Wow, MJ is on the Massively comments calling people trolls and in the official forums calling people liars. I think the pressure and the realization of the state of things is getting to him.
I'm a regular both places.
Afaik, he called 3 people trolls, 2 I know for sure are trolls (one seems bitter about CU after being excited for it, the other is a shameless white knight for Star Citizen), and the third I honestly don't know either way. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I recall seeing him make unreasonably fiery criticisms of CSE's/Mark's moral character, so that seems vaguely in the realm of trolling.
The guy on the forums MJ called a liar seems to have been lying lol.
I think this reveal was done badly, but I think your assessment here is at best a hasty conclusion, and also probably wrong. /shrug
Just like Ashes of Creation and Pantheon. I had high hopes for these games, but it is easy to see its vaporware. The development teams are getting paid from the investments until the funds run dry and then poof, the doors close. Then its on to the next ponzi scheme.
You realize that CU is in a playable state right now?
No joke, no gimmick, if you are a backer, you can go log in and play the game right now.
That's not what I would call vaporware.4
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ya know, I might buy into the doom and gloom, If I could not log in and play CU right now.
But I can log into CU right now, and I can see that they are just fine tuning CU, and, well getting the final touches in, to get to an actual Beta. Like mounts for example, they are in the game, in the sense you have a run-speed mount effect, they just need put something graphically in the game.
If they can pump out some BR game, which won't take much since they have all the other parts done, like the engine, models, animation, landscapes, etc. So basically, putting out a BR game using the existing CU frame work should be a swift and easy side project, and give people something else to piss away their time on.
Given where things are, I don't see why anyone would be worried.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ya know, I might buy into the doom and gloom, If I could not log in and play CU right now.
But I can log into CU right now, and I can see that they are just fine tuning CU, and, well getting the final touches in, to get to an actual Beta. Like mounts for example, they are in the game, in the sense you have a run-speed mount effect, they just need put something graphically in the game.
If they can pump out some BR game, which won't take much since they have all the other parts done, like the engine, models, animation, landscapes, etc. So basically, putting out a BR game using the existing CU frame work should be a swift and easy side project, and give people something else to piss away their time on.
Given where things are, I don't see why anyone would be worried.
Seven years in, CU is truly in an alpha state regardless of what they're calling it, they're years behind on their timeline, they're now beholden to outside investors, they're a small team which is now dividing its efforts between two games when they've demonstrated time and again that they can't complete one, many backers feel betrayed and have lost faith, and you don't see why anyone would be worried?
Ya know, I might buy into the doom and gloom, If I could not log in and play CU right now.
But I can log into CU right now, and I can see that they are just fine tuning CU, and, well getting the final touches in, to get to an actual Beta. Like mounts for example, they are in the game, in the sense you have a run-speed mount effect, they just need put something graphically in the game.
If they can pump out some BR game, which won't take much since they have all the other parts done, like the engine, models, animation, landscapes, etc. So basically, putting out a BR game using the existing CU frame work should be a swift and easy side project, and give people something else to piss away their time on.
Given where things are, I don't see why anyone would be worried.
Seven years in, CU is truly in an alpha state regardless of what they're calling it, they're years behind on their timeline, they're now beholden to outside investors, they're a small team which is now dividing its efforts between two games when they've demonstrated time and again that they can't complete one, many backers feel betrayed and have lost faith, and you don't see why anyone would be worried?
This is absolutely worth being worried about.
Which isn't the same as "this is for sure bad."
It's just got strong possibilities for bad as an inextricable part of it.
The part that smells the worst to me was that up until this morning, I think most CU backers assumed we were going to get to see CU but with better ______ gameplay: better ability timing, better feel to character movement, better combat feedback, better group-play tools, better connectivity, better building destruction.
And we assumed that because of what MJ said, and with all the many delays this project has had, we only found out that we wouldn't be getting what we were told we were going to see once the stream started.
Ya know, I might buy into the doom and gloom, If I could not log in and play CU right now.
But I can log into CU right now, and I can see that they are just fine tuning CU, and, well getting the final touches in, to get to an actual Beta. Like mounts for example, they are in the game, in the sense you have a run-speed mount effect, they just need put something graphically in the game.
If they can pump out some BR game, which won't take much since they have all the other parts done, like the engine, models, animation, landscapes, etc. So basically, putting out a BR game using the existing CU frame work should be a swift and easy side project, and give people something else to piss away their time on.
Given where things are, I don't see why anyone would be worried.
Really, not sure why anyone would be worried? Let me spin you a tale. I remember a game called H1Z1. It was playable. Then they came out with a new game mode, a BR game. After a little bit they split the game into two pieces, with the original survival game becoming Just Survive. How's Just Survive doing now?
Normally you are level headed, but you clearly are heading into white knight territory if you can't acknowledge what is wrong with this move.
The ivory tower awaits.
Sorry man, normally you are clear headed yet speak your mind and now you are slightly delusional (And I'm telling you this in a brotherly way)
There are some simple facts.
1, There are no guarantees to crowd funded projects. Period. Not a one. There is no clause that normally gives you a full refund, no clause that says that if they can't deliver in x amount of time then the donors get anything. Nothing. That has to be recognized.
2, Therefore, any money you put into any crowdfunded project is a gamble. If you expect anything, ANYTHING on time, as advertised, then you are naive. Not in an insulting way, just in a you really don't know enough about these projects to fully realize how they can go "tits up" way.
You (royal you) have to accept this or else don't put in money. Why would you, except to say "good luck let's see if you can do it."
As for this latest development; it's clear that they are running out of money. They spent a lot on that engine. So THAT'S where their work really shines. That engine.
They can either go to their donors and say "yup, sorry, we messed up, we are folding" OR they can take what they have done and make the best of it and sell its features to others.
This isn't white knighting. It's logic. It's "we have a project where we spent a LOT of time developing the engine and now we can't finish it so what do we do oh I KNOW we can make a game for an investor and recoup some money so we can finish the project.
I don't get mad at ridiculous things where I know there was never a guarantee. Never. I don't rant or blame with crap like that.
What would I get mad at? If they said "hey game is finished and we are just doing last minute polishing so kickstart some funds to get us to the finish line and THEN they say oops we never had a game.
That would get me mad. As it's a bald faced lie. Still, whenever I've given money to these things I've kissed it good bye. done. It's over. I'll never see it again so let's see if I gave it in vane.
So what are the choices?
Get your money back or not because
a, this game can't come to fruition and it folds or
b, in order to get it done they need to use that engine they invested in.
What will get you a game? Not having them do this for the investor and just putter along until they fold or use what they have to get more money?
1. I don't need guarantees, but I do expect, nay demand people keep their word which Mark clearly didn't, this being just one example.
“The H word: honesty. I promised our backers that we wouldn’t to anything major to delay the release of the game.”
2. As a fully certified armchair developer I looked at Mark's original promise of delivery in two years as a case of unreasonable optimism, thinking not a chance, but hey he's the industry professional, what do I know?
I was wrong btw, I guesstimated 4, maybe 5 years tops, this isnt a full MMORPG, but merely a subset of DAOCs RVR which was a key reason Mark said he could deliver so fast.
Coming up on 7 years so either he is grossly incompetent or...an utter liar.
3. Refunds are great and all but screw that, I want him to deliver the damn game he promised he would and could. At least when I slag on Jeromy Walsh I can give him some leeway in that he truly did not have any idea what he was getting into, whereas this was far from Mark's first rodeo.
Finally, you closed with the argument backers... no white knights often make to excuse the delays, exaggerated promises, unrealistic dates, that the ends somehow justify the means and if these devs didn't do all of this then there would have been no hope of anything new or different.
To that I say, just as Rorschach said in the Watchmen, "never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon, that's the difference between you and me..."
In other words, if all of the douchery is what it takes to deliver these games, the gaming world would be better off without them, and I am perfectly fine seeing them fail.
I realize none of this bothers you...hence it is my job to make sure you come to understand the error of your ways.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I used to give Mark Jacobs a lot of leeway because everything takes longer than planned and they had issues getting staff etc, their one saving grace was a decent refund policy no matter how long you've been a backer (CIG take note) but damn, he has made a bad move with this decision.
Nobody gives a shit if it's being made using his/investor money, the free copy is no conslation at all, these things are of no comfort whatsoever. All they want is what they fucking well paid for.
Why did they have to do this time consuming and resource heavy shift to Linux. Was this necessary? All I read was much of the problem was this Linuxification. If they hadn't done that, the game might already be done by now and they would not have had to make Colossus too as a contingency.
as a backer of cu im pretty anoyed by this fact that they developing another game ontop of cu.
I did not asked for this.. and i didnt backed up a mp pve title.
cu has been in development for so long already.. i have patience tho... but resources and time investment will be directed into another game. aswell now.. which could be used to speed up the progess for cu.
Altho im not gonna refund... but im pretty baffled
Could be just an excuse to give up on CU cause no big publisher picked them up. That may have been the plan all along for some of these crowdfunded MMO titles they may have just been fishing for buyouts. If the same situation with Mythic EA happened with CSE then whoever the investors were may have made a quick buyout profit but PC game companies aren't what they were even 7 years ago. If it wasn't for streamers and Fortnite breathing unnatural life into PC games the genre would've probably gone the way of the cassette tape years ago or be 100% owned by Tencent.
Think also about if they wanted to make money to help fund CU they could slap together 1-2 Mobile games for a fraction of the effort and make 1000 times more money. Maybe the truth sank in that no buyouts are coming so those investors told CSE to just make anything they can fast to recoup what they could.
This was the project I had put the most faith in and backed but who knows maybe it was just a scam from the start.
There is also another reality for developers who make MMORPGs these days. Previously you could could continue to get money when you launch from the box price and subscriptions. The subscription part is gone now. When you launch a game you cannot continue to work on it in any large scale because no more money will be coming in, there are no subs. They have to give a lot away too to the backers. They are in a bind. What they can make before and during development is all the money they can actually make to develop the game. They have to have a viable product to launch at this point and if they don't they have to think of something else.
There is also another reality for developers who make MMORPGs these days. Previously you could could continue to get money when you launch from the box price and subscriptions. The subscription part is gone now. When you launch a game you cannot continue to work on it in any large scale because no more money will be coming in, there are no subs. They have to give a lot away too to the backers. They are in a bind. What they can make before and during development is all the money they can actually make to develop the game. They have to have a viable product to launch at this point and if they don't they have to think of something else.
What you say they have to "give away to the backers" the backers already paid for... When I bought my backer pack it included membership/sub for a year I think so CU was going to have a sub... there's also nothing preventing them from charging a btp fee for their product...
The move of saying they need to create another game to help fund their original game doesn't make sense cause there's no guarantee it'll make any money especially now in 2020 just look at the Ashes BR. It's like they are looking for an exit and playing into people's lack of knowledge of how little PC games currently make especially ones slapped together in a year... Also pulling the New World and Torchlight Frontiers tactic of "the players told us we should do this" + in this case "the investor told us". The whole "doing this will help us with that" is like a person trying to convince another person that their investments aren't completely lost. Prolonging the bad news for as long as possible while they figure out how to say it.
All of this stuff raised the level of suspicion around CU from like 0 to 9 in a single day.
There is also another reality for developers who make MMORPGs these days. Previously you could could continue to get money when you launch from the box price and subscriptions. The subscription part is gone now. When you launch a game you cannot continue to work on it in any large scale because no more money will be coming in, there are no subs. They have to give a lot away too to the backers. They are in a bind. What they can make before and during development is all the money they can actually make to develop the game. They have to have a viable product to launch at this point and if they don't they have to think of something else.
What you say they have to "give away to the backers" the backers already paid for... When I bought my backer pack it included membership/sub for a year I think so CU was going to have a sub... there's also nothing preventing them from charging a btp fee for their product...
The move of saying they need to create another game to help fund their original game doesn't make sense cause there's no guarantee it'll make any money especially now in 2020 just look at the Ashes BR. It's like they are looking for an exit and playing into people's lack of knowledge of how little PC games currently make especially ones slapped together in a year... Also pulling the New World and Torchlight Frontiers tactic of "the players told us we should do this" + in this case "the investor told us". The whole "doing this will help us with that" is like a person trying to convince another person that their investments aren't completely lost. Prolonging the bad news for as long as possible while they figure out how to say it.
All of this stuff raised the level of suspicion around CU from like 0 to 9 in a single day.
True but I am talking about the funds coming in. They have to write off those copies. I am not questioning whether the backers should get them but about the money coming in and the reality. While you may argue there is nothing preventing them from asking for a box price or not going F2P but you and I both know the reality these days is that games that ask for a box price B2P are not as popular as F2P and this is a PvP game and they need a sustainable number of players to even get the game going. This isn't a game like a PvE game where a smaller number of players can sustain it while soloing and following the story. You need people or you have no massive siege PvP. Best way to get that is F2P.
There is also another reality for developers who make MMORPGs these days. Previously you could could continue to get money when you launch from the box price and subscriptions. The subscription part is gone now. When you launch a game you cannot continue to work on it in any large scale because no more money will be coming in, there are no subs. They have to give a lot away too to the backers. They are in a bind. What they can make before and during development is all the money they can actually make to develop the game. They have to have a viable product to launch at this point and if they don't they have to think of something else.
What you say they have to "give away to the backers" the backers already paid for... When I bought my backer pack it included membership/sub for a year I think so CU was going to have a sub... there's also nothing preventing them from charging a btp fee for their product...
The move of saying they need to create another game to help fund their original game doesn't make sense cause there's no guarantee it'll make any money especially now in 2020 just look at the Ashes BR. It's like they are looking for an exit and playing into people's lack of knowledge of how little PC games currently make especially ones slapped together in a year... Also pulling the New World and Torchlight Frontiers tactic of "the players told us we should do this" + in this case "the investor told us". The whole "doing this will help us with that" is like a person trying to convince another person that their investments aren't completely lost. Prolonging the bad news for as long as possible while they figure out how to say it.
All of this stuff raised the level of suspicion around CU from like 0 to 9 in a single day.
True but I am talking about the funds coming in. They have to write off those copies. I am not questioning whether the backers should get them but about the money coming in and the reality. While you may argue there is nothing preventing them from asking for a box price or not going F2P but you and I both know the reality these days is that games that ask for a box price B2P are not as popular as F2P and this is a PvP game and they need a sustainable number of players to even get the game going. This isn't a game like a PvE game where a smaller number of players can sustain it while soloing and following the story. You need people or you have no massive siege PvP. Best way to get that is F2P.
Not true, an outdated theory that Smedley should have taken with him into exile... Go steam charts ESO and BDO both btp games have more players than all of these ftp MMO's combined...
Lotro DDO Tera STO Albion Neverwinter EVE EQ1 EQ2 Champions DCUO Rift Trove
Also WoW most likely still the most played is btp with sub.
BDO is like 5 bucks , and suddenly a poster child for PvP. When most times people decry the game in every example but you're using it to prove your point. ROFL.
Those games you listed are not pure PvP games they are supported by PvE players who hardly PvP looking at the list with a couple of exceptions like EVE. You just proved my point thanks. Camelot does not have any PvE so no PvE players who want to PvE will play it. There goes your player base that might have been higher were there any PvE in the game.
How popular is PvP on ESO? Isn't ESO a PvE game mainly and the same with WoW. You are giving examples of games that have mainly PvE. Those games we know will work as subbed and B2P look at FFXIV. There is no question of that. But Camelot isn't like that and not even close.
I played BDO and loved it and never even PvPed even once. What could I do in CU huh ?
I am not going to lie I am very upset with this development. You asked us to kickstart CU we believed in it and I had hoped to be playing something new with my old DAoC crew. To claim that Clossus is speeding up our ability to get CU is disingenuous. Tie yourself all up in knots and believe it yourself, I can believe that it may help improve the quality of CU but in no way does this get me to playing CU with my old DAoC crew any faster.
Evidently the stream was pretty funny to watch as well.
Yeah reddit is pretty on point. This one hit home
Right? There was no CU news, no beta date, no progression update, no working game to show, no release date - there was NOTHING. BUT HEY LOOK, we made a new and terrible console PvE tower defense game instead that somehow should help in the development CU. Please wait another 3-4 years for Beta. Thanks for the 7 years of waiting.
Normally you are level headed, but you clearly are heading into white knight territory if you can't acknowledge what is wrong with this move.
The ivory tower awaits.
Sorry man, normally you are clear headed yet speak your mind and now you are slightly delusional (And I'm telling you this in a brotherly way)
There are some simple facts.
1, There are no guarantees to crowd funded projects. Period. Not a one. There is no clause that normally gives you a full refund, no clause that says that if they can't deliver in x amount of time then the donors get anything. Nothing. That has to be recognized.
2, Therefore, any money you put into any crowdfunded project is a gamble. If you expect anything, ANYTHING on time, as advertised, then you are naive. Not in an insulting way, just in a you really don't know enough about these projects to fully realize how they can go "tits up" way.
You (royal you) have to accept this or else don't put in money. Why would you, except to say "good luck let's see if you can do it."
As for this latest development; it's clear that they are running out of money. They spent a lot on that engine. So THAT'S where their work really shines. That engine.
They can either go to their donors and say "yup, sorry, we messed up, we are folding" OR they can take what they have done and make the best of it and sell its features to others.
This isn't white knighting. It's logic. It's "we have a project where we spent a LOT of time developing the engine and now we can't finish it so what do we do oh I KNOW we can make a game for an investor and recoup some money so we can finish the project.
I don't get mad at ridiculous things where I know there was never a guarantee. Never. I don't rant or blame with crap like that.
What would I get mad at? If they said "hey game is finished and we are just doing last minute polishing so kickstart some funds to get us to the finish line and THEN they say oops we never had a game.
That would get me mad. As it's a bald faced lie. Still, whenever I've given money to these things I've kissed it good bye. done. It's over. I'll never see it again so let's see if I gave it in vane.
So what are the choices?
Get your money back or not because
a, this game can't come to fruition and it folds or
b, in order to get it done they need to use that engine they invested in.
What will get you a game? Not having them do this for the investor and just putter along until they fold or use what they have to get more money?
1. I don't need guarantees, but I do expect, nay demand people keep their word which Mark clearly didn't, this being just one example.
“The H word: honesty. I promised our backers that we wouldn’t to anything major to delay the release of the game.”
2. As a fully certified armchair developer I looked at Mark's original promise of delivery in two years as a case of unreasonable optimism, thinking not a chance, but hey he's the industry professional, what do I know?
I was wrong btw, I guesstimated 4, maybe 5 years tops, this isnt a full MMORPG, but merely a subset of DAOCs RVR which was a key reason Mark said he could deliver so fast.
Coming up on 7 years so either he is grossly incompetent or...an utter liar.
3. Refunds are great and all but screw that, I want him to deliver the damn game he promised he would and could. At least when I slag on Jeromy Walsh I can give him some leeway in that he truly did not have any idea what he was getting into, whereas this was far from Mark's first rodeo.
Finally, you closed with the argument backers... no white knights often make to excuse the delays, exaggerated promises, unrealistic dates, that the ends somehow justify the means and if these devs didn't do all of this then there would have been no hope of anything new or different.
To that I say, just as Rorschach said in the Watchmen, "never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon, that's the difference between you and me..."
In other words, if all of the douchery is what it takes to deliver these games, the gaming world would be better off without them, and I am perfectly fine seeing them fail.
I realize none of this bothers you...hence it is my job to make sure you come to understand the error of your ways.
No worries, I'll be here all week.
Cheers
I agree with everything you said except the refunds. That’s an actual mechanism to hold him accountable that is lacking elsewhere. He has sought outside investment as opposed to pushing sales and the bulk of the money raised is from investors not backers. There are no monthly sales. No Kickstarterversaries. No made up in game holidays with a cash shop tie in. This is the result of that choice.
I do not blame a single person who goes and gets their refund. As a matter of fact I hope many do. I’m just not there yet.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Why bitch about what they're doing if you can easily and quickly get your money back?
<snip>
Not that simple imo.
We are not talking about CU "pre-orders" though.
For "backers", some at least, there will be an "emotional" side. Hope, dreams and all that stuff.
Should there be? Maybe not but if "backers" were simply interested in the money side they would put it in the bank to accumulate interest and buy the game when as, when, if it comes out.
What few backers there are that is - as I commented last year I was surprised to find that the crowdfunding total was only $4M+. I assume it hasn't gone up.
And never, in a month of Sundays, could you describe backing CU as the "same" as making a pre-order.
Why bitch about what they're doing if you can easily and quickly get your money back?
I'm not aware of any other KS MMO project that makes it this simple to act on your buyers' remorse.
90 days is quickly? Okay.
Its all relative.
I am not aware that CU is fundamentally any different from any other KS mmo. Its had reported "problems" as have others.
The big difference is that CU, in almost every respect, has been "off the radar". And there are not that many backers.
As I said last year - when I checked a link to the crowdfunding total - I was surprised at how little crowdfunded money had been raised and how, for all intents and purposes, CU was now an investor led project.
BDO is like 5 bucks , and suddenly a poster child for PvP. When most times people decry the game in every example but you're using it to prove your point. ROFL.
Those games you listed are not pure PvP games they are supported by PvE players who hardly PvP looking at the list with a couple of exceptions like EVE. You just proved my point thanks. Camelot does not have any PvE so no PvE players who want to PvE will play it. There goes your player base that might have been higher were there any PvE in the game.
How popular is PvP on ESO? Isn't ESO a PvE game mainly and the same with WoW. You are giving examples of games that have mainly PvE. Those games we know will work as subbed and B2P look at FFXIV. There is no question of that. But Camelot isn't like that and not even close.
I played BDO and loved it and never even PvPed even once. What could I do in CU huh ?
BDO charges $5 because they learned from AA that a completely ftp MMO is a death sentence. That $5 prevents the completely ftp crowd from destroying the game. Ftp moba, br, shooter is fine but anything that has progression MMO style doesn't survive as ftp. A good example right now is Albion going ftp and they just had to increase their sub price cause most of the paying players left and the majority of their playerbase is completely ftp. CU was supposed to be a PvP MMO with sub.
Interesting wording from MJ in the comments on the MOP article. Not a penny..."in 2019." And this completely ignores the fact that the backer funding for CU is what allowed them to create the engine that Colossus uses to begin with. I guess the real question is, was this a move made out of desperation because they were running out of funds for CU, or was this the intent all along?
Mark Jacobs
BB, they are not financing two games. I and the investors financed Colossus. Not a penny of money from the CU donation pool was spent on Colossus in 2019. I put in more of my money as did the investors.
I don't believe it was MJ's "intent" when he started out. Sure he still wants to deliver as well. Dreams collide with reality though. And I think they ran out of crowd funding long ago.
A more pointed question would be: how to square these words with CU launching by the end of 2019?
Comments
No joke, no gimmick, if you are a backer, you can go log in and play the game right now.
That's not what I would call vaporware.4
But I can log into CU right now, and I can see that they are just fine tuning CU, and, well getting the final touches in, to get to an actual Beta. Like mounts for example, they are in the game, in the sense you have a run-speed mount effect, they just need put something graphically in the game.
If they can pump out some BR game, which won't take much since they have all the other parts done, like the engine, models, animation, landscapes, etc. So basically, putting out a BR game using the existing CU frame work should be a swift and easy side project, and give people something else to piss away their time on.
Given where things are, I don't see why anyone would be worried.
“The H word: honesty. I promised our backers that we wouldn’t to anything major to delay the release of the game.”
2. As a fully certified armchair developer I looked at Mark's original promise of delivery in two years as a case of unreasonable optimism, thinking not a chance, but hey he's the industry professional, what do I know?
I was wrong btw, I guesstimated 4, maybe 5 years tops, this isnt a full MMORPG, but merely a subset of DAOCs RVR which was a key reason Mark said he could deliver so fast.
Coming up on 7 years so either he is grossly incompetent or...an utter liar.
3. Refunds are great and all but screw that, I want him to deliver the damn game he promised he would and could. At least when I slag on Jeromy Walsh I can give him some leeway in that he truly did not have any idea what he was getting into, whereas this was far from Mark's first rodeo.
Finally, you closed with the argument backers... no white knights often make to excuse the delays, exaggerated promises, unrealistic dates, that the ends somehow justify the means and if these devs didn't do all of this then there would have been no hope of anything new or different.
To that I say, just as Rorschach said in the Watchmen, "never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon, that's the difference between you and me..."
In other words, if all of the douchery is what it takes to deliver these games, the gaming world would be better off without them, and I am perfectly fine seeing them fail.
I realize none of this bothers you...hence it is my job to make sure you come to understand the error of your ways.
No worries, I'll be here all week.
Cheers
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Just saying
I did not asked for this.. and i didnt backed up a mp pve title.
cu has been in development for so long already.. i have patience tho... but resources and time investment will be directed into another game. aswell now.. which could be used to speed up the progess for cu.
Altho im not gonna refund... but im pretty baffled
Think also about if they wanted to make money to help fund CU they could slap together 1-2 Mobile games for a fraction of the effort and make 1000 times more money. Maybe the truth sank in that no buyouts are coming so those investors told CSE to just make anything they can fast to recoup what they could.
This was the project I had put the most faith in and backed but who knows maybe it was just a scam from the start.
Save us Crowfall, you're our only hope...
When I bought my backer pack it included membership/sub for a year I think so CU was going to have a sub... there's also nothing preventing them from charging a btp fee for their product...
The move of saying they need to create another game to help fund their original game doesn't make sense cause there's no guarantee it'll make any money especially now in 2020 just look at the Ashes BR. It's like they are looking for an exit and playing into people's lack of knowledge of how little PC games currently make especially ones slapped together in a year... Also pulling the New World and Torchlight Frontiers tactic of "the players told us we should do this" + in this case "the investor told us". The whole "doing this will help us with that" is like a person trying to convince another person that their investments aren't completely lost. Prolonging the bad news for as long as possible while they figure out how to say it.
All of this stuff raised the level of suspicion around CU from like 0 to 9 in a single day.
Go steam charts ESO and BDO both btp games have more players than all of these ftp MMO's combined...
Lotro
DDO
Tera
STO
Albion
Neverwinter
EVE
EQ1
EQ2
Champions
DCUO
Rift
Trove
Also WoW most likely still the most played is btp with sub.
Those games you listed are not pure PvP games they are supported by PvE players who hardly PvP looking at the list with a couple of exceptions like EVE. You just proved my point thanks. Camelot does not have any PvE so no PvE players who want to PvE will play it. There goes your player base that might have been higher were there any PvE in the game.
How popular is PvP on ESO? Isn't ESO a PvE game mainly and the same with WoW. You are giving examples of games that have mainly PvE. Those games we know will work as subbed and B2P look at FFXIV. There is no question of that. But Camelot isn't like that and not even close.
I played BDO and loved it and never even PvPed even once. What could I do in CU huh ?
Right? There was no CU news, no beta date, no progression update, no working game to show, no release date - there was NOTHING. BUT HEY LOOK, we made a new and terrible console PvE tower defense game instead that somehow should help in the development CU. Please wait another 3-4 years for Beta. Thanks for the 7 years of waiting.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Not that simple imo.
We are not talking about CU "pre-orders" though.
For "backers", some at least, there will be an "emotional" side. Hope, dreams and all that stuff.
Should there be? Maybe not but if "backers" were simply interested in the money side they would put it in the bank to accumulate interest and buy the game when as, when, if it comes out.
What few backers there are that is - as I commented last year I was surprised to find that the crowdfunding total was only $4M+. I assume it hasn't gone up.
And never, in a month of Sundays, could you describe backing CU as the "same" as making a pre-order.
I am not aware that CU is fundamentally any different from any other KS mmo. Its had reported "problems" as have others.
The big difference is that CU, in almost every respect, has been "off the radar". And there are not that many backers.
As I said last year - when I checked a link to the crowdfunding total - I was surprised at how little crowdfunded money had been raised and how, for all intents and purposes, CU was now an investor led project.
A more pointed question would be: how to square these words with CU launching by the end of 2019?