then the Most Played games on every platform for months on end are the likes of Fortnight, Apex Legends, Rainbow Six Siege, and Destiny 2. So they make a multiplayer game that offers a twist on what these other games do...and get utterly rejected by players. Or was it by streamers, which influence players? Who the hell even knows anymore.
We got a few million left and won't make payroll in 6 months, how about a mobile game with microtransaction boosts everywhere? Studio saved! Mobile it is, folks!
… … …
And also there is just so much entertainment out there competing for our limited free time, we just can't play through a 40-hour Assassin's Creed game every year. Growth isn't endless but the gaming industry has been going for some time now like it will be.
3rd person looter shooter, 3rd person tactical shooter, and first person action shooter are the same thing? I don't think you've ever seen gameplay from any of these titles babe.
A game like For Honor is another example, it didn't do well at first but now it's got quite a playerbase and a heap ton of content and a fairly competitive player base, but this is a good 3 years after launch.
I'm thinking this whole games as a service, which I do enjoy and seems to be influenced by our own favorite genre here on this site, MMORPGs, is still a new area for many developers and game designers. It seems to be a tricky entity to handle as one must balance content, development time, lore, cost and pricing and deliver on an even cadence that doesn't alienate the playerbase. I think FFXIV comes close, with it's once every 3 to 4 month content cadence, but some tweaks here and there are going to be needed, depending on the game type.
>Oh! How much is the devs makings in comparison to the CEO.
>Do they have good health care?
I just want to play good games. Don't give a crap about how much they get paid or their healthcare. wtflol
AC: Odyssey is a great game I play to this day. I love it. It basically is one of those games i never uninstall from the PC. Kinda like Witcher 3.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!