I'm an older dude and I don't find this bad, doesn't look any different than WoW pvp to me which is a decent pace....could be faster imo. Probably just a preference thing for you.
Wildstar was the last MMO that had me like WTF?! Just because of the bazillion things I had to dodge while still expected to use abilities.
Constant movement, constant ability spam with what appears to be a 1/2 second cooldown. To see it really get frantic, jump forward in the video a bit to the melee combat. I'll be honest guys, most modern MMO combat just isn't for me. I'm too old and slow. MMOs have left me behind! Anyone else in the same boat?
It looked like all he was doing was spamming 1 to kill a unsuspecting miner char. I'm also getting older (30+ years old), but it isn't becoming a hassle to press keys on my keyboard. I would recommend you try console gaming if you're having trouble stretching your hands or differentiating more than 4 buttons.
Constant movement, constant ability spam with what appears to be a 1/2 second cooldown. To see it really get frantic, jump forward in the video a bit to the melee combat. I'll be honest guys, most modern MMO combat just isn't for me. I'm too old and slow. MMOs have left me behind! Anyone else in the same boat?
Only 4-5 powers are used in conjunction with dodges and movement. You can build your toon for less or more in CF. The other 4-5 powers are either buffs or counters that are situational or on/off. If you choose to play a druid with 2 trays and power added discs, yea... you have more options of play but often less dps. Just play an Alpha Warrior Centaur and its like a 3 power rotation. I even add archer powers for chase downs to one of my Champ builds. Yea and get an old person crutch... a left hand programmable keypad, works wonders.
The problem isn't the other guy's reflexes it's the way some classes are designed that are ultra cheese.
Zybak although informative plays the most cheese characters that exist. If you go back and watch all his videos he basically unintentionally shows every mechanic that should be changed or even removed from the game. Perma stealth, infinite kite, long duration damage immunity are all things that will be abused like crazy when the game comes out and determine the most douchebag meta that has ever existed in any game. All of those have easy fixes though like stealth limit, kite fatigue and limited damage immunity. I haven't played the game in a while so dunno if they changed those things recently.
I don't know if that is the type of game the devs want to have where just a limited amount of classes are played but seeing as there is no limit to how many of a certain class per server can be created there will be entire guilds of all stealth, damage immune etc.
I personally don't care about meta or being the best so I'm just going to play what I think is fun at launch even if it's underpowered and I die a lot. The race variety in CF was the part I liked the most in my time played along with some of the less op classes. Healers really felt like a healer so there's that at least.
Finding a group of other older gamers to play with may be the solution to counter the fast reflex younger people. Maybe strength in numbers and coordination.
The so called cheese is easily countered with the right build... the fun of ek internal practice fights is not only testing builds but finding that harvester build that turns on and chases Zybak off... he too slippery to kill unless you set up an ambush and he will just lurk and make your harvest run inefficient. Most who copy his builds fail miserably. Having Zybak in my guild is that two edge sword of pissing off people and slowing opposing guilds progression. 1v1 is not where CF shines... it does in small scale open field up to 20v20 like shadowbane does... forts can be fun up to 30v30 then the healing makes ttk an attrition battle of picking off strays. Sieges are dynamic versions of the attrition battle, hopefully mostly lag free in this latest and final patch of pre-alpha testing. The cool part of this next iteration is spreading out the activities, fighting and tasks to meet win conditions... not just holding towers, forts, and keeps.. but harvesting, crafting, caravaning, head taking, sacrificing your way to victory. Ideally spreading the fights out to smaller and more open field between the sieges and fort windows.
If I want to play an arcade game, I can play those. For me, though, an MMORPG is a role-playing game focused on a living world and your role in it. If the only role you can play is an arcade game, then no thanks.
Damn man. I'm old but I still play some of the twitchiest gamaes around. Crowfall looks slow as balls compared to something like PSO2 on Ultra or Vindictus on like any raid when folks play that game.
Still the most twitchiest mmo I ever played for dodging out hits and ensuring pure out no hits? Ultima Online. Still can't believe how fast we used to scroll drag stuff.
Watched some old video from a old computer of a pvp war in UO and holy bullet hell.
Then again you just might like those slower games period. Because I'm still playing bullet hells and I'm pretty sure half of you are whipper snappers to my ass.
If I want to play an arcade game, I can play those. For me, though, an MMORPG is a role-playing game focused on a living world and your role in it. If the only role you can play is an arcade game, then no thanks.
What you talking about Willis? this is full PvP mmo open world with persistent progression and long campaign worlds to fight over and build on... yes, they reset for win conditions but nothing else does, stale worlds die regardless. Me thinks you haven't really seen it... nothing is arcade like or even moba like. Free Beta in April is the word for people with registered free accounts. Free people will get to play in several waves.
Well, i agree with some of the older guys. Since im old as a Impala, i am another one looking for something closer to L2, with tab targeting system, or at least not skill spamming while dodging, rolling, back flipping... Miss the older MMO Style... Those Asians stuff kills me....
Constant movement, constant ability spam with what appears to be a 1/2 second cooldown. To see it really get frantic, jump forward in the video a bit to the melee combat. I'll be honest guys, most modern MMO combat just isn't for me. I'm too old and slow. MMOs have left me behind! Anyone else in the same boat?
I actually think Crowfall combat is fairly easy compared to other PVP games I've played like Darkfall. Crowfall is somewhere along the lines of Guild Wars 2 or ESO.
Well, i agree with some of the older guys. Since im old as a Impala, i am another one looking for something closer to L2, with tab targeting system, or at least not skill spamming while dodging, rolling, back flipping... Miss the older MMO Style... Those Asians stuff kills me....
This definitely is not asian style for fights or grind... this is western mmo switched from tab target to aiming hit box.
Yeah, I'm over struggling, being challenged a ton or getting so frustrated I almost pop a blood vessel in my video games. I don't think that's an age thing though, as I'm sure there are guys/gals older than me that like to be challenged that way.
I'm more about enjoying the journey/story now I guess. My life makes me struggle plenty, so I mostly like games that help entertain me.
Maybe I'm totally wrong about CF combat. It's actually slower and pretty basic, or can be with the right build? My biggest problem in action MMOs these days is attacking while in the middle of movement and dodge rolling. My fingers get twisted in knots!
Constant movement, constant ability spam with what appears to be a 1/2 second cooldown. To see it really get frantic, jump forward in the video a bit to the melee combat. I'll be honest guys, most modern MMO combat just isn't for me. I'm too old and slow. MMOs have left me behind! Anyone else in the same boat?
You know what they say, babe: use it or lose it. They also say that practice makes perfect...this, too, is perfectly true. Quick story: My husband and I started playing GW2 a couple years ago and right from the start we knew he was going to have problems...lots and lots of problems. You see, my husband is a really big guy, with really big hands and fingers; this made it practically impossible for him to execute the rapid skill rotations and dodges necessary to play the game. So, we got him one of those keyboards with the really big buttons...the ones for the visually impaired. This helped him a ton, but it still wasn't enough...so, he started doing dexterity training exercises, which was comical at first, but over time he got better and better. Long story short: at this point he is a much better player - better than most, I would say. So, yes, it is possible to "get gud", if you have the determination and enough patience to see it through.
The question that you have to ask yourself is: is a shitty little game like Crowfall worth all that time and effort?
Sometimes the problem isn't so much too little practice with button pushing (or more to the point, mouse movement), but too much. Games that require constant, precise mouse movements are repetitive strain injuries waiting to happen. Maybe you can do that for a while if you're still young. But that's just asking for trouble as you get older, especially if you have a job that involves using a computer all day before you come home to play games.
Guild Wars 2 isn't really a problem here, as it doesn't often require precise aiming, so you scarcely have to use a mouse at all. But first person shooters where you have to aim precisely or else you don't deal damage at all are a big problem. The video didn't make it clear how precisely you have to aim in Crowfall, as it's hard to tell the difference between hard targeting where being off by two pixels means you missed versus soft targeting where the game assumes you intended to hit something and picks the closest target unless you're not even close to pointing at anything.
The video didn't make it clear how precisely you have to aim in Crowfall, as it's hard to tell the difference between hard targeting where being off by two pixels means you missed versus soft targeting where the game assumes you intended to hit something and picks the closest target unless you're not even close to pointing at anything.
Awhile back we saw the greyshade of the pill shaped hit box which has changed size in several combat iterations... too big and easily slopped, too small and even hard to hit in melee... just right and only hard to hit at very long ranges. Fyi the hit boxes were the same size for all races. This was back in the vid where they showed the Fae for the first time and gliding...
I actually think Crowfall combat is fairly easy compared to other PVP games I've played like Darkfall. Crowfall is somewhere along the lines of Guild Wars 2 or ESO.
ESO ? The MMO with shittiest combat ever made ? Thanks, but no thanks
The video didn't make it clear how precisely you have to aim in Crowfall, as it's hard to tell the difference between hard targeting where being off by two pixels means you missed versus soft targeting where the game assumes you intended to hit something and picks the closest target unless you're not even close to pointing at anything.
Awhile back we saw the greyshade of the pill shaped hit box which has changed size in several combat iterations... too big and easily slopped, too small and even hard to hit in melee... just right and only hard to hit at very long ranges. Fyi the hit boxes were the same size for all races. This was back in the vid where they showed the Fae for the first time and gliding...
That really doesn't answer the question. With a mouse, it's fairly easy to click right on a fairly small icon. With a controller, it's easy to get kind of close, but impractical to quickly click on a small box like you can with a mouse. Depending on how the game is designed, that can make a huge difference.
There are at least three ways to handle it:
1) Hard targeting, where if you click right on your target, you'll hit, and if you're off slightly, you'll miss. This is common in first person shooters. It also requires heavy mouse usage and makes controllers basically unusable.
2) Soft targeting, where the game assumes that you intended to hit something, and will adjust your aim to the nearest target unless you're way off. See, for example, Neverwinter. If there's only one enemy in range, then you don't have to point right at it, but there will be a pretty large box where if you're at all close, the game figures out that you intended to shoot at that enemy and fires your attack in the right direction. That way, even if your aim isn't very good, most attacks will hit something unless your target actively does something to dodge it. If several enemies are close to each other, you have to aim well to hit the particular one you intended. But there's a huge difference between your aim being off meaning that you hit the "wrong" opponent versus most of your shots hitting nothing at all.
3) Bullet hell dodging, where you fire a lot of shots quickly, but projectiles move slowly enough that any particular one is readily dodged. Get enough people firing enough shots and your enemies can't dodge them all. Or sometimes, you just have to get closer so that they won't have as much time to dodge. This makes aiming nearly irrelevant, as even if there isn't any aiming assist as with soft targeting, pointing right at where your enemy is now isn't really any better than being off to the side a little.
1) Hard targeting, where if you click right on your target, you'll hit, and if you're off slightly, you'll miss. This is common in first person shooters. It also requires heavy mouse usage and makes controllers basically unusable.
2) Soft targeting, where the game assumes that you intended to hit something, and will adjust your aim to the nearest target unless you're way off. See, for example, Neverwinter. If there's only one enemy in range, then you don't have to point right at it, but there will be a pretty large box where if you're at all close, the game figures out that you intended to shoot at that enemy and fires your attack in the right direction. That way, even if your aim isn't very good, most attacks will hit something unless your target actively does something to dodge it. If several enemies are close to each other, you have to aim well to hit the particular one you intended. But there's a huge difference between your aim being off meaning that you hit the "wrong" opponent versus most of your shots hitting nothing at all.
3) Bullet hell dodging, where you fire a lot of shots quickly, but projectiles move slowly enough that any particular one is readily dodged. Get enough people firing enough shots and your enemies can't dodge them all. Or sometimes, you just have to get closer so that they won't have as much time to dodge. This makes aiming nearly irrelevant, as even if there isn't any aiming assist as with soft targeting, pointing right at where your enemy is now isn't really any better than being off to the side a little.
So, what does Crowfall use?
It's HARD TARGET and like I said we have tried several hit box sizes... you can dodge range attacks however the hit is "ray" determined at the time point of the attackers key press (ray casting and not projectile). You cannot dodge a hit that is in flight but movement makes misses if the attacker is not directly on your hit box pill. More skill than tab target but not arcade assisted or hard small box precise aim.
1) Hard targeting, where if you click right on your target, you'll hit, and if you're off slightly, you'll miss. This is common in first person shooters. It also requires heavy mouse usage and makes controllers basically unusable.
2) Soft targeting, where the game assumes that you intended to hit something, and will adjust your aim to the nearest target unless you're way off. See, for example, Neverwinter. If there's only one enemy in range, then you don't have to point right at it, but there will be a pretty large box where if you're at all close, the game figures out that you intended to shoot at that enemy and fires your attack in the right direction. That way, even if your aim isn't very good, most attacks will hit something unless your target actively does something to dodge it. If several enemies are close to each other, you have to aim well to hit the particular one you intended. But there's a huge difference between your aim being off meaning that you hit the "wrong" opponent versus most of your shots hitting nothing at all.
3) Bullet hell dodging, where you fire a lot of shots quickly, but projectiles move slowly enough that any particular one is readily dodged. Get enough people firing enough shots and your enemies can't dodge them all. Or sometimes, you just have to get closer so that they won't have as much time to dodge. This makes aiming nearly irrelevant, as even if there isn't any aiming assist as with soft targeting, pointing right at where your enemy is now isn't really any better than being off to the side a little.
So, what does Crowfall use?
It's HARD TARGET and like I said we have tried several hit box sizes... you can dodge range attacks however the hit is "ray" determined at the time point of the attackers key press (ray casting and not projectile). You cannot dodge a hit that is in flight but movement makes misses if the attacker is not directly on your hit box pill. More skill than tab target but not arcade assisted or hard small box precise aim.
Thank you for your explanation. That pretty much confirms that I should give up on the game, as it's going to be basically unplayable without heavy mouse usage of the sort that I can't do.
Comments
Wildstar was the last MMO that had me like WTF?! Just because of the bazillion things I had to dodge while still expected to use abilities.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Crowfall looks slow as balls compared to something like PSO2 on Ultra or Vindictus on like any raid when folks play that game.
Still the most twitchiest mmo I ever played for dodging out hits and ensuring pure out no hits?
Ultima Online. Still can't believe how fast we used to scroll drag stuff.
Watched some old video from a old computer of a pvp war in UO and holy bullet hell.
Then again you just might like those slower games period. Because I'm still playing bullet hells and I'm pretty sure half of you are whipper snappers to my ass.
Since im old as a Impala, i am another one looking for something closer to L2, with tab targeting system, or at least not skill spamming while dodging, rolling, back flipping... Miss the older MMO Style... Those Asians stuff kills me....
I'm more about enjoying the journey/story now I guess. My life makes me struggle plenty, so I mostly like games that help entertain me.
Video games are still my favorite delusion.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
Guild Wars 2 isn't really a problem here, as it doesn't often require precise aiming, so you scarcely have to use a mouse at all. But first person shooters where you have to aim precisely or else you don't deal damage at all are a big problem. The video didn't make it clear how precisely you have to aim in Crowfall, as it's hard to tell the difference between hard targeting where being off by two pixels means you missed versus soft targeting where the game assumes you intended to hit something and picks the closest target unless you're not even close to pointing at anything.
There are at least three ways to handle it:
1) Hard targeting, where if you click right on your target, you'll hit, and if you're off slightly, you'll miss. This is common in first person shooters. It also requires heavy mouse usage and makes controllers basically unusable.
2) Soft targeting, where the game assumes that you intended to hit something, and will adjust your aim to the nearest target unless you're way off. See, for example, Neverwinter. If there's only one enemy in range, then you don't have to point right at it, but there will be a pretty large box where if you're at all close, the game figures out that you intended to shoot at that enemy and fires your attack in the right direction. That way, even if your aim isn't very good, most attacks will hit something unless your target actively does something to dodge it. If several enemies are close to each other, you have to aim well to hit the particular one you intended. But there's a huge difference between your aim being off meaning that you hit the "wrong" opponent versus most of your shots hitting nothing at all.
3) Bullet hell dodging, where you fire a lot of shots quickly, but projectiles move slowly enough that any particular one is readily dodged. Get enough people firing enough shots and your enemies can't dodge them all. Or sometimes, you just have to get closer so that they won't have as much time to dodge. This makes aiming nearly irrelevant, as even if there isn't any aiming assist as with soft targeting, pointing right at where your enemy is now isn't really any better than being off to the side a little.
So, what does Crowfall use?