4Q earnings NCSOFT

Kabulozo · February 2020

Mobile revenues had a huge bump with the launch of Lineage 2M.

Mobile games: 362 billion KRW
Lineage: 51 billion KRW
Lineage 2: 27 billion KRW
B&S: 17 billion KRW
GW2: 11 billion KRW
Aion 8 billion KRW

For the whole 2019:

Mobile games: 999 billion KRW
Lineage: 174 billion KRW
Lineage 2: 94 billion KRW
B&S: 84 billion KRW
GW2: 59 billion KRW
Aion: 46 billion KRW

Xiaoki · February 2020

Mobile revenue is more than 3 times higher than the revenue of all the PC games combined.

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

Amathe · February 2020

Xiaoki said:

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

It's the dark matter gaming community. Unseen, unfelt, but ubiquitous. Probably the same people who play Candy Crush.

Kabulozo · February 2020

Amathe said:

Xiaoki said:

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

It's the dark matter gaming community. Unseen, unfelt, but ubiquitous. Probably the same people who play Candy Crush.

Both Lineage M and Lineage 2M are very neat games. They tried to stay true with the PC version while dealing with the limitation of the mobile devices. The proof of this is Koreans play them through emulation on PCs when they are at home.

The only negative is the shameless p2w way of ncsoft. But Asians are much more p2w tolerant than western people.

Kabulozo · February 2020

The open world of L2M is really beautiful for a mobile game.

AAAMEOW · February 2020

Amathe said:

Xiaoki said:

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

It's the dark matter gaming community. Unseen, unfelt, but ubiquitous. Probably the same people who play Candy Crush.

Candy Crush players are human too...

Wizardry · February 2020

The world does look good,FFXI mobile will look the same only a much better game.There is a reason they whipped Lm and l2m so quickly,they are very shallow games.Does it look good,yea sure it does.
Those lights over the mobs heads are one of the things i can't stand,i assume marking quest mobs.If you can't tell what mobs you are suppose to kill without the lights,you might as well quit gaming,besides it ruins the realistic immersion effect.
A world boss that moves super slow and has no magic or ranged ability is pretty weak,i would hardly call that a boss.Nothing else around aggro's as well makes it even weaker.

The animations are pretty weak,way too fast and there doesn't seem to be any animated effects from attacks,again to make it easier to support game play on mobile.Is there any actual grouping and how would this game perform if there were even 3 groups of say 6 in sight.

Wizardry · February 2020

There is one very big positive i see in the game play,no spammy combat, that is always a huge plus in my books.However that might just be because that player is kiting a slow boss that hits hard idk.

[Deleted User] · February 2020

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kabulozo · February 2020

Lol Final fantasy is mostly a pve game while Lineage has world pvp/pk. Totally different proposals. Some mobs in Lineage are passive they only attack you if you attack them, or attack a close mob of their kind. The aggressive types attack you once you get close enough to them.

Kabulozo · February 2020

Robokapp said:

Xiaoki said:

Mobile revenue is more than 3 times higher than the revenue of all the PC games combined.

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

mobile revenue is not only from mobile MMOs. it's also from mobile non-MMOs.

Mobile revenue from NC was non existent before Lineage M launch. They had some games but revenue was null.

Ungood · February 2020

Remali said:

Look how bad gw2 is doing
Its quite sad so no reason for me to expect a gw3 bringing the best parts of 1 and 2 together I guess
A pity a game like that could be a huge hit

LOL, I think GW3 died when Anet chose to keep half their staff locked up in "Other projects" while their flagship Game and only money maker GW2, was tanking hard and fast. So much so, that they ended up laying off half their staff and abandoning their other projects.

So you're not dealing with the sharpest knives in the drawer here as far as common sense goes.

cheyane · February 2020

They are being held together by their mobile games.

GW 2 was initially very popular in spite of people complaining about the no trinity thing but I enjoyed playing it. I didn't play it for long but the odd thing is I never went back after I left the game. Unlike GW 1 which I left and went back to I don't think I returned to GW 2 after I left. WoW and FFXIV I have returned to after leaving but not GW 2. It does not seem to have the same draw as other MMORPGs.

I did find GW 2 highly entertaining but I felt no strong desire to go back. ESO and Rift are the other games I have not returned to after leaving. Everquest, WoW, DAoC, COH/COV, SWTOR, EQ 2, Anarchy Online, LotRO, Age of Conan to name a few are games I have returned to. There must be a reason behind that. I mean all the other games I occasionally have the desire to return to and have but even when I think I might go back to GW 2 it simply slips my mind. Perhaps in spite of the fun I had the game didn't create a lasting impression on me.

Ungood · February 2020

cheyane said:

They are being held together by their mobile games.

GW 2 was initially very popular in spite of people complaining about the no trinity thing but I enjoyed playing it. I didn't play it for long but the odd thing is I never went back after I left the game. Unlike GW 1 which I left and went back to I don't think I returned to GW 2 after I left. WoW and FFXIV I have returned to after leaving but not GW 2. It does not seem to have the same draw as other MMORPGs.

I did find GW 2 highly entertaining but I felt no strong desire to go back. ESO and Rift are the other games I have not returned to after leaving. Everquest, WoW, DAoC, COH/COV, SWTOR, EQ 2, Anarchy Online, LotRO, Age of Conan to name a few are games I have returned to. There must be a reason behind that. I mean all the other games I occasionally have the desire to return to and have but even when I think I might go back to GW 2 it simply slips my mind. Perhaps in spite of the fun I had the game didn't create a lasting impression on me.

I loved the lack of roles in GW2, that was by far, one of it's best features about the game, that I could literally pick any class and just go out and play.

I didn't need anyone else to enable my game time like in other games, if I played a healer, I needed someone else to do do the damage needed to kill mobs, but GW2 broke that mold apart, and it was one of the best parts of he game

They later screwed that up quite a bit with their expansions where they put in quasi-roles, for some classes, and it pretty much showed why roles were a bad idea and never should have tried to put them in.

Undaunted by their screw up along that path, they kept trying tho, just making things worse and worse as they went along.

You might like it more now tho, it has that very "generic MMO" feel to it these days, that all the WoW refugees that swarmed GW2 clamored for, and raids, yes, the need for raids as well.

Then you know, Classic WoW came out and all the WoW transplants left GW2 like the pitiful wanna-be it became to try and placate them, and rightfully returned to their beloved WoW.

Kabulozo · February 2020

Ungood said:

cheyane said:

They are being held together by their mobile games.

GW 2 was initially very popular in spite of people complaining about the no trinity thing but I enjoyed playing it. I didn't play it for long but the odd thing is I never went back after I left the game. Unlike GW 1 which I left and went back to I don't think I returned to GW 2 after I left. WoW and FFXIV I have returned to after leaving but not GW 2. It does not seem to have the same draw as other MMORPGs.

I did find GW 2 highly entertaining but I felt no strong desire to go back. ESO and Rift are the other games I have not returned to after leaving. Everquest, WoW, DAoC, COH/COV, SWTOR, EQ 2, Anarchy Online, LotRO, Age of Conan to name a few are games I have returned to. There must be a reason behind that. I mean all the other games I occasionally have the desire to return to and have but even when I think I might go back to GW 2 it simply slips my mind. Perhaps in spite of the fun I had the game didn't create a lasting impression on me.

I loved the lack of roles in GW2, that was by far, one of it's best features about the game, that I could literally pick any class and just go out and play.

I didn't need anyone else to enable my game time like in other games, if I played a healer, I needed someone else to do do the damage needed to kill mobs, but GW2 broke that mold apart, and it was one of the best parts of he game

They later screwed that up quite a bit with their expansions where they put in quasi-roles, for some classes, and it pretty much showed why roles were a bad idea and never should have tried to put them in.

Undaunted by their screw up along that path, they kept trying tho, just making things worse and worse as they went along.

You might like it more now tho, it has that very "generic MMO" feel to it these days, that all the WoW refugees that swarmed GW2 clamored for, and raids, yes, the need for raids as well.

Then you know, Classic WoW came out and all the WoW transplants left GW2 like the pitiful wanna-be it became to try and placate them, and rightfully returned to their beloved WoW.

The idea that WoW players will leave WoW for another MMO (the so promissed WoW killer) is the same thing as thinking LoL players will leave LoL for another MOBA. They can leave temporarily, but never forever.

Dozens of MOBAs died over the past decade trying to get a slice of LoL pie, including Blizzard's HotS. But companies capitulated and gave up on the race for a LoL killer. The same happened with the end race for the WoW killer.

If you want to profit with MMO, you need to explore new fronts and Mobile market right now is a huge opportunity. It will take quite some time until the Mobile MMO market becomes as saturated as the PC MMO counterpart.

Ungood · February 2020

Kabulozo said:

Ungood said:

cheyane said:

They are being held together by their mobile games.

GW 2 was initially very popular in spite of people complaining about the no trinity thing but I enjoyed playing it. I didn't play it for long but the odd thing is I never went back after I left the game. Unlike GW 1 which I left and went back to I don't think I returned to GW 2 after I left. WoW and FFXIV I have returned to after leaving but not GW 2. It does not seem to have the same draw as other MMORPGs.

I did find GW 2 highly entertaining but I felt no strong desire to go back. ESO and Rift are the other games I have not returned to after leaving. Everquest, WoW, DAoC, COH/COV, SWTOR, EQ 2, Anarchy Online, LotRO, Age of Conan to name a few are games I have returned to. There must be a reason behind that. I mean all the other games I occasionally have the desire to return to and have but even when I think I might go back to GW 2 it simply slips my mind. Perhaps in spite of the fun I had the game didn't create a lasting impression on me.

I loved the lack of roles in GW2, that was by far, one of it's best features about the game, that I could literally pick any class and just go out and play.

I didn't need anyone else to enable my game time like in other games, if I played a healer, I needed someone else to do do the damage needed to kill mobs, but GW2 broke that mold apart, and it was one of the best parts of he game

They later screwed that up quite a bit with their expansions where they put in quasi-roles, for some classes, and it pretty much showed why roles were a bad idea and never should have tried to put them in.

Undaunted by their screw up along that path, they kept trying tho, just making things worse and worse as they went along.

You might like it more now tho, it has that very "generic MMO" feel to it these days, that all the WoW refugees that swarmed GW2 clamored for, and raids, yes, the need for raids as well.

Then you know, Classic WoW came out and all the WoW transplants left GW2 like the pitiful wanna-be it became to try and placate them, and rightfully returned to their beloved WoW.

The idea that WoW players will leave WoW for another MMO (the so promissed WoW killer) is the same thing as thinking LoL players will leave LoL for another MOBA. They can leave temporarily, but never forever.

Dozens of MOBAs died over the past decade trying to get a slice of LoL pie, including Blizzard's HotS. But companies capitulated and gave up on the race for a LoL killer. The same happened with the end race for the WoW killer.

If you want to profit with MMO, you need to explore new fronts and Mobile market right now is a huge opportunity. It will take quite some time until the Mobile MMO market becomes as saturated as the PC MMO counterpart.

Yah.. the WoW players jumping to GW2 was just a passing fancy, 100% agree, but Anet, thought they could hold on to them if they changed their game to kiss their ass.

Did they fail?

Yes.. yes they did, like everyone knew they would fail, and in doing so, they ruined what they had, ruined whatever they were working on secret, lost half their staff... they shot themslves in the foot right and proper.

and all the people that they were trying to hard to please.. well they all moved back to WoW, or whatever other games they play now.

cheyane · February 2020

Ungood said:

cheyane said:

They are being held together by their mobile games.

GW 2 was initially very popular in spite of people complaining about the no trinity thing but I enjoyed playing it. I didn't play it for long but the odd thing is I never went back after I left the game. Unlike GW 1 which I left and went back to I don't think I returned to GW 2 after I left. WoW and FFXIV I have returned to after leaving but not GW 2. It does not seem to have the same draw as other MMORPGs.

I did find GW 2 highly entertaining but I felt no strong desire to go back. ESO and Rift are the other games I have not returned to after leaving. Everquest, WoW, DAoC, COH/COV, SWTOR, EQ 2, Anarchy Online, LotRO, Age of Conan to name a few are games I have returned to. There must be a reason behind that. I mean all the other games I occasionally have the desire to return to and have but even when I think I might go back to GW 2 it simply slips my mind. Perhaps in spite of the fun I had the game didn't create a lasting impression on me.

I loved the lack of roles in GW2, that was by far, one of it's best features about the game, that I could literally pick any class and just go out and play.

I didn't need anyone else to enable my game time like in other games, if I played a healer, I needed someone else to do do the damage needed to kill mobs, but GW2 broke that mold apart, and it was one of the best parts of he game

They later screwed that up quite a bit with their expansions where they put in quasi-roles, for some classes, and it pretty much showed why roles were a bad idea and never should have tried to put them in.

Undaunted by their screw up along that path, they kept trying tho, just making things worse and worse as they went along.

You might like it more now tho, it has that very "generic MMO" feel to it these days, that all the WoW refugees that swarmed GW2 clamored for, and raids, yes, the need for raids as well.

Then you know, Classic WoW came out and all the WoW transplants left GW2 like the pitiful wanna-be it became to try and placate them, and rightfully returned to their beloved WoW.

GW2 wasn't the game that broke the mold that was City of Villains where healing was almost non existent and you used controls and shields and debuffs to win against hosts of mobs. I feel City of Villains did it better than GW 2.

The problem isn't that there were no lack of roles in GW 2 they didn't have any way to distinguish roles that does not have to be a trinity to be a role. If the goal was to damage and kill fast then everyone basically went for classes that did that best to finish quicker. That makes the game not as good as City of Villains where your goal isn't to pick people who do damage only and succeed.

The best part of the City of X games was that you could approach a mission and use controls to make the mobs fight each other and then place good shields on people then fight the remaining mobs with debuffs and damage attacks. There were archetypes that could use acid mortar and sheild generators that added so much flavour to a mission. Or masterminds with their minions and secondaries that could also buff or debuff. So many roles that the archetypes could take . Controllers that can use crowd control and little damage but the crowd control was a valuable role.

Each combnation of skills when City of Villains launched meant you approached the missions differently. Pity the missions set up was boring though but you cannot fault the skills system which had good diversity and gave people roles that were not the trinity but roles nevertheless.

ultimateduck · February 2020

Ungood said:

cheyane said:

They are being held together by their mobile games.

GW 2 was initially very popular in spite of people complaining about the no trinity thing but I enjoyed playing it. I didn't play it for long but the odd thing is I never went back after I left the game. Unlike GW 1 which I left and went back to I don't think I returned to GW 2 after I left. WoW and FFXIV I have returned to after leaving but not GW 2. It does not seem to have the same draw as other MMORPGs.

I did find GW 2 highly entertaining but I felt no strong desire to go back. ESO and Rift are the other games I have not returned to after leaving. Everquest, WoW, DAoC, COH/COV, SWTOR, EQ 2, Anarchy Online, LotRO, Age of Conan to name a few are games I have returned to. There must be a reason behind that. I mean all the other games I occasionally have the desire to return to and have but even when I think I might go back to GW 2 it simply slips my mind. Perhaps in spite of the fun I had the game didn't create a lasting impression on me.

I loved the lack of roles in GW2, that was by far, one of it's best features about the game, that I could literally pick any class and just go out and play.

I didn't need anyone else to enable my game time like in other games, if I played a healer, I needed someone else to do do the damage needed to kill mobs, but GW2 broke that mold apart, and it was one of the best parts of he game

They later screwed that up quite a bit with their expansions where they put in quasi-roles, for some classes, and it pretty much showed why roles were a bad idea and never should have tried to put them in.

Undaunted by their screw up along that path, they kept trying tho, just making things worse and worse as they went along.

You might like it more now tho, it has that very "generic MMO" feel to it these days, that all the WoW refugees that swarmed GW2 clamored for, and raids, yes, the need for raids as well.

Then you know, Classic WoW came out and all the WoW transplants left GW2 like the pitiful wanna-be it became to try and placate them, and rightfully returned to their beloved WoW.

The lack of roles means everything is soloable which means grouping is a necessary evil which takes away from what makes a MMO an MMO. Over time, GW2 became an example of everything I dislike about new MMOs.

Amathe · February 2020

Belatedly I realized that these huge numbers, with billions and billions of KRW, are not as large as you might think. The conversion rate for a Korean won to a U.S. dollar is 0.00085. So a thousand won would be about 85 cents. I think anyway (I suck at math).

Kabulozo · February 2020

Amathe said:

Belatedly I realized that these huge numbers, with billions and billions of KRW, are not as large as you might think. The conversion rate for a Korean won to a U.S. dollar is 0.00085. So a thousand won would be about 85 cents. I think anyway (I suck at math).

NC made in dollars 885 million bucks with mobile games in 2019 which is the approximate conversion from 999 billion won.

Ungood · February 2020

ultimateduck said:

Ungood said:

cheyane said:

They are being held together by their mobile games.

GW 2 was initially very popular in spite of people complaining about the no trinity thing but I enjoyed playing it. I didn't play it for long but the odd thing is I never went back after I left the game. Unlike GW 1 which I left and went back to I don't think I returned to GW 2 after I left. WoW and FFXIV I have returned to after leaving but not GW 2. It does not seem to have the same draw as other MMORPGs.

I did find GW 2 highly entertaining but I felt no strong desire to go back. ESO and Rift are the other games I have not returned to after leaving. Everquest, WoW, DAoC, COH/COV, SWTOR, EQ 2, Anarchy Online, LotRO, Age of Conan to name a few are games I have returned to. There must be a reason behind that. I mean all the other games I occasionally have the desire to return to and have but even when I think I might go back to GW 2 it simply slips my mind. Perhaps in spite of the fun I had the game didn't create a lasting impression on me.

I loved the lack of roles in GW2, that was by far, one of it's best features about the game, that I could literally pick any class and just go out and play.

I didn't need anyone else to enable my game time like in other games, if I played a healer, I needed someone else to do do the damage needed to kill mobs, but GW2 broke that mold apart, and it was one of the best parts of he game

They later screwed that up quite a bit with their expansions where they put in quasi-roles, for some classes, and it pretty much showed why roles were a bad idea and never should have tried to put them in.

Undaunted by their screw up along that path, they kept trying tho, just making things worse and worse as they went along.

You might like it more now tho, it has that very "generic MMO" feel to it these days, that all the WoW refugees that swarmed GW2 clamored for, and raids, yes, the need for raids as well.

Then you know, Classic WoW came out and all the WoW transplants left GW2 like the pitiful wanna-be it became to try and placate them, and rightfully returned to their beloved WoW.

The lack of roles means everything is soloable which means grouping is a necessary evil which takes away from what makes a MMO an MMO. Over time, GW2 became an example of everything I dislike about new MMOs.

Everyone being self sufficient meant that groups were done by people that liked and wanted to group, making them a positive thing. Which is what a social game is supposed to be about, playing with the people you want to play with, not because you have to, but because you want to.

Roles and Interdependent classes made grouping a necessary evil, something players were forced to do, not because they wanted to, but because they had to, and they needed to fill direct specific roles.

Which is why so many people originally went to GW2 to get away from that exact kind of generic MMO situation. And, also why Anet made pretty much the dumbest fucking move ever by putting roles and raids into their game, to placate that demographic as opposed to continuing on with what made their game unique and special.

Ungood · February 2020

Amathe said:

Belatedly I realized that these huge numbers, with billions and billions of KRW, are not as large as you might think. The conversion rate for a Korean won to a U.S. dollar is 0.00085. So a thousand won would be about 85 cents. I think anyway (I suck at math).

It converts to roughly 0.0009, so a Billion Wan is a 900K USD. So GW2 11.33 Billion Wan, comes out to roughly 9 million USD, which comes out to roughly 3 Million a Month.

That looks pretty good on the surface, but when you consider last time anyone looked, they had roughly 1 million players, that is like 3 dollars per player, per month.

To get a feel for that on a smaller scale, Gem Shop purchases are $10 Minimum, which means, less that 30% of their players are buying anything at all each month.

That is 1/5 what they would be making if everyone paid a sub fee.

laserit · February 2020

Xiaoki said:

Mobile revenue is more than 3 times higher than the revenue of all the PC games combined.

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

My wife who thinks video games are stupid loves them.

cheyane · February 2020

The B2P was a bad model they should have taken a sub it would have allowed them to gain a steady income now. In hindsight it was a poor decision. Especially when their expansions were so slow in coming.

Ungood · February 2020

laserit said:

Xiaoki said:

Mobile revenue is more than 3 times higher than the revenue of all the PC games combined.

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

My wife who thinks video games are stupid loves them.

yes.. the process has begun and soon, she will spawn camp and t-bag you from her phone in the bedroom telling you to get off the computer and come to bed.

laserit · February 2020

Ungood said:

laserit said:

Xiaoki said:

Mobile revenue is more than 3 times higher than the revenue of all the PC games combined.

But no one likes mobile MMOs right guys

My wife who thinks video games are stupid loves them.

yes.. the process has begun and soon, she will spawn camp and t-bag you from her phone in the bedroom telling you to get off the computer and come to bed.

She's been spawn camping me for the past 20 years.

looks over shoulder

Uhm...... Love you honey

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