Ashes of Creation's Steven Sharif Clarifies a Few Points on Cosmetics and Monthly Costs | MMORPG.com

System · January 2021

Ashes of Creation's Steven Sharif Clarifies a Few Points on Cosmetics and Monthly Costs | MMORPG.com

In a lengthy and informative post by Creative Director of Ashes of Creation, Steven Sharif, a talk of cosmetic variations and Intrepid's outlook on monetization was in full focus.

Read the full story here

Slapshot1188 · January 2021

Been a TON of Ashes PR pieces lately.

So when's the next big "sale" hitting? My guess is soon.

koldmiser · January 2021

I was so excited for this game until I found out it has forced PVP. Gawd I hate forced PVP.

Slapshot1188 · January 2021

Rhoklaw said:

koldmiser said:

I was so excited for this game until I found out it has forced PVP. Gawd I hate forced PVP.

Normally, I would agree with you, but you are stuck in the mentality that comes with the territory of what most PvP games offer. This game isn't catering to the homicidal, psychopathic, kill anyone without any repercussions whatsoever mentality. Killing other players all nilly willy style is simply not going to be worth it. Instead, AoC offers other forms of player versus player engagement that include caravans, sieges and guild versus guild warfare.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say that in the past...

What is always overlooked is that many of these people do not CARE if it's "worth it" from a game standpoint. When discussing PvP it is always best top assume the worst behaviors will surface. Maybe these guys will find the secret sauce, but we hear the EXACT same thing from every game. Well, except for Crowfall which is just STFU and Git Gud... But other than that they ALL claim to have some mechanism which will discourage murder hobos. Haven't seen it delivered yet.

Kyleran · January 2021

Torval said:

"There will be legendary cosmetics that are ONLY achievable in game and players can know won’t be offered in some cosmetic shop in the future undermining their accomplishment."

This sounds great at first glance, but isn't really any different than most any other cosmetically driven cash shop game. Fallout 76, for example, has cosmetic variants, and rewards only available in the game. The problem isn't that there are cosmeti
L
cs only available in the game, it is that there are variants only available in the cash shop. It is that there ends up being a heavy focus on providing excellent and abundant options in the cash shop.

Sure, there will be legendary cosmetics which players might want to wear to show off their achievements, but will they look as good as the cash shop cosmetics, probably not.

Wizardry · January 2021

They offer incentives for pvp all they want,it is still aiming at pvp of which a lot of players couldn't care less about.I am on the side of the fence that i want a plausible world and not some zones setup for pvp or designed for something else.

I don't even care for this mayor of tinsel town idea,i want to see a real town like operation,maybe i buy a plot from a NPC that runs the territory.I want to do as i please with that plot.
I want a life like economy,maybe i train horses to sell or farm and sell vegetables or other.Maybe i am a crafter and you pay taxes for your land.

PVP to me is a shallow direction,idc how many ways you slice it is still pvp which involves ONE IDEA,attacking other players.
Maybe i want a plot near a lake to fish,maybe i can build my own man made pond/steam/lake etc etc.

I NEVER want to game under another gamers rule,i would want a NPC rule only.
Bottom line is there is just too much wrong with the design for a RPG,this is more like a BR with added features.

Sushibarf · January 2021

Damn you people are never happy and complain about literally everything.

ElonMusk · January 2021

Oh it's Ashes alright.

Game has smelled like the mmorpg version of Star Citizen. Selling stuff to people without actually releasing the game.

I predict Dead On Arrival, if it ever arrives.

Searias · January 2021

I like the p2p monetization it gives me incentive to play the game. Lol, plus you could always buy a lifetime subscription (if it is still available) and not worry about p2p pretend it is b2p

.

Morgenes83 · January 2021

Slapshot1188 said:

Rhoklaw said:

koldmiser said:

I was so excited for this game until I found out it has forced PVP. Gawd I hate forced PVP.

Normally, I would agree with you, but you are stuck in the mentality that comes with the territory of what most PvP games offer. This game isn't catering to the homicidal, psychopathic, kill anyone without any repercussions whatsoever mentality. Killing other players all nilly willy style is simply not going to be worth it. Instead, AoC offers other forms of player versus player engagement that include caravans, sieges and guild versus guild warfare.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say that in the past...

What is always overlooked is that many of these people do not CARE if it's "worth it" from a game standpoint. When discussing PvP it is always best top assume the worst behaviors will surface. Maybe these guys will find the secret sauce, but we hear the EXACT same thing from every game. Well, except for Crowfall which is just STFU and Git Gud... But other than that they ALL claim to have some mechanism which will discourage murder hobos. Haven't seen it delivered yet.

Exactly this.
Having no incentive to gank is not going to stop them.
It is harsh penalties and a judge system which is needed to assure that people only pk with a reason (e.g. getting griefed, kill stealing, insults...) Only game I saw trying this is ArcheAge

@topic
Cosmetics in shops is always leading to complaints.
Personally I don't care.
But others are complaining if
1. There are cool looking skins only available in the shop and they have to spend money on it.
2. There are skins in the shop which are also hard to earn in-game, so people don't know if earned through playing or just paid for it.

So no matter how you are doing it it will be wrong.
It's a lose-lose situation.

There is of course the possibility to make the skins in the shop not being cool looking, or being easy obtainable in game, but both will not lead to sales, so let's ignore this one.

[Deleted User] · January 2021

The user and all related content has been deleted.

foppotee · January 2021

Pardon my ignorance, but will there be some sort of stipend with the monthly subscription?

I don't mind a "cosmetics cash-shop" & like the idea that some of the earnable cosmetics won't be in the "cosmetics cash-shop".

While I might initially be hesitant to revert to a subscription-only game as long as it offers an enjoyable value I think I could come back around.

Scot · January 2021

There is nothing wrong with selling cosmetics in a MMORPG, I would love to see a MMORPG purely funded from cosmetics like Fortnite is. But they do need to be bind to account so as to stop a skin economy developing. Also they must be truly cosmetic not outfits with small bonuses for crafting or the like.

It baffles me that players even think you should be able to grind outfits. Sub + cosmetic cash shop is fine by me.

Haki88 · January 2021

Rhoklaw said:

People are being awfully ignorant about the PvP in this game. If you don't like PvP such as what Mortal Online 2 is presenting, I'm 100% in agreement with you. However, the PvP in AoC is not even close to the same ballpark.

Example... someone decides to kill a lowbie. Sure, it's a plausible scenario, but that lowbie loses nothing. As for the murderer, he is now marked. What happens if he does that a few more times? Well, eventually bounties can be placed on him. This gives other players a reason to take him out. The murderer still gets nothing in return if he manages to kill them. See how that works? There is literally nothing, no incentive other than to make your own life extremely miserable by being a rando murdering asshat. Not to mention, someone does it enough, they will start dropping gear. Good luck killing anyone without gear after that. What if he has more gear in the bank? Good luck getting that gear as you are now KOS to town guards. So yeah, try researching the game a little bit before you begin your doomsayer speech.

So I thought of another scenario. What if this person has multiple accounts or friends to bring him more gear outside of town. I don't know how the trading in this game works, but here's the good news. The game is still in development, so maybe a suggestion could be made that trading with a murderer now flags you as a criminal too. As much as these types of players like to circumvent mechanics, there's just as many ways to counteract it.

Long time ago someone on reddit said, if you want to kill someone just make alt or if you dont care about money buy another account or even use your main because of stats. Sure, items will be dropped if someone kills you, but thing is, killing anyone wont be problem, but you will be marked. Solution? Get friend to kill you, pick up item and return it to you. Very simple. There are many examples like this and they cant change it because if they change one thing, they need to change another like trading, then set limits that your guild members, alliance members and friends you have on your friends list cant kill you. And last, you cant change it because some people bought game just because there are some features like that one.

mklinic · January 2021

Rhoklaw said:

Yep. except unlike Star Citizen, it isn't crowdfunded, so do some more research next time because that usually helps to validate your arguement.

It's not? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios

"19,576 backers pledged $3,271,809 to help bring this project to life."

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but...isn't that crowdfunding?

Scot · January 2021

mklinic said:

Rhoklaw said:

Yep. except unlike Star Citizen, it isn't crowdfunded, so do some more research next time because that usually helps to validate your arguement.

It's not? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios

"19,576 backers pledged $3,271,809 to help bring this project to life."

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but...isn't that crowdfunding?

The amount raised from investors dwarfs that though so it both is and is not a CF product.

mklinic · January 2021

This is a quote from their kickstarter page...

"We’ve got private backing that will allow us to produce a core viable product. What Kickstarter will allow us to do is expand our scope and give our team flexibility and room to breathe. To really give us the opportunity to create *exactly* what we want. Crowdfunding also allows us to connect directly with the players most invested in our success. We need your voices to help grow this community, and to keep us accountable to those who matter most, the players. Come help us bring MMOs into the future, and make the game I know all of us want to play. From the ashes, MMOs will rise again!"

So no, this is not your traditional crowdfunded approach to game design. Steven is a multimillionaire and a huge fan of MMOs. This is a passion project and while they do have a kickstarter and pledges, the game is pretty much privately funded. Most kickstarter projects have nothing to start with. AoC does not fall under the same category as 99% of other crowdfunded MMOs.

I get what you're saying, but; They still took [additional] funding....from a crowd.

I mean, we've seen other crowd funding efforts that have purported to have invested plenty of their own money and just need a little extra to "to create exactly what [they] want."

Maybe I'm just hung up on the semantics, but in my eyes; They took $3 mil plus from 19k+ people. That is crowdfunding whether it was absolutely required to see their vision though or just funding polish/additional features...It's still funding some part of the project.

If we say this is not crowdfunding then any number of other projects aren't crowdfunding either even though they've received the benefits of the crowdfunding process.

Again, I get your point of view on this and it's likely a bit of a diversion from the original topic so thanks for taking the moment to clarify your point even if I see it a bit differently.

Regarding the original topic; I just know that, no matter what, someone will be unhappy with whatever monetization is implemented.

Scot · January 2021

mklinic said:

This is a quote from their kickstarter page...

"We’ve got private backing that will allow us to produce a core viable product. What Kickstarter will allow us to do is expand our scope and give our team flexibility and room to breathe. To really give us the opportunity to create *exactly* what we want. Crowdfunding also allows us to connect directly with the players most invested in our success. We need your voices to help grow this community, and to keep us accountable to those who matter most, the players. Come help us bring MMOs into the future, and make the game I know all of us want to play. From the ashes, MMOs will rise again!"

So no, this is not your traditional crowdfunded approach to game design. Steven is a multimillionaire and a huge fan of MMOs. This is a passion project and while they do have a kickstarter and pledges, the game is pretty much privately funded. Most kickstarter projects have nothing to start with. AoC does not fall under the same category as 99% of other crowdfunded MMOs.

I get what you're saying, but; They still took [additional] funding....from a crowd.

I mean, we've seen other crowd funding efforts that have purported to have invested plenty of their own money and just need a little extra to "to create exactly what [they] want."

Maybe I'm just hung up on the semantics, but in my eyes; They took $3 mil plus from 19k+ people. That is crowdfunding whether it was absolutely required to see their vision though or just funding polish/additional features...It's still funding some part of the project.

If we say this is not crowdfunding then any number of other projects aren't crowdfunding either even though they've received the benefits of the crowdfunding process.

Again, I get your point of view on this and it's likely a bit of a diversion from the original topic so thanks for taking the moment to clarify your point even if I see it a bit differently.

Regarding the original topic; I just know that, no matter what, someone will be unhappy with whatever monetization is implemented.

I just find it astonishing that we now have P2W in nearly every aspect of gaming, for me XP potions or buying a crafting bonus in a PvE game is P2W. But people are getting concerned about cosmetics, priorities turned on their head. I will say though that once you have a cash shop they only ever get dodgier over time so that is a concern.

koldmiser · January 2021

Slapshot1188 said:

Rhoklaw said:

koldmiser said:

I was so excited for this game until I found out it has forced PVP. Gawd I hate forced PVP.

Normally, I would agree with you, but you are stuck in the mentality that comes with the territory of what most PvP games offer. This game isn't catering to the homicidal, psychopathic, kill anyone without any repercussions whatsoever mentality. Killing other players all nilly willy style is simply not going to be worth it. Instead, AoC offers other forms of player versus player engagement that include caravans, sieges and guild versus guild warfare.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say that in the past...

What is always overlooked is that many of these people do not CARE if it's "worth it" from a game standpoint. When discussing PvP it is always best top assume the worst behaviors will surface. Maybe these guys will find the secret sauce, but we hear the EXACT same thing from every game. Well, except for Crowfall which is just STFU and Git Gud... But other than that they ALL claim to have some mechanism which will discourage murder hobos. Haven't seen it delivered yet.

Exactly! The people who want to run around in little "gank squads" making life miserable to other players don't care about rep systems. Open world PVP brings out the worst type of players.

Wizardry · January 2021

I am not saying he is going to play the game but i have one name to prove a point >>.FORSEN.

When he joined Atlas he had a bunch of merry hooligans that had NO intention of sticking around the game,they just wanted to wreak havoc on everyone else for a couple months then move on.
There are a lot of people like that and even if there wasn't what is a typical pve player going to get out of this game?You want pve players to go join some mayors town and build it up for them...pffft no thanks.

My point is that Steven has not seen the way bigger picture of how it all actually plays out,what is there to entice a player long term that is good for themselves?

Wizardry · January 2021

RPG's are completely dead imo and it because they need to take that next step and move in a direction that gives each individual their own sense of accomplishment and a living interactive world to support that.

What Steven is building here is a nice starting point but it is not a full complete game world.All he really has here is same old with one new gimmick.MMORPG's need a LOT more than one new gimmick to be viable in 2021 and moving forward.

Haki88 · January 2021

Some companies took non p2w too far.

In many games you can see it is not p2w because you can get that same item ingame. Which is great?!

In other hand what kind of non p2w is that if guy spend 5000$ on some items and you as player who didnt spend nothing on cash shop get these same items worth 5000$ in....lets be realistic....5 years of gameplay (depends on game)

I said many times, just reading every feature they gonna add and how it gonna behave it is time consuming even for mmorpg game. You need to be hard core gamer X 9000 (maybe over 9000!).

Most of features are very time consuming, you can see for example trading, you cant go to beach summon ship and sail to other continent, or auction where you buy item but you dont get it, you need to run/ride to town where that item was listed and pick it up, then return where you left or even fly mounts (10-12? per server) just take comparison of some game and time it, how much takes guy to ride to other town (and maybe not even next to town where you are) and guy who have flying mount to pick that item up and return where he left or boss! If you guild have territory where boss is then it is great, if not, good luck spending time going to that place and what happens if players from other continent wants to kill boss? No teleports except between 2 science metropolises which can take weeks or even months to build it then it is different story, ride to science metropolis, teleport, ride to boss area. Have flying mount? Just fly..

It is going to be crazy.

McSleaz · January 2021

Selling limited time cash shop items during an Alpha makes Stephen just as greasy as Chris Roberts.
But Steven got rich off a pyramid scheme so this kind of activity shouldn't surprise anyone.

McSleaz · January 2021

Scot said:

mklinic said:

Rhoklaw said:

Yep. except unlike Star Citizen, it isn't crowdfunded, so do some more research next time because that usually helps to validate your arguement.

It's not? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios

"19,576 backers pledged $3,271,809 to help bring this project to life."

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but...isn't that crowdfunding?

The amount raised from investors dwarfs that though so it both is and is not a CF product.

He ran a kick starter and took money from the public (I have the receipt to prove it). That is crowd funding no matter how any fanboi wants to white-wash it.

sk8chalif · January 2021

I would have said this is bad if The game had a Box Cost but since we only pay for a subs, A Cosmetic shop is not that bad. GW2 did it pretty good but, went a lil bit overboard a bit later but if they do it right i have no problem.

Slapshot1188 · January 2021

Rhoklaw said:

mklinic said:

Rhoklaw said:

Yep. except unlike Star Citizen, it isn't crowdfunded, so do some more research next time because that usually helps to validate your arguement.

It's not? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios

"19,576 backers pledged $3,271,809 to help bring this project to life."

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but...isn't that crowdfunding?

This is a quote from their kickstarter page...

"We’ve got private backing that will allow us to produce a core viable product. What Kickstarter will allow us to do is expand our scope and give our team flexibility and room to breathe. To really give us the opportunity to create *exactly* what we want. Crowdfunding also allows us to connect directly with the players most invested in our success. We need your voices to help grow this community, and to keep us accountable to those who matter most, the players. Come help us bring MMOs into the future, and make the game I know all of us want to play. From the ashes, MMOs will rise again!"

So no, this is not your traditional crowdfunded approach to game design. Steven is a multimillionaire and a huge fan of MMOs. This is a passion project and while they do have a kickstarter and pledges, the game is pretty much privately funded. Most kickstarter projects have nothing to start with. AoC does not fall under the same category as 99% of other crowdfunded MMOs.

Both Crowfall and Camelot Unchained also raised more money privately than from Crowdfunding. CU in particular has a very small slice of total funding as Crowdfunding. But its like being pregnant, you either are or are not. They Are. Not to mention the fact that they (AoC) have raised millions more through Crowdfunding since the Kickstarter.

I'd love to see an actual financial that showed money raised, money invested by Stephen, and the expenditures to date. I think you might be surprised.

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