A Disappointment?

nthnaoun · May 2006

I never followed or heard much about Warhammer the tabletop game. I know you built pieces and other stuff, but I never followed it. I was initially interested in this game, because Mythic was making it. DAoC was my first MMO and I started playing it in the summer of 2002. I want a game like that game used to be.

WAR doesn't seem like it's going to amount to what DAoC was. DAoC had a very mature community and people enjoyed hunting for hours together. People used social functions, such as the lfg displays and functioned as a real community as a whole. What I see in WAR is a bunch of kids drawn to it like many people were to WoW. They are even talking of puting it on the XBOX 360 or whatever. I'm not saying that there won't be a mature crowd, but the majority of the crowd seems to be like that of WoW. I could be wrong, but how many older family guys or gals buy an XBOX 360 to game on several hours a day. The truth is that console games are marketed towards kids. Adults buy them too, but they are mostly owned by kids. So in theory, if WAR goes on a console, it will increase the amount of WoW like customers to WAR. DAoC was not like that, which is what will make it a ten times better game than WAR.

I just want to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe I am way off base here. If so, maybe your comments and insights will encourage me to try this game, but as for now, my initial enthusiasm wore off when the crowds came.

busdriver · May 2006

This is the exact thing that makes me uncertain will I be playing this game or not. As it already is, WAR will attract a huge crowd from WoW. If you add console kiddies to that and you have a community that would make Satan himself shun away in fear. Other than that this game looks AMAZING but community can break any MMO, no matter how good the game itself is.

nthnaoun · May 2006

Originally posted by busdriver
This is the exact thing that makes me uncertain will I be playing this game or not. As it already is, WAR will attract a huge crowd from WoW. If you add console kiddies to that and you have a community that would make Satan himself shun away in fear. Other than that this game looks AMAZING but community can break any MMO, no matter how good the game itself is.

Exactly my point.

Vyava · May 2006

I have found a good community in every game I have enjoyed. I have never in games I hate.

If WAR is any good I am sure I will find people I will want to have a community with.

nthnaoun · May 2006

Originally posted by Vyava

I have found a good community in every game I have enjoyed. I have never in games I hate.

If WAR is any good I am sure I will find people I will want to have a community with.

I have enjoyed every game I played, including WOW. However, a good community isn't something I want to have to search for. I want it to be the majority, and if possible, everybody. DAOC was like this and because Mythic was making the game, I thought WAR would be like it too. But from what I'm hearing, I will have to search for the good community, like in WOW. If that is the case, then I will stay with DAOC until it dies or until I find a game with a community like it.

Vyava · May 2006

Originally posted by nthnaoun

(1.)I have enjoyed every game I played, including WOW. However, a good community isn't something I want to have to search for. I want it to be the majority, and if possible, everybody.

(2.)DAOC was like this and because Mythic was making the game, I thought WAR would be like it too. But from what I'm hearing, I will have to search for the good community, like in WOW. If that is the case, then I will stay with DAOC until it dies or until I find a game with a community like it.

1. Utopias don't exist in reality. If you want to find people to have fun with don't expect them to come to you. Browse forusm to find a server and such.

2. The DAoC community was never that much better than any other game, you just ahd fun with the players you interacted with. The people you hated you most likely avoided. Some WoW servers have amazing communities. Some FFXI servers have amazing communties. Get the picture?

Noctique · May 2006

The MMO community is not what it used to be, nor will it ever be the same again, with WoW and other MMO's it has brought a new generation in to the fold and as such this generation will now always be part of the community we all want to play in, older games do not apeal to this generation, its graphics probably arnt shiney enough?

Mythic are putting WAR together and basing it all or as much on team play as they can, moral works better in partys, quests function for everyone in areas, and of course the oposing faction always battling for the zones you want.

There doing there best to build a game that will be community driven, the fact that a lot of old DAoC players have gained intrest in this product is always a good sign, prehaps just mabey they will show an example that to play in this game you have to use team work, and for those that don't there going to loose out very quickly if there not nice to who they group and play with.

As for consol gaming, PS2 had FF XI, and I played the ragnaros server, the players I met and played with (didnt have much choice, grouping was the way to level) all respected the otehr class and got on with each other, sure XBox 360 is somthing diffrent all together, but, its still a consol.

Its not said that W.A.R will make it to 360, they just ported the game to show that it could be done, if they decide to do it then theres the arguments for and against a MMO on a consol there too.

People have worries about this game sure, but saying Im not going to play because I may run in to some one that speaks in "leet" and say "u r noob" every once in a while is just silly.

Communitys are what people make them, if people like yourself dont lead what they think is right, then a community misses out on you and there for is drumed down or hurt.

just my 2 cent.

Prosercunus · May 2006

They aim consoles at kids? Not sure were you get your figures but the Average Xbox owner is 18-24/Male.

Fenrir767 · May 2006

I was about to say the average console gamer these days are your seniors and juniors in high school/college students. There are more people over the age of 18 buying consoles then there are kids also the rating of War will keep the game away from some kids for sure.

Greyface · May 2006

WoW opened a door into the mass market that can't be closed. The financial viability of all future american MMOs will be judged on how much of that WoW market a game can attract. Will WAR attract the WoW kiddies? Honestly, I really hope so. Mythic is building the game I've wanted to play for a long, long time. I want them to make oodles of money. That said, I'm confident that the developers are doing all that they can to make a community-based game. DAoC didn't get it's good community by chance - it was the cooperative nature of the PvP that created that community. In WoW, individual achievment is the end-all and be-all in all aspects of the game, from solo questing on up through PvP titles and Raid drops, everything a player does in WoW is ultimately about improving one's own character. I think their community reflects that kind of me-first attitude. In DAoC, all the players are striving toward the same goals, and that is what I believe made everyone so cool toward one another there. WAR is trying the smame thing on a larger scale, and it just might work. Remember, just because something is popular, does not mean it will be bad. Give Mythic a chance.

Krun · May 2006

What makes people think console games are for kids and PC games are for adults?

I'm 34 and have both a PC and a console. I prefer to play my games on the console as I use my PC for work and dont need a distraction of "ill just play .... " before I start work. Oh I missed work again. Oh well I'll eat next month.

Anyone that has used a Xbox or X360 knows that the majority of players on the LIVE service are at least 20+. I have only ever come across teenagers once on the service, I couldnt understand their squeeking voices so left the room. But every other game I played people sound and acts like adults.

X360's online service has great features to make sure you don't have to interact with players you dont want to. First you can set yourself a zone that ID's the type of gamer you are. Second if you come across some idiot you dont like you can leave a rating on them and mute them forever in everygame, This will mean you'll be less likely to be grouped with them and their friends.

Next Gen Consoles are for adults not kids.

Jumbled · May 2006

I don't think the lone wolfs will work very well in WAR since in a tight knit group it seems that the players will perform so much better with morale. Also with the collision engine Tanks will have a job and using stratagy and position will actually matter. So people will want to form good cohesive groups that way they'll be successful. I think that the mindless zerg crowd will get dominated in short order and people will realize they have to use their brains in combat which in turn will cause people to work together more and actually be friends rather than the usual "zerg teh priest noobs!" that is WoW.

nero0102 · May 2006

First it won't be that hard getting any Windows based PC game onto an Xbox, I heard it didn't take them long to do it at E3 just to show it could be done (I didn't hear whether or not they or Microsoft are pursuing each other about licensing the game for Xbox). Afterall, all the Xbox is is a standardized Windows PC in a cool case.

Where as Sony screwed themselves over by using proprietary parts.

Second, I think most of the WoW kiddies will still be stuck in the Barrens dueling each other for 8 hours a day while talking about chuck norris (still).

I think most of the people who are discontent and leaving (or wil be leaving) are actually ex-DAOC-SWG-Shadowbane people.

All the people who love PvE would be attracted to all the game currently out and turned off by WAR's focus.

Aside from that, the kids never lasted long at all in DAOC, because they were ostracized by the community. In WOW you can say what you want as long as you don't piss off your guild, your success had nothing to do with anyone outside your guild, since everything in the game is basically an instance.

In DAOC if you ran your mouth you could forget being able to use the RVR chat groups for info, and group invites for healing.

Maybe that experience would be good for them?

flea1 · May 2006

theres bad apples in any game and they come in all genders ages races. So saying i wont play war cause it may draw wow players is nothing but a petty cop out.

Also i played uo upon release. At first it was a tight comunity but over 3 years we became rabid animals to each other. Saying it was always mature there is kinda laughable. That was the first popular mmo btw.

Neurox1 · May 2006

Originally posted by nthnaoun

I never followed or heard much about Warhammer the tabletop game. I know you built pieces and other stuff, but I never followed it. I was initially interested in this game, because Mythic was making it. DAoC was my first MMO and I started playing it in the summer of 2002. I want a game like that game used to be.
WAR doesn't seem like it's going to amount to what DAoC was. DAoC had a very mature community and people enjoyed hunting for hours together. People used social functions, such as the lfg displays and functioned as a real community as a whole. What I see in WAR is a bunch of kids drawn to it like many people were to WoW. They are even talking of puting it on the XBOX 360 or whatever. I'm not saying that there won't be a mature crowd, but the majority of the crowd seems to be like that of WoW. I could be wrong, but how many older family guys or gals buy an XBOX 360 to game on several hours a day. The truth is that console games are marketed towards kids. Adults buy them too, but they are mostly owned by kids. So in theory, if WAR goes on a console, it will increase the amount of WoW like customers to WAR. DAoC was not like that, which is what will make it a ten times better game than WAR.
I just want to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe I am way off base here. If so, maybe your comments and insights will encourage me to try this game, but as for now, my initial enthusiasm wore off when the crowds came.

well your logic is there i wont disagree .. and even if it doesnt go to console there will probably be more kiddies playing it than who played DAOC ...

but the thing is the market is changing and more kids are playing MMO's these days ( WOW) ... and companies are seeing huge profits in this so they are making games like that ( im an SWG refugee and i saw how they dumbed down that game to get kids to play)

but all in all even with the community the way it might be .. i think this game will be fun ... and it will be a lot like wow .. but i think a little more complex than wow ... so kind of in the middle ..

will it be super mature and difficult and a older player Niche game? NO ..

will it be totally a kiddie game ? no i dont think so either ..

like i said it'll be a middle game .. youll have kids attratced to the graphcis and dwarves and the name ( sounds a lot like wow styles itself a lot like wow) .. but youll also have older WARHAMMER fans in their 20's and 30's playing too

i just hope mythic will cater to these older fans as well

i think war will be a little more mature than wow is

Volkmar · May 2006

I would like to ask the OP where are these "crowds" of rabid kids that would tear this game apart?

I mean, you seems to think they are already here? Is this causated by some particular thing? maybe the forum here on mmorpg.com? or some other fansite?

I don't say the game will not attract kiddies (beside, it will be rated Teen like all other mmorpgs, so... that won't remove any kids... not that a M rating would anyhow), but so far the communities I've seen, mostly this one and the warhammeralliance one, are pretty polite and constructive, for the most part.

So here it is, i just wanted to know where your idea come from.

bobtheblob · May 2006

One thing though, Its not good to assume that every kid will be horrible to play with, i started with DAOC when i was about 15, and i know plenty of younger MMO er's, also adults can be just as bad to get along with as kiddies.

As some others have said, just stick with the people you get along with! Also if they plan WAR carefully they might not implement many systems which are open to griefing, and hopefully the community will be better off for it!

Suolucider · May 2006

Originally posted by busdriver
This is the exact thing that makes me uncertain will I be playing this game or not. As it already is, WAR will attract a huge crowd from WoW. If you add console kiddies to that and you have a community that would make Satan himself shun away in fear. Other than that this game looks AMAZING but community can break any MMO, no matter how good the game itself is.

The problem with WoW is that everything is driving you towards one goal: Individual acheivement.

While they do literally force you to be social in order to advance to the highest ranks of each class, there is no real sicial community. Guilds are merely a means of aquirin what you personally need. The reputation of the guild is not important. The reputation of the members within the guild is not important. All it's about is getting 40 people together for scheduled runs through high level instances so that you can get your uber purple item of whatever.

Item farming is essensially the only reason to form a guild. In WoW PvP is gvg, but it's all meaningless.

Distortion0 · May 2006

Between DAoC and the Warhammer crowd, this game seems like it'll have a good community. I think ex-WoWers will be a minority which can be converted into healthy goreloving citizens. WoW players aren't the leapers of gaming, they are just misguided.

dimaryp · May 2006

I like the WoW "kiddies" much better that the elitest my MMORPG is better than yours. Atleast the WoW "kiddies" are not bashing everyone at every turn. Sorry, just a pet pev.

Any MMORPG that can make a game like what they put on paper will not be a disappointment. Mythic has some experience, and they seem to have a focus. Everything is about war. If PvP/RvR is what you want, W.A.R will not be a disappointment.

If you want to decorate and have a garden, WAR will be a disappointment.

Atleast that is the way I see it.

D

spydermr2 · May 2006

Originally posted by dimaryp

I like the WoW "kiddies" much better that the elitest my MMORPG is better than yours. Atleast the WoW "kiddies" are not bashing everyone at every turn. Sorry, just a pet pev.

Any MMORPG that can make a game like what they put on paper will not be a disappointment. Mythic has some experience, and they seem to have a focus. Everything is about war. If PvP/RvR is what you want, W.A.R will not be a disappointment.

If you want to decorate and have a garden, WAR will be a disappointment.

Atleast that is the way I see it.

D

Wait. "WoW kiddies are not bashing everyone at every turn"????? In what universe? The WoW kiddies are unrelenting in their fix-minded, nothing-is-as-great-as-WoW-don't-you-dare-try-toi-argue-rationally approach to disavowing anything other than WoW.
Sorry, I nearly coughed up my soft drink when I read that line. Showed it to some pals here and they were doubled-up laughing in utter disbelief.

spydermr2 · May 2006

I'd suggest checking out Warhammeronline.com or www.gameamp.com/e3 for a full review of Warhammer Online and what they're offering. You'll find an amazing amount of detail in either place. For instance: the ability to, instead of killing a foe, if you're an Orc and they're a dwarf, you can literally cut off their beard and leave them "dishonored" thereby. As one example. They are going very far to capturing the "flavor" of the Warhammer universe and it sounds like they're actually doing it.

The fact that, besides the usual BS quests (go find 50 wolves and kill them; next level, go find 50 "BIG" wolves, etc.), they have what they're calling four different levels of quests. I can't do them justice -- check out the review on Gameamp for a good breakdown, or the website itself.

Suffice it to say, I was concerned about this game only before I did some reading on it -- now I have no concerns. If this was Turbine, on the other hand... then I'd be concerned.

dimaryp · May 2006

Originally posted by spydermr2

Originally posted by dimaryp

I like the WoW "kiddies" much better that the elitest my MMORPG is better than yours. Atleast the WoW "kiddies" are not bashing everyone at every turn. Sorry, just a pet pev.

Any MMORPG that can make a game like what they put on paper will not be a disappointment. Mythic has some experience, and they seem to have a focus. Everything is about war. If PvP/RvR is what you want, W.A.R will not be a disappointment.

If you want to decorate and have a garden, WAR will be a disappointment.

Atleast that is the way I see it.

D

Wait. "WoW kiddies are not bashing everyone at every turn"????? In what universe? The WoW kiddies are unrelenting in their fix-minded, nothing-is-as-great-as-WoW-don't-you-dare-try-toi-argue-rationally approach to disavowing anything other than WoW.
Sorry, I nearly coughed up my soft drink when I read that line. Showed it to some pals here and they were doubled-up laughing in utter disbelief.

Thank you for proving my point. I have never seen a game being bashed on the WoW forums, maybe I have not fequented them enough. Very rarely, do you see a post with more than twenty response, where someone doesn't bring up how WoW in a deragatory way. I'm tired of it. I have left forums because people constantly have to bash WoW. To me it doesn't matter if you like it or not, I just would rather discuss the game being promoted on the forum, then how much WoW or it's communitry sucks.

D

Ungrek · May 2006

I don't think a lot of little kids will be playing WAR and if they do, just kill em. There will always be noobs and people who dont know what theyre doing in every game, just a fact of life. I play warhammer and warhammer 40k, a stunty through and through, and i cant wait til WAR is released. I dont think it will be too much like WoW, but still similar. Check out the article on this site about it, it's really good, well that's all for now.

Shayde · May 2006

OOOHHH Love the dishonored bit witht he beard. Didn't read that.

Wonder if there's a defile option?

nero0102 · May 2006

WoW Kiddies won't be here.

Mythic will have already blocked every incarnation of chuck norris and leroy jenkins.

Want an example of WOW kiddies? Log in to WOW and say anything in general chat in the barrens.

Count how many times people say something about chuck norris, and count how many times people call you some derogatory term, add them together and there is your census information.

WoW gets bashed for very good reasons, if you can't handle it don't read anything where people are allowed to express opinions. In fact go to the official general forums where almost everything that isn't "we love blizzard" gets locked and deleted (unless its a weekend or late at night).

Blizzard and SOE official forums remind me of Baghdad Bob.

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