Funnily enough the only member of that cast that has mentioned the game in the last few years is Mark Hamil and it must be fading away for him because he couldn't even get the name right, calling it Squadron 54 instead of Squadron 42.
rpmcmurphy said: these guys would try and have you believe that a game 8 years in development at the cost of over $300 million with more than 500 people working on it, is still just fine being an alpha.
...ehm, what is your basis for thinking it isn't?
Every other game released with a fraction of the budget, fraction of the time and fraction of the devs...
So pretty much EVERY VIDEO GAME released EVER.
But this isn't just your ordinary every day game, now is it? Clearly Mr. Roberts knows no bounds when it comes to gaming innovation! He won't stop till he figures out a way to implement some TRON level virtual reality shit.
It is still a game. It is not a movie where they pay actors big bucks.
2 games actually, seems Squadron 42 always gets forgoten and yes, there are big actors involved.
In fact, it has probably the biggest and most awarded cast ever involved a video-game.
Of course it gets forgotten. I watched the Citizencon livestream and I was shocked to not hear a word about this game. Remember the Squadron 42 logo with the year 2016 on it from Citizencon 2015? I thought it was announced to launch in 2016 then. This game should have been their main focus at least in communication. Do the backers have at least a launch date for this title?
Remember folks, these guys would try and have you believe that a game 8 years in development at the cost of over $300 million with more than 500 people working on it, is still just fine being an alpha.
They would also have you believe that this alpha has more content than other AAA games, although for some odd reason they never do get around to naming these other games.
As an Elite:Dangerous fanboy you should be aware of how difficult it is to do the game that is Star Citizen, specialy considering that most of the features it already has are still just a pipedream for Elite.
Also, the fact that despite all these years no other game comes close to provide the gameplay of Star Citizen has right now. That alone should be enough to any disbeliever or hater but ofc you would need a little bit of insight and know how about game development.
I guess all these threads show is that most posters dont care about technicalities or game development per se and all the ignorant venting just fades away as reality set's in. Still worth to revisit this in a year or two.
I'm not an ED player nor an ED expert but I do know that ED's been successfully aiming for a much broader audience and that comes with compromises. I mean the game can be played on an old $150 hardware, an XBox One. It's also available on any PS4 including the 2013 version. It not only runs on low end hardware but the game itself has been very affordable too with frequent sales. Right now it's on sale for 10€ on the Playstation store and the Steam version is less than 7€. Let's not judge the publisher for not spending hundreds of millions on endless development then... They've been doing alright on various platforms and with users on even low end hardware. Apparently they have different priorities and we can't really blame them for that.
Elite is anything but "aiming for a much broader audience". In fact, it released in such a bare state that it failed to pick up pace even after releasing it's expansion at the same price as the base game. It most likely had to turn into console market to make up for the losses. Same reason why it had to go to steam and accept a 30% cut in the profit share as well as a huge discount in price.
And they are also spending millions in it's endless development, games like this are never finished, they are always improoved and updated. We never know how much better or worse would it be if they had posponed the game to acomodate a more ambitious vision from the get go.
As for now it's quite straighforward to observe which game people still care enough to engage with
Remember folks, these guys would try and have you believe that a game 8 years in development at the cost of over $300 million with more than 500 people working on it, is still just fine being an alpha.
They would also have you believe that this alpha has more content than other AAA games, although for some odd reason they never do get around to naming these other games.
As an Elite:Dangerous fanboy you should be aware of how difficult it is to do the game that is Star Citizen, specialy considering that most of the features it already has are still just a pipedream for Elite.
Also, the fact that despite all these years no other game comes close to provide the gameplay of Star Citizen has right now. That alone should be enough to any disbeliever or hater but ofc you would need a little bit of insight and know how about game development.
I guess all these threads show is that most posters dont care about technicalities or game development per se and all the ignorant venting just fades away as reality set's in. Still worth to revisit this in a year or two.
I'm not an ED player nor an ED expert but I do know that ED's been successfully aiming for a much broader audience and that comes with compromises. I mean the game can be played on an old $150 hardware, an XBox One. It's also available on any PS4 including the 2013 version. It not only runs on low end hardware but the game itself has been very affordable too with frequent sales. Right now it's on sale for 10€ on the Playstation store and the Steam version is less than 7€. Let's not judge the publisher for not spending hundreds of millions on endless development then... They've been doing alright on various platforms and with users on even low end hardware. Apparently they have different priorities and we can't really blame them for that.
Elite is anything but "aiming for a much broader audience". I r in such a bare state that it failed to pick up pace even after releasing it's expansion at the same price as the base game. It most likely had to turn into console market to make up for the losses. Same reason why it had to go to steam and accept a 30% cut in the profit share as well as a huge discount in price.
And they are also spending millions in it's endless development, games like this are never finished, they are always improoved and updated. We never know how much better or worse would it be if they had posponed the game to acomodate a more ambitious vision from the get go.
As for now it's quite straighforward to observe which game people still care enough to engage with
Every other game released with a fraction of the budget, fraction of the time and fraction of the devs...
So pretty much EVERY VIDEO GAME released EVER.
SWTOR, Destiny, GTA V, CODMW2....
AAA games are expensive shit.
SC has surpassed all of those in pre launch budget; and by the way a majority of the money for those games pre-launch went into marketing, not development.
If SC had ratios similar to a 'traditional AAA' it would currently be at a budget of something like $1B.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I think I have the answer to if Star Citizen backers are delusional
I think your response ilustrates my stance perfectly. Game development is not for everyone and that's ok.
Thats where you are wrong though. I have backed every game that is currently in devolpment.... Now I don't play the game ...
That's the general problem of crowdfunding. Spending money is easy for everyone and anyone, but making the effort to learn enough to make a conscious, rational decision whille having the maturity to deal with it it's another thing
But the most grossest mistake is not knowning what you're getting into but not being willing to learn/understand the why and focus solely on finding the blame in others.
That's why, despite many of the haters and cynics of Star Citizen being prooved wrong along the years, very few of them have the maturity and humbleness to come forward and accept they were wrong.
You're not getting it. What You, Me or anyone else does/posts in random or thinks it's irrelevant to the game's development.
Crowdfunding doesnteam you're entitled to anything, no, not even a product. You're backing an idea that could or could not come into fruition.
Sure you back a lot of games but you're acting like you're preordering them. You splash money upfront while neglecting all benefits and (for me) obligations of open development (testing early builds) while tunel-focusing on release dates alone.
If you followed Star Citizen and tested what's available we wouldn't even have this debate.
I told you guys years ago this was a scam. Few replied for fear of the fanboys. Now I see a lot of you finally see it for what it is. This will go down as the biggest scam in gaming.
Elite is anything but "aiming for a much broader audience". In fact, it released in such a bare state that it failed to pick up pace even after releasing it's expansion at the same price as the base game. It most likely had to turn into console market to make up for the losses. Same reason why it had to go to steam and accept a 30% cut in the profit share as well as a huge discount in price.
And they are also spending millions in it's endless development, games like this are never finished, they are always improoved and updated. We never know how much better or worse would it be if they had posponed the game to acomodate a more ambitious vision from the get go.
As for now it's quite straighforward to observe which game people still care enough to engage with
Haha, damn you are such a troll, no wonder nobody believes a word you say.
Frontier told their kickstarter backers the game would release 2 years after the kickstarter and that was a promise they held themselves to.
If you make a game in 2 years it is bound to have shortcomings at release. But consier this, if CIG had held up their end of the deal and delivered 2 years after their kickstarter, all you would have got would have been a buggy 8 player Arena Commander. And you have the gall to say other companies were doing a bad job...
Somehow selling over 3 million copies of the base game and over 1.5 million copies of the expansion is a game not picking up pace....
Again you obviously only come onto this Star Citizen posts to defend the game because you know nothing about me obviously. I have been very vocal about believing that crowdfunding is not the same as pre-ordering. IF Pantheon or any other game that I had backed was canned tomorrow I wouldn't be hurt or mad at all. The thing that makes me so heated about Star Citizen is how much they have raised and how many delays there are.
The other games I have backed would love to have half the money Star Citizen does. Heck they wouldn't complain about a quarter of it. Yet after all that money raised, all the work you claim they have done but haven't gotten any examples, and after all the delays we still have no release date in site. Nothing. Not even for there single player game that they are funding with the money that they get from the MMO.
Yet people aren't angry about that. As I said on the first page of this thread. I find it out that Star Citizen gets a pass with everything they have done when other crowdfunded MMO's go through the ringer for what they did to mine and your money. Thankfully I only put $60 towards the game years ago so its no thing for me. Doesn't mean I can't be mad about these shady business practices.
Again, missing the point missing the point
No one is defending anything but showcasing the general ignorance about basic base development, crowdfunding and Star Citizen as a project. As a backer and "whiteknight" I'm the first to say "stay the f**k away" of this game if you're looking for a polished and finished experience.
Claiming that you complain about the money they raised AND delays showcases just that. Because one exists because of the other. People keep backing the game at the lenght they do because they see and play the results of such effort.
Random joes getting mad about games are irrelevant. Just that. Irrelevant angry gamers who know no better than complaining.
Again you obviously only come onto this Star Citizen posts to defend the game because you know nothing about me obviously. I have been very vocal about believing that crowdfunding is not the same as pre-ordering. IF Pantheon or any other game that I had backed was canned tomorrow I wouldn't be hurt or mad at all. The thing that makes me so heated about Star Citizen is how much they have raised and how many delays there are.
The other games I have backed would love to have half the money Star Citizen does. Heck they wouldn't complain about a quarter of it. Yet after all that money raised, all the work you claim they have done but haven't gotten any examples, and after all the delays we still have no release date in site. Nothing. Not even for there single player game that they are funding with the money that they get from the MMO.
Yet people aren't angry about that. As I said on the first page of this thread. I find it out that Star Citizen gets a pass with everything they have done when other crowdfunded MMO's go through the ringer for what they did to mine and your money. Thankfully I only put $60 towards the game years ago so its no thing for me. Doesn't mean I can't be mad about these shady business practices.
Again, missing the point missing the point
No one is defending anything but showcasing the general ignorance about basic base development, crowdfunding and Star Citizen as a project. As a backer and "whiteknight" I'm the first to say "stay the f**k away" of this game if you're looking for a polished and finished experience.
Claiming that you complain about the money they raised AND delays showcases just that. Because one exists because of the other. People keep backing the game at the lenght they do because they see and play the results of such effort.
Random joes getting mad about games are irrelevant. Just that. Irrelevant angry gamers who know no better than complaining.
You're making sweeping generalizations about who is ignorant, and what they're ignorant about.
You then dismiss them as "random joes" as though you could possibly know their experience in the industry, without actually demonstrating that you have any awareness yourself.
At the surface, for example, people might say that anyone supporting this game seem to be suckers for the taking since this has all of the earmarks of a near-vaporware/promiseware exit with very high parity with a ponzi scam, and has ever since deadline after deadline was flat out missed, and rather than "fully exiting" the doubling down onto a 2nd game (when a first game wasn't complete?) was a proof of something other than incompetency.
They have had a well-documented history of overpromising and underdelivering, and their excuse has been that they were somehow "future proofing" or "expanding" a game that couldn't meet current standards.
See the latest general dismissiveness of RTX support, for example. They cannot promise it because that would be yet another reset of the pipeline, so they're flat out dismissing it. Fine, but to say "it would be a subtle improvement" is laughable at best, and will be a comment that haunts them if they release something in 2020/2021 that looks like it belongs in 2016.
I don't really feel sorry for anyone involved, nor do I blame anyone for wishful thinking. But you make this drivel party relevant to me when you start to question opinions that are clearly vastly more informed than yours, from someone working inside the industry on AAA games that have published and sold rather well.
Do you know how much an AAA game costs today versus 6 years ago? God of War 3 cost $44 million. How much do you think God of War 2018 cost?
How much of the funding of Star Citizen do you think would be attributable to actual development costs, and how many towards Roberts' wanting to produce films, for example?
What's really borderline indicative of a mental disorder is how this can be defended from purely a technical or practical standpoint. You would clearly not have some combination of a) any sense of exactly what goes into developing things at this scale with this budget or b) any sense of relativity, where other products with tighter timelines and smaller budgets have yielded far more result.
Are you stating that Star Citizen / Squadron in their current state warrant the cash and time they've taken, versus, say, any of the top games of the past few years that were developed in a fraction of the time and budget, within a predictable launch window?
If Star Citizen releases the same day as Cyberpunk, will you think it's equally impressive as a game that cost a fraction of the amount and developed in less time?
What Star Citizen resembles the most (barring any sort of consideration to other exit/ponzi pay scheme scams that plague MMOs) is something like Anthem or Fable, where the released product was a tiny fraction of the promise, and then the stories of botched studio politics, missed tech gap deadlines and sideways production chains always seem to come out at the end. Just like past employees relevant to SC have to offer.
The bottomline is, if you take the actual development timeline and structure, there is basically no way that this game could possibly be impressive at launch from a tech standpoint. Whatever impressive qualities it had in the distant past, their own timetables do not support anything that would resemble current gen standards, nevermind when it actually releases.
And that isn't an opinion, that's a simple calculation based on where it is now versus the time it took to get here.
And as I've maintained since the beginning, I'm not going to be "lesser fan / ignorant gamer pleb shamed" because they've had enough money to complete the game years ago, but didn't because they could profit more from selling spaceships to people.
I will be one of the first paying customers once it releases and peers and game review sites that I trust give their review. I don't need to make any sort of wager or generalization about the game to feel better about my experience in the industry nor belittle anyone for what amounts to sunk costs rationalizing their overgeneralizations.
It would be interesting to have a nifty little stat readout next to posters that showed the amount of time they've spent developing software, and amount of money / time / attention they've sunk into Star Citizen et al. Anyone have any wagers on how those opinions would skew?
It’s clear some of the money was stolen along the way... regardless of when the game is released.
Actually forbes has documentation of it, if I'm not mistaken they develop the game in cryengine in 2012 and then scrap everything 2016 and move it to lumberyard because cryengine is bad for multiplayer games "Looks pretty but shit for multiplayer" 4 years development money down to the toilet The closest thing for Star citizen having "diarrhea", later they get sued by crytek because when migrating they use some of the assets from cryengine, more money down the toilet. I don't think this is the end.
Jeez, at least do your homework before posting. Lumberyard IS CryEngine, just modded by Amazon and hosted by them for scalability. The port was done in a few weeks... it was certainly not a scrap everything move. They did it because Crytek looked financially unstable.
Having said that, is Roberts' focus screwed and is he wasting money... definitely... huge attention on details no one cares about like the physics of liquid in a cup (seriously.. and it still looks shit!).
You're not getting it. What You, Me or anyone else does/posts in random or thinks it's irrelevant to the game's development.
Crowdfunding doesnteam you're entitled to anything, no, not even a product. You're backing an idea that could or could not come into fruition.
Sure you back a lot of games but you're acting like you're preordering them. You splash money upfront while neglecting all benefits and (for me) obligations of open development (testing early builds) while tunel-focusing on release dates alone.
If you followed Star Citizen and tested what's available we wouldn't even have this debate.
Again you obviously only come onto this Star Citizen posts to defend the game because you know nothing about me obviously. I have been very vocal about believing that crowdfunding is not the same as pre-ordering. IF Pantheon or any other game that I had backed was canned tomorrow I wouldn't be hurt or mad at all. The thing that makes me so heated about Star Citizen is how much they have raised and how many delays there are.
The other games I have backed would love to have half the money Star Citizen does. Heck they wouldn't complain about a quarter of it. Yet after all that money raised, all the work you claim they have done but haven't gotten any examples, and after all the delays we still have no release date in site. Nothing. Not even for there single player game that they are funding with the money that they get from the MMO.
Yet people aren't angry about that. As I said on the first page of this thread. I find it out that Star Citizen gets a pass with everything they have done when other crowdfunded MMO's go through the ringer for what they did to mine and your money. Thankfully I only put $60 towards the game years ago so its no thing for me. Doesn't mean I can't be mad about these shady business practices.
Some would have loved 1% of the financial success SC has enjoyed.
Guild Software developed Vendetta Online, a game which accurately modeled Newtonian torque, thrust, and variable mass in a space MMO environment ten years before SC's Kickstarter. It managed to hit a number of firsts, including the first MMO to run seamlessly cross-platform between Android and Win/Mac/Linux, and the first MMO to support the Oculus Rift. It's still going, you can play it in VR now.
Pre-launch budget: shoestring (probably around $100k).
I-Novae Studios demoed seamless space-to-planet-surface transitions half a decade before SC would accomplish a similar feat. This later morphed into Infinity: Battlescape, which is currently in Early Access on Steam and looks to be providing some epic space battles.
Pre-launch budget: shoestring ($332k).
Star Citizen, 7 years, $250 million, and a dozen shell companies later:
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
So you see the problem then cause you just admitted it yourself.
"Money they raised and delays showcases just that. One exists because of the other."
If thats the case the game won't come out until the money well dries up and nobody trusts the game to put money into it anymore and by that point they will be lucky to have a few thousand people when the game launches. At a certain point they need to sit back and say we need to launch and these are the features we need. You keep playing your alpha though and looking forward to a future that is never going to come.
Doesn't matter if you pre-ordered a game or not. The problem is they took 250 million dollars of peoples money for a game that will never release and you basically said the same. Just sucks that some people won't be able to see that in time. When the time comes that you flip the script and start complaining about Star Citizen I would just not do it here. People love blood in the water and with how much you have defended this game no one is going to care.
Just ask DMKano. People still don't let him live down that he defended Archage for so long after he flipped the script
What problem is there really besides your own? They have the means to create the game they want so they are doing it, there is no problem except in some heads that are utterly irrelevant.
That you or anyone for that matter decides that they are feeling restless because it's taking "too long", "costing too much" or it's not going "into the direction I hoped for" is not a problem in the development, but on your own self. The game is being developed nicely at it's own pace and uninformed random people's opinion are just that.
They didn't "took 250 million dollars of peoples money for a game", people have continuously giving them that money for 7 years straight because they like what they are producing. It's really very straightforward, CIG are delivering a product that people like enough that they keep coming back so it continuously fund's itself. The only ones who seem to have a problem with that are outsiders that can't or haven't gotten to the trouble of understand what the product already is and where it's heading.
Anyone who's preaching doom or seeing "problems" clearly hasn't been paying attention to the project development's and it's growth, both financially and in player engagement.
The way I see it's only the "Haters Gonna Hate" crew who has problems most likely because they can't wrap their heads around it
You're making sweeping generalizations about who is ignorant, and what they're ignorant about.
You then dismiss them as "random joes" as though you could possibly know their experience in the industry.
Wrong, I dismiss people who showcase their ignorance towards Star Citizen project as a whole and game development in general, which unfortunately encompasses most of posters here.
From vapourware or scam claims to total collapses and not possible features I've read them all along the years and I've shrugged them off with the same smug smile because I actually play the game and actually follow it's development contrary to the 99% of randoms who spend time pretending they do
Comments
And they are also spending millions in it's endless development, games like this are never finished, they are always improoved and updated. We never know how much better or worse would it be if they had posponed the game to acomodate a more ambitious vision from the get go.
As for now it's quite straighforward to observe which game people still care enough to engage with
If SC had ratios similar to a 'traditional AAA' it would currently be at a budget of something like $1B.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
No, it wouldn't.
In fact, I would argue SC marketing costs are the highest we have seen so far for a video game.
But the most grossest mistake is not knowning what you're getting into but not being willing to learn/understand the why and focus solely on finding the blame in others.
That's why, despite many of the haters and cynics of Star Citizen being prooved wrong along the years, very few of them have the maturity and humbleness to come forward and accept they were wrong.
Crowdfunding doesnteam you're entitled to anything, no, not even a product. You're backing an idea that could or could not come into fruition.
Sure you back a lot of games but you're acting like you're preordering them. You splash money upfront while neglecting all benefits and (for me) obligations of open development (testing early builds) while tunel-focusing on release dates alone.
If you followed Star Citizen and tested what's available we wouldn't even have this debate.
No one is defending anything but showcasing the general ignorance about basic base development, crowdfunding and Star Citizen as a project. As a backer and "whiteknight" I'm the first to say "stay the f**k away" of this game if you're looking for a polished and finished experience.
Claiming that you complain about the money they raised AND delays showcases just that. Because one exists because of the other. People keep backing the game at the lenght they do because they see and play the results of such effort.
Random joes getting mad about games are irrelevant. Just that. Irrelevant angry gamers who know no better than complaining.
All here: https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/96091066151/understanding-the-angry-gamer
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Jeez, at least do your homework before posting. Lumberyard IS CryEngine, just modded by Amazon and hosted by them for scalability. The port was done in a few weeks... it was certainly not a scrap everything move. They did it because Crytek looked financially unstable.
Having said that, is Roberts' focus screwed and is he wasting money... definitely... huge attention on details no one cares about like the physics of liquid in a cup (seriously.. and it still looks shit!).
Guild Software developed Vendetta Online, a game which accurately modeled Newtonian torque, thrust, and variable mass in a space MMO environment ten years before SC's Kickstarter. It managed to hit a number of firsts, including the first MMO to run seamlessly cross-platform between Android and Win/Mac/Linux, and the first MMO to support the Oculus Rift. It's still going, you can play it in VR now.
Pre-launch budget: shoestring (probably around $100k).
I-Novae Studios demoed seamless space-to-planet-surface transitions half a decade before SC would accomplish a similar feat. This later morphed into Infinity: Battlescape, which is currently in Early Access on Steam and looks to be providing some epic space battles.
Pre-launch budget: shoestring ($332k).
Star Citizen, 7 years, $250 million, and a dozen shell companies later:
https://imgur.com/866X6nL
Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas!
-XO
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance