Star Wars: The Old Republic - The Force Is With Your Maps | MMORPG.com

System · October 2020

Star Wars: The Old Republic - The Force Is With Your Maps | MMORPG.com

Falko takes this week's instalment and talks about MMORPg map sizes, specifically SWTORs.

Sevenstar61 · October 2020

Hoth gives the same feeling as Tatooine if not better - though I hate to quest there during Winter LOL. I think that the idea of creating the exhausting zone when you are close to the limits of the map is a brilliant idea, you still can see for miles and you can still run into it, but you die if you go too far. On Hoth, the snow will get heavier and visibility is limited due to it... brilliant.

I need to get there LOL, I did not think it was possible.

aero2664 · October 2020

Yes most of the planets with wilderness reminds me of Star War Galaxy's but it does fall short of the scale of Galaxy's. I guess I'm an old mmo player looking back at days almost 20yrs ago, but it was so open!

6stack_Chris · October 2020

I honestly really enjoyed SWTOR. It is one of those games that I go back to time and time again. The game itself is just beautiful, the quests are fun, the classes all feel great. The only downfall that always get to me is how rigid the animations feel.

Tiller · October 2020

Nothing compares to SWG in map size. SWTOR to me felt smallish at times depending on the map you were on, and Tattooine never felt wide open like SWG. As for FFXIV the later expansion maps are pretty big, what makes them feel smaller is the ability to fly in them.

klash2def · October 2020

aero2664 said:

Yes most of the planets with wilderness reminds me of Star War Galaxy's but it does fall short of the scale of Galaxy's. I guess I'm an old mmo player looking back at days almost 20yrs ago, but it was so open!

Kind of hard to compare because the only thing these games have in common is the IP. I do agree about the scale thing though. SWG is a huge game world. They nailed the scope and feeling of living in that universe. But still...

SWTOR for my money is the best STAR WARS game between the two. Star Wars is a power sci-fi fantasy about the battle between morally grey, good and evil. TOR captures that way better than SWG. SWG is a giant sandbox game but it doesn't do a better job on the main thing I/ millions like most about star wars which is the story. All that freedom in SWG comes at a cost of story. I'm aware you can (Literally) build your own story in swg, but its not the same.

I mean standing in a cantina for hours giving out buffs isn't my idea of a Star Wars Story.. but a light sided Sith that ultimately becomes the Emperor's wrath, only to turn on him to take his power for himself IS. lol

I enjoy sandbox games, but in a Star Wars game, I want to experience Star Wars storytelling, i've found if you look at all the Star Wars games as a body of work, the best ones are on the rails because they are trying to capture the story.

To me the perfect SW game doesn't exist, but I would love to have the Storytelling of TOR, The Freedom of SWG and the Graphics of Star Wars Battlefront 2 all in one product.

SWTOR is the closest we have to that right now, it has a little bit of some of the graphics (stylized) some of the freedom (Themepark MMO) and ALL of the story (Some class Stories are Film quality)

Im still waiting on that perfect Star Wars experience.

Gorwe · October 2020

6stack_Chris said:

I honestly really enjoyed SWTOR. It is one of those games that I go back to time and time again. The game itself is just beautiful, the quests are fun, the classes all feel great. The only downfall that always get to me is how rigid the animations feel.

My problem is that I have truly and honestly finished what I had in SWTOR. I enjoyed it immensely, but I feel like it's over for me. Time for other adventures, I guess. I'll see what's what some times later. Maybe afterwards, time to go Undersea(some BS, what do I know?

) first.

Tiller · October 2020

klash2def said:

aero2664 said:

Yes most of the planets with wilderness reminds me of Star War Galaxy's but it does fall short of the scale of Galaxy's. I guess I'm an old mmo player looking back at days almost 20yrs ago, but it was so open!

Kind of hard to compare because the only thing these games have in common is the IP. I do agree about the scale thing though. SWG is a huge game world. They nailed the scope and feeling of living in that universe. But still...

SWTOR for my money is the best STAR WARS game between the two. Star Wars is a power sci-fi fantasy about the battle between morally grey, good and evil. TOR captures that way better than SWG. SWG is a giant sandbox game but it doesn't do a better job on the main thing I/ millions like most about star wars which is the story. All that freedom in SWG comes at a cost of story. I'm aware you can (Literally) build your own story in swg, but its not the same.

I mean standing in a cantina for hours giving out buffs isn't my idea of a Star Wars Story.. but a light sided Sith that ultimately becomes the Emperor's wrath, only to turn on him to take his power for himself IS. lol

I enjoy sandbox games, but in a Star Wars game, I want to experience Star Wars storytelling, i've found if you look at all the Star Wars games as a body of work, the best ones are on the rails because they are trying to capture the story.

To me the perfect SW game doesn't exist, but I would love to have the Storytelling of TOR, The Freedom of SWG and the Graphics of Star Wars Battlefront 2 all in one product.

SWTOR is the closest we have to that right now, it has a little bit of some of the graphics (stylized) some of the freedom (Themepark MMO) and ALL of the story (Some class Stories are Film quality)

Im still waiting on that perfect Star Wars experience.

I think the reason why SWG may have appealed to some folks is that it was less a game and more a grown-up sim (with role play elements) of what it would be like to live in the Star Wars universe. SWTOR is a game with story. They were two different products entirely. Once they tried to change SWG to more of a game, it drove most older players off.

I think vets need to start asking for a Star Wars Multiplayer RPG simulation. A game like SWG that lets you just live in the SWG world. The day to day humdrum seems to be what people liked about it. Everything took time and the fans didn't mind. EVE seems to be the closest thing still in existence to it; and people either love or hate it.

Nebless · October 2020

Out of all the games I've played I think SWToR had some of the worst maps. Some like Hoth and Tat are like everyone's said - great, but others are just a mess trying to get from one point to the other especially if it involved crossing a map to get to another map and the fast travel set up isn't a great help since it seems more the 'you can get anywhere from any place', vice 'go HERE' to be close you where you wan to go.

I actually quit playing twice on one planet because it was so confusing. Finally came back and muddled through it so I could move on to the next planet.

Nebless · October 2020

Tiller said:

I think vets need to start asking for a Star Wars Multiplayer RPG simulation. A game like SWG that lets you just live in the SWG world. The day to day humdrum seems to be what people liked about it. Everything took time and the fans didn't mind. EVE seems to be the closest thing still in existence to it; and people either love or hate it.

Well they already have a few SWG Emu's set in either the pre-CU or NGE 'era'. The NGE one Legends has a fairly steady population and they've been adding buildings and content pretty regular.

Tiller · October 2020

Nebless said:

Tiller said:

I think vets need to start asking for a Star Wars Multiplayer RPG simulation. A game like SWG that lets you just live in the SWG world. The day to day humdrum seems to be what people liked about it. Everything took time and the fans didn't mind. EVE seems to be the closest thing still in existence to it; and people either love or hate it.

Well they already have a few SWG Emu's set in either the pre-CU or NGE 'era'. The NGE one Legends has a fairly steady population and they've been adding buildings and content pretty regular.

Yeah I've played most of them. Emulators just don't have the same feeling as a live officially run game for me. It's more like visiting a museum rather than living in it.

Alomar · October 2020

Wanted so much more from Swtor...in the end it's just a game I return to for a month or less every expansion...but don't really care much about.

Amathe · October 2020

I played SWTOR beginning with early access. It's a good game. I especially enjoyed the stories and Huttball.

Iselin · October 2020

SWTOR always felt to me like Mass Effect does Star Wars. The same very guided game progression with great stories and interesting NPCs and companions all done on narrow corridors surrounded by terrain and buildings that are not part of the playable world.

It worked fine for me in the ME single player games but it felt just too guided and confined for an MMORPG.

Gorwe · October 2020

klash2def said:

aero2664 said:

Yes most of the planets with wilderness reminds me of Star War Galaxy's but it does fall short of the scale of Galaxy's. I guess I'm an old mmo player looking back at days almost 20yrs ago, but it was so open!

Kind of hard to compare because the only thing these games have in common is the IP. I do agree about the scale thing though. SWG is a huge game world. They nailed the scope and feeling of living in that universe. But still...

SWTOR for my money is the best STAR WARS game between the two. Star Wars is a power sci-fi fantasy about the battle between morally grey, good and evil. TOR captures that way better than SWG. SWG is a giant sandbox game but it doesn't do a better job on the main thing I/ millions like most about star wars which is the story. All that freedom in SWG comes at a cost of story. I'm aware you can (Literally) build your own story in swg, but its not the same.

I mean standing in a cantina for hours giving out buffs isn't my idea of a Star Wars Story.. but a light sided Sith that ultimately becomes the Emperor's wrath, only to turn on him to take his power for himself IS. lol

I enjoy sandbox games, but in a Star Wars game, I want to experience Star Wars storytelling, i've found if you look at all the Star Wars games as a body of work, the best ones are on the rails because they are trying to capture the story.

To me the perfect SW game doesn't exist, but I would love to have the Storytelling of TOR, The Freedom of SWG and the Graphics of Star Wars Battlefront 2 all in one product.

SWTOR is the closest we have to that right now, it has a little bit of some of the graphics (stylized) some of the freedom (Themepark MMO) and ALL of the story (Some class Stories are Film quality)

Im still waiting on that perfect Star Wars experience.

There is so much potential within Star Wars, but yes you are right. All of that potential has one common component: "on rails story". I'm still amazed that nobody tried to create a Jedi Knight 3(Fallen Order could be a starting point ; a very good starting point) or a Space Sim a la Colony Wars. CW + SW I mean really, do I have to spell it out?

While I haven't played nearly enough Star Wars games, SWTOR still ranks as one of the finest experiences I've had. While FO or JK are perhaps better, SWTOR is just better as a game: much more replayable, 8 stories(! lol !), it was a very enjoyable experience.

JudgeUK · October 2020

I have to ask if the author has really played FFXIV. Seems like he picked a popular game out of a hat and just pasted the title in for reader attention.
FFXIV maps are exactly right for the game. They show the complete area, teleports, local district names etc. What do you want? Some kind of satnav addon included in the game?

Levityen · October 2020

FFXIV maps are like segmented theme parks. It is the worst aspect of the game and the main reason why I left it in the pass. But back at it now because I have found the right way to play the game. And that is to follow the main story. I really do hope they can change that one aspect and make it a huge open world.
I believe The Lord of the Rings Online has one of the best open massive world experiences yet. Much more than SWTOR has.

JeroKane · October 2020

Levityen said:

FFXIV maps are like segmented theme parks. It is the worst aspect of the game and the main reason why I left it in the pass. But back at it now because I have found the right way to play the game. And that is to follow the main story. I really do hope they can change that one aspect and make it a huge open world.
I believe The Lord of the Rings Online has one of the best open massive world experiences yet. Much more than SWTOR has.

FFXIV pre ARR was far worse. The maps were absolutely terrible.

They made vast improvements to these existing maps with ARR release, but there was only so much they could do without having to entirely recreate each map. Which was just undoable in such short timeframe Joshi P.'s team had before re-release.
I think they did a remarkable job in such short time-frame and the success that followed speaks for itself.

The new maps that came with the expansions were much better, larger and more open.
Especially with Stormblood, some of the maps were pretty vast.

Allwynd_01 · October 2020

Tiller said:

Nebless said:

Tiller said:

I think vets need to start asking for a Star Wars Multiplayer RPG simulation. A game like SWG that lets you just live in the SWG world. The day to day humdrum seems to be what people liked about it. Everything took time and the fans didn't mind. EVE seems to be the closest thing still in existence to it; and people either love or hate it.

Well they already have a few SWG Emu's set in either the pre-CU or NGE 'era'. The NGE one Legends has a fairly steady population and they've been adding buildings and content pretty regular.

Yeah I've played most of them. Emulators just don't have the same feeling as a live officially run game for me. It's more like visiting a museum rather than living in it.

I played a lot on Vanilla WoW private servers and when Blizzard launched WoW Classic, I thought I will have the best experience ever. Turns out the official servers are a bigger cesspit than most private servers are. I played on Blizzard's official server for like 2 months and on the 3rd month, I cancelled my subscription and deleted my Battle Net account for good.

Turns out I was having more fun on private servers.

I did not really play SWG when it was alive officially, I remember trying it out in the summer of 2011 and I don't remember much. I think it spawned me in a city on Corellia - either Coronet or Tyrena and I literally had no idea what to do or where to go. I couldn't navigate the game at all, walking felt awkward, the UI felt confusing, I didn't know how to talk to NPCs or how to recognize which NPCs have quests and after struggling to accomplish basic things for like 5-10 minutes, I uninstalled it and decided it was a horrible and confusing game and I had no idea how some people would even play it...

Flash-forward to November 2019, I decided to give it a serious try, back in 2017, I tried playing it for like 2 days on the SWG Emu Basilisk server, I got a better grasp of the game, but decided that the lack of quest chains makes it boring to me and quit again. So in 2019 I started playing on the Legends server and decided to really learn the game and get completely absorbed into the world. It was my most memorable and amazing MMORPG experience after Vanilla WoW in 2006, and that speaks a lot. I'm currently taking break from gaming, but I still played SWG the last time I played games a few months ago and will come back to it...

That story aside, I enjoy the private server for SWG, it isn't any different than any official server.

What's good about private servers is that they may end up providing a better experience than the official server and actually run the server not for financial gain, but to give something to players. Like it is the case with Legends and some Vanilla+ WoW servers, they are developing custom content that they're implementing on top to provide players with a new and unique experience and it's totally worth it.

If I kept playing WoW Classic on Blizzard, I'd be left only with a thumb up my butt crack as Blizzard doesn't care about Classic or the players or anything - they will release all the content and then move their focus to TBC and Classic will slowly die and they won't give two shits about it or add any new content. Therefore I think it's better off to play on private servers - you can choose to make a donation to support the servers' existence or you can freeload like most people do and at least don't lose money in the end and if you love the game so much, there will probably always be "another" server out there.

Viper482 · October 2020

The problem with SWTOR maps is there is nothing to see. Nothing makes me want to explore, the map is just there so you have somewhere to go for a quest.

ESO and GW2 have much better zones than both FFXIV and SWTOR imo.

JeroKane · October 2020

Viper482 said:

The problem with SWTOR maps is there is nothing to see. Nothing makes me want to explore, the map is just there so you have somewhere to go for a quest.

ESO and GW2 have much better zones than both FFXIV and SWTOR imo.

ESO maybe yes, but GW2 not that much.

The only MMO's that really encouraged exploring were SOE's MMO's SWG (pre-NGE) and EverQuest 2.
Even Vanilla World of Warcraft's zones were really satisfying.

Sevenstar61 · October 2020

I think that devs in SWTOR missed the great opportunity to add fun to exploration with introduction of the seeker droid and binocular missions. There is so much that they could do with it if they would add chance of great rewards - could be unique decorations etc.
Alderaan stronghold is so huge and needs so much stuff to decorate it...

JeroKane · October 2020

Sevenstar61 said:

I think that devs in SWTOR missed the great opportunity to add fun to exploration with introduction of the seeker droid and binocular missions. There is so much that they could do with it if they would add chance of great rewards - could be unique decorations etc.
Alderaan stronghold is so huge and needs so much stuff to decorate it...

The Datacrons were actually pretty cool feature though that encouraged exploring the maps boundaries and some were really tough to get, making it a minigame in itself.

I thought it was one of the cooler side activities in SWTOR at the time.

Mendel · October 2020

Tiller said:

klash2def said:

aero2664 said:

Yes most of the planets with wilderness reminds me of Star War Galaxy's but it does fall short of the scale of Galaxy's. I guess I'm an old mmo player looking back at days almost 20yrs ago, but it was so open!

Kind of hard to compare because the only thing these games have in common is the IP. I do agree about the scale thing though. SWG is a huge game world. They nailed the scope and feeling of living in that universe. But still...

SWTOR for my money is the best STAR WARS game between the two. Star Wars is a power sci-fi fantasy about the battle between morally grey, good and evil. TOR captures that way better than SWG. SWG is a giant sandbox game but it doesn't do a better job on the main thing I/ millions like most about star wars which is the story. All that freedom in SWG comes at a cost of story. I'm aware you can (Literally) build your own story in swg, but its not the same.

I mean standing in a cantina for hours giving out buffs isn't my idea of a Star Wars Story.. but a light sided Sith that ultimately becomes the Emperor's wrath, only to turn on him to take his power for himself IS. lol

I enjoy sandbox games, but in a Star Wars game, I want to experience Star Wars storytelling, i've found if you look at all the Star Wars games as a body of work, the best ones are on the rails because they are trying to capture the story.

To me the perfect SW game doesn't exist, but I would love to have the Storytelling of TOR, The Freedom of SWG and the Graphics of Star Wars Battlefront 2 all in one product.

SWTOR is the closest we have to that right now, it has a little bit of some of the graphics (stylized) some of the freedom (Themepark MMO) and ALL of the story (Some class Stories are Film quality)

Im still waiting on that perfect Star Wars experience.

I think the reason why SWG may have appealed to some folks is that it was less a game and more a grown-up sim (with role play elements) of what it would be like to live in the Star Wars universe. SWTOR is a game with story. They were two different products entirely. Once they tried to change SWG to more of a game, it drove most older players off.

I think vets need to start asking for a Star Wars Multiplayer RPG simulation. A game like SWG that lets you just live in the SWG world. The day to day humdrum seems to be what people liked about it. Everything took time and the fans didn't mind. EVE seems to be the closest thing still in existence to it; and people either love or hate it.

I think the future of the MMORPG, for any genre, is probably more of a simulation than a game. Certainly Star Wars and SWG are two examples of this, SW:TOR being a game (closer to a visual novel with everything scripted) ((You have become better at watching cut scenes (284)!)) and SWG more of a simulated world experience. I'd love to see a similar simulation for some fantasy worlds, most have been more game-like to date.

But beyond just SF and Fantasy, could you imagine a good Horror simulation set in the Aliens universe? Or a Horror-based Conan simulation? Cthulhu, anyone?

Ra-zac · October 2020

Oh wow..i didn't even realize the game was still played.. the guild i was in, bwc completely dropped it from their roster, and i rolled through all my characters awhile back, many across different servers and rarely was there more than 3-5 people on fleet... i remember some of the pvp servers i was on would have 3-5 full instances running on fleet. I could just roll through story arcs, changing it up as i go which is why I've made dark side jedi, and even light side sith, a bounty hunter with a conscience, and a cold blooded merc... who loves killing as much as hk. But it was still fun to run the harder guild runs or just camp a pub base killing everyone and everything till they ran to fleet for backup and 30-40 people would roll in to fight. *le-sigh*

lahnmir · October 2020

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

SWTOR is one of the worst MMORPG example when it comes to exploration... only a few planets have decently large unblocked areas, all others are one way corridors. And even those "open planets" didn't really feel like planets, as the landscape surface available was very small.

UO, EQ1, AC1, AO, DAoC, L2, SWG, EQ2, WOW, LOTRO, AA, TERA, GW2, ESO, and more recently the upcoming NW (New World), all those mainstream games (and I probably have forgotten a few) have worlds that are more immersive and better at favoring exploration than SWTOR.

Don’t know why you got the WTFs, I couldn’t agree more. Small, lifeless and plastic are some of the nicer words to describe SWtOR zones. They have no soul, no charm and no life to them, I think they rate among the worst in the industry.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

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