Respawning - Where do you want to go when you die?

ChildoftheShadows · December 2019

I came from games like EQ and Eve Online and it was kind of a let down when I first died in AoC and was spawned on a pad somewhere within the zone. It took me a long time to become accustomed to it and really I still kind of miss the days of watching out for where my binds are before venturing too far from home.

I played Darkfall Online and now Rise of Agon a bit and in them when you died you went to your bindstone. Something similar to your clone station or bind point in EQ. Recently they added the option to go to your house and now you even have the option of going to a stone nearby.

In some ways I really like what Rise of Agon did there. It's not like AoC where there are several pads within a short walking distance of your farming spot and you don't have to go all the way across the map to go where you need to be. I do miss EQ for it's somewhat limited fast travel, binds, and teleport spells though.

What do you guys think? What is your favorite type of respawn system?

iixviiiix · December 2019

I prefer respawn system with options

Amaranthar · December 2019

I'd want to be a Ghost that's bound to their corpse, within a range so they can walk around, say, a room. With an option to get sent to a Resurrection Stone. If a player Resurrects them, they get the option to accept.

I'd want Ghosts to have their speech text changed so that similar length sentences that have ghostly sounds to the words appear instead. Each word randomized so that it can't be deciphered.
Then I'd want a Skill such as UO's Spirit Speak, or a Spell, that can allow the caster to understand what the Ghost player is saying.

And I'd want Ghosts to be invisible until either they speak, turning them visible for about 10 seconds each time, or someone casts Spirit Speak, which would reveal them.

I'd also want Crystal Balls that can be used to communicate with Ghosts of players who have been linked to them, such as Guild mates or other friends. From anywhere in the world.

With that, a player could "sacrifice" a character for a time, by staying as a Ghost for maybe a lengthy time, deep inside a very tough Dungeon, so as to keep their Guild informed.

I'd also want a means for other Players to "cast out" a Ghost, sending them to a Resurrection Stone. In case there's an issue of players spying on other Players.

Po_gg · December 2019

Yep, LotRO's "you were defeated so you just run to the nearest safe spot" was a nice lore-fitting solution.

I need to defend AoC (though I rarely do that favor to Funcom since those fcks killed off TSW), at least a bit: "there are several pads within a short walking distance of your farming spot" is only true for Tortage, which is the tutorial - and you rarely die there anyway. Beyond that zones have much less pads and longer distances. And it's wise to walk back to your tombstone after you're up and rested, because of the death penalty.

Speaking of TSW, it was really good in this regard (as in almost every aspect too...). You didn't die, just went to the other side, which was an entire world and a gameplay mechanic often used for missions too. And when you've finished (or if you had no goals there just died accidentally), you could come back any time at your corpse, or at anima wells if you ventured far off from your corpse and didn't want to run back. The only "penalty" was some gear degradation since you were immortal but your gear was not.

(so when you went to the other side willingly, you just stripped before

since repair costs raised fast when you had purple gear)

Wizardry Online had an interesting death mechanic too, but pvp and permadeath killed the game quickly...

Copperfield · December 2019

i would like to die, then be reincarnated as a bird.. which makes you fly to your own body...

then a msg should pop.. which is the msg of god.. and he ask you questions if your worthy to enter your own body again..

Caffynated · December 2019

You should awake in the underworld and have to survive in a hellscape while being hunted by daemons until someone resurrects you, or you find a daemon who will make a deal with you, offering life in exchange for a big chunk of XP that can cost you a level. The more you die in the underworld the more XP it costs to resurrect.

AlBQuirky · December 2019

EQ 1 was mine. I certainly cursed it a lot, but it usually added unexpected adventure to the game. It was also another possibility of interacting with other players.

I'm not a masochist, but I do like hard consequences for dying. It's a bit like kicking someone who is down, but it also makes people think about what they're doing.

Nanfoodle · December 2019

I like ESO, respawn where you died, with an option to pick where you respawn. Or you can be sent to a safe place of your choosing. This works great for MMOs where classes are harmogness system where there is little or no class interdependence. A game thats shooting for class interdependency like Pantheon, I like a little more strict res system. Needing set classes to res and recover bodies. Corpse retrieval as well required.

Sovrath · December 2019

Caffynated said:

You should awake in the underworld and have to survive in a hellscape while being hunted by daemons until someone resurrects you, or you find a daemon who will make a deal with you, offering life in exchange for a big chunk of XP that can cost you a level. The more you die in the underworld the more XP it costs to resurrect.

I like this.

Basically dying brings on its own game. Of course, it probably wouldn't work in that you get a group of friends together, someone dies and that's it for the play session as "dead boy" now has to go do his own solo game.

They could make it that players have to go and retrieve their fallen comrade (or guild members, whomever ... ) but constantly going to the underworld might get tedious with every death.

Amathe · December 2019

I liked he EQ system, where I spawned at the last place I soul bound. And that place was usually right in front of the cutest NPC I could find.

cameltosis · December 2019

I expect to respawn in the nearest safe area. thats about it really. seems to be the way it works in pretty much every rpg I've played that allows respawning. never really found a fault with it

Gutlard · December 2019

I wish it was like Reincarnation.
If you lived a good life and helped people, you would restart with bonuses on a newb character.
If you were a douche, you would come back as a level one Rat for newbs to kill, or a piece of shitty gray armor.

Gut Out!

Sovrath · December 2019

DMKano said:

My preference is hardcore mode - complete character and gear loss - start over.

Now this is viable in ARPGs - not really viable in MMORPGs (well except for like BDO where I have characters that are 60+ and have never died once in PvE) so maybe in mmorpgs with /faceroll PvE like BDO it's possible

I think if there were some "last hope" moments such as the Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor/War, then I could be on board with that.

If there was a sort of "wait if you do this you'll survive" bit of game play then that would at least be satisfying and I could accept the character's death.

Couple that with the ability to retain some of the previous character's possessions or maybe a small amount of "bump" xp and it could be worth it.

I'd imagine one would still keep their name if they wanted as characters do die and the list of names would be cannibalised rather soon.

Amathe · December 2019

Gutlard said:

If you were a douche, you would come back as a level one Rat ....

Gut Out!

I will still like you even when you come back as a rat. *wink*

Cryomatrix · December 2019

Hardcore mode.

Even in MMOs, i do it, i played WoW classic, died at level 11, deleted char.

Chimborazo · December 2019

ChildoftheShadows said:

I came from games like EQ and Eve Online and it was kind of a let down when I first died in AoC and was spawned on a pad somewhere within the zone. It took me a long time to become accustomed to it and really I still kind of miss the days of watching out for where my binds are before venturing too far from home.

I played Darkfall Online and now Rise of Agon a bit and in them when you died you went to your bindstone. Something similar to your clone station or bind point in EQ. Recently they added the option to go to your house and now you even have the option of going to a stone nearby.

In some ways I really like what Rise of Agon did there. It's not like AoC where there are several pads within a short walking distance of your farming spot and you don't have to go all the way across the map to go where you need to be. I do miss EQ for it's somewhat limited fast travel, binds, and teleport spells though.

What do you guys think? What is your favorite type of respawn system?

I'd prefer a game where you can spawn at your "bindstone", if the game is "adventurous" where death is something meaningful etc. In a classic themepark I find it extremely boring to die and having to endure the whole fight as spectator.

Another cute idea : when you die a "minigame" start, like sono dozens mobile game whose names I can't remember, the one you are moving constantly forward and you have to steer and grab perks etc. Allies (or dedicated classes, healers themselves) could use their skills to help you in this minigame by making perks appear, boosting your speed etc. If you complete this minigame before the times run out you respawn right on your corpse, otherwise you go back to respawn

AlBQuirky · December 2019

Amathe said:

I liked he EQ system, where I spawned at the last place I soul bound. And that place was usually right in front of the cutest NPC I could find.

Like Hooly Windtsalker?

Caffynated · December 2019

Sovrath said:

Caffynated said:

You should awake in the underworld and have to survive in a hellscape while being hunted by daemons until someone resurrects you, or you find a daemon who will make a deal with you, offering life in exchange for a big chunk of XP that can cost you a level. The more you die in the underworld the more XP it costs to resurrect.

I like this.

Basically dying brings on its own game. Of course, it probably wouldn't work in that you get a group of friends together, someone dies and that's it for the play session as "dead boy" now has to go do his own solo game.

They could make it that players have to go and retrieve their fallen comrade (or guild members, whomever ... ) but constantly going to the underworld might get tedious with every death.

Your party could still resurrect you immediately for a smaller XP penalty, and the time it takes to find a daemon to do it wouldn't be much different from an EQ or UO corpse run. You would just be playing a different part of the game during that time instead of mindlessly running as a ghost to find a healer or back from your bind point to get your corpse. It basically makes dying as punishing and time consuming as dying in EQ, but without the boredom of a corpse run.

Po_gg · December 2019

Caffynated said:

It basically makes dying as punishing and time consuming as dying in EQ, but without the boredom of a corpse run.

Only until the novelty of it wears off... after that it'd be just as a boredom.

Illusionist's arena comes to mind in Neverwinter, it had a similar thing and I don't remember anyone who liked it.

After you died (and the party didn't rez you on the spot, since they were busy themselves with surviving) you ended up in a section with a crash course scattered with traps, in case the original injuries from the death penalty weren't enough... if you could get through, you got back to the arena, badly damaged. If you couldn't, you were stucked there until the group is finished (win, or dead).

At first it was interesting, then a challenge to find the best routes, and after that just a routine and an annoyance. At the end it only served as a trap for newbie players without the routine and knowledge of the course, but with it leaving the group one man short thus making the survival tougher.

Po_gg · December 2019

I still find it hard to believe some devs don't see those two points... I could dig up my posts from about the time of Wizardry's beta, where I said those two exact things, online means "as is", not a fool-proof 100% guaranteed hold in the player's hands, and pvp is, well, pvp.

So an MMORPG with full open, no safe zones, corpse loot, etc. (a.k.a. the most toxic there is) pvp AND with permadeath, in an online game (since the O in MMORPG), is a stupid thing to do. They still went on with it. And it died, quickly. Surprise, surprise.

Scot · December 2019

Guys where is the "fun" in all of this, instant return without penalty and carrying on with the fun is all games can be about.

kitarad · December 2019

Everquest I guess even though I hated it, it gave gravitas to dying. It made you play carefully and be aware of everything around you.

Amaranthar · December 2019

kitarad said:

Everquest I guess even though I hated it, it gave gravitas to dying. It made you play carefully and be aware of everything around you.

But players can always skip the corpse run. Let that gear go.
One thing about UO, gear wasn't usually top end stuff. The top gear was saved for special occasions, with plenty of friends for protection.
With gear being less than top end, it was easily replaced, so losing it wasn't a real big deal.

I say "replace gear with new abilities and magical powers", for the really great stuff. Let gear be something that you can replace and it's not a huge deal.
That can allow for more options in how death is handled.

Scot · December 2019

Gorwe said:

Scot said:

Guys where is the "fun" in all of this, instant return without penalty and carrying on with the fun is all games can be about.

Let's define "fun", shall we? The basis of fun is pleasure, I think we can agree on that. A logical followup would be that some of us have masochist tendencies. Conscious or not. And, yes, masochism is a form of pleasure.

Regardless, I'll ask you the same question. Where is the fun if you simply get up and continue whacking the boss? At least have a walk of sorts like in Souls, simply getting up is stupid and makes the game meaningless.

Oh and the sense of danger. Adrenalin rush and all of that. Probably is linked to masochist tendencies somehow. If you don't feel like you stand to lose anything and can just brute force your way through the game...yeah, what's the point of that? Don't get me wrong, from becoming aware of my playstyle in Soulsborne(very active, very aggressive), I shouldn't be the one talking about "brute force", but this is another kind of "brute force" we're talking about.

I was joking mate, you do see the wink?

Elsabolts · December 2019

I pick Heaven with no life style choices, old school.

Caffynated · December 2019

Po_gg said:

Caffynated said:

It basically makes dying as punishing and time consuming as dying in EQ, but without the boredom of a corpse run.

Only until the novelty of it wears off... after that it'd be just as a boredom.

Illusionist's arena comes to mind in Neverwinter, it had a similar thing and I don't remember anyone who liked it.
After you died (and the party didn't rez you on the spot, since they were busy themselves with surviving) you ended up in a section with a crash course scattered with traps, in case the original injuries from the death penalty weren't enough... if you could get through, you got back to the arena, badly damaged. If you couldn't, you were stucked there until the group is finished (win, or dead).

At first it was interesting, then a challenge to find the best routes, and after that just a routine and an annoyance. At the end it only served as a trap for newbie players without the routine and knowledge of the course, but with it leaving the group one man short thus making the survival tougher.

Your criticism doesn't really make sense. You died, of course your party is going to be down a player.

What happens when you die in other MMOs?

WoW: You die and either get a rez or you respawn a 5-10 minute run away.

EQ: You die and either get a rez or respawn a 5-300 minute run away.

UO: You die and either get a rez or run around as a ghost looking for an NPC healer or shrine which could take quite a while and then run back to your corpse to get your equipment.

TERA: You die and either rez or respawn back in town and have to run back.

Repeat for almost every MMO on the market.

How is running back from a bind point more interesting and less repetitive than what I'm proposing?

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Respawning - Where do you want to go when you die?

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