New World Community Q&A Looks at PvP

System · January 2020

New World Community Q&A Looks at PvP

A new community Q&A was released recently from the New World team discussing the evolution of PvP. Here are the details.

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Groqstrong · January 2020

As I said earlier.

PvP Players: Just make PvP and PvE servers

PvE Players: Why doesnt anyone PvP on our servers?

Wodge · January 2020

Groqstrong said:

PvE Players: Why doesnt anyone PvP on our servers?

I don't think any PvE focused players are going to be asking this question tbh.

Tyserie · January 2020

Majority of players in MMORPG play MMORPG because they are PvE players. Look on Black Desert, majority people there doesn't give a f about PvP, they just play it like PvE game. If they want play PvP, they go play BF or PUBG. Most people wants, good story, lots of nice loot/items and great dungeons and that's it. PvP in MMORPG is overrated and PvP players self will in most cases not keep the game and servers online. Focus on PvE and game can be successful, because if its good PvE players will pay for it.

Furanku · January 2020

umm... I like pvp, game like Ultima Online, EVE online and even darkfall online were great. Good story, gameplay and events are great but so is PVP. It's all apart of the game. It' should be a balance of both Risk and Reward.

Raapnaap · January 2020

Enjoy your new PvE game with 6 months of PvE content development time.

Someone wake me up in 10 years when a big budget company finally makes a decent open world PvP MMO.

Alomar · January 2020

Tyserie said:

Majority of players in MMORPG play MMORPG because they are PvE players. Look on Black Desert, majority people there doesn't give a f about PvP, they just play it like PvE game. If they want play PvP, they go play BF or PUBG. Most people wants, good story, lots of nice loot/items and great dungeons and that's it. PvP in MMORPG is overrated and PvP players self will in most cases not keep the game and servers online. Focus on PvE and game can be successful, because if its good PvE players will pay for it.

That's not even remotely true, there is a very large pvp focused mmo crowd. It's just that the lack of good mmo pvp options, whether it be new titles or stale/repetitive pvp content in old mmo's has led to mmo pvpers needing to look elsewhere in recent years. This has led to many mmo pvpers playing battle royales as you mentioned. Yet, we still play mmo's or are willing to play new ones that cater to our interests.

madazz · January 2020

As is typical an mmorpgs dev team caters to the pve audience for greed and will end up worse off than before. You can't please everyone. They have now disregarded their original audience. No wonder they gave it away for free to those who pre ordered.

Been saying this for well over a decade, but developers need to ignore the loud minority and stick to their original designs. You cant fundamentally change a game this much so close to release and deliver a quality product. If amazon does, itll be a first.

Venger · January 2020

Happy with the new focus of the game. But I don't see a good reason to not have ffapvp servers. Let people choose their own adventure.

Asheram · January 2020

So how is the game going to be balanced around pve or pvp? Isnt a big part of problem combat gets balanced for pvp so it kills the fun stuff you could do in pve because something got nerfed for pvp but was fine for pve the way it was?

ultimateduck · January 2020

Nope. "Flagging" for PvP should be done immediately upon entering a PvP zone, which should be separate from the PvE zone. It's pretty irritating having a bunch of unattackable PvE players in the middle of a PvP battle.

biaxil · January 2020

I see this game as a huge fail. You don't develop a world that is pvp focused, being that it's open world and about territory control, with pve for resources; and then totally change course and make it basically a pve game with scheduled arena pvp. It's good to have a plan and stick to it, at least within the general framework. But New World has no identity now and is trying to cater to both crowds, but will end up catering to no one, because it doesn't seem to be doing anything correctly.

It's sad, because I was really looking forward to this game, but now it's just a mess of mechanics that don't go together. It's going to get boring fast.

elveone · January 2020

This is really funny. In the closed beta the game was a glorified survival game with crafting and PvP focus and they had huge problem with player retention most of them quiting because they wanted character development and PvE content. The simple truth is that the original PvP-centric focus of the game was a failure and they decided to rework it in a way that their players suggested it should be reworked and now a bunch of griefers are whining because they cannot kill low-level players easily anymore. And it is not that PvP games are not popular - they are popular as hell. It is just that whenever there is a PvP focused MMO it doesn't work because it is just a minority of players that want that - PvP players in genera; want a even playing field so that it is skill that matters and not how many hours of grinding you have behind your character.

Kumapon · January 2020

I think they made the right business decision, but it's a massive shift in game direction. Unless they had a ton of work already done, seems they are gonna run into the usual PVE problem, ie not enough content.

Those breaches they mention just sound like random world mob spawns that plenty of other games already do, and they get old fairly quickly. Maybe the crafting/building side, along with what content they can make before launch will give them time to churn out more, but I'm pretty skeptical.

Morgenes83 · January 2020

Imho opt-in systems are stupid.
They will be abused and nothing sucks more to be not able to kill someone because he opts-out.

Why isnt it possible to have a system where there are harsh penalties when you do unnecessary kills but still allow it and encourage people to have more political pvp (guild/alliance wars) in the open world.

So you can still kill someone when he annoys you or steals your mob, but it should be an exception or otherwise you will be marked as outlaw.
PvP without consequences can still be done against other guilds/alliances/nations. (With restrictions against other nations e.g. respawn in your nations main city after death (long travel time))

No Full loot in a crafting centered game is also stupid imho and will lead to a bad economy.

Time limited sieges are also stupid. Better have them restricted to prime time but then whenever you want to avoid night capping but keep it interesting.

Iselin · January 2020

If I'm going to spend several hours in an MMORPG game session I'd much rather spend that PvPimg in a good PvP game than raiding. I guess that makes me a PvPer.

Having said that, this little bit from the developer blog tells you everything you need to know as to why I detest PvP everywhere games:

One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.

Pay special attention to the "not shown by all PvP players, but ENOUGH TO CAUSE SIGNIFICANT ISSUES" part.

I read that, as the asshat minority fucks up PvP for the honest PvPer majority. This is not news - it's the way of OWPvP games. It has always been that way but it's even worse today because apparently, asshats breed faster than normal people

But you don't have to re-invent the wheel since DAoC did it right 20 years ago: many PvE-only zones + one or a couple well-crafted PvP zones with territory control, keeps, choke points and 24-7 PvP for anyone who wants to go there... simple.

Flagging is a lesser compromise solution but not nearly as good as the real DAoC deal.

slowz2secret · January 2020

I'm a PVE player, so I like what they did

Wizardry · January 2020

It is NOT about catering to anyone,it is about common sense.I am not going to for the millionth time explain why the two cannot co exist.Anyone who has gamed for a long time and paid attention to what goes on would know they cannot exist together.

However in saying that,most would agree that it seems logical pvp should exist in a game world if we are going for immersion.The problem is that pvp is the ONE aspect of immersion that cannot be done well enough to exist,it will only exist in these games because it draws a few more consumers.

One thing i always wondered about is WHY all these so called die hard fans of pvp want or tel us they NEED pvp in these rpg type games?A rpg platform is NOT the best avenue for the best pvp,so are all you telling me you don't really want the best pvp just any old sloppy form of?

I was pvp'ing long ago,1996+ through Quake and the unreal series.I really do enjoy some great pvp but i would never consider pvp'ing in a rpg because it would be like half assed pvp.

Groqstrong · January 2020

Other things can be implemented like "karma" for griefing lower players or adding contested zones, but making major design changes before finding solutions is amateur hour.

Thrabalen · January 2020

> Imho opt-in systems are stupid.
They will be abused and nothing sucks more to be not able to kill someone because he opts-out.

This. This right here is why PVE and PVP will never see eye to eye. This says, at its essence "you having fun deprives me of fun." It's a zero sum game, as if there's some finite amount of fun in a game, and for one person to have it, they have to make sure someone else isn't having it.

Tiller · January 2020

Don't mater what anyone here says, their playerbase has obviously stated their opinion and they listened.

biaxil · January 2020

Alomar said:

Tyserie said:

Majority of players in MMORPG play MMORPG because they are PvE players. Look on Black Desert, majority people there doesn't give a f about PvP, they just play it like PvE game. If they want play PvP, they go play BF or PUBG. Most people wants, good story, lots of nice loot/items and great dungeons and that's it. PvP in MMORPG is overrated and PvP players self will in most cases not keep the game and servers online. Focus on PvE and game can be successful, because if its good PvE players will pay for it.

That's not even remotely true, there is a very large pvp focused mmo crowd. It's just that the lack of good mmo pvp options, whether it be new titles or stale/repetitive pvp content in old mmo's has led to mmo pvpers needing to look elsewhere in recent years. This has led to many mmo pvpers playing battle royales as you mentioned. Yet, we still play mmo's or are willing to play new ones that cater to our interests.

Yea, because on the rare occassion a pvp focused game comes out that is open world, carebears for some reason decide to play it, and then complain about the pvp, and scream until devs dumb down the game, and then the game dies.

gervaise1 · January 2020

Wizardry said:

<snip>

However in saying that,most would agree that it seems logical pvp should exist in a game world if we are going for immersion.The problem is that pvp is the ONE aspect of immersion that cannot be done well enough to exist,<snip>

There are indeed a few problems.

I suppose - logically and purely for the purposes of immersion you understand - the devs should come around and kill the player when their character dies ...

oh wait. What was that about immersion again?

Games are about fun, escapism and so forth - not reality.

Tiller · January 2020

biaxil said:

Alomar said:

Tyserie said:

Majority of players in MMORPG play MMORPG because they are PvE players. Look on Black Desert, majority people there doesn't give a f about PvP, they just play it like PvE game. If they want play PvP, they go play BF or PUBG. Most people wants, good story, lots of nice loot/items and great dungeons and that's it. PvP in MMORPG is overrated and PvP players self will in most cases not keep the game and servers online. Focus on PvE and game can be successful, because if its good PvE players will pay for it.

That's not even remotely true, there is a very large pvp focused mmo crowd. It's just that the lack of good mmo pvp options, whether it be new titles or stale/repetitive pvp content in old mmo's has led to mmo pvpers needing to look elsewhere in recent years. This has led to many mmo pvpers playing battle royales as you mentioned. Yet, we still play mmo's or are willing to play new ones that cater to our interests.

Yea, because on the rare occassion a pvp focused game comes out that is open world, carebears for some reason decide to play it, and then complain about the pvp, and scream until devs dumb down the game, and then the game dies.

Usually there are other factors that attribute to a games death. Most times it was already in its death-throws.

Case in point, Aion. They tied character advancement to PvP in the Abys, thing is no one but PKers were there most times and it was hard to get a group together to do content there because even though people don't mind PvP, it was a headache to get anything done and took longer because of the few who wanted to stop anyone from progressing at all. Not only was that aspect shat, the game was grindy AF and we paid a sub for it. Eventually folks realized they could spend there time elsewhere and the game went f2p and is pretty much dead now.

SWG, when they did the galactic civil war update that allowed you to attack Storm troopers with no TEF penalty, but also added battlegrounds for owpvp. People were angry and said they would leave, eventually no one cared and went back to their business, but the game died for other reasons. The battlegrounds were popular for a few weeks and eventually no one cared.

BDO level 49 pvp quest. For years folks wanted that enabled as a buffer like it was in the Korean version. Most PKrs cried about how they would leave the game if that was enabled. Eventually it was, yet there was no player uprising like they touted and people continue to filter in an out of that game none the wiser. Most of the PKrs were banned for speed hacking anyways (you can find plenty of videos on that)

I imagine most of the folks complaining such as yourself are the vocal minority at this point and the games success or failure is not tied to whether you have the ability to opt into pvp or not.

I remember years ago while Darkfall was in development how some people thought it was going to be the best game for owpvp, and it would beat WoW because of course everyone loves being PKed when on a PvE quest. Well we can see how that worked out.

There seems to be two core groups at odds with some of us stuck in the middle. Those who don't PvP, and those who only want PvP, and then us in the middle who pvp but don't feel the need to enforce our playstyle onto everyone else while getting shouted down by both sides.

Amazon was smart not to remove PvP all together and take the middle ground. Make it an option that you can enable on the fly. You now have a choice as to how you want to play their game.

There was a time when player looting was a thing, I was there. At the time it was how it was, so we just dealt with it. We all had moments of frustration over losing shit in a heated battle. This isn't one of those games were you lose days of work in one bad moment, no big deal. Play it or don't, no one will care.

Raapnaap · January 2020

Tiller said:

Don't mater what anyone here says, their playerbase has obviously stated their opinion and they listened.

They haven't. Just look at the like/dislike ratio on that video. If you want more details, just read the various subs and discord servers.

A lot of good feedback was given, AGS opted to use the nuclear option which nobody interested in the game was asking for.

rickthorian · January 2020

All these people saying, "im a PVE player and I like these changes!" The game wasn't catered for you, and it still had your attention. This completely shooed away the PvP community that they had attracted in the first place. Bait and switch. People have reasons to be upset.

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