Is the future of MMOs, Survival Hyrbids?

Bloodaxes · September 2020

The survival genre was a very popular craze that has brought us a ton of different games for those that enjoy them. After a while they started slowly phasing out, apart of a couple ones like Dayz, Ark etc. With games like New World, which incorporates certain elements of a survival game in an mmo, I can't help but wonder if that's a possible future for the mmorpg genre.

Most mmos have become quite stale (and frankly unoriginal). Something fresh has to show up, and this mesh of genres might be a good start. Another thing I wish we see more is the elimination of levels. Bring back the runescape style! Let people focus on whatever skill they desire to level instead of being handed everything on a silver platter. This would be perfect in survival scenario, as in 99% of them you start by harvesting stone/wood in order to get tools and become more efficient.

What do you people think? Will there be more companies trying such an approach, or will the survival genre remain as is for those that enjoy pvping with a sprinkle of content?

xpsync · September 2020

You wonder even Fallout 76 started out kinda like a survival sandbox, we know that Dune will just be a reskinned Conan.

I guess the concepts are easy to digest and to develop them are only light years easier than designing a full blown mmorpg.

Forever though i doubt it, i mean i hope the heck not.

Bloodaxes · September 2020

I am enjoying Fallout 76 (despite some bugs here and there), but there aren't many players around in a server. It's a good game to mention for comparison tough, as it has a lot of events and quests now on top of the classic survival elements.

Thinking on how to make new mmos more "realistic", I believe certain elements from these genres need to be present.

Aeander · September 2020

I really hope not. Survival mechanics are those which expressly define something as less fun, and more micromanaged.

Keep the hunger, thirst, sleep, and horniness meters out. I want to play my character, not babysit them.

kitarad · September 2020

Heavens I certainly hope not as I want more RPG in my MMORPG which means I don't want to be running around trying to barely eke out an existence. It can be fun for awhile until I build my first big house but after that survival games aren't about grand roleplaying it is just one very restrictive type of roleplaying. It's all very bare bones which is my opinion of the games in this genre as your motivations are very restrictive and actions are also confined by the survival premise.

Bloodaxes · September 2020

Aeander said:

I really hope not. Survival mechanics are those which expressly define something as less fun, and more micromanaged.

Keep the hunger, thirst, sleep, and horniness meters out. I want to play my character, not babysit them.

I agree to an extent. We already have plenty of micromanagement in the current mmos, with daily quests and farming X to get Y. Those mechanics can be daunting, if done in a certain way.

With that said, having thirst, and hunger (not sure about the others lol unless perhaps you can sleep once a day to get an exp boost) in the game where it's not a do or die, but more like getting a boost if the meter is not empty, could promote interactivity with players that indulge in the profession of food and drink making.

Aeander · September 2020

Bloodaxes said:

Aeander said:

I really hope not. Survival mechanics are those which expressly define something as less fun, and more micromanaged.

Keep the hunger, thirst, sleep, and horniness meters out. I want to play my character, not babysit them.

I agree to an extent. We already have plenty of micromanagement in the current mmos, with daily quests and farming X to get Y. Those mechanics can be daunting, if done in a certain way.

With that said, having thirst, and hunger (not sure about the others lol unless perhaps you can sleep once a day to get an exp boost) in the game where it's not a do or die, but more like getting a boost if the meter is not empty, could promote interactivity with players that indulge in the profession of food and drink making.

We already have a function for food and drink in the form of stat buffs and/or hp restoration though. This is one of the things that makes Breath of the Wild one of the few fun survival games - it doesn't rely on nagging meters and instead has you seek out bonuses. It's positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement.

Lobotomist · September 2020

Survival games are the next MMOs. No question about it. They are the next step in evolution.

But they need to bring in PVE elements, and naturally expend the server pop.

Athlas was kind of a hope that something like that was on horizon. But instead it turned to be ARK clone ( quite literally )

I think that one good example was very overlooked game : Life is Feudal ( mmo )

Bloodaxes · September 2020

Aeander said:

Bloodaxes said:

Aeander said:

I really hope not. Survival mechanics are those which expressly define something as less fun, and more micromanaged.

Keep the hunger, thirst, sleep, and horniness meters out. I want to play my character, not babysit them.

I agree to an extent. We already have plenty of micromanagement in the current mmos, with daily quests and farming X to get Y. Those mechanics can be daunting, if done in a certain way.

With that said, having thirst, and hunger (not sure about the others lol unless perhaps you can sleep once a day to get an exp boost) in the game where it's not a do or die, but more like getting a boost if the meter is not empty, could promote interactivity with players that indulge in the profession of food and drink making.

We already have a function for food and drink in the form of stat buffs and/or hp restoration though. This is one of the things that makes Breath of the Wild one of the few fun survival games - it doesn't rely on nagging meters and instead has you seek out bonuses. It's positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement.

It can be improved upon tough.

In fallout 76 for example, if you don't eat or drink, a portion of your max health and stamina is red. You can still fight and do whatever you want, but you're "gimped" until you take some food and/or water. This is not a "harsh" penalty (considering it's a survival game) and incentives players to carry food/drinks and equipping perks to make it better.

In a game like WoW for example, whilst leveling, there's no point in carrying food/drinks because fighting monsters is easy. You only start using them for dungeons and/or whilst pvping. That is an area where it could be improved. This let's players who like crafting engage with other players to build an economy.

It doesn't need to be overly harsh, but there needs to be an incentive so that players have to be wary of their surroundings, and whether or not they can hold out without supplies for long before needing to resupply themselves.

Aeander · September 2020

Yeah, I don't want anything Fallout 70-shits being the standard for anything in the MMO genre going forward.

Whenever there's a design question that relies on negative reinforcement, ask yourself if this can be better achieved through positive means that improve the player experience.

Bloodaxes · September 2020

Another thing missing in most mmos that can be found in survival games, is environmental danger.

If you're traversing a snowstorm, you should require to provide heat to your character or end taking damage. Same goes for volcanoes and such. Most mmos take the "safe" route where you're magically impervious to everything.

FFXI also required players to buy maps, else you're going in blind. Nowadays, you magically already know the whole terrain. In my opinion, there should be a sense of danger and mystery while exploring.

Amathe · September 2020

I don't mind a few survival elements; e.g., needing food and drink, weather effects if not too key-grindy, and so on.

But I don't want to be Gandalf rubbing two sticks together for a campfire, or Legelos digging a latrine.

Survival games strike me as a passing fad. And they don't interest me much at all.

cameltosis · September 2020

Bloodaxes said:

The survival genre was a very popular craze that has brought us a ton of different games for those that enjoy them. After a while they started slowly phasing out, apart of a couple ones like Dayz, Ark etc. With games like New World, which incorporates certain elements of a survival game in an mmo, I can't help but wonder if that's a possible future for the mmorpg genre.

Most mmos have become quite stale (and frankly unoriginal). Something fresh has to show up, and this mesh of genres might be a good start. Another thing I wish we see more is the elimination of levels. Bring back the runescape style! Let people focus on whatever skill they desire to level instead of being handed everything on a silver platter. This would be perfect in survival scenario, as in 99% of them you start by harvesting stone/wood in order to get tools and become more efficient.

What do you people think? Will there be more companies trying such an approach, or will the survival genre remain as is for those that enjoy pvping with a sprinkle of content?

The future of the "MMO" genre is diverse.

To be an MMO, all you need is a few hundred players within the same virtual environment. It's a feature, a technical feature, rather than a full on genre. This means you can take any genre, add a few hundred players, and it becomes massively multiplayer.

So, we already have RPGs. Sure, the MMORPG genre has gotten a bit stale, but thats just part of the natural cycle of art. Give it some time and MMORPGs will get a revamp and become popular again. Not to mention there are still quite a few kicking about with healthy populations, we're just lacking new ones. Part of the problem is that modern RPGs have been heavily focused on story, which isn't roleplaying and also doesn't work well in a multiplayer environment. When the switch back to gameplay and roleplaying happens, it'll benefit mmorpgs a lot.

We already have a few FPS's. This is where I see major growth in the future as the gaming market is already used to playing online multiplayer shooters. I'm sure we'll get some more long term mmofps's like planetside, but I also predict that we'll get more short term FPSes like CoD scaling up their player numbers. Think 500 player maps in Battlefront. My dream is to be able to do large scale re-enactments, like the D-Day landings with 1000s of players to really give us that sense of scale and carnage.

The survival genre isn't too far off already, just lacking the player numbers to be considered massively multiplayer. So, I think we'll get some MMO survival games in the future. That said, I really don't think we'll get many. Despite the popularity of a few big names, the genre is still pretty small compared to many others. It's a short-term trend that is already passing. I think if they can figure out a way to focus on the building and hunting aspects, and less on the pvp, then they'll be more popular.

Battle-royales...meh. They could scale up the numbers to be massively multiplayer, but I don't see it being a benefit from a gameplay point of view. Also, this is yet another short term trend, with a few big names and not much else going for it.

Racing games and RTS's I don't see scaling up to mmo numbers. Could you imagine a race with 250+ racers? It would be carnage! Alright, so maybe a carmageddon style might work, but it'd be pretty niche. Same with RTS's, the sorts of gameplay we enjoy now just doesn't scale up to mmo numbers. Maybe someone can rethink the gameplay to make it viable with loads of players.

Action / Adventure games could be interesting. This is where the MMORPG market has been drifting towards anyway as there is extremely little roleplaying involved in today's games. So, remove it completely. This style of game is more suited to the drop-in-drop-out gamers. Think soemthing like Assassins Creed, or Zelda, just with hundreds of players involved.

How about MOBAs? Not the strict top-down style, more the general "battle arena" ethos. Like WAR's scenarios or SWTOR's battlegrounds, but scaled up. Pick a character, queue up, fight. I imagine this being something like the Battle for Helms Deep, but with all players rather than AI. Tons of uruk-hai players assaulting the deeping wall, defended by human and elf players.

Sports games and fighting games are also genres I don't think will get the mmo treatment. Sports have pretty strict rules, you're never going to get a 200v200 football match. Fighting games are also pretty focused on the 1v1 model, scaling up the numbers is likely to be very difficult and likely to appeal to a different user base entirely, assuming such a user base exists.

With all of these, I wouldn't expect them to be exclusively mmo. Something like CoD, for example, would still retain it's smaller maps for more convenient play, but maybe every 3 hours the mmo map opens up for use, turning it into more of an event rather than an ongoing thing. Or, perhaps only open during peak hours on friday and saturday nights? I don't know, i guess it'd need experimenting with.

Asheram · September 2020

Well some say mmos are just single player games now, so survival games sort of fix that because if you are not in a clan you will get steamrolled and lose everything. But being part of a clan you turn into harvest slave.

Bloodaxes · September 2020

Asheram said:

Well some say mmos are just single player games now, so survival games sort of fix that because if you are not in a clan you will get steamrolled and lose everything. But being part of a clan you turn into harvest slave.

I too have a feeling that we'll see more coop style online games in the future, as its seemingly unviable to go for mmos longevity wise.

Scot · September 2020

Survival needs less content, as that's cheaper quite possibly. Make sure players pay for a KS, a pre-order, early access and casino gameplay for the privilege of having less content mind you!

Ungood · September 2020

My personal feelings are that "Survival" games without Perma Death are just generic MMO's designed to have annoying features.

I don't know the future of MMO's right now, but I will say this, neither do the Developers, as the truth is, since copying WoW is not working that well anymore, all these AAA companies have no idea what to do, and are just flying blind on where to go.

Outside some Kickstarter Fails, I am really seeing the future of MMO's being Indie developers that have returned to having a passion for their product, not just people looking at a spreadsheet and data lists trying to find the best way to monetize their product.

AlBQuirky · September 2020

Bloodaxes said:

Aeander said:

Bloodaxes said:

Aeander said:

I really hope not. Survival mechanics are those which expressly define something as less fun, and more micromanaged.

Keep the hunger, thirst, sleep, and horniness meters out. I want to play my character, not babysit them.

I agree to an extent. We already have plenty of micromanagement in the current mmos, with daily quests and farming X to get Y. Those mechanics can be daunting, if done in a certain way.

With that said, having thirst, and hunger (not sure about the others lol unless perhaps you can sleep once a day to get an exp boost) in the game where it's not a do or die, but more like getting a boost if the meter is not empty, could promote interactivity with players that indulge in the profession of food and drink making.

We already have a function for food and drink in the form of stat buffs and/or hp restoration though. This is one of the things that makes Breath of the Wild one of the few fun survival games - it doesn't rely on nagging meters and instead has you seek out bonuses. It's positive reinforcement rather than negative reinforcement.

It can be improved upon tough.

In fallout 76 for example, if you don't eat or drink, a portion of your max health and stamina is red. You can still fight and do whatever you want, but you're "gimped" until you take some food and/or water. This is not a "harsh" penalty (considering it's a survival game) and incentives players to carry food/drinks and equipping perks to make it better.

In a game like WoW for example, whilst leveling, there's no point in carrying food/drinks because fighting monsters is easy. You only start using them for dungeons and/or whilst pvping. That is an area where it could be improved. This let's players who like crafting engage with other players to build an economy.

It doesn't need to be overly harsh, but there needs to be an incentive so that players have to be wary of their surroundings, and whether or not they can hold out without supplies for long before needing to resupply themselves.

I liked the way EQ1 handled food and drink. You got debuffs if hungry or thirsty, but you didn't have to manually eat or drink. You just had to carry food and drink in your backpack and you just got an occasional message saying you ate or drank. The "survival" element was present, but not "in your face."

Survival games appeal to a specific set of players. Is it enough to warrant MMO size games? I don't know

Sovrath · September 2020

I certainly hope so. Besides, Survival games are closer to what I thought mmorpgs would actually be like.

Scot · September 2020

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Scot said:

Survival needs less content, as that's cheaper quite possibly. Make sure players pay for a KS, a pre-order, early access and casino gameplay for the privilege of having less content mind you!

Well, in New World for $40 I already had over 40 hours of fun, and I'm eagerly waiting to play more. So I can confidently say that my investment was already worth it.

It is not that a survival heavy, content lacking game can't be enjoyable, it is how much more enjoyable a game that relies on content rather than mechanics would be. That said, I have no idea of how much survival there is in NW or what content there is.

timeraider · September 2020

While I fully get that people like survival hybrids and why... I must admit that I will never fully get games with survival mechanics in them nor like them.

But maybe its simply because they are so easy to make and so 70% of them are cookiecutter unreal engine asset store rips like Rust, Ark, Atlas... that kinda stuff. The kinda stuff noone would even get close to if their friend wasnt playing it and so they have to play it to make their friend enjoy the game XD

Mostly only can handle survival mechanics if its a single player game

Asheram · September 2020

timeraider said:

While I fully get that people like survival hybrids and why... I must admit that I will never fully get games with survival mechanics in them nor like them.

But maybe its simply because they are so easy to make and so 70% of them are cookiecutter unreal engine asset store rips like Rust, Ark, Atlas... that kinda stuff. The kinda stuff noone would even get close to if their friend wasnt playing it and so they have to play it to make their friend enjoy the game XD

Mostly only can handle survival mechanics if its a single player game

Well of the 3 you mentioned (because dont know about rust) Ark and Atlas have single player modes.

AlBQuirky · September 2020

timeraider said:

Mostly only can handle survival mechanics if its a single player game

Same here. Survival in a multiplayer setting has no interest for me. I play lots of Minecraft... solo

ArChWind · September 2020

Put on your reality hat and go outside. It's the best survival game you can ever play.

Howdy, Stranger!

Is the future of MMOs, Survival Hyrbids?

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Is the future of MMOs, Survival Hyrbids?

Comments