There was almost 0 pve content at the start of the year. There was barely anything to craft at the start of the year. So within a years time they have added alot of pve content and added magic and hopefully WAY more things to craft? I sure hope so but doubtful. Also keep in mind they're now making Lord of the Rings MMORPG. My guts say they're just pushing this out to move onto the real OMG project.
If we can assume anything its that Amazon can - if it wishes - develop more than 1 game at a time. And have a PvE team working on quests whilst testing the action combat stuff. They have the money.
This change kinda shows that twitch isnt the main driving factor for every game Amazon is going to make or be involved in..
It still can be. My guess is they reduced all the extras to instead devote resources to create twitch prime bonuses. Also think they are rushing it because they've been spending millions upon millions for years AND the SE Marvel MMO comes out in March or May. I wouldn't doubt that someone at Amazon who does the finances woke up one morning and finally realized the amount of money they were spending without having anything to show and gave the ultimatum to get it out BAMN.
This change kinda shows that twitch isnt the main driving factor for every game Amazon is going to make or be involved in..
Agree. I think there will be enough to satisfy the Twitch streamers but I think its also about Lumberyard which itself is just a tool attract developers to AWS. Selling stuff on Amazon - obviously - but they have also paired with Steam. And maybe also about Prime.
They seem to push exploration big time. Maybe as players where exploring and searching for secrets, treasures and such then bam 4 players ganked them. They always said quest and NPCs. These are not new to the game. They have best of both worlds it’s seems. PVP if you want PVE if you want. There in lies your choice your play style. There been a ton of pvp only mmorpgs as of late literally 80% seem to be. That’s awesome I love them. At the same time AAA all in mmorpg’s are a dying breed. ESO and FFIV were 5-6 years ago. Now there is nothing new to truly sink our teeth in. Hell WoW Classic that’s the “NEW” mmorpg lol.
Eh, as a pvper I don't mind the forced pvp removal. I prefer group oriented pvp and you betcha land claiming will still require it. Though, I thought the survival elements were extremely minimal and I never heard a single complaint about them. Yet alone enough of a reason to remove them.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Great move to switch out of PvP centric game. I am sorry but PvP games don't work long term because the Strong will always prey on the weak( Just look at WoW Classic PvP servers, they are nearly unplayable for many players) so casuals and late comers will be ganked endlessly and you can't keep a large player base that way
Headline; THEY JUST CHANGED THAT (that’s the reason there is an article in the first place, in case you missed it)
Which is my point.
Developers make an hardcore PVP MMORPG, they realise no one gives a shit, so they backtrack and nerf PVP adding some PVE.
I’ve seen this movie so many times I lost count. Meanwhile PVEers ignore the game because it has a PVP reputation, even though devs implemented PVE and nerfed PVP, so the game ends up devoid of players pretty quickly.
They keep doing the same mistake, over and over again, so in my opinion they deserves whatever misfortune comes their way.
I also think that the reason why games like MOBAs are so successful in their PvP type goals and game is that most people who die in them are not hounded and ganged up on. That is not the goal of the people playing the game and harder to accomplish with even numbers.
In MMORPGs when the balance on a server tips in the favour of one side, it results in what happened to Flamelash the EU server on WoW classic where the Alliance could no longer fight back and decided to just leave the server. They were being mercilessly killed and given no opportunity to advance at all and every avenue was shutoff and I wondered what exactly the Horde players (could have just as easily been Alliance if they had the advantage) were thinking when they did this day after day. Did they really think that the players would just continue to play as ghosts recovering their corpses only to be killed again. Is that what the losing side signed up for?
No people ultimately give up. That is in our nature and even if a few stay and fight what hope is there for them. Ask yourself why would anyone drive the very people you need to play the game with you, away like this. The answer is simple. When humans get an advantage and become a mob they no longer think or empathize they just want a feeling of having crushed people, an actual person behind the keyboard to a point where they just give up. This is motivation behind their actions. They admitted as much when asked in repeated threads to 'save the server' after the server died on the official forums.
Human beings take pleasure in the misery of another person so a clever AI will never ever give them the satisfaction of driving a real person out of a game.
As for games like Fortnite the population is vast and the numbers are huge and I think the individual encounters are fewer and less personal. Dying there is not as stinging or painful as in an MMORPG where months of your work may be the casualty. It is easier to play a game like PUBG or Fortnite and actually have fun without being hounded out of the game like it is in an MMORPG.
I also think that the reason why games like MOBAs are so successful in their PvP type goals and game is that most people who die in them are not hounded and ganged up on. That is not the goal of the people playing the game and harder to accomplish with even numbers.
In MMORPGs when the balance on a server tips in the favour of one side, it results in what happened to Flamelash the EU server on WoW classic where the Alliance could no longer fight back and decided to just leave the server. They were being mercilessly killed and given no opportunity to advance at all and every avenue was shutoff and I wondered what exactly the Horde players (could have just as easily been Alliance if they had the advantage) were thinking when they did this day after day. Did they really think that the players would just continue to play as ghosts recovering their corpses only to be killed again. Is that what the losing side signed up for?
No people ultimately give up. That is in our nature and even if a few stay and fight what hope is there for them. Ask yourself why would anyone drive the very people you need to play the game with you, away like this. The answer is simple. When humans get an advantage and become a mob they no longer think or empathize they just want a feeling of having crushed people, an actual person behind the keyboard to a point where they just give up. This is motivation behind their actions. They admitted as much when asked in repeated threads to 'save the server' after the server died on the official forums.
Human beings take pleasure in the misery of another person so a clever AI will never ever give them the satisfaction of driving a real person out of a game.
As for games like Fortnite the population is vast and the numbers are huge and I think the individual encounters are fewer and less personal. Dying there is not as stinging or painful as in an MMORPG where months of your work may be the casualty. It is easier to play a game like PUBG or Fortnite and actually have fun without being hounded out of the game like it is in an MMORPG.
I was about to say i never give up!
But then i remembered the last 2 times i played wow(retail) It should be said i play inn pvp mode. i prefer looking over my shoulder and a random good fight. So i logged into this new zone, Nasjatar or something, was some time ago now, and the zone where you spawn, was swarming, litterally swarming with horde, and dead alliance. this kept on each time i logged in, and each time there were less and less alliance, but still a massive amount of hordes, slaying everything. Until one, i no longer logged again. so i have to agree with you, because i also now play mostly pubg, and miss a good mmorpg.
I wasn't interested in the game before and this announcement doesn't change anything. I am curious though how much they have compromised their vision of the game in order to grab a larger crowd.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Well that probably got a lot more people interested.
At the loss of original fans who were hoping for a full PvP survival game
Not sure there are more people interested- just different people.
Also I seriously doubt the PvE quality and content to be good enough for PvE crowd
I would think that the PVE - opt in PvP crowd would be significantly larger than the Full PvP Survival crowd. I have no data, just a feeling based on reading forums and other news pieces. As far as PvE quality, I think it's kinda hard to say at this point. I personally need more information before I pass this type of judgement.
I also think that the reason why games like MOBAs are so successful in their PvP type goals and game is that most people who die in them are not hounded and ganged up on. That is not the goal of the people playing the game and harder to accomplish with even numbers.
In MMORPGs when the balance on a server tips in the favour of one side, it results in what happened to Flamelash the EU server on WoW classic where the Alliance could no longer fight back and decided to just leave the server. They were being mercilessly killed and given no opportunity to advance at all and every avenue was shutoff and I wondered what exactly the Horde players (could have just as easily been Alliance if they had the advantage) were thinking when they did this day after day. Did they really think that the players would just continue to play as ghosts recovering their corpses only to be killed again. Is that what the losing side signed up for?
No people ultimately give up. That is in our nature and even if a few stay and fight what hope is there for them. Ask yourself why would anyone drive the very people you need to play the game with you, away like this. The answer is simple. When humans get an advantage and become a mob they no longer think or empathize they just want a feeling of having crushed people, an actual person behind the keyboard to a point where they just give up. This is motivation behind their actions. They admitted as much when asked in repeated threads to 'save the server' after the server died on the official forums.
Human beings take pleasure in the misery of another person so a clever AI will never ever give them the satisfaction of driving a real person out of a game.
As for games like Fortnite the population is vast and the numbers are huge and I think the individual encounters are fewer and less personal. Dying there is not as stinging or painful as in an MMORPG where months of your work may be the casualty. It is easier to play a game like PUBG or Fortnite and actually have fun without being hounded out of the game like it is in an MMORPG.
Exactly this.
Unless they implement strict PVP rules, where PVP has an High Risk, High Reward system, PVP in MMORPGs will fail.
EVE used to have that balance right (only one) but not anymore. Now PVP players enjoy Low Risk for an High Reward which is pushing PVX players (carebears) away from the game.
I also think that the reason why games like MOBAs are so successful in their PvP type goals and game is that most people who die in them are not hounded and ganged up on. That is not the goal of the people playing the game and harder to accomplish with even numbers.
In MMORPGs when the balance on a server tips in the favour of one side, it results in what happened to Flamelash the EU server on WoW classic where the Alliance could no longer fight back and decided to just leave the server. They were being mercilessly killed and given no opportunity to advance at all and every avenue was shutoff and I wondered what exactly the Horde players (could have just as easily been Alliance if they had the advantage) were thinking when they did this day after day. Did they really think that the players would just continue to play as ghosts recovering their corpses only to be killed again. Is that what the losing side signed up for?
No people ultimately give up. That is in our nature and even if a few stay and fight what hope is there for them. Ask yourself why would anyone drive the very people you need to play the game with you, away like this. The answer is simple. When humans get an advantage and become a mob they no longer think or empathize they just want a feeling of having crushed people, an actual person behind the keyboard to a point where they just give up. This is motivation behind their actions. They admitted as much when asked in repeated threads to 'save the server' after the server died on the official forums.
Human beings take pleasure in the misery of another person so a clever AI will never ever give them the satisfaction of driving a real person out of a game.
As for games like Fortnite the population is vast and the numbers are huge and I think the individual encounters are fewer and less personal. Dying there is not as stinging or painful as in an MMORPG where months of your work may be the casualty. It is easier to play a game like PUBG or Fortnite and actually have fun without being hounded out of the game like it is in an MMORPG.
Exactly this.
Unless they implement strict PVP rules, where PVP has an High Risk, High Reward system, PVP in MMORPGs will fail.
EVE used to have that balance right (only one) but not anymore. Now PVP players enjoy Low Risk for an High Reward which is pushing PVX players (carebears) away from the game.
I think PVX ers are called Krabs these days, but not sure why .
Just realized this month marks three yrs since I walked away from 10 years of being a paid EVE subscriber (6 annual accounts the last 3 years)
Their never ending campaign to encourage more PVP by making Krabs more vulnerable has CCP reaping what they sowed.
We all left (4 friends I used to play EVE with) and none returned. Total of 16 paid accounts, great job I guess.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Headline; THEY JUST CHANGED THAT (that’s the reason there is an article in the first place, in case you missed it)
Which is my point.
Developers make an hardcore PVP MMORPG, they realise no one gives a shit, so they backtrack and nerf PVP adding some PVE.
I’ve seen this movie so many times I lost count. Meanwhile PVEers ignore the game because it has a PVP reputation, even though devs implemented PVE and nerfed PVP, so the game ends up devoid of players pretty quickly.
They keep doing the same mistake, over and over again, so in my opinion they deserves whatever misfortune comes their way.
OK.
Have they made a change though? We didn't know what the game was last year. They showed some stuff and people made assumptions. Given the hints back then - largely ignored - I think PvE was always planned.
Getting PvP combat "right" is always harder than PvE combat right as well - so it would make sense to use PvP combat for testing.
New World during Alpha got me into playing more survival PvP games.
My favorite moment in the alpha was being unexpectedly ambushed by a player hunter guild; dedicated to slaying travelers. My guild member and I ran to the opposite side of the map; into the snow. A random guy walked up to us and started talking casually to us.
Out of nowhere; a gun shot went off and a bullet hit my guild member and he lost more than half of his health. We both took off running, no more conversations, just taking off in slightly different paths.
Gunshots were whizzing past us; when suddenly; my guild member was struck and died. He lost everything he was carrying. - I remember running over his dead body (because if you pick up his loot then you'll be weighed down and unable to move) looking behind me and dodging bullets left and right as if I were in the matrix (it was all luck). Another guy was running up to the gunshots and I told him there's player killers; and then I took off running all the way to the opposite side of the map; where our guild castle was.
It may not sound like a special story to some; but this was in New World and it was special to me.
I'm very sad that New World won't be the same game I got to experience in Alpha. It won't have the same thrilling moments. You might not get to experience hearing TNT kegs going off in the distance; indicating your walls are under attack; because it might be instanced now. A player had to be online to defend at all times; and it made you want to log back in to help. I have never experienced such a strong bond with other guild members. I might still give it a try; but I feel like it will just be another MMO with crappy quests and nothing really interested to do.
It may not sound like a special story to some; but this was in New World and it was special to me.
But it is. It's these moments that make these types of games work.
It's the interaction with other people, saving your butt, trying to escape. Heck, some really funny moments can also happen.
In any case, to the article, there is no such thing as forced pvp. Does that mean we can have games with forced pve? Or maybe forced character creation?
Games are what they are. People are either on board or they are not. If they aren't move on. No one "forced" them to download or even pay for it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So what I really get out of this is that it's an open world mmo that's rather boring unless pvp is your thing. There are no live dynamic events to partake in . No real reason for social Interaction beyond your group and the end game doesn't seem very far off in the distance . So if they got rid of the survival part of the game is taming creatures still the only way to get a mount ? Because that seems very survival esk to me . No body wants a gank box also no one wants a boring mmo . Look at life is fudel mmo or Gloria Victus they don't have a very big player base but arguably have alot more innovation then this game is claiming to have. The only thing this game might have going for it is the big population numbers. But from what I herd they will be rather hard to tansverse the landscape making large numbers of people in the same area rather remote. I predict this game will be a flop if 2 things don't happen 1 innovation beyond population numbers which make the game a blast to play . 2 more traditional MMORPG on a massive scale thinking BDO both of which I don't see in this game. But I guess we will see.
The only people advocating for hardcore PvP was Goons, the majority community were asking for non-forced PvP. The community spoke, Amazon listened. This was the appropriate move.
Not if you consider what they originally sold. Also the removal of sandbox elements - not what many asked for
Well, like many games, they can only put in what is reasonable to put in a certain time frame. That is how companies who want to make a product do it. A.Net did that with GW2 as did many others.
TO me, this is the issue with SC, they want to put EVERYTHING in and in the end nothing will be put in.
Comments
@Torval !!!!!!
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
LOL, nice. I was going to do that but you beat me to it.
Yeah, I'm getting it for free so I'll check it out some time after launch. Maybe then I can talk about my alpha experiences without breaking NDA.
Which is my point.
Developers make an hardcore PVP MMORPG, they realise no one gives a shit, so they backtrack and nerf PVP adding some PVE.
I’ve seen this movie so many times I lost count.
Meanwhile PVEers ignore the game because it has a PVP reputation, even though devs implemented PVE and nerfed PVP, so the game ends up devoid of players pretty quickly.
They keep doing the same mistake, over and over again, so in my opinion they deserves whatever misfortune comes their way.
In MMORPGs when the balance on a server tips in the favour of one side, it results in what happened to Flamelash the EU server on WoW classic where the Alliance could no longer fight back and decided to just leave the server. They were being mercilessly killed and given no opportunity to advance at all and every avenue was shutoff and I wondered what exactly the Horde players (could have just as easily been Alliance if they had the advantage) were thinking when they did this day after day. Did they really think that the players would just continue to play as ghosts recovering their corpses only to be killed again. Is that what the losing side signed up for?
No people ultimately give up. That is in our nature and even if a few stay and fight what hope is there for them. Ask yourself why would anyone drive the very people you need to play the game with you, away like this. The answer is simple. When humans get an advantage and become a mob they no longer think or empathize they just want a feeling of having crushed people, an actual person behind the keyboard to a point where they just give up. This is motivation behind their actions. They admitted as much when asked in repeated threads to 'save the server' after the server died on the official forums.
Human beings take pleasure in the misery of another person so a clever AI will never ever give them the satisfaction of driving a real person out of a game.
As for games like Fortnite the population is vast and the numbers are huge and I think the individual encounters are fewer and less personal. Dying there is not as stinging or painful as in an MMORPG where months of your work may be the casualty. It is easier to play a game like PUBG or Fortnite and actually have fun without being hounded out of the game like it is in an MMORPG.
But then i remembered the last 2 times i played wow(retail)
It should be said i play inn pvp mode. i prefer looking over my shoulder and a random good fight.
So i logged into this new zone, Nasjatar or something, was some time ago now, and the zone
where you spawn, was swarming, litterally swarming with horde, and dead alliance. this kept on each time i logged in, and each time there were less and less alliance, but still a massive amount of hordes, slaying everything.
Until one, i no longer logged again.
so i have to agree with you, because i also now play mostly pubg, and miss a good mmorpg.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I self identify as a monkey.
Unless they implement strict PVP rules, where PVP has an High Risk, High Reward system, PVP in MMORPGs will fail.
EVE used to have that balance right (only one) but not anymore.
Now PVP players enjoy Low Risk for an High Reward which is pushing PVX players (carebears) away from the game.
Just realized this month marks three yrs since I walked away from 10 years of being a paid EVE subscriber (6 annual accounts the last 3 years)
Their never ending campaign to encourage more PVP by making Krabs more vulnerable has CCP reaping what they sowed.
We all left (4 friends I used to play EVE with) and none returned. Total of 16 paid accounts, great job I guess.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Have they made a change though? We didn't know what the game was last year. They showed some stuff and people made assumptions. Given the hints back then - largely ignored - I think PvE was always planned.
Getting PvP combat "right" is always harder than PvE combat right as well - so it would make sense to use PvP combat for testing.
My favorite moment in the alpha was being unexpectedly ambushed by a player hunter guild; dedicated to slaying travelers. My guild member and I ran to the opposite side of the map; into the snow. A random guy walked up to us and started talking casually to us.
Out of nowhere; a gun shot went off and a bullet hit my guild member and he lost more than half of his health. We both took off running, no more conversations, just taking off in slightly different paths.
Gunshots were whizzing past us; when suddenly; my guild member was struck and died. He lost everything he was carrying. - I remember running over his dead body (because if you pick up his loot then you'll be weighed down and unable to move) looking behind me and dodging bullets left and right as if I were in the matrix (it was all luck). Another guy was running up to the gunshots and I told him there's player killers; and then I took off running all the way to the opposite side of the map; where our guild castle was.
It may not sound like a special story to some; but this was in New World and it was special to me.
I'm very sad that New World won't be the same game I got to experience in Alpha. It won't have the same thrilling moments. You might not get to experience hearing TNT kegs going off in the distance; indicating your walls are under attack; because it might be instanced now. A player had to be online to defend at all times; and it made you want to log back in to help. I have never experienced such a strong bond with other guild members. I might still give it a try; but I feel like it will just be another MMO with crappy quests and nothing really interested to do.
Damn their game design turning upside down OWO
It's the interaction with other people, saving your butt, trying to escape. Heck, some really funny moments can also happen.
In any case, to the article, there is no such thing as forced pvp. Does that mean we can have games with forced pve? Or maybe forced character creation?
Games are what they are. People are either on board or they are not. If they aren't move on. No one "forced" them to download or even pay for it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, like many games, they can only put in what is reasonable to put in a certain time frame. That is how companies who want to make a product do it. A.Net did that with GW2 as did many others. TO me, this is the issue with SC, they want to put EVERYTHING in and in the end nothing will be put in.