CU Changing Route, New Game? AOC Method?

Greatness · January 2020

What do you guys think? Sounds like a similar approach to Ashes of Creation Apocalypse
https://massivelyop.com/2020/01/31/interview-camelot-unchaineds-mark-jacobs-just-announced-a-new-game-called-colossus/

Slapshot1188 · January 2020

Interesting.
It was obvious that they invested so much of their time in the engine because they expected to use it repeatedly as well as market it so this doesn't come as a shock. I'm a bit surprised that he says it will be out before CU... but since CU is always just 18 months away I guess I'm not shocked.

I'm heartened by this part though:

All current CU Backers will get a free copy of Colossus. All current CU Backers will get an additional store credit in Colossus equal to a percentage of their CU Reward Tier times the number of months that they have been Backers. The investors have agreed that a percentage of the profits from Colossus will be spent on CU-only things, including everything from art to coding to design. If Colossus is exceptionally successful, a percentage of the profits will also be given back to CU Backers as credits to their accounts. These credits can be used for paying the monthly subscription fee, as well as anything that can be bought, such as server moves, extra character slots, etc.

Can you talk about the game’s business model itself- are we talking B2P or battle pass or both? We’re assuming lootboxes are out. (:D) Why would you assume that? Of course, no lootboxes, no P2W, etc. as is my way. As to the model itself, B2P with Battle Passes, expansions, sequels, etc.

Will you offer CU refunds for backers who don’t want to wait?

Yep. We’re going to fully own this decision, and if people are unhappy, don’t want to play Colossus, and don’t want to wait for CU any longer, we will of course give them a refund. Now, we hope this doesn’t happen, because we believe that having both CU and Colossus will work to the benefit of both games and communities, but that’s up to our Backers to decide.

ultimateduck · January 2020

Colossus seems like a completely separate entity from CU. I don't see how it applies to CU other than the same company is working on it. As long as it doesn't take resources away from CU, I can't see anyone caring.

Axxar · January 2020

To me the new game looks like it needs a few years of development before it’s ready.

Sovrath · January 2020

It's a smart decision. Instead of risking the entire studio on one game they were able to leverage the work they have done on another game as well as invest in work that helped both games.

And again, if Colossus is successful then that will fuel some of Camelot Unchained.

MightyUnclean · January 2020

Oh my God, they're that behind with CU and now they're dividing the company's efforts with a second game? What a slap in the face to all of us CU backers. I don't care if Mark Jacobs did put a lot of his own money into this new game. What he should have done is put that money into the development of CU, so that their original commitment to all of us is fulfilled. What a swindler.

Oh, and this quote isn't at all alarming:

"What’s the ETA on Colossus and CU now? What about public testing periods and release windows?

For CU, we’re sticking to what we’ve been saying, because everything right now is well, rather in the hands of gamers. If this game does well, CU gets sped up significantly. If it doesn’t, we continue work on CU. In terms of a tentative release date for Colossus, it’s the end of the year."

MightyUnclean · January 2020

I can't believe some of you guys are OK with this and think this is actually a good thing for the development of CU. A small indie company that has been dishonest with us for years about their ability to create a game in a reasonable amount of time is now focusing on a new game, and you're happy? If this was any other developer than Mark Jacobs, you'd be pissed. He's got some kind of hold on a lot of people. No more deception. Time for a refund.

Kumapon · January 2020

I just want CU, before I die. This game looks nice, the engine looks nice. Have nothing but the wishes for the best success. But what I am watching, is just not that interesting.

Mendel · January 2020

From a 30,000 foot level, I like the way the company is acting -- refunds, benefits to backers, etc. They aren't completely abandoning the players that gave them money. However, there was precious little about the actual Colossus game in the article. Maybe it was just the questions asked and the way they were worded, but the most news about this new game seemed to be focused on how developing a second game would aid the development of the first. (If I hear another mention of "Linuxification" again, I may scream. I don't care about Linux).

Still, a new PvE title -- that's something else to keep an eye on.

Slapshot1188 · January 2020

MightyUnclean said:

If this was any other developer than Mark Jacobs, you'd be pissed. He's got some kind of hold on a lot of people.

What he has is a Refund Policy. Which is quite different from his peers. You cannot go and get your money back from AoC because you hate APOC. You can't get your money back from CoE because they have made a mockery of the game. You can't get your money back from Crowfall because they switched from voxels.

You can, and always have been able to, get your money back from CU.

To me, that makes all the difference in the world. And for any that have understandably reached the end of their patience.. they can go get that refund with no hard feelings.

Quizzical · January 2020

So if CU is 18 months away and Colossus is 12 months away, how close to launch will they each be 24 months from now?

MightyUnclean · January 2020

Slapshot1188 said:

MightyUnclean said:

If this was any other developer than Mark Jacobs, you'd be pissed. He's got some kind of hold on a lot of people.

What he has is a Refund Policy. Which is quite different from his peers. You cannot go and get your money back from AoC because you hate APOC. You can't get your money back from CoE because they have made a mockery of the game. You can't get your money back from Crowfall because they switched from voxels.

You can, and always have been able to, get your money back from CU.

To me, that makes all the difference in the world. And for any that have understandably reached the end of their patience.. they can go get that refund with no hard feelings.

He knows that most people are never going to get a refund. And I guess that's on them as much as it is on him.

Sovrath · January 2020

MightyUnclean said:

Oh my God, they're that behind with CU and now they're dividing the company's efforts with a second game? What a slap in the face to all of us CU backers. I don't care if Mark Jacobs did put a lot of his own money into this new game. What he should have done is put that money into the development of CU, so that their original commitment to all of us is fulfilled. What a swindler.

Oh, and this quote isn't at all alarming:
"What’s the ETA on Colossus and CU now? What about public testing periods and release windows?
For CU, we’re sticking to what we’ve been saying, because everything right now is well, rather in the hands of gamers. If this game does well, CU gets sped up significantly. If it doesn’t, we continue work on CU. In terms of a tentative release date for Colossus, it’s the end of the year."

All of us CU backers? I'm a CU backer and I'm fine with it. I'm going to guess that there are others who are also fine with it.

Go, get your money back and be done with it.

Slapshot1188 · January 2020

MightyUnclean said:

Slapshot1188 said:

MightyUnclean said:

If this was any other developer than Mark Jacobs, you'd be pissed. He's got some kind of hold on a lot of people.

What he has is a Refund Policy. Which is quite different from his peers. You cannot go and get your money back from AoC because you hate APOC. You can't get your money back from CoE because they have made a mockery of the game. You can't get your money back from Crowfall because they switched from voxels.

You can, and always have been able to, get your money back from CU.

To me, that makes all the difference in the world. And for any that have understandably reached the end of their patience.. they can go get that refund with no hard feelings.

He knows that most people are never going to get a refund. And I guess that's on them as much as it is on him.

If that is true (and it may well be) then every company should institute the same policy... but they don't because they fear people will use it...

MightyUnclean · January 2020

Face it folks, we got taken for a ride. Which do you think is talking louder to MJ, the old backer money for CU or the new investor money for Colossus?

Eh, I'm just going to get a refund and move on. Some people on here would eat a steaming bowl of shit if Mark Jacobs handed it to them.

Sovrath · January 2020

MightyUnclean said:

Face it folks, we got taken for a ride. Which do you think is talking louder to MJ, the old backer money for CU or the new investor money for Colossus?

No you and others didn't understand what you were getting into.

And the lovely thing is that you don't have to lose a dime. Just get it back.

A, good on them for diversifying.

B, whenever you give money to ANY kickstarter or similar project, give it like you give money to your family. You give it and say goodbye to it. If you get it back the great, if not then you would never have missed it.

There are no guarantees with these things. Ever. That's the truest thing that can be said about crowdfunding. And a great wake up call to those who think that these things can always come to fruition or can be launched without major changes (or on time).

Wizardry · January 2020

LMAO ,another arpg because anyone can make those and for little effort and little cost,just fast cash grabs.This kind of news might as well have stayed hidden,we do not need any more arpg's or fast cheap cash grabs because i am sure Smedley is working on some of those right now.

Kyleran · January 2020

So, they are running out of funds to complete CU, investors are getting restless, no launch date in sight, so they go to the Ashes of Creation playbook and develop a new game to sell, based off of tester feedback even.

Wonder if it will have a cash shop?

Probably.

Yeah, it's become just another indie shitshow like all of the rest.

Changed my mind, I will be asking for a refund now, he broke a promise he made years ago.

He was asked back when BRs were first getting hot, and CF mentioned marketing their engine if he was going to try and take advantage by selling his engine also.

He said no, while he would like to, "it wouldn't be right" to work on another project while CU was so long overdue.

It isn't right.

I applauded his integrity back then...I'll be slagging on him going forward.

Thomas2006 · January 2020

Sovrath said:

MightyUnclean said:

Oh my God, they're that behind with CU and now they're dividing the company's efforts with a second game? What a slap in the face to all of us CU backers. I don't care if Mark Jacobs did put a lot of his own money into this new game. What he should have done is put that money into the development of CU, so that their original commitment to all of us is fulfilled. What a swindler.

Oh, and this quote isn't at all alarming:
"What’s the ETA on Colossus and CU now? What about public testing periods and release windows?
For CU, we’re sticking to what we’ve been saying, because everything right now is well, rather in the hands of gamers. If this game does well, CU gets sped up significantly. If it doesn’t, we continue work on CU. In terms of a tentative release date for Colossus, it’s the end of the year."

All of us CU backers? I'm a CU backer and I'm fine with it. I'm going to guess that there are others who are also fine with it.

Go, get your money back and be done with it.

I also backed CU and I am 100% fine with this. Worse case this new game doesn't do good and CU is still on track for whatever they are projecting it to be at. If the new game does great / amazing then CU gets a big bump via more funding / staff / ect. and on top of that I get some kick back as a CU backer.

MightyUnclean · January 2020

Kyleran said:

So, they are running out of funds to complete CU, investors are getting restless, no launch date in sight, so they go to the Ashes of Creation playbook and develop a new game to sell, based off of tester feedback even.

Wonder if it will have a cash shop?

Probably.

Yeah, it's become just another indie shitshow like all of the rest.

Changed my mind, I will be asking for a refund now, he broke a promise he made years ago.

He was asked back when BRs were first getting hot, and CF mentioned marketing their engine if he was going to try and take advantage by selling his engine also.

He said no, while he would like to, "it wouldn't be right" to work on another project while CU was so long overdue.

It isn't right.

I applauded his integrity back then...I'll be slagging on him going forward.

I think this quote sums things up nicely:

WoLFpwrToday at 6:08 PM

this sounds about right ! ---> dreztina: So a big fish investor jumped the line and got their game before the rest of us, i understand now

WoLFpwrToday at 6:40 PM

Collossus doesnt help CU , backers money made the engine happen now you are making a game with it for an investor ......................

Scorchien · January 2020

I warned yas about Jacobs ... ..

MightyUnclean · January 2020

I'm not very tech savvy, lemme see if I can do this right:

Scot · January 2020

Do we have any indie MMOs yet to come out that have not decided to do a Vokel version (then abandon it), a BR then saw it fail or another game set within the larger MMO; a second game of some sort developed in parallel with the one they were supposed to be making? I think maybe CF but by tomorrow that may have changed.

Just like we see every bad business practice move at light speed from one online game to another, this method of putting the launch back has been jumped on by nearly all the CF MMOs. Now supposedly this will have no effect on the original game launch, even if they decide to give up on the new project or get hardly any cash injection from it. Right.

MightyUnclean · January 2020

Kyleran said:

So, they are running out of funds to complete CU, investors are getting restless, no launch date in sight, so they go to the Ashes of Creation playbook and develop a new game to sell, based off of tester feedback even.

Wonder if it will have a cash shop?

Probably.

Yeah, it's become just another indie shitshow like all of the rest.

Changed my mind, I will be asking for a refund now, he broke a promise he made years ago.

He was asked back when BRs were first getting hot, and CF mentioned marketing their engine if he was going to try and take advantage by selling his engine also.

He said no, while he would like to, "it wouldn't be right" to work on another project while CU was so long overdue.

It isn't right.

I applauded his integrity back then...I'll be slagging on him going forward.

@Kyleran is this the article you're talking about? But of course, Colossus is actually going to speed up the release of CU, so his honesty stands.

https://massivelyop.com/2018/09/17/dragoncon-2018-camelot-unchaineds-mark-jacobs-on-vr-battle-royale-and-more/

"After such an exciting prospect of playing and watching esports in VR, which has the groundwork already laid out, it was a bit surprising to hear a game company say it won’t jump on and ride the industry cash cow. Knowing that your engine can more than handle this but bring something new to the table, why not jump into the hottest craze right now that the top dogs are raking in the dough on? Jacobs said simply, “The H word: honesty. I promised our backers that we wouldn’t to anything major to delay the release of the game.”

Sovrath · February 2020

MightyUnclean said:

Kyleran said:

So, they are running out of funds to complete CU, investors are getting restless, no launch date in sight, so they go to the Ashes of Creation playbook and develop a new game to sell, based off of tester feedback even.

Wonder if it will have a cash shop?

Probably.

Yeah, it's become just another indie shitshow like all of the rest.

Changed my mind, I will be asking for a refund now, he broke a promise he made years ago.

He was asked back when BRs were first getting hot, and CF mentioned marketing their engine if he was going to try and take advantage by selling his engine also.

He said no, while he would like to, "it wouldn't be right" to work on another project while CU was so long overdue.

It isn't right.

I applauded his integrity back then...I'll be slagging on him going forward.

I think this quote sums things up nicely:

WoLFpwrToday at 6:08 PM
this sounds about right ! ---> dreztina: So a big fish investor jumped the line and got their game before the rest of us, i understand now

WoLFpwrToday at 6:40 PM
Collossus doesnt help CU , backers money made the engine happen now you are making a game with it for an investor ......................

Well, if they need that investor's money and without it they tank then that investor's money does help Camelot Unchained.

Unless you are just short sighted. If they go under then what's the point? And you lose your money anyhow.

MightyUnclean · February 2020

Sovrath said:

MightyUnclean said:

Kyleran said:

So, they are running out of funds to complete CU, investors are getting restless, no launch date in sight, so they go to the Ashes of Creation playbook and develop a new game to sell, based off of tester feedback even.

Wonder if it will have a cash shop?

Probably.

Yeah, it's become just another indie shitshow like all of the rest.

Changed my mind, I will be asking for a refund now, he broke a promise he made years ago.

He was asked back when BRs were first getting hot, and CF mentioned marketing their engine if he was going to try and take advantage by selling his engine also.

He said no, while he would like to, "it wouldn't be right" to work on another project while CU was so long overdue.

It isn't right.

I applauded his integrity back then...I'll be slagging on him going forward.

I think this quote sums things up nicely:

WoLFpwrToday at 6:08 PM
this sounds about right ! ---> dreztina: So a big fish investor jumped the line and got their game before the rest of us, i understand now

WoLFpwrToday at 6:40 PM
Collossus doesnt help CU , backers money made the engine happen now you are making a game with it for an investor ......................

Well, if they need that investor's money and without it they tank then that investor's money does help Camelot Unchained.

Unless you are just short sighted. If they go under then what's the point? And you lose your money anyhow.

I think that's the crux of it. They ran out of money to develop CU, so as a last ditch effort, they're developing this new game in an effort to bring in funds to finish the original game. If this is the case, it would simply be more palatable for MJ to admit to it, rather than shoveling us some more developer spin.

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