bump OPPS Did I just do that? omg kill me, rip me apart. Yeah but it still galls me. You ever notice all those people buying Eve accounts on Ebay? There was one recently that sold for 1700$. That's a lot of money to me. And guess what? Even though they may or may not know they are making a big mistake, odds are shortly thereafter their new account was PERMANENTLY BANNED by Eve-online.
Wow, the GM's must really get a rush everytime they do that, eh? Makes old Gunderferson (or whatever his nmae is) in Iceland feel like a great big man!
And Ebay/Paypal get their fees. The only loser is the person who thought he or she lived in a free society, and if it's for sale on Ebay it must be legal. Oh my what foolish people they are, eh?
I'm still working on getting this changed. And I have just this week gotten the Attorney General's office of California to listen to me, we've had 3 teleconferences now where I walk them through Ebay and through Eve's Terms of Service.
So far the main thing they commented on was Eve's TOS is not clear, especially when they have all those parts about "character transfer" and how you can transfer characters between accounts for a fee. The deputy attorney general was confused by it, and she's one very smart lady. It seems contradictory, but then it was written by someone who obviously is English challenged.
Changes will come if I have to work on this the rest of my life. The player of the game who puts months or years into a game, irregardless of a TOS by a company, still has rights under the laws of his/her country. Just because Eve says "this is our TOS" doesn't mean it can't be challenged. And just because CCP is in Iceland and not ever part of the EU, isn't going to allow it to avoid problems.
The post above that says "Don't Ebay" shows, just like my favorite senior EVE GM's, that the person didn't even read what was posted here before they responded, and then their response was a short answer that was less than helpful, just like the GM's.
How thoughtful.
And yes it is true, they banned 3 accounts owned by a father and his two children, all because the senior GM has it in his head they bought an account on Ebay which is not true.
Being banned for ebaying a character when CCP itself allows charactars to be sold for isk is retarded. This is one of the few problems i have with ccp. If you're willing to transfer characters for $20 to a different account don't be pissed when people choose cash over isk. CCP will still recieve their $20 so whats the point. People still farm toons and sell them for isk then sell the isk for cash.
Yes and also they allow you to buy game time cards or sell them for isk. It is contradictory policy. If they were really smart, instead of turning some of their players into criminals who must operate a black market on Ebay, they would do as other games have done and run the auction site themselves FOR REAL LIFE CASH, and take a cut like Ebay does.
Ebay gets a double cut you know, because they are deeply associated with Paypal, and they BOTH get their cuts. We are talking very large sums of cash per year. They could then take that money and use it to hire more good DEV's, artists, etc. to increase game content, and great hardware etc. Maybe they could expand to all floors of the building they are in, and not just be on the 2nd floor.
I mean we do live in a capitalist system, don't we? The idea is free commerce and free flow of ideas. I post these things here partly because ANY and ALL of my posts here that were originally posted on the EVE-online site were immediately removed. I not longer post there as I do not wish to violate their rules.
Not only do you not have a free market, but you have a tightly controlled flow of ideas on their forums. Funny that would come from a game in Iceland. Sounds more like how a game in the former Soviet block would be run, or perhaps Communist China.
Free flow of idea as well as commerce is important to me. My father fought in two wars for those ideals. I've spent my entire life living and working toward the idea of free commerce, especially on the Internet. At the US Federal level I was involved with the decisions to keep the Internet a free commerce zone.
Eve is free to do whatever they want. I just want to be free to complain about it....and not get banned from the forums for it. And I really feel sorry for the people who buy accounts on Ebay for as high as 1700$, and then a few weeks letter get all their accounts perma-banned. (hits dead horse again)
Eve is free to do whatever they want. I just want to be free to complain about it....and not get banned from the forums for it. And I really feel sorry for the people who buy accounts on Ebay for as high as 1700$, and then a few weeks letter get all their accounts perma-banned. (hits dead horse again)
I dont feel sorry for them at all. They did the equivalent of cheating at a game, and the fact that they are getting brutally screwed out of a decent chunk of real cash is simply justice. EVE is one of the few MMOGs with a decidedly principled stand on the matter.
If you want to spend money on in-game crap, go play something published by SoE.
Yes, I can see your point of view, I think. But there is no justice in screwing people out of cash, as you put it. Ebay should not have auctions posted that they profit from full well knowing that some of the purchasers will be "Screwed out of their cash". No where in any system of law is justice defined as getting screwed out of your money.
All CCP would have to do is ask Ebay to stop allowing selling that stuff, according to Ebay. But according to Ebay they have never asked.
And I don't agree with CCP's stand on the matter because they are two-faced about it, they allow "character transfers" that you pay for, but if you bought the char on Ebay they ban you. I just believe in free trade without undue interferance from the Holy Lord GM's. But that's just my opinion.
I dont feel sorry for them at all. They did the equivalent of cheating at a game, and the fact that they are getting brutally screwed out of a decent chunk of real cash is simply justice. EVE is one of the few MMOGs with a decidedly principled stand on the matter.
If you want to spend money on in-game crap, go play something published by SoE.
haha i just remember that from other case ( not eve not ccp) some dude make some about hack account and he get banned and asking on forums about that the GM answer some like " u transfer the account to other person we get the logs"
It's not cheating in any way. It's your account. You paid for it. You own it. It's your creative input. It's yours to do what you like with. (Both Legally and morally). CCCP is paid to hostyour account for you, they do not own it. You do. They are service and paid to store your data and provide servers.
If they ban you, you are always entitled to a full refund (within six years of purchase). Since you can no longer play online, the game does not work as advertised, (a criminal offense in the EU).
Your credit card probably insures your purchases for the last 3 months, so if it you have only been playing for less than 3 months, recovering your money will be very easy indeed. Drop them a line.
Should you be trying to recover the costs for over 3 months, take them to court. the courts ruled very favourable against a Lineage player whose account was deleted by accident. NCsoft refused to reinstate it.
He had been playing for a year and a half. He was awarded $70,000 USD. The court ruled, it wasn't just actual costs of equipment cost and subscription fee's but also a significant life investment of his time.
If you think you have no consumer rights, you are very much mistaken. You have loads of them.
Alternatively, if they refuse you a refund and you hate them, you can set a debt collection agency on them, or better yet file them for insolvency.
Originally posted by awoz Yes, I can see your point of view, I think. But there is no justice in screwing people out of cash, as you put it. Ebay should not have auctions posted that they profit from full well knowing that some of the purchasers will be "Screwed out of their cash". No where in any system of law is justice defined as getting screwed out of your money. All CCP would have to do is ask Ebay to stop allowing selling that stuff, according to Ebay. But according to Ebay they have never asked. And I don't agree with CCP's stand on the matter because they are two-faced about it, they allow "character transfers" that you pay for, but if you bought the char on Ebay they ban you. I just believe in free trade without undue interferance from the Holy Lord GM's. But that's just my opinion.
Ok, from this post I can assume that youre under 18 and have no experience with anything related to the criminal justice system. Reguardless of what you do which earns you the attention of the law, there will be fines attached to it. Large ones.
In-game goods for RL money transfers being legal DESTROYS GAMES. The influx of macroing/farming account shreds any established game economy as people turn a game into a job. If you want to play that kind of shitty, bot-filled game, fuck off and play one of the others which are already ruined.
Originally posted by baff You should be able to sell your account on Ebay. It's not cheating in anyway, it's your account, you paid for it, you own it, it's your creative input. It's yours to do what you like with. (Both Legally and morally). CCCP is paid to host your account for you, they do not own it. You do. They are service and paid to store your data and provide servers. If they ban you, you are always entitled to a full refund (within six years of purchase). Since you can no longer play online, the game does work as advertised, (a criminal offense in the EU). Your credit card probably insures your purchases for the last 3 months, so if it you have only been playing for less than 3 months, recovering your money will be very easy indeed. Drop them a line. Should you be trying to recover the costs for over 3 months, take them to court. the courts ruled very favourable against a Lineage player whose account was deleted by accident. NCsoft refused to reinstate it. He had been playing for a year and a half. He was awarded $70,000 USD. The court ruled, it wasn't just actual costs of equipment cost and subscription fee's but also a significant life investment of his time. If you think you have no consumer rights, you are very much mistaken. You have loads of them. Alternatively, if they refuse you a refund, you can set a debt collection agency on them, or better yet file them for insolvency.
Good luck with that. Just about the only thing there that will get you anything is the credit card charge reverse. Everything else... well, heh, have fun.
As long as it goes to court, he will win. Judges and juries aren't stupid. If the guy has lost out unfairly they will rule in his favour. It's not rocket science.
Originally posted by baff According to me. Instead of giving it the big smart mouth why don't you look it up for yourself. Or aren't you capable?
I did look up the parts of it which I wasnt sure about, or hadnt head about, and found nothing whatsoever to support your baseless guesses as to what would totally happen if only the law wasnt so ghey, dude.
Originally posted by baff Then you aren't capable. Next time, if you adopt some manners, I'll link you up mate.
IN other words, you tried looking it up, failed to find anything concrete that supported your outlandish assumptions, and are now trying to cover like a child caught doing something naughty. "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!"
People say Oh the EULA won't hold up in court, etc etc. That gamers need rights and such and such.
First of all, the EULA doesn't have to hold up in court, it's just a fallback if the company needs it.
If you get banned from the game because they *thought* you did something they don't like, that's not their problem, it's your problem. It's their product, their IP, and their service. They have the right to refuse to serve anyone for any reason. There is no court in the world that will say they have to let you play.
You might say Oh well if I'm renting an apartment the landlord can't just kick me out if he thought I did something wrong. The truth is yeah, he can kick you out if he even *thinks* you're doing something bad. Now because it's a place of residence he has to give you 30 days or whatever, but he doesn't really have to give you a reason to kick you out. Also, that's a real life thing.
You're talking about giving gamers rights over a game. It's only a game and there's no actual physical manifestation of it beyond the install disk. You don't need a game to live. No one cares if you got kicked off a game because it's just a game. Some of you need to realize that. They are just games and there is a whole world full of much more important real life things. It's not like you're making money off the game (because if you are, then they are right to kick you out).
That's why gamers will never have rights in MMOs. (Except possibly for the odd exception where some company is trying to use it as a gimmick). If you get kicked off a game, too bad. Sure it may suck, but the company doesn't care. Society doesn't care. Your job doesn't care. There is no court that is going to say you have a right to be entertained by a specific thing. So you got kicked off, too bad. If you don't like it, buy another copy of the game and don't screw up this time. Or go play something else.
The genre will not die. Millions of people play MMOs. 99% of them go their entire gaming careers without having any trouble from the GMs, so they will keep playing.
The player does not and will never have rights, because the entire experience is solely based on the good graces of the developers making and running this game for us.
If you don't like what a dev team is doing, then play something else. If enough people don't like it, the game will die, and other teams won't do the same thing. It's natural selection at its finest.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by baff Rant all you like matey, if you want help form me, this isn't the way you will get it. You will have to educate yourself until you better manage your attitude. Korea even has it's own set of MMO specific laws, including what will happen to a company if it permbans someone engaging in real-money trade.
Swing and a miss. What youre probably thinking of is this:
Which is a lawsuit over NCSoft's negligance in allowing player account information to be exposed and stolen. It has no relevence to anything you've said, other then the fact that this stolen account information was often used to create fraudulent accounts for the purpose of farming gold/items for out-of-game-sales.
Just more proof that condoning real-money sales is a disaster.
If you actually want to learn whats true, I'd suggust going and doing research. Trusting what your 12-year-old guildmate said on your WoW ezboard was totally true dude usually results in you looking stupid.
If they banned you for doing something that they feel hurts the game, it's pretty simple to argue that you were doing something to hurt their intellectual property.
No judge will force them to let you destroy their business.
Also, if you're making money off of selling in-game items, guess what. You're selling their intellectual property. It's not your property because you only rent the account, and rent access to play the game. Anything in the game including the accounts, characters, items, and gold still belongs to them. It's their world, they created it, they get to say what happens to it. You don't get to make money off of selling their intellectual property because it's theirs, not yours. The only ones who can make money off of selling in game property is the company who made it.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by Blurr Here's the crux of the matter. People say Oh the EULA won't hold up in court, etc etc. That gamers need rights and such and such. First of all, the EULA doesn't have to hold up in court, it's just a fallback if the company needs it. If you get banned from the game because they *thought* you did something they don't like, that's not their problem, it's your problem. It's their product, their IP, and their service. They have the right to refuse to serve anyone for any reason. There is no court in the world that will say they have to let you play. You might say Oh well if I'm renting an apartment the landlord can't just kick me out if he thought I did something wrong. The truth is yeah, he can kick you out if he even *thinks* you're doing something bad. Now because it's a place of residence he has to give you 30 days or whatever, but he doesn't really have to give you a reason to kick you out. Also, that's a real life thing. You're talking about giving gamers rights over a game. It's only a game and there's no actual physical manifestation of it beyond the install disk. You don't need a game to live. No one cares if you got kicked off a game because it's just a game. Some of you need to realize that. They are just games and there is a whole world full of much more important real life things. It's not like you're making money off the game (because if you are, then they are right to kick you out). That's why gamers will never have rights in MMOs. (Except possibly for the odd exception where some company is trying to use it as a gimmick). If you get kicked off a game, too bad. Sure it may suck, but the company doesn't care. Society doesn't care. Your job doesn't care. There is no court that is going to say you have a right to be entertained by a specific thing. So you got kicked off, too bad. If you don't like it, buy another copy of the game and don't screw up this time. Or go play something else. The genre will not die. Millions of people play MMOs. 99% of them go their entire gaming careers without having any trouble from the GMs, so they will keep playing. The player does not and will never have rights, because the entire experience is solely based on the good graces of the developers making and running this game for us. If you don't like what a dev team is doing, then play something else. If enough people don't like it, the game will die, and other teams won't do the same thing. It's natural selection at its finest.
If that's how you really feel on the matter I pity you. I don't know where you live, but I live in Maryland. Here, just thinking someone is doing something bad isn't enough to get a person kicked out. No "proof", or "evidence"? Tough luck, you aren't evicting anyone.
I agree with the Op, as an online gamer their should be a certain expectation level of rights for online consumers. Developers/Publishers denying service on a whim, isn't the direction the Online genre should be heading. Without rules, what's to stop them from denying someone service because of racial or religious biases? Oh we aren't going to provide this person with service, because he's black. Well this person can't either, because he's arab. Oh wait lets not foret this person. He's catholic.
It maybe be their property. Their interlectual property, but "WE" are paying them for a service.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by Roin Originally posted by Blurr Here's the crux of the matter. People say Oh the EULA won't hold up in court, etc etc. That gamers need rights and such and such. First of all, the EULA doesn't have to hold up in court, it's just a fallback if the company needs it. If you get banned from the game because they *thought* you did something they don't like, that's not their problem, it's your problem. It's their product, their IP, and their service. They have the right to refuse to serve anyone for any reason. There is no court in the world that will say they have to let you play. You might say Oh well if I'm renting an apartment the landlord can't just kick me out if he thought I did something wrong. The truth is yeah, he can kick you out if he even *thinks* you're doing something bad. Now because it's a place of residence he has to give you 30 days or whatever, but he doesn't really have to give you a reason to kick you out. Also, that's a real life thing. You're talking about giving gamers rights over a game. It's only a game and there's no actual physical manifestation of it beyond the install disk. You don't need a game to live. No one cares if you got kicked off a game because it's just a game. Some of you need to realize that. They are just games and there is a whole world full of much more important real life things. It's not like you're making money off the game (because if you are, then they are right to kick you out). That's why gamers will never have rights in MMOs. (Except possibly for the odd exception where some company is trying to use it as a gimmick). If you get kicked off a game, too bad. Sure it may suck, but the company doesn't care. Society doesn't care. Your job doesn't care. There is no court that is going to say you have a right to be entertained by a specific thing. So you got kicked off, too bad. If you don't like it, buy another copy of the game and don't screw up this time. Or go play something else. The genre will not die. Millions of people play MMOs. 99% of them go their entire gaming careers without having any trouble from the GMs, so they will keep playing. The player does not and will never have rights, because the entire experience is solely based on the good graces of the developers making and running this game for us. If you don't like what a dev team is doing, then play something else. If enough people don't like it, the game will die, and other teams won't do the same thing. It's natural selection at its finest.
If that's how you really feel on the matter I pity you. I don't know where you live, but I live in Maryland. Here, just thinking someone is doing something bad isn't enough to get a person kicked out. No "proof", or "evidence"? Tough luck, you aren't evicting anyone.
I agree with the Op, as an online gamer their should be a certain expectation level of rights for online consumers. Developers/Publishers denying service on a whim, isn't the direction the Online genre should be heading. Without rules, what's to stop them from denying someone service because of racial or religious biases? Oh we aren't going to provide this person with service, because he's black. Well this person can't either, because he's arab. Oh wait lets not foret this person. He's catholic.
It maybe be their property. Their interlectual property, but "WE" are paying them for a service.
Untrue. The owners of the apartment complex can boot you any time they feel. They don't because they want good graces upon their complex. Same with gaming companies. Why is this possible? Because, you RENT some of the complex's space. They OWN the complex. It is their property and they are legally able to call you a trespasser anytime they feel. They are able to say you broke a "rule" or anything they want. It sounds stupid, but it is true. The same goes for the internet and MMO companies. You are renting a piece of their "land." If you break the rules of their property, they can kick you out. If they even think you're breaking the rules, they can kick you out. Why? As they'll tell the judge, "because we don't want this guy making our company look bad just so he can turn a profit/succeed in the game/fiddle his nuts/etc."
The only difference between real life property and internet property is that they have to give you two weeks to 30 days to find somewhere else to live in real life. On the internet it's *ZAP* you're gone!
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
1. You said yourself this is not you and you have only 2nd, or maybe 3rd, hand knowledge of the event. So, your reallly don't actually KNOW anything for fact about the 'incident'.
2. It is trivially easy to validate an e-bay transaction given that one has the item number. You can find out all about it. If it really was a fake e-bay transaction, it would have been immediately apparent.
So, IF there was a banning, it is more than likely that the character involved was vendored off of e-bay. The 'victim' may not have known it was, or believed his 'friend' would transfer an e-bay character to him. But, there you have it.
Best of luck to you. In the future, I would suggest you let such 'victims' post for themselves. Otherwise, you kinda make yourself look like a Sap.
Comments
OPPS Did I just do that? omg kill me, rip me apart.
Yeah but it still galls me.
You ever notice all those people buying Eve accounts on Ebay?
There was one recently that sold for 1700$.
That's a lot of money to me.
And guess what? Even though they may or may not know they are making a big mistake, odds are shortly thereafter their new account was PERMANENTLY BANNED by Eve-online.
Wow, the GM's must really get a rush everytime they do that, eh? Makes old Gunderferson (or whatever his nmae is) in Iceland feel like a great big man!
And Ebay/Paypal get their fees. The only loser is the person who thought he or she lived in a free society, and if it's for sale on Ebay it must be legal. Oh my what foolish people they are, eh?
I'm still working on getting this changed. And I have just this week gotten the Attorney General's office of California to listen to me, we've had 3 teleconferences now where I walk them through Ebay and through Eve's Terms of Service.
So far the main thing they commented on was Eve's TOS is not clear, especially when they have all those parts about "character transfer" and how you can transfer characters between accounts for a fee. The deputy attorney general was confused by it, and she's one very smart lady. It seems contradictory, but then it was written by someone who obviously is English challenged.
Changes will come if I have to work on this the rest of my life. The player of the game who puts months or years into a game, irregardless of a TOS by a company, still has rights under the laws of his/her country. Just because Eve says "this is our TOS" doesn't mean it can't be challenged. And just because CCP is in Iceland and not ever part of the EU, isn't going to allow it to avoid problems.
The post above that says "Don't Ebay" shows, just like my favorite senior EVE GM's, that the person didn't even read what was posted here before they responded, and then their response was a short answer that was less than helpful, just like the GM's.
How thoughtful.
And yes it is true, they banned 3 accounts owned by a father and his two children, all because the senior GM has it in his head they bought an account on Ebay which is not true.
thats the one thing i do not agree with when it comes to these "money" farmers, the person who bought should be banned as well for cheating!
half the fun in mmo's is earning the cash yourself to buy things, why spend real money that you could have spent on beer and women
and to the OP, if it can be proved that the whole thing was a set-up then the accounts should be un-banned
Being banned for ebaying a character when CCP itself allows charactars to be sold for isk is retarded. This is one of the few problems i have with ccp. If you're willing to transfer characters for $20 to a different account don't be pissed when people choose cash over isk. CCP will still recieve their $20 so whats the point. People still farm toons and sell them for isk then sell the isk for cash.
Make a difference!
It is contradictory policy.
If they were really smart, instead of turning some of their players into criminals who must operate a black market on Ebay, they would do as other games have done and run the auction site themselves FOR REAL LIFE CASH, and take a cut like Ebay does.
Ebay gets a double cut you know, because they are deeply associated with Paypal, and they BOTH get their cuts. We are talking very large sums of cash per year.
They could then take that money and use it to hire more good DEV's, artists, etc. to increase game content, and great hardware etc. Maybe they could expand to all floors of the building they are in, and not just be on the 2nd floor.
I mean we do live in a capitalist system, don't we? The idea is free commerce and free flow of ideas.
I post these things here partly because ANY and ALL of my posts here that were originally posted on the EVE-online site were immediately removed. I not longer post there as I do not wish to violate their rules.
Not only do you not have a free market, but you have a tightly controlled flow of ideas on their forums.
Funny that would come from a game in Iceland. Sounds more like how a game in the former Soviet block would be run, or perhaps Communist China.
Free flow of idea as well as commerce is important to me. My father fought in two wars for those ideals.
I've spent my entire life living and working toward the idea of free commerce, especially on the Internet. At the US Federal level I was involved with the decisions to keep the Internet a free commerce zone.
Eve is free to do whatever they want. I just want to be free to complain about it....and not get banned from the forums for it. And I really feel sorry for the people who buy accounts on Ebay for as high as 1700$, and then a few weeks letter get all their accounts perma-banned.
(hits dead horse again)
Yeah I hate getting banned.
Hard copy letters to CCP, along with emails etc to GM's have met with no response.
""beats dead horse again""
If you want to spend money on in-game crap, go play something published by SoE.
BestSigEver :P
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
You should be able to sell your account on Ebay.
It's not cheating in any way. It's your account. You paid for it. You own it. It's your creative input. It's yours to do what you like with. (Both Legally and morally). CCCP is paid to host your account for you, they do not own it. You do. They are service and paid to store your data and provide servers.
If they ban you, you are always entitled to a full refund (within six years of purchase). Since you can no longer play online, the game does not work as advertised, (a criminal offense in the EU).
Your credit card probably insures your purchases for the last 3 months, so if it you have only been playing for less than 3 months, recovering your money will be very easy indeed. Drop them a line.
Should you be trying to recover the costs for over 3 months, take them to court. the courts ruled very favourable against a Lineage player whose account was deleted by accident. NCsoft refused to reinstate it.
He had been playing for a year and a half. He was awarded $70,000 USD. The court ruled, it wasn't just actual costs of equipment cost and subscription fee's but also a significant life investment of his time.
If you think you have no consumer rights, you are very much mistaken. You have loads of them.
Alternatively, if they refuse you a refund and you hate them, you can set a debt collection agency on them, or better yet file them for insolvency.
Ok, from this post I can assume that youre under 18 and have no experience with anything related to the criminal justice system. Reguardless of what you do which earns you the attention of the law, there will be fines attached to it. Large ones.
In-game goods for RL money transfers being legal DESTROYS GAMES. The influx of macroing/farming account shreds any established game economy as people turn a game into a job. If you want to play that kind of shitty, bot-filled game, fuck off and play one of the others which are already ruined. Good luck with that. Just about the only thing there that will get you anything is the credit card charge reverse. Everything else... well, heh, have fun.
It's all been done before.
As long as it goes to court, he will win. Judges and juries aren't stupid. If the guy has lost out unfairly they will rule in his favour. It's not rocket science.
Essentially nothing of what you said is grounded in reality at all.
According to me.
Instead of giving it the big smart mouth why don't you look it up for yourself.
Or aren't you capable?
Then you aren't capable.
Next time, if you adopt some manners, I'll link you up mate.
Rant all you like matey. You will have to educate yourself until you better manage your attitude.
Korea even has it's own set of MMO specific laws, including what will happen to a company if it permabans someone engaging in real-money trade.
Here's the crux of the matter.
People say Oh the EULA won't hold up in court, etc etc. That gamers need rights and such and such.
First of all, the EULA doesn't have to hold up in court, it's just a fallback if the company needs it.
If you get banned from the game because they *thought* you did something they don't like, that's not their problem, it's your problem. It's their product, their IP, and their service. They have the right to refuse to serve anyone for any reason. There is no court in the world that will say they have to let you play.
You might say Oh well if I'm renting an apartment the landlord can't just kick me out if he thought I did something wrong. The truth is yeah, he can kick you out if he even *thinks* you're doing something bad. Now because it's a place of residence he has to give you 30 days or whatever, but he doesn't really have to give you a reason to kick you out. Also, that's a real life thing.
You're talking about giving gamers rights over a game. It's only a game and there's no actual physical manifestation of it beyond the install disk. You don't need a game to live. No one cares if you got kicked off a game because it's just a game. Some of you need to realize that. They are just games and there is a whole world full of much more important real life things. It's not like you're making money off the game (because if you are, then they are right to kick you out).
That's why gamers will never have rights in MMOs. (Except possibly for the odd exception where some company is trying to use it as a gimmick). If you get kicked off a game, too bad. Sure it may suck, but the company doesn't care. Society doesn't care. Your job doesn't care. There is no court that is going to say you have a right to be entertained by a specific thing. So you got kicked off, too bad. If you don't like it, buy another copy of the game and don't screw up this time. Or go play something else.
The genre will not die. Millions of people play MMOs. 99% of them go their entire gaming careers without having any trouble from the GMs, so they will keep playing.
The player does not and will never have rights, because the entire experience is solely based on the good graces of the developers making and running this game for us.
If you don't like what a dev team is doing, then play something else. If enough people don't like it, the game will die, and other teams won't do the same thing. It's natural selection at its finest.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/03/1437231
Which is a lawsuit over NCSoft's negligance in allowing player account information to be exposed and stolen. It has no relevence to anything you've said, other then the fact that this stolen account information was often used to create fraudulent accounts for the purpose of farming gold/items for out-of-game-sales.
Just more proof that condoning real-money sales is a disaster.
If you actually want to learn whats true, I'd suggust going and doing research. Trusting what your 12-year-old guildmate said on your WoW ezboard was totally true dude usually results in you looking stupid.
You know, like now.
Oh and regarding taking the company to court.
If they banned you for doing something that they feel hurts the game, it's pretty simple to argue that you were doing something to hurt their intellectual property.
No judge will force them to let you destroy their business.
Also, if you're making money off of selling in-game items, guess what. You're selling their intellectual property. It's not your property because you only rent the account, and rent access to play the game. Anything in the game including the accounts, characters, items, and gold still belongs to them. It's their world, they created it, they get to say what happens to it. You don't get to make money off of selling their intellectual property because it's theirs, not yours. The only ones who can make money off of selling in game property is the company who made it.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I agree with the Op, as an online gamer their should be a certain expectation level of rights for online consumers. Developers/Publishers denying service on a whim, isn't the direction the Online genre should be heading. Without rules, what's to stop them from denying someone service because of racial or religious biases? Oh we aren't going to provide this person with service, because he's black. Well this person can't either, because he's arab. Oh wait lets not foret this person. He's catholic.
It maybe be their property. Their interlectual property, but "WE" are paying them for a service.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I agree with the Op, as an online gamer their should be a certain expectation level of rights for online consumers. Developers/Publishers denying service on a whim, isn't the direction the Online genre should be heading. Without rules, what's to stop them from denying someone service because of racial or religious biases? Oh we aren't going to provide this person with service, because he's black. Well this person can't either, because he's arab. Oh wait lets not foret this person. He's catholic.
It maybe be their property. Their interlectual property, but "WE" are paying them for a service.
Untrue. The owners of the apartment complex can boot you any time they feel. They don't because they want good graces upon their complex. Same with gaming companies. Why is this possible? Because, you RENT some of the complex's space. They OWN the complex. It is their property and they are legally able to call you a trespasser anytime they feel. They are able to say you broke a "rule" or anything they want. It sounds stupid, but it is true. The same goes for the internet and MMO companies. You are renting a piece of their "land." If you break the rules of their property, they can kick you out. If they even think you're breaking the rules, they can kick you out. Why? As they'll tell the judge, "because we don't want this guy making our company look bad just so he can turn a profit/succeed in the game/fiddle his nuts/etc."
The only difference between real life property and internet property is that they have to give you two weeks to 30 days to find somewhere else to live in real life. On the internet it's *ZAP* you're gone!
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Points :
1. You said yourself this is not you and you have only 2nd, or maybe 3rd, hand knowledge of the event. So, your reallly don't actually KNOW anything for fact about the 'incident'.
2. It is trivially easy to validate an e-bay transaction given that one has the item number. You can find out all about it. If it really was a fake e-bay transaction, it would have been immediately apparent.
So, IF there was a banning, it is more than likely that the character involved was vendored off of e-bay. The 'victim' may not have known it was, or believed his 'friend' would transfer an e-bay character to him. But, there you have it.
Best of luck to you. In the future, I would suggest you let such 'victims' post for themselves. Otherwise, you kinda make yourself look like a Sap.