It occurs to me that Star Citizen is using a new business model. Star Citizen is very profitable, without selling a product. It is a continuous alpha, for years, and no release date in sight. This doesn't prevent them from making hundreds of millions in revenue anyway.
In the old days, you bought a CD (or even a floppy) with the game on it. The game was finished, came with a manual, and was complete. Then we started doing everything online, so that companies could release something that wasn't finished, and then update it later online. This got progressively more common, so that now, games are released in beta shape as a matter of course.
But Star Citizen has taken it one step further. They haven't even released something like a beta. They're still in alpha, still changing the game, still developing it, while they are also selling access to whatever is running at the moment. They are free to change the game at any time, free to shut it down at any time, free to completely stop and just keep the money. Their website makes it clear that donating to the development is not a guarantee of receiving a finished product.
I think this is what has caused so much controversy. The visuals look great, the ships are cool, but there is no game. Just eternal development. And many people apparently don't like this new business model.
why does any of that matter to you ? why are you so worried about what people find enjoyable ?
who do you work for ?
The Church of Scientology, CR is stealing some of their business.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I dont think the negativity was a good or a bad thing concerning SCs development but on its funding I believe it very much helped and created a stronger bond/attachment between the community and SC.
I also dont think this is a rare phenomena- It happens with alot ofthings but was magnetized by being a crowd funded venture- This was like the Nintendo Vs Genesis primary school arguments bumped up to 11 because the ones arguing were funding the companies lol-
I know the analogies arent exactly right but I like them dammit.
Many? Such exaggerations are both on the way of spite funding as they are in the way of spite refunds, such does not apply to the general community. The active community of SC is by default a fraction of its total community that does not engage on reddits or social medias, etc...
The core of the support of this game always comes from the demand there is for this game, it's not because people say bad things, it's not because trolls had massive go's years ago against SC, people are simply supporting the one who is has the offer, if you want you can go talk with backers about the why and you'll find this pattern.
There really isn't this complexity or obscurity behind the core reason behind SC's continuous funding & support to the point delusional threads like this even claim it's a "business model". I believe seeing past this obsessive naysaying would allow you to see that too.
You know I really wonder why those drinking the Koolaid don't stay the hell away from threads like this. All they are doing is trying to convince themselves because of the money they have in it. No one else is believing it.
And miss all the extra fun?
Star Citizen backers and supporters not only have been enjoying following the game's development and playing it's constant updates but also laugh at all the haters and cynics "doomsday" theories year after year...
Let's be honest here, how many here have actually tried the game despite it's multiple free-trials? Do they even have a capable gaming pc? Do they even care? No, ofc not, they're just attracted to drama.
Like 99% of the people who dismiss this project they don't actually know a thing about the game or it's state from first hand, they just rehash the same old preconceived gibberish to convince themselves they aren't missing out.
We get it, you love the idea of a game like Star Citizen but your mmo heart has been disappointed so many times you want to avoid more suffering so you counter the hype by projecting your frustrations and cynicism into it.
But the thing is, the game is being development just fine and is already enjoyed by many while getting better with every update. The game doesn't need any defending and when it's backers feel the need to correct or point out the many misconceptions, disinformation and lies about it it's not because they are trying to convince anyone, it's because of how bloody easy it is showcase how blatantly wrong they are.
What is unfinished is good, what is finished is bad. They like the eternal wait I guess.
Star Citizen fans in a nutshell:
Again y'all naysayers can post all rando stuff you want, the core point will always stand:
"The core of the support of this game always comes from the demand there is for this game, ....., people are simply supporting the one who has the offer" (supply and demand 101 pretty much)
That is the thing the naysayers will always refuse to admit, so you can keep going with the posts about all this bigger, edgy and/or obscure truths to everything when SC is the topic
Its an amazingly genial business model : P2W game that is not actually even a game but just promise of game.
Its actually bit like religion. Pray and pay to the church, so you can have place in heaven ( that maybe or maybe not exists ) one time, when you die.
Exactly, SC has transcended far beyond being just a video game.
It is a title backers are putting all of their hopes and dreams (and cash) for the promise of an eternal reward.
The many parallels with religious or consumer cults is not coincidental.
They are by no means the only company to do this (see Apple) but the must be one of the first to see such success with an unfinished / incomplete product.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Its an amazingly genial business model : P2W game that is not actually even a game but just promise of game.
Its actually bit like religion. Pray and pay to the church, so you can have place in heaven ( that maybe or maybe not exists ) one time, when you die.
Exactly, SC has transcended far beyond being just a video game.
It is a title backers are putting all of their hopes and dreams (and cash) for the promise of an eternal reward.
The many parallels with religious or consumer cults is not coincidental.
They are by no means the only company to do this (see Apple) but the must be one of the first to see such success with an unfinished / incomplete product.
Its an amazingly genial business model : P2W game that is not actually even a game but just promise of game.
Its actually bit like religion. Pray and pay to the church, so you can have place in heaven ( that maybe or maybe not exists ) one time, when you die.
Exactly, SC has transcended far beyond being just a video game.
It is a title backers are putting all of their hopes and dreams (and cash) for the promise of an eternal reward.
The many parallels with religious or consumer cults is not coincidental.
They are by no means the only company to do this (see Apple) but the must be one of the first to see such success with an unfinished / incomplete product.
Err, nope, CU backer yes, only game I ever crowd funded.
Told Jacobs no one else sees another dollar until he delivers what he promised.
One big plus, has saved me much money over the years.
I have a better motto. Don't crowdfund anything. Wait until reviews let you know it is at least worth a shot and then try or get on sale.
Doubly true if it has Chris Roberts name attached to it as the head honcho. Then again that has yet to happen as he’s never released a fully functioning and complete game before while running a company lol
To all the people claiming they ( or others ) are playing SC. I want to ask you one thing: How does the SC at the moment compare with Elite?
So not in the future, but right now. How does this 250 million dollar game compares with Elite ( even on release ) after it started development before it, and is in development for wopping 5 years longer!!!, ( at the moment ).
If it is not radically better, in every single way ( including more polished ) - Than I think we can wrap this one up.
I mean, if a game that was released 5 years before ( although the development started at aproximately same time ) made with 1% SC budget, is better than a game that at the moment has 5+ years on it on development time and 99% more development budget. Than what are we talking about here, than a crazy cult?
If the game ceased development and shutdown tomorrow the fan bois would be on here talking about how the last near decade was an amazing experience and worth whatever money they dumped into this train wreak.
I'm not sure the new business model is invalid. Plenty of people support it, claiming they are playing and having fun.
One analogy I used before was a car factory. You can donate money to build the factory, and drive the prototypes, but no cars have been produced for sale yet. Nobody can buy anything.
But maybe a better analogy is a lease, or even a car rental. You never actually own a car, but you can drive one temporarily if you pay.
And in one sense, you can get a great deal I guess. You pay a modest fee, say $75, and you get to play the alpha forever. You'll never own the game, it may never release officially, but you also don't have to pay a monthly fee to play.
And this new model may be superior in some ways. It's not clear to me that the market for space games is big enough to support a $250 million revenue stream.
can someone name a game that made more than 250 million? bc i don't think i can ^^
sooooo... maybe all the other games are doing it wrong ^^
WoW? some final fantasy? GTA? pretty sure games making 250M by selling said games is not rare in todays standards, now having a budget of over 250M and no game to call his own, only star citizen
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
can someone name a game that made more than 250 million? bc i don't think i can ^^
sooooo... maybe all the other games are doing it wrong ^^
I believe quite a few have made more, but none without actually delivering a completed game and certainly not using almost totally free money.
Clearly the others are doing it wrong.
Is the space game market that big? I read that Elite sold 3 million copies, that isn't $250 million.
Normally investors would put up money for development, and expect a healthy return of profit. In this new model, there are no investors, so no pressure to actually make a product for sale. And even if it does release and is sold commercially, the "investors" won't receive any return at all.
So the new model is not product oriented. The end goal isn't a finished product to sell and make profit. Instead, it appears to be a continuous alpha, funded by the players and believers.
Pretty much all the popular franchises from the big publishers are bound to make much more in a year alone than what 8 years of crowdfunding have generated for Star Citizen...
3. Grand Theft Auto V, Take-Two Interactive - $628 million
4. Call of Duty: Black Ops IIII, Activision Blizzard - $612 million
5. Red Dead Redemption 2, Take-Two Interactive - $516 million
6. Call of Duty: WWII, Activision Blizzard - $506 million
7. FIFA 19, Electronic Arts - $482 million
8. Monster Hunter: World, Capcom - $467 million
9. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege, Ubisoft - $440 million
10. Overwatch, Activision Blizzard - $429 million
Getting into the free2play or mobile gaming because the numbers would even be more comical. Games like Fortnite, PokemonGo, PUBG and all the many battleroyale you never heard of are passing the $Billion dollar mark in a year.
1. Fortnite, Epic Games - $2.4 billion
2. Dungeon Fighter Online, Nexon - $1.5 billion
3. League of Legends, Riot Games, Tencent - $1.4 billion
In short, comparing money gathered throughout the many years of crowdfunding and used to start a company from scratch, building the studios, assembling the team while producing not one, but 2 massively ambitious games with the budget available for big publishers makes no sense.
The sheer fact that nobody else is producing something of this genre at the scale of Star Citizen/Squadron 42 should tell you why it's gotten such a massive support from the get go and it just keeps growing.
Ubisoft has Beyond Good & Evil 2 in production for 10+years, their fanbase has played 0 and seen a few glimpses of footage. Bethesda has been thinking in making Starfield for over 10+years, nothing has been shown yet much less played.
If it was easy any of the many other massive companies with more money and dev's than CIG would have done it by now. Yet here we are
Kind of like this : Elite Dangerous is an apple, which was ripe at launch, Star Citizen is a seed that will continue to grow and eventually fruit many apples.
Apples are normally grafted, so if you wanted to grow an apple you normally wouldn't start with a seed.
Kind of like this : Elite Dangerous is an apple, which was ripe at launch, Star Citizen is a seed that will continue to grow and eventually fruit many apples.
Apples are normally grafted, so if you wanted to grow an apple you normally wouldn't start with a seed.
Seeds are still a viable option, but slow. Grafting allows much more genetic manipulation, and can be faster. Birds haven't been known to eat grafts, at least in my experience.
With @Prime_Directives' analogy, I'm uncertain how a grown Star Citizen game will spawn more games from itself. Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen are both cast as games in the analogy. Maybe PD was trying to compare experiences between the two? Then again, developers craft the experiences either directly (content) or indirectly (tools for players); if the developer didn't put it in, there's no chance for new experiences. So the apple analogy fails for me on several levels.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Let me say something and this is a fact. There will always be ppl like me who laugh at SC and call it a scam and there will always be white knights who think SC is doing something special. We will never come to an agreement and this will just go on an on. One day when this project fails and nothing that was originally promised materializes, people will just move and this will be a citation for future projects. What makes this scam so successful is that they pretend to update the community with pathetic milestones achieved goals, making it seem they are actually building a game. Wake up, most of the 255M is gone and they have a few planets. This scam would need another 300M+ 5 years at a minimum to even think of an mmorpg. Shame on anyone defending this trash bin. If it ever comes out, i'll pick this up on Steam sale for about 10$.
I remember when comparing SC to Elite Dangerous might have made some sense. But Elite Dangerous came out in December 2014. Literally 5 years ago. It had 1 expansiony thing in 2015.
If you have to compare your favorite current game to something from 4-5 years ago to make yourself feel better, go for it. I think it's a bit embarrassing at this point, especially since I think that old game is way better than SC at the moment. I think someone was even saying it has more concurrent players.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The core of the support of this game always comes from the demand there is for this game, it's not because people say bad things, it's not because trolls had massive go's years ago against SC, people are simply supporting the one who is has the offer, if you want you can go talk with backers about the why and you'll find this pattern.
There really isn't this complexity or obscurity behind the core reason behind SC's continuous funding & support to the point delusional threads like this even claim it's a "business model". I believe seeing past this obsessive naysaying would allow you to see that too.
MAGA
"The core of the support of this game always comes from the demand there is for this game, ....., people are simply supporting the one who has the offer" (supply and demand 101 pretty much)
That is the thing the naysayers will always refuse to admit, so you can keep going with the posts about all this bigger, edgy and/or obscure truths to everything when SC is the topic
It's like a permanent episode of X-Files
Told Jacobs no one else sees another dollar until he delivers what he promised.
One big plus, has saved me much money over the years.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I want to ask you one thing: How does the SC at the moment compare with Elite?
So not in the future, but right now. How does this 250 million dollar game compares with Elite ( even on release ) after it started development before it, and is in development for wopping 5 years longer!!!, ( at the moment
If it is not radically better, in every single way ( including more polished ) - Than I think we can wrap this one up.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
sooooo... maybe all the other games are doing it wrong ^^
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
WoW? some final fantasy? GTA? pretty sure games making 250M by selling said games is not rare in todays standards, now having a budget of over 250M and no game to call his own, only star citizen
Clearly the others are doing it wrong.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
$250 million isn't even close to largest. For example Red Dead Redemption 2 generated $725 million sales in 3 days after its launch.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Redemption_2
This is the top ten premium games by revenue for 2018, according to SuperData:
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Given the C level salaries of Activision-Blizzard and EA though its pretty clear that there are multiple games making a lot of money.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If you have to compare your favorite current game to something from 4-5 years ago to make yourself feel better, go for it. I think it's a bit embarrassing at this point, especially since I think that old game is way better than SC at the moment. I think someone was even saying it has more concurrent players.